Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - rear cockpit solo (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 06:18 AM - Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings (Rick Holland)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Rick Holland)
4. 07:43 AM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Phillips, Jack)
5. 08:04 AM - rear cockpit solo (Edwin Johnson)
6. 08:59 AM - Enjoy changing your Pietenpol to fit you !!!!! (Michael D Cuy)
7. 09:02 AM - 1150 gross (Michael D Cuy)
8. 09:08 AM - long x-countries and thin pilots w/ the nose tank (Michael D Cuy)
9. 09:38 AM - update on N74DV (DJ Vegh)
10. 10:12 AM - Re: update on N74DV (Phillips, Jack)
11. 10:45 AM - filling the tank/was long x-c (Oscar Zuniga)
12. 11:04 AM - Re: filling the tank/was long x-c (James Dallas)
13. 12:01 PM - Re: filling the tank/was long x-c (Isablcorky@aol.com)
14. 01:43 PM - Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings (Phillips, Jack)
15. 02:23 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Carl Vought)
16. 02:39 PM - Re: update on N74DV (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
17. 03:08 PM - Re: rear cockpit solo (horzpool@goldengate.net)
18. 03:21 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Dave and Connie)
19. 03:26 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Isablcorky@aol.com)
20. 04:01 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Galen Hutcheson)
21. 04:53 PM - elevator & rudder hinge brackets (Rvjengel@aol.com)
22. 05:36 PM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Mark Blackwell)
23. 06:52 PM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Ken Chambers)
24. 07:53 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Mike Whaley)
25. 09:24 PM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Todd & Sarah Baslee)
Message 1
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Subject: | rear cockpit solo |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Chuck "Baby Oil" G. asked-
>What is the gross weight ?
>B.H.P. listed it at 1050 lbs.
Corky showed aircraft gross weight as 1,185 lbs. on the dataplate in the
cockpit and all weight & balance calcs were based on that number.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Because after covering the top and bottom of the horizontal stab, top
of the fuselage under the stab, and the bottom of the fin the fin
itself which has the top two rudder hinges in it is going to be
sitting higher than it was when everything was bare wood. (By the
thickness of four layers of fabric and fabric tape). So your bottom
rudder hinge holes don't line up any more (unless you wait until after
covering to drill them).
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:38:36 -0800, Phillips, Jack
<jphillip@alarismed.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
>
> The fabric overlap on the fuselage should not be any more than on the
> vertical fin, so I don't understand why you would need to adjust for
> that. You just need to make sure all your hinges have a "fabric
> allowance" built into them
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Dang, didn't think about spacing for the bottom rudder hinge. Wish you
> were around Jim when I asked this question a couple months ago. My
> hinge position is adjustable but the holes I drilled for it in the
> fuselage are not. Will probably have to fill and redrill the holes
> after covering.
>
> Rick H
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Here we go again. I was in the same place about a year ago that you
are Mark. I spent days going through the archieves and went to
Broadhead last year and found two interesting things. First you
continuously heard messages advicating 'build it to the plans, don't
change a thing'. Then when you closely examine a lot of Piets you find
that no two are built the same, in building materials or
specifications or engines.
You will find that a good percentage of builders make the same changes
to their Piets like higher turtle decks, taller cabanes, wider/longer
fuselage, etc. Plus even though the plans show no brakes or seat belts
most people figure out a way to add those. So I suggested that a
'Twenty first century Piet' set of plans be created containing most of
these changes you see people making. And if that wasn't bad enough I
had the ordasity to suggest that these new plans be done in Auto-Cad
or Turbo-Cad showing all dimensions, multiple perspective views, maybe
even a parts list, etc.
Well all hell broke loose, 'build it to the plans!', 'Bernie didn't
have auto-cad, he didn't even have computers!', 'if God intended man
to fly airplanes designed on a computer he would have given Bernie the
insight to invent the computer before he invented the Piet' (actually,
I make up that last snide comment).
In closing Mark the only advice I can offer is 'Build It To The Plans'
and don't change a thing like all the builders on this newsgroup.
RIck H
Fuselage, ribs, and tails feathers completed 'to the plans'.
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:41:20 -0500, Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
> Thanks for all those that have responded. I am sure you could modify
> the plans, but that really was not what I was looking for. Though it
> might work, when you modify plans you open up a whole can of worms and
> the proven nature of the design becomes something that is totally
> untested. I do not have the engineering expertise to be able to do
> that, and was hoping someone had.
>
> I would need more than just more cockpit room. The wing would need to
> be raised for me to see and getting in the front would be a physical
> impossiblity without some changes. I hoped someone had essentially a
> different set of plans that had been reviewed and used for some time in
> a number of airplanes.
>
> Though it looks like fun a Piet may not be the right airplane for me.
>
> horzpool@goldengate.net wrote:
>
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: horzpool@goldengate.net
> >
> >Mark
> >I built a fuselage at Sun n Fun acouple of years ago that might suit you.
> >Take the basic long fuse plan and trty substituting the measurements for
> >the forward bridge decks to the short fuselage plan. I also reclined my
> >rear seat by 1" for comfort. You shold be able to get an additional 8-9"
> >in this process. It made all the diffrence to me. 5'11" & 200 lb.
> >Dick N.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 4
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Subject: | Sat in my first Peit today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Rick is right - there are a lot of "purists" who will advocate building
the plane exactly to the plans. However, I defy anyone to build it
exactly to the plans in every detail becasue the plans themselves have
some flaws (the detail showing the compression struts between the wing
spars comes to mind).
I have investigated a couple of Pietenpols built by BHP himself, and
they are not at all alike. He designed at least three different
fuselages and several different wing configurations. I suspect every
plane he built was different in some respect from the others.
To me, the things that make a plane "A Pietenpol" are the airfoil
section of the wing, the basic layout of the structure, i.e., the
location of the spars and the longerons, the lift struts and the cabane
struts, and the basic planforms of the wings and control surfaces.
There a number of changes that can be made (and some, like Jury Struts
and the diagonal braces from the cabanes to the engine mount that SHOULD
be made) without departing from the basic Pietenpol design.
One of the things that makes this such a great design is the fact that
it can be easily modified to suit a particular builder and still end up
with a safe flying machine with good flying qualities. Just look at the
variety of engines that have been used on Piets - many by BHP himself.
I know of no other design so easily adaptable to different powerplants.
As for making a 21st century plans set, I wouldn't know which
configuration to choose to make "the new standard". Mine is the long
fuselage, widened 1", with a taller turtledeck, a straight axle, wire
wheels, 65 hp Continental, centersection 6" wider than plans to allow
for a larger fuel tank (15 gallons in the centersection), piano hinge
ailerons, trim system, electrical system, radio, intercom, and
transponder with blind encoder, 3 piece windshields, and baggage
compartment in the nose. To me it is ideal. To someone built
differently than me, the extra length and width of the fuselage would be
too much extra weight and cost. To someone who doesn't have to fly in
Class B & Class C airspace, the radio and transponder are superfluous.
Some would object to the extra weight and cost of the wire wheels. I
think they "make" the look of the airplane.
In other words, to each his own. Don't be afraid to modify the design
as you need to fit your personal requirements. As long as it still uses
the Pietenpol airfoil and general configuration, I wouldn't worry about
the "purists".
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Here we go again. I was in the same place about a year ago that you
are Mark. I spent days going through the archieves and went to
Broadhead last year and found two interesting things. First you
continuously heard messages advicating 'build it to the plans, don't
change a thing'. Then when you closely examine a lot of Piets you find
that no two are built the same, in building materials or
specifications or engines.
You will find that a good percentage of builders make the same changes
to their Piets like higher turtle decks, taller cabanes, wider/longer
fuselage, etc. Plus even though the plans show no brakes or seat belts
most people figure out a way to add those. So I suggested that a
'Twenty first century Piet' set of plans be created containing most of
these changes you see people making. And if that wasn't bad enough I
had the ordasity to suggest that these new plans be done in Auto-Cad
or Turbo-Cad showing all dimensions, multiple perspective views, maybe
even a parts list, etc.
Well all hell broke loose, 'build it to the plans!', 'Bernie didn't
have auto-cad, he didn't even have computers!', 'if God intended man
to fly airplanes designed on a computer he would have given Bernie the
insight to invent the computer before he invented the Piet' (actually,
I make up that last snide comment).
In closing Mark the only advice I can offer is 'Build It To The Plans'
and don't change a thing like all the builders on this newsgroup.
RIck H
Fuselage, ribs, and tails feathers completed 'to the plans'.
Message 5
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Subject: | rear cockpit solo |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson <elj@shreve.net>
Hello Oscar,
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> Working through the weight & balance on 41CC and looking at extreme forward
> and rearward C of G conditions in the spreadsheet (thanks, Bert and Nancy
> 2. Again checking aft C of G, at a "running on fumes" condition of minimum
> fuel and oil, the aft C of G is exceeded with a pilot any heavier than 175
Since I'm the one who test flew N41CC and the succeeding 25 hours, I might
comment on this.
First, the 'tail heavy' aspect is the 'nature of the beast' and it's
notorious aft-CG problem is well documented, so no surprise there.
According to my notes, Corky and I used 1150 as gross weight figures. I
built a special graphic W&B program as well as a separate spread sheet and
did extensive looking at the problem and various situations.
