---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/28/04: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:31 AM - Re: Don't Scare Me Like That (Rick Holland) 2. 08:21 AM - Re: Don't Scare Me Like That (Christopher Friel) 3. 10:22 AM - Max crossind in a GN-1... (Steve Ruse) 4. 03:35 PM - Re: back to the piet finally (malcolm Zirges) 5. 04:04 PM - Re: back to the piet finally (Galen Hutcheson) 6. 04:18 PM - Re: Max crossind in a GN-1... (Galen Hutcheson) 7. 06:13 PM - piet ribs - material specs (tmbrant1@netzero.net) 8. 07:50 PM - Re: back to the piet finally (malcolm Zirges) 9. 09:07 PM - Re: back to the piet finally (Galen Hutcheson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:49 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don't Scare Me Like That Tom The AS wood kit doesn't include capstrip. I attached the parts list for the wood kit AS sent me. Many people just use cedar or douglas fir for capstrip anyhow and save some money. Rick H On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:45:34 -0600, Tom Stinemetze wrote: > > > > Fellow builders. I assume that the majority of you "Piet-Nuts" out there > have purchased at least some of your materials from Aircraft Spruce and > Specialty Co. (ASS) =E2=80=93 abbreviation used with no derogatory intent > > > > My two sons got together and purchased a Christmas present for me that I > still can't believe. It was the complete spruce kit from ASS and, believe > me, I was bowled over. I received the two big packages about three days > before Christmas and really didn't have time to look through the wood until > last night. I got in there looking for the =C2=BC" x =C2=BD" cap strip stock so I > could start making ribs. I did find some cap strip material in the package, > about enough to build two ribs. So, I got on the phone to find out if there > was a problem. > > > > The nice young lady at ASS informed me that cap strip material was not part > of the package. Why not? Because the material that is shipped varies > depending on the engine you intend to use. Oh and by the way it sells for > $8/ft =E2=80=93 can I transfer you to sales? Now I can understand that the fuselage > stringers might vary in length depending on the engine used but the plans > don't say anything about that being the case with cap strips. In fact, the > only wing options I have come across are: 1-piece or 3-piece. Also, $8/ft > seemed a LITTLE high. > > > > Later, after I calmed down a bit, I checked out the ASS web site and > discovered that cap strips of this size sell for $ 0.32/ft. (a difference > of approximately $6,500 vs $150 in materials cost). Now I hate to say bad > things about folks I do not know but this seems a little over the top. > > > > So, I have two questions for you listers out there: > > 1) Did your ASS spruce kit include the cap strip material? > > 2) Have you experienced this level of misinformation when dealing with > ASS? > > > > If the error is mine, please point it out to me. (I wonder what is really > missing from my kit that will cost me $8/ft.) > > > > 'Ol Tom > > McPherson, Kansas > > ____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:04 AM PST US pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Don't Scare Me Like That From: "Christopher Friel" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christopher Friel" > So, I have two questions for you listers out there: > 1) Did your ASS spruce kit include the cap strip material? > 2) Have you experienced this level of misinformation when dealing > with ASS? ASS specifies that <65hp uses 1/4 x 1/4 cap strips and >65hp uses 1/4 x 1/2. I bought my wood from ASS. The only bad experiences that I have had building my piet was dealing with customer services. Needless to say, I did not get cap strips. Also, you will need to pick up wood for the leading and trailing edges. The wood that i did recieve was top notch but I don't feel that ASS deserves too much credit; after all, I payed a bundle for it; I expected nothing less. While it would be contrary to the holiday spirit to bellyache much more about it, you could still check the archives and you will find plenty of gripes about ASS. The bright side is that this list is full of resources including alternate sources of supply. I got my cap strips from Wicks and my plywood from Noah's marine and Boulter plywood. A very pleasant and more affordable experience. Good luck on your project. Chris Friel Davis, CA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:00 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Pietenpol-List: Max crossind in a GN-1... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse What type of crosswind will generally keep you guys on the ground, assuming you will be landing on concrete? I'm going to be flying a GN-1 before long, and would like to get an idea what some other people are doing. Also, how much more crosswind will you tolerate when landing on grass? The plane I'll be flying has a tailwheel, not a skid. What kind of difference will a skid make on concrete? Thanks for the help! Steve Ruse Dallas, TX ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:41 PM PST US From: "malcolm Zirges" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back to the piet finally Hello again. I do have some Port Orford Cedar 2X6's that I traded a load of logs for 20 years ago. I've been hoarding it because I also have spruce trees so just cut my own spruce for larger pieces (fuselage etc.). I should use the cedar but it is almost too pretty to cut. Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back to the piet finally Depending on where you are in Oregon you should be checking out Port Orford cedar. Find a wooden boat builder in your area. Not only is it stronger in all respects than Sitka but lighter too. Western hemlock is excellent and the same strength as spruce. Averages slightly lighter but some pieces can be heavier. My entire plane so far, except the doug fir landing gear, is hemlock. Red pine is significantly both stronger and heavier but eastern white pine is significantly weaker and lighter. Clif, varnishing landing gear. Just a question on your comment that pine would be stronger than fir. Here in Oregon our main fir is Douglas Fir, and our main pine is Ponderosa--and Douglas Fir is definitely stronger than Ponderosa Pine. Which species of pine and fir are available in your area? I used Western Hemlock for my ribs and it was good stuff to work with. Mac in Oregon ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:09 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=e6/gHJXk/ZSWIAvQU5Ire1yCqr+Bscfc/KtM99HmDocXLQ45m1zfSUyKz+RDEET6rBxNqCKvNDr1AHlk8LQpObt5zT7XmCnMLkNADSs5+HMeuwyNtXYarMVBDkfhFyP8wQfr0RH2OqkyufZiZapOzW1EfuusYhTI79NS0JxYS6U= ; From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back to the piet finally --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Hi Mac, Are you a logger? That is what my son and I are doing right now. Wish I had some nice spruce to cut. Our logs are all oaks and hickory, of which neither is very good for building an airplane with, it might be strong, but it would fly like a lead sled. :) Doc > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:08 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ZncLwI5Q8Okd4Vsmpea8WGpe+YPXip5JBDNUV8LjCLQWTB/4kYymljiVXHPhqpmvTtFb7/Nd5fSL/twhhVTH6mqg2VqoikXuvRf+B+uHY4nepBN0cV+3j77y/rCBd1h4aSFk92W6mkBFuOndELFOA62xaEF8m14sy3rCiIcv1GA= ; From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Max crossind in a GN-1... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Steve, a tail skid on concrete is a ground-loop just waiting to happen. Grass is always more forgiving (especially in tailwheels) than hard surfaced runways. I have found it much easier to land a tailwheel in a cross-wind by doing a wheel landing rather than a full stall landing. By doing so, you can better keep the ailerons turned into the wind and land on the up-wind wheel first. Believe me, if you have a choice of whether to land on a hard surface vs. grass in a cross-wind, always select the grass. This works for all tail-wheel airplanes I've flown (and that is well over thiry or so). The tail skid works very well on grass as it works like a tiller and holds the plane straight on landing. But on a hard surface runway, the skid will not bite into the surface and will become a real liability when the plane begins to yaw and you don't have enough rudder to hold her. If you haven't done so, my suggestion would to get some tailwheel dual first. It will pay off in the long run. Fixing broken airplanes can get pretty expensive. One other point--you're not a real "tail-dragger" pilot until you have flown a tail skid. Happy Landings...Always. Doc --- Steve Ruse wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > > What type of crosswind will generally keep you guys > on the ground, assuming you > will be landing on concrete? I'm going to be flying > a GN-1 before long, and > would like to get an idea what some other people are > doing. Also, how much > more crosswind will you tolerate when landing on > grass? > > The plane I'll be flying has a tailwheel, not a > skid. What kind of difference > will a skid make on concrete? > > Thanks for the help! > > Steve Ruse > Dallas, TX > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:55 PM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.net" Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet ribs - material specs --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.net" Thanks guys for your comments on the piet ribs... I can't find my guidelines on wood for the rib material - does it need to follow the same guidelines as the spar? IE: grains per inch, slope, knot size, etc... Tom B. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:18 PM PST US From: "malcolm Zirges" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back to the piet finally --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "malcolm Zirges" Hello. No, I'm not a logger but I do have 10 acres of mixed fir, spruce, and alder timber that I cut a bit now and then and have a self-loader come and haul out a load. I have some spruce that are about 5' in diameter that I hope will provide some good aircraft wood some day. I wish I had some of the "prettier" woods that you have for building cabinets and furniture, although I did do all the trim in my house from my own alder--I made boards with a chainsaw and my neighbor has a small planer. I hope you are making good progress on your project. I have my Piet framed up and now have to find a place to assemble it for installation of controls, landing gear, engine, etc. Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back to the piet finally > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > Hi Mac, > > Are you a logger? That is what my son and I are doing > right now. Wish I had some nice spruce to cut. Our > logs are all oaks and hickory, of which neither is > very good for building an airplane with, it might be > strong, but it would fly like a lead sled. :) > > Doc > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:51 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ygiyKx4AZZoCiykttuyU+iEhDKNpNDUnk4hMK2DsfHD/J4q781NnygQNSwD8IsU8KvVfPYTfajkaGeY6Qi4XdizE2Sit6+p0pVU4w7opW9nzb7K0CvYtsLNCjuOv4BC2SHOy8q8koFO8D4WWGKowtpktlqw1GnbNr3nXesD+1Lk= ; From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back to the piet finally --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Mac, I'll trade some fine Red or White Oak, or even some Black Walnut for some of that wonderful Spruce. I just love working in that stuff. The oaks and walnut do make beautiful furniture, but I love building airplanes more. I've decided to go beyond the Piet and convert my project into a 75% Curtis JN-4D that will have some Piet characterics as well as those of the Standard. I'm back to building more ribs (I'll need 50 altogether) and I am ready to install controls and hardware. Glad to see your making great progress with your project. Best of luck and a Happy New Year to you all. Doc > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > >