Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 PM - Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** (Bert Conoly)
2. 04:57 PM - Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** (DJ Vegh)
3. 05:03 PM - Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** (TomTravis@aol.com)
4. 05:24 PM - Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** (Galen Hutcheson)
5. 08:03 PM - Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** (Catdesign)
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** |
Well. I'm glad some of you are having good experiences with the FAA. I've just
found out that I have to make a 4 hour (one way) trip to Tampa to the Tampa
FSDO to be "interviewed" so they can "grant" me a repairman certificate - on an
airplane I spent 10 years building. Now a trip across town or even down the
road may not be unreasonable, but a 600 mile round trip is an unreasonable hardship
in my book.
Now don't forget that THEIR (FAA) designee ( DAR) that THEY agree to allow to act
on THEIR behalf came to MY hangar and spent a great deal of time establishing
that I 1) Built my plane, 2) I Have some acceptable level of ability - at
least enough to BUILD an airplane that he's determined is airworthy 3) I Have
proven that I can read, interpret and apply regulations and requirements, 4)
I am who I say I am and E) I have jumped through every imaginable hoop required
by the FAA so far . Now, also don't lose the fact that I payed a fairly
substantial fee to THEIR Designee to provide such assistance. I figure counting
travel time , inspection time, and paper work time comes out to about $100
per hour.
Now if I had known my DAR could sign off on my Special Airworthiness Certificate
but couldn't sign off on my Repairman's Certificate, I'd have gotten in line
and waited on an FAA A/W inspector to do it. Assuming they could or would.
But now I payed big dollars for a partial service. Typical government innefficiency.
With THEIR (FAA's) constant whining about overstaffing, underbudgeting, and "heavy"
workload, I felt paying for said services would insure a timely, stream-lined
turnkey certification - including issuance of the repairman certificate.
I assumed it was worth it . Hmmm. Moral to this story is NEVER assume anything
when dealing with the FAA or any other agency for that matter.
Now I know for a fact (trust me, I am close to three other recent experimental
inspections) that some FSDOs are NOT requiring applicants to travel (hundreds
of miles) to be "interviewed". They are accepting a letter of reference from
the DAR along with the application and support information submitted by the applicant.
Evidently some FSDOs require a little interview. Now my dilemna is
how to proceed from here.
Looks like I have three options:
1) Take a day off from my work and go down there and grovel to them so they can
"grant" me the right to work on my own damn plane - remember... the one THAT
I BUILT? - Oh yeah did I mention that FAA is not open on weekends or holidays
either - but thats ok because you have to "schedule an appointment" anyway
so it's not likely I'll miss them. This doesn't sound to me like the Feds are,
although funded by fees and taxes collected from the public,, making much
effort to be "user friendly".
2) Kick and scream - write a few letters , maybe call a FAA regional head honcho?
How about a critical letter to a few well placed aviation mags? Boy, this
one should really insure my application is turned down.
or
3) Simply forget the whole thing. I built it - its mine, and I maybe just
work on it myself - repairman's Certificate or not. Never deal with that bunch
again. Oh, but then I'd be in violation of the FAR' s wouldn't I..
By the way, it did pass inspection Sunday but high winds prohibited a first flight.
I'll fly it in a few days. So I can build it and fly it, I just can't work
on it.......
Right now I'm just p***** that I have to go through all this stuff for a bunch
of bureaus. .
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
Good for you, Dick! I just got my permanent Repairmans Certificate in the mail
yesterday. Gotta admit, after having a forced landing on a US highway 2 weeks
ago, I was a bit fearful to open an envelope from the FAA. The FSDO has already
closed out my "incident" though and said there will be no repercussions.
After all the horror stories one hears about the FAA I was very pleasantly
surprised by how nice and helpful they were. This was the Greensboro FSDO that
I was dealing with (they handle all the USAir stuff out of Charlotte).
Jack Phillips
Finally starting to repair NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
I just returned from my FAA interview which went just fine. After the various
comments on the list here which I very much appreciate, I realize there are
big differences around the country in how inspectors handle many of their duties.