It all summarizes into what you have discovered. In this particular plane,
before any rebuild, any pilot over 92 lbs with full fuel will place the
plane within the forward CG limits. Any less fuel with that pilot will
move the CG more toward the middle of the envelope.
Now in all Piets with a front fuselage tank the problem is at the end of
the trip when fuel level diminishes and CG moves backward. So if you wish
to stay within the aft envelope, you must establish a rule as to how far
down the fuel may be burned for the particular pilot weight. The heavier
the pilot, naturally, the more fuel must remain in order to keep the plane
within CG. Mike Cuy and I corresponded about this and he has spoken to
this fact in this list.
With my weight, feather weight as Corky put it <grin>, I had no problem.
But with any pilot over 161 lbs, allowances must be figured. All of the
above is assuming no passenger and I am speaking of N41CC as it is
configured.
Of course, there is nothing new in the email and all of this is well know
and has been discussed. Incidentally, when we went from the heavier metal
prop to the wooden prop (early in the test program) things changed
dramatically since the empty CG shifted aft.
The Piet, like the J3, should always be soloed from the rear. The use of a
placard would probably be up to the builder and/or inspector.
No new territory in this email, just thought I might comment how I
approached the CG issue for flight planning/fuel burn purposes.
...Edwin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson .. elj@shreve.net .. www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your~
~ eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you~
~ long to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message 6
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Subject: | Enjoy changing your Pietenpol to fit you !!!!! |
m>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Amen, Rick Holland and Jack Phillips----there is nothing wrong with
deviating from the plans.
Nothing at all, provided you just think things thru and figure out what
else will have to change, if anything
of the 'fallout' of those changes. There is nothing sacred about building
to the plans. There are no two
Piets alike and besides there is no such thing as an originally-built
Pietenpol. All 26 of the ones that
BHP built were different so there are 26 original Pietenpol designs out
there--we only see what he put
down on the plans at the time they were drawn up by W. Hoopman is all.
I won't repeat the insightful comments by Jack, but re-read them. He's
right on too.
Mike C.
PS-- in other countries like Great Britain they are not allowed to deviate
from plans and if you do, you must
go thru hell for the PFA to approve it. Be thankful and be creative and
customize !!!!! Don't get crazy, but
have fun.
Message 7
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241@matronics.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Edwin-- thru the cob webs of my memory I can't recall where I came up with
the 1150 gross weight either
but it was a Pietenpol source, not heresay.
I can say that I've taken off at 1100 lbs. on about an 80 F day and it
didn't do too terribly bad. Not the greatest
but still climbed out fairly well. (Elev was 810 msl)
Mike C.
Message 8
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Subject: | long x-countries and thin pilots w/ the nose tank |
241@matronics.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
What you have Oscar is a plane that you will trim by changing your fuel
load for a particular flight.
Most of you flying I suspect will be 1/2 hour round the airport type flying
so you'll fly with 10 gallons
instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of the CG envelope.
When you go x-country solo you'll have enough baggage in the front seat to
help you out on the full tank
condition and if you have enough bladder control to fly the three solid
hours that it would take for you to
get 41CC down to where the fuel level makes you too far forward on the CG
then you are quite a guy.
I fly two hour legs on long x-countries with my nose tank and then
land. That is plenty of time in the
saddle plus it leaves you with a nice balanced situation. If you get into
the too far forward and too far aft
CG ranges then either you couldn't find gas at your last airport or didn't
drain off enough for featherweight
pilots to fly it.
Mike C.
Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering.
EVERYTHING else is complete.
Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a
very big BUT)
There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year
waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have
moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that.
So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn
thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking
with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find
something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope.
Nothing... zilch... nada.
So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a
long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even
mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's
plenty of ramp space available.
Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill
me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :)
Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration.....
I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomorrow... maybe that'll cheer me
up.
DJ Vegh
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
DJ,
I know it's painful to have a fabric covered plane (particularly a
wooden one) sitting out in the sun, tied down instead of secure in a
nice dark hangar, but with today's fabrics and paints it really isn't as
bad as you might think. Use the Stits PolyFiber Process, with a good
solid coat of silver (polyspray) and their Aerothane polyurethane paint
and it should be no problem at all to have it outside for a couple of
years while you move up the hangar list. I don't know how latex house
paint would hold up under such conditions, but I know a number of Stits
covered planes that have sat outside for years with no noticeable
effects.
Besides, saying it "just needs covering" means you are at least a year
away from having to worry about a place to keep it. It took me well
over a year to cover and paint mine (granted, I lost a couple of months
waiting for weather warm enough to spray paint in my unheated garage).
Don't give up yet!
