Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:59 AM - Re: Spar Thickness (Isablcorky@aol.com)
2. 11:02 AM - Re: Spar Thickness (Rcaprd@aol.com)
3. 11:17 AM - Timeless Voices article (Rcaprd@aol.com)
4. 02:46 PM - Re: Torque Tube fit (Richard Schreiber)
5. 06:52 PM - General metal working question (Rick Holland)
6. 07:05 PM - Re: Torque Tube fit (alexms1@comcast.net)
7. 07:14 PM - Re: General metal working question (J.C. Wheeler)
8. 09:44 PM - Re: General metal working question (Catdesign)
9. 09:47 PM - Re: Torque Tube fit (Catdesign)
10. 10:38 PM - Re:Pietenpol List: General Metalworking Question (Mike Green)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Thickness |
Caution
3/4 spars ok however make your spar positions on the rib jig adjustable for
3/4 and 1" spar openings to accomodate the root ribs, center plate and outboard
ribs which fit over the spar and spar plates and steel lift fittings. 3/4 +
1/8 + 1/8 = 1"
Just a caution. If building the 3 pc wing this will require 8 ribs of 1"
opening.
Carve necessary clearances for steel.
Corky in humid Louisiana but happy to be a part of this new year.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Thickness |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky@aol.com writes:
<< Caution
3/4 spars ok however make your spar positions on the rib jig adjustable for
3/4 and 1" spar openings to accomodate the root ribs, center plate and
outboard
ribs which fit over the spar and spar plates and steel lift fittings. 3/4 +
1/8 + 1/8 = 1"
Just a caution. If building the 3 pc wing this will require 8 ribs of 1"
opening.
Carve necessary clearances for steel. >>
Very good point !! Another consideration might be to alter the size of the
aft gusset of the rib that is at the inboard end of the aileron cut out. Or,
you could just install the extended gusset while you are building the ribs,
which would mean you have a R/H and a L/H rib in that location.
Build new rib jig, so that the gussets and the upright x next to the
spars, are spaced 28 1/16" to 28 1/8" apart. This should be the exact
dimention between the spars, with the exception of the 3 center ribs, and the
outboard ribs where the struts attach. These locations have 1/8" plywood doublers
on each side of the spar.
On my Model A Radiator installation, I used the center section of the
wing, forward of the front spar, and designed so as to allow the top of the
radiator to be within the wing. Two 1/8" plywood L.E. ribs were spaced evenly
between, and paralell to, R1 and L1. These ribs will accept the 1/16" plywood
L.E. (on top), and the 1/32" plywood (within the radiator cavity). I had the
radiator custom built so the top tank was inside the wing, out of the prop
slipstream, and it was the width of the cabanes, and extended down about 12", so
you could see under the radiator.
Hinges are numbered 1 thru 6, beginning on the left wing tip.
Lots of places on the wing needed to be drilled using Granpap's hand
crank drill (chordless !!), because of clearance reasons.
Cable guide blocks were numbered 1 thru 8, starting at the top left.
Jury strut C/L is 37" outboard of C/L of cabane strut attachments. I
estimated the placement of the jury strut attachments by referring to the picture
of the Pietenpol on the 1999 I A M Union Calender.
The 1/8" Plywood doublers, located at the center section and the lift
strut attachments, should have Spaded Ends (football shaped). These doublers
bring the width of the spar to the plans width of 1", and allow the plans
dimentions to be used for all the fittings.
Chuck G.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Timeless Voices article |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
Here is a Dave Harris article to read:
http://www.timelessvoices.org/news/voiceoftheweek/040206_dave_harris.asp
Message 4
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s=test1; d=earthlink.net;
b=Os0Wl/MYmxsllSY/uIpl/wtGAoKFcTpE7/hR6sMb2XNleeWdFM9QHX8/Dxu+0wUw;
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube fit |
Alex,
The fit problem I had with my torque tube was due to its length. When I tried to
fit the completed torque tube (Pulley supports and aileron horn welded in place)
the aileron horn and front pulley support hit the front seat back before
I could get the rear of the torque tube to clear the front of the rear seat.
What I finally wound up doing is putting a 3/4" grove with a rotary sander in the
front cross brace of the rear seat. Since the center of my rear seat is removable,
I am going to just rebrace the seat and put a small cover over the hole.
I think this is what others have done in the past that have had the same problem.
The misfit was not off by much, so I am sure that on some Piet's the torque
tube goes in fine.
I spent today mounting my tailfeathers and trying to locate the ideal position
for the elevator bellcrank to get rid of cable slack and rubbing of the cables
on the horizontal stab.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Richard,
When you say your torque tube does not fit just where does it not fit? I had no
trouble placeing mine in for a temporary trial fit. I have not as yet placed
the rudder bar as I am not sure as just what the distance from the seat front
support it should be positioned. Other than that, Where is your problem?
I may have a problem and not know it.
Happy New Year.