One big reason for this might be the type of FAA office we deal with. The
office that I went to for this certificate is located at the Minneapolis airport
which is home base for Northwest Airlines. There was a steady stream of
people coming in for airline related ratings. Technicians in avionics shops,
propeller repairs or other specialty fields who arent an A&P need to be an Aircraft
Repairman. Things in the larger FAA offices just need to be more formal.
My airworthieness inspection was by the Aircraft Manufacturing office and this
was by Flight Standards. I suspect anyone going to Atlanta, Dallas or other
airline bases will run into the same.
The interview was about 15 minutes while I filled out a second copy of the application
and he went thru my builders log and operations manual and asked a few
questioins about wing construction and dihedrial. He was impressed with my
Harley wheels and asked about what areas I had help with. I got the impression
that he just wanted to be sure that I didn't just buy a completed project and
claim to have built it.
It was a pleasant experience, I didn't have to write a check and I've got my
certificate so I'm happy.
Dick N.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** |
what a big pot of shit. I'd be inclined to go with option 3 for the time being.
to hell with them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR**
Well. I'm glad some of you are having good experiences with the FAA. I've just
found out that I have to make a 4 hour (one way) trip to Tampa to the Tampa
FSDO to be "interviewed" so they can "grant" me a repairman certificate - on
an airplane I spent 10 years building. Now a trip across town or even down the
road may not be unreasonable, but a 600 mile round trip is an unreasonable
hardship in my book.
Now don't forget that THEIR (FAA) designee ( DAR) that THEY agree to allow to
act on THEIR behalf came to MY hangar and spent a great deal of time establishing
that I 1) Built my plane, 2) I Have some acceptable level of ability -
at least enough to BUILD an airplane that he's determined is airworthy 3) I Have
proven that I can read, interpret and apply regulations and requirements,
4) I am who I say I am and E) I have jumped through every imaginable hoop required
by the FAA so far . Now, also don't lose the fact that I payed a fairly
substantial fee to THEIR Designee to provide such assistance. I figure counting
travel time , inspection time, and paper work time comes out to about $100
per hour.
Now if I had known my DAR could sign off on my Special Airworthiness Certificate
but couldn't sign off on my Repairman's Certificate, I'd have gotten in line
and waited on an FAA A/W inspector to do it. Assuming they could or would.
But now I payed big dollars for a partial service. Typical government innefficiency.
With THEIR (FAA's) constant whining about overstaffing, underbudgeting, and
"heavy" workload, I felt paying for said services would insure a timely, stream-lined
turnkey certification - including issuance of the repairman certificate.
I assumed it was worth it . Hmmm. Moral to this story is NEVER assume anything
when dealing with the FAA or any other agency for that matter.
Now I know for a fact (trust me, I am close to three other recent experimental
inspections) that some FSDOs are NOT requiring applicants to travel (hundreds
of miles) to be "interviewed". They are accepting a letter of reference from
the DAR along with the application and support information submitted by the
applicant. Evidently some FSDOs require a little interview. Now my dilemna
is how to proceed from here.
Looks like I have three options:
1) Take a day off from my work and go down there and grovel to them so they
can "grant" me the right to work on my own damn plane - remember... the one
THAT I BUILT? - Oh yeah did I mention that FAA is not open on weekends or holidays
either - but thats ok because you have to "schedule an appointment" anyway
so it's not likely I'll miss them. This doesn't sound to me like the Feds
are, although funded by fees and taxes collected from the public,, making much
effort to be "user friendly".
2) Kick and scream - write a few letters , maybe call a FAA regional head
honcho? How about a critical letter to a few well placed aviation mags? Boy,
this one should really insure my application is turned down.
or
3) Simply forget the whole thing. I built it - its mine, and I maybe just
work on it myself - repairman's Certificate or not. Never deal with that bunch
again. Oh, but then I'd be in violation of the FAR' s wouldn't I..
By the way, it did pass inspection Sunday but high winds prohibited a first flight.
I'll fly it in a few days. So I can build it and fly it, I just can't
work on it.......
Right now I'm just p***** that I have to go through all this stuff for a bunch
of bureaus. .
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
Good for you, Dick! I just got my permanent Repairmans Certificate in the
mail yesterday. Gotta admit, after having a forced landing on a US highway 2
weeks ago, I was a bit fearful to open an envelope from the FAA. The FSDO has
already closed out my "incident" though and said there will be no repercussions.
After all the horror stories one hears about the FAA I was very pleasantly
surprised by how nice and helpful they were. This was the Greensboro FSDO that
I was dealing with (they handle all the USAir stuff out of Charlotte).
Jack Phillips
Finally starting to repair NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
I just returned from my FAA interview which went just fine. After the various
comments on the list here which I very much appreciate, I realize there are
big differences around the country in how inspectors handle many of their duties.
One big reason for this might be the type of FAA office we deal with.
The office that I went to for this certificate is located at the Minneapolis airport
which is home base for Northwest Airlines. There was a steady stream of
people coming in for airline related ratings. Technicians in avionics shops,
propeller repairs or other specialty fields who arent an A&P need to be an Aircraft
Repairman. Things in the larger FAA offices just need to be more formal.
My airworthieness inspection was by the Aircraft Manufacturing office and
this was by Flight Standards. I suspect anyone going to Atlanta, Dallas or other
airline bases will run into the same.
The interview was about 15 minutes while I filled out a second copy of the
application and he went thru my builders log and operations manual and asked a
few questioins about wing construction and dihedrial. He was impressed with
my Harley wheels and asked about what areas I had help with. I got the impression
that he just wanted to be sure that I didn't just buy a completed project
and claim to have built it.
It was a pleasant experience, I didn't have to write a check and I've got my
certificate so I'm happy.
Dick N.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** |
Bert,
There's a hotline you can call to report bad service like that from the FAA.
Maybe somebody on the board knows what it is. You don't have to put up with
that sort of treatment.
Tom Travis
Message 4
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=OHPanm7l/a79ziedKpLP2g/u9fTIJNAPBE25/lG0kJkDJEFO9oQ9JrCiIFYTFoptVRFLNbIiwJPUikZQcTDfHYUGXmCMv+JtwSBAZvU8wjQupgk5WToLs8tgYct9hk89tR7TkMOShb0FWYSvOPTuX8HYdYNAIKjVa/U3hmUUeik=
;
Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Bert, sounds like you are getting the royal shaft and
government run-a-round. They probably turned your
request over to some wet-behind-the-ears newbie who is
probably right out of A&P school and who wants to
flaunt his "authority" around like some kind of
peacock. I would go with option 3 or I would write to
some congressmen and senators. That kind of clout
usually gets more response. Another way to handle
this situation is to make good friend with an A&P, IA
and work out a deal with him. You do the inspections
and he signs off on them. Of course, you want to be
generous and you want to allow him to get to know you
and your work and let him look over your work if he
wants to, but that is one way to get around having to
pay for expensive annuals. If they give me that kind
of run-around, I'll get pissed too. Just my 2 cents
worth.
Doc
>
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR** |
Hey Bert, I sure wish I had your problems.......
Still building very slowly
in Sacramento
Chris Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Conoly
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman - ahhhh... more FAA CR**
Well. I'm glad some of you are having good experiences with the FAA. I've just
found out that I have to make a 4 hour (one way) trip to Tampa to the Tampa
FSDO to be "interviewed" so they can "grant" me a repairman certificate - on
an airplane I spent 10 years building. Now a trip across town or even down the
road may not be unreasonable, but a 600 mile round trip is an unreasonable
hardship in my book.
Now don't forget that THEIR (FAA) designee ( DAR) that THEY agree to allow to
act on THEIR behalf came to MY hangar and spent a great deal of time establishing
that I 1) Built my plane, 2) I Have some acceptable level of ability -
at least enough to BUILD an airplane that he's determined is airworthy 3) I Have
proven that I can read, interpret and apply regulations and requirements,
4) I am who I say I am and E) I have jumped through every imaginable hoop required
by the FAA so far . Now, also don't lose the fact that I payed a fairly
substantial fee to THEIR Designee to provide such assistance. I figure counting
travel time , inspection time, and paper work time comes out to about $100
per hour.
Now if I had known my DAR could sign off on my Special Airworthiness Certificate
but couldn't sign off on my Repairman's Certificate, I'd have gotten in line
and waited on an FAA A/W inspector to do it. Assuming they could or would.
But now I payed big dollars for a partial service. Typical government innefficiency.
With THEIR (FAA's) constant whining about overstaffing, underbudgeting, and
"heavy" workload, I felt paying for said services would insure a timely, stream-lined
turnkey certification - including issuance of the repairman certificate.
I assumed it was worth it . Hmmm. Moral to this story is NEVER assume anything
when dealing with the FAA or any other agency for that matter.
Now I know for a fact (trust me, I am close to three other recent experimental
inspections) that some FSDOs are NOT requiring applicants to travel (hundreds
of miles) to be "interviewed". They are accepting a letter of reference from
the DAR along with the application and support information submitted by the
applicant. Evidently some FSDOs require a little interview. Now my dilemna
is how to proceed from here.
Looks like I have three options:
1) Take a day off from my work and go down there and grovel to them so they
can "grant" me the right to work on my own damn plane - remember... the one
THAT I BUILT? - Oh yeah did I mention that FAA is not open on weekends or holidays
either - but thats ok because you have to "schedule an appointment" anyway
so it's not likely I'll miss them. This doesn't sound to me like the Feds
are, although funded by fees and taxes collected from the public,, making much
effort to be "user friendly".
2) Kick and scream - write a few letters , maybe call a FAA regional head
honcho? How about a critical letter to a few well placed aviation mags? Boy,
this one should really insure my application is turned down.
or
3) Simply forget the whole thing. I built it - its mine, and I maybe just
work on it myself - repairman's Certificate or not. Never deal with that bunch
again. Oh, but then I'd be in violation of the FAR' s wouldn't I..
By the way, it did pass inspection Sunday but high winds prohibited a first flight.
I'll fly it in a few days. So I can build it and fly it, I just can't
work on it.......
Right now I'm just p***** that I have to go through all this stuff for a bunch
of bureaus. .
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
Good for you, Dick! I just got my permanent Repairmans Certificate in the
mail yesterday. Gotta admit, after having a forced landing on a US highway 2
weeks ago, I was a bit fearful to open an envelope from the FAA. The FSDO has
already closed out my "incident" though and said there will be no repercussions.
After all the horror stories one hears about the FAA I was very pleasantly
surprised by how nice and helpful they were. This was the Greensboro FSDO that
I was dealing with (they handle all the USAir stuff out of Charlotte).
Jack Phillips
Finally starting to repair NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
I just returned from my FAA interview which went just fine. After the various
comments on the list here which I very much appreciate, I realize there are
big differences around the country in how inspectors handle many of their duties.
One big reason for this might be the type of FAA office we deal with.
The office that I went to for this certificate is located at the Minneapolis airport
which is home base for Northwest Airlines. There was a steady stream of
people coming in for airline related ratings. Technicians in avionics shops,
propeller repairs or other specialty fields who arent an A&P need to be an Aircraft
Repairman. Things in the larger FAA offices just need to be more formal.
My airworthieness inspection was by the Aircraft Manufacturing office and
this was by Flight Standards. I suspect anyone going to Atlanta, Dallas or other
airline bases will run into the same.
The interview was about 15 minutes while I filled out a second copy of the
application and he went thru my builders log and operations manual and asked a
few questioins about wing construction and dihedrial. He was impressed with
my Harley wheels and asked about what areas I had help with. I got the impression
that he just wanted to be sure that I didn't just buy a completed project
and claim to have built it.
It was a pleasant experience, I didn't have to write a check and I've got my
certificate so I'm happy.
Dick N.
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