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
I just finished the rest of the welding on my torque tube and can't seem to get
it to fit. From previous posts I new this was a problem so I mocked up the torque
tube with wood and plastic. The fit was going to be tight but seemed to work
out. Unfortunately the real thing wont fit. I know that Walt Evans and a couple
of others have notched the rear seat to clear the rear pulley support, but
I hate to do this if their is another solution. Has everyone else run into
this same problem or is it just me? If you have what were the solutions? It looks
like if I make the side leg openings in the front seat wider than the 6 inches
shown on the plans, it may allow the aileron horn enough clearance to get
the torque tube in, but I don't want to hog out more wood if it doesn't work.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge@earthlink.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | General metal working question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Am starting to work on controls and have a question about the
fabrication of several parts that involve smashing (for lack of a
better term) the ends of 4130 tubing, like the walking beam. Is heat
necessary prior to smashing the ends or do you just put the end in a
vice or beat the hell out of it with a hammer? Most of the pictures I
have seen of these parts leads me to believe that less barberic
methods must be employed.
Thanks
(Metally and mentally challenged)
--
Rick Holland
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube fit |
Rick,
Are you building the extended fuselage? That is what mine is and perhaps that
has something to do with it. I have no problem installing my torque tube controls.
Alex
-------------- Original message --------------
Alex,
The fit problem I had with my torque tube was due to its length. When I tried to
fit the completed torque tube (Pulley supports and aileron horn welded in place)
the aileron horn and front pulley support hit the front seat back before
I could get the rear of the torque tube to clear the front of the rear seat.
What I finally wound up doing is putting a 3/4" grove with a rotary sander in the
front cross brace of the rear seat. Since the center of my rear seat is removable,
I am going to just rebrace the seat and put a small cover over the hole.
I think this is what others have done in the past that have had the same problem.
The misfit was not off by much, so I am sure that on some Piet's the torque
tube goes in fine.
I spent today mounting my tailfeathers and trying to locate the ideal position
for the elevator bellcrank to get rid of cable slack and rubbing of the cables
on the horizontal stab.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Richard,
When you say your torque tube does not fit just where does it not fit? I had no
trouble placeing mine in for a temporary trial fit. I have not as yet placed
the rudder bar as I am not sure as just what the distance from the seat front
support it should be positioned. Other than that, Where is your problem?
I may have a problem and not know it.
Happy New Year.
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
I just finished the rest of the welding on my torque tube and can't seem to get
it to fit. From previous posts I new this was a problem so I mocked up the torque
tube with wood and plastic. The fit was going to be tight but seemed to work
out. Unfortunately the real thing wont fit. I know that Walt Evans and a couple
of others have notched the rear seat to clear the rear pulley support, but
I hate to do this if their is another solution. Has everyone else run into
this same problem or is it just me? If you have what were the solutions? It looks
like if I make the side leg openings in the front seat wider than the 6 inches
shown on the plans, it may allow the aileron horn enough clearance to get
the torque tube in, but I don't want to hog out more wood if it doesn't work.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge@earthlink.net
Rick,
Are you building the extended fuselage? That is what mine is and perhaps that has
something to do with it. I have no problem installing my torque tube controls.
Alex
-------------- Original message --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=GENERATOR>
Alex,
The fit problem I had with my torque tube was due to its length. When I tried to
fit the completed torque tube (Pulley supports and aileron horn welded in place)
the aileron horn and front pulley support hit the front seat back before
I could get the rear of the torque tube to clear the front of the rear seat.
What I finally wound up doing is putting a 3/4" grove with a rotary sander in the
front cross brace of the rear seat. Since the center of my rear seat is removable,
I am going to just rebrace the seat and put a small cover over the hole.
I think this is what others have done in the past that have had the same problem.
The misfit was not off by much, so I am sure that on some Piet's the torque
tube goes in fine.
I spent today mounting my tailfeathers and trying to locate the ideal positionfor
the elevator bellcrank to get rid of cable slack and rubbing of the cables
on the horizontal stab.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: <A title=alexms1@comcast.net ">
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Richard,
When you say your torque tube does not fit just where does it not fit? I had no
trouble placeing mine in for a temporary trial fit. I have not as yet placed
the rudder bar as I am not sure as just what the distance from the seat front
support it should be positioned. Other than that, Where is your problem?
I may have a problem and not know it.
Happy New Year.
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=GENERATOR>
I just finished the rest of the welding on my torque tube and can't seem to get
it to fit. From previous posts I new this was a problem so I mocked up the torque
tube with wood and plastic. The fit was going to be tight but seemed to work
out. Unfortunately the real thing wont fit. I know that Walt Evans and a couple
of others have notched the rear seat to clear the rear pulley support, but
I hate to do this if their is another solution. Has everyone else run into
this same problem or is it just me? If you have what were the solutions? It looks
like if I make the side leg openings in the front seat wider than the 6 inches
shown on the plans, it may allow the aileron horn enough clearance to get
the torque tube in, but I don't want to hog out more wood if it doesn't work.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge@earthlink.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: General metal working question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "J.C. Wheeler" <jc@clarksville-arkansas.us>
Hello Rick,
I am certainly not a metal man, but I would guess that you flatten it cold,
My GUESS!!!
J.C.
Signature of: J.C. Wheeler, The EC-47 History Site.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: General metal working question
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
>
> Am starting to work on controls and have a question about the
> fabrication of several parts that involve smashing (for lack of a
> better term) the ends of 4130 tubing, like the walking beam. Is heat
> necessary prior to smashing the ends or do you just put the end in a
> vice or beat the hell out of it with a hammer? Most of the pictures I
> have seen of these parts leads me to believe that less barberic
> methods must be employed.
>
> Thanks
>
> (Metally and mentally challenged)
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: General metal working question |
Rick
No don't do it cold as this may cause cracking of the tubing. Also, don't
just whack it with a hammer. Been there done that. Basically what you want
to do is take some angle iron, I used about a 6-inch chunk of an old bed
frame. Then I cut a 2-inch (ish) slot at the vertex (?) and bent one of the
sides into a gradual curve, probably a 3-inch or so radius. I played with it
until it looked right. Take a mount this in your bench vice, I had to
secure it with some duct tape. I marked where I wanted the end of the
tubing to go on the tape before heating the tube. I then heated the tubing
until it was red hot and squished it in the vice. Worked out nicely but I
ended up with the squished ends a bit wavy. Perhaps if you don't squish
them so far or put in a piece of flat metal in the tub while you a squishing
it might work better. Make the tube longer then you need an cut it after you
squish the ends.
here is a small picture of metal brackets I described
File Squish 1 is the setup to only squish one side of the tubing, like on
the rod connecting the two sticks
File Squish 2 is for squishing both sides of the tubing like on the rudder
bar.
Also you need to read the articles by Tony Bingelis called Making Fittings -
part 1, 2 and 3. They are on EAA's website under the members section on
their website.......look for (also in his books if you own them (if not you
should))
homebuilders
building
articles
basic construction.
or here if it works
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/basics/articles.html
Chris Tracy former "metally" challenged still not metally gifted
Sacramento CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: General metal working question
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
>
> Am starting to work on controls and have a question about the
> fabrication of several parts that involve smashing (for lack of a
> better term) the ends of 4130 tubing, like the walking beam. Is heat
> necessary prior to smashing the ends or do you just put the end in a
> vice or beat the hell out of it with a hammer? Most of the pictures I
> have seen of these parts leads me to believe that less barberic
> methods must be employed.
>
> Thanks
>
> (Metally and mentally challenged)
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube fit |
I left off the plywood face on the bottom front of the seat and came up through
the floor. Works great for now. I plan on figuring out some way to make this
piece of plywood removable in the future.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Alex,
The fit problem I had with my torque tube was due to its length. When I tried
to fit the completed torque tube (Pulley supports and aileron horn welded in
place) the aileron horn and front pulley support hit the front seat back before
I could get the rear of the torque tube to clear the front of the rear seat.
What I finally wound up doing is putting a 3/4" grove with a rotary sander in
the front cross brace of the rear seat. Since the center of my rear seat is removable,
I am going to just rebrace the seat and put a small cover over the hole.
I think this is what others have done in the past that have had the same
problem. The misfit was not off by much, so I am sure that on some Piet's the
torque tube goes in fine.
I spent today mounting my tailfeathers and trying to locate the ideal position
for the elevator bellcrank to get rid of cable slack and rubbing of the cables
on the horizontal stab.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: 12/31/04 9:44:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube fit
Richard,
When you say your torque tube does not fit just where does it not fit? I had
no trouble placeing mine in for a temporary trial fit. I have not as yet placed
the rudder bar as I am not sure as just what the distance from the seat
front support it should be positioned. Other than that, Where is your problem?
I may have a problem and not know it.
Happy New Year.
Alex S.
-------------- Original message --------------
I just finished the rest of the welding on my torque tube and can't seem
to get it to fit. From previous posts I new this was a problem so I mocked up
the torque tube with wood and plastic. The fit was going to be tight but seemed
to work out. Unfortunately the real thing wont fit. I know that Walt Evans and
a couple of others have notched the rear seat to clear the rear pulley support,
but I hate to do this if their is another solution. Has everyone else run
into this same problem or is it just me? If you have what were the solutions?
It looks like if I make the side leg openings in the front seat wider than the
6 inches shown on the plans, it may allow the aileron horn enough clearance
to get the torque tube in, but I don't want to hog out more wood if it doesn't
work.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge@earthlink.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re:Pietenpol List: General Metalworking Question |
Rick, thanks for asking the question and Chris, thanks for an answer. I stuffed
two lengths of tube yesterday trying the "cold squish in a vise methood"!!!!!
Regards,
Mike Green
Romsey
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
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