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and
covering.
EVERYTHING else is complete.
Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this
is a
very big BUT)
There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
have no where to keep it...
Message 11
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Subject: | filling the tank/was long x-c |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Mike wrote-
>you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of
>the CG envelope.
Dagnab it, my mother always told me never to go outside barefoot when it's
cold, and my instructor always told me never to put the airplane away
without topping off the tanks. My mother is dead now, God rest her soul,
but I still have this thing about topping off with fuel at the end of the
day. But I understand (as Edwin, Mike, and the rest of you have most
helpfully pointed out)- that we have all of these things as tools that we
use to load and operate our machines properly and even as an older dog I can
still be taught new tricks.
Thanks for the fine discussions.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: filling the tank/was long x-c |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:58:46 -0600
Oscar,
The thing about filling the tanks is to keep condensation out of the fuel. But
if you sump your tanks before fight like your supposed to it shouldn't be a problem....as
long as the sumps are at the lowest point. The small amounts that
you may not get are caught in the gaskolator (not sure about the proper spelling)before
it goes to the carb. A lot of airplanes manufactured today may have
four to six seats but if you top them off may only be able to legally take
off with one person on board. Me personally, I would rather take off with partial
fuel, light load and go play.
Jim Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: filling the tank/was long x-c
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Mike wrote-
>you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of
>the CG envelope.
Dagnab it, my mother always told me never to go outside barefoot when it's
cold, and my instructor always told me never to put the airplane away
without topping off the tanks. My mother is dead now, God rest her soul,
but I still have this thing about topping off with fuel at the end of the
day. But I understand (as Edwin, Mike, and the rest of you have most
helpfully pointed out)- that we have all of these things as tools that we
use to load and operate our machines properly and even as an older dog I can
still be taught new tricks.
Thanks for the fine discussions.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: filling the tank/was long x-c |
Pieters,
This recent discussion of fuel tanks and CG has activated my old wheels to
turn. No doubt that a Piet type aircraft is difficult to trim, CG, with a
forward fuse tank from full to 3 gallons, never let it get below that. NX311CC,
Repiet, is sitting in the shop with a completed fuse and center section. Has an
18
gal alum fuel tank forward to firewall. So, if I takeoff from Shreveport to
Brodhead will full tank and 190 lb Corky in the rear pit it should fly great
with a slight back pressure needed on the stick for the first hour. By the time
I land in Arkadelphia I will probably be healing the stick with forward
pressure. These assumptions are based upon experience of Nathan Moss flying NX41CC.
So, the WB can be controlled with the amount of fuel in the tank relative to
the weight of the rear pit pilot.
So, if I were to build a center section alum tank of 14.8 gal capacity it
would be very simple and convenient and pleasant flying on any given situation
knowing how much fuel to have in forward tank for balance AND extended cruise.
No elaborate plumbing required just a Y at the gascolator and another line
cutoff within pilot reach for the wing tank. When I add fuel in Arkadelphia and
all points nawth to Brodhead just merely top off the wing tank.
Now, in addition with 32+ gals there is no limit except the lower back to
where you might go. Might even make Beliese and stay with the fisherman.
Gad!!!!!!! imagine an 8hr leg in a Piet
Corky, dreaming in La with his bride
Message 14
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Subject: | Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Of course.
I was thinking in the fore and aft direction - not vertically. I guess
it wasn't much of a problem - I had no problem assembling mine, with no
allowances made for fabric thickness there.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Because after covering the top and bottom of the horizontal stab, top
of the fuselage under the stab, and the bottom of the fin the fin
itself which has the top two rudder hinges in it is going to be
sitting higher than it was when everything was bare wood. (By the
thickness of four layers of fabric and fabric tape). So your bottom
rudder hinge holes don't line up any more (unless you wait until after
covering to drill them).
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
> about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and
covering.
> EVERYTHING else is complete.
>
DJ you've hit a nerve. This is the first time I've verbalized this outside
of my immediate family, but I'm afraid I waited too late to start my Piet.
It's very close to being finished and now I'm in a race with my health. I'm
planning to complete the plane then see if I can still declare myself
"airworthy". I have a second Piet which is in storage which I have decided
to sell. You're right, it is depressing.......Good luck........Carl Vought
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
Hey, not only would your old man raise hell, but a whole mess of us TACOs and
a bunch of them Damned Yankess would be pissed as well.
I'd look into renting a hanger 150 miles away in some obscure town. I had a
hanger in a small town about 3 hours away that cost me $35 a month! This was in
Childress, Texas and the rates have sky-rocketed to $45 a month now (13 years
later.) NO WAY IN HELL ARE YOU SELLING THAT AIRPLANE!
You won't be living in Mesa all your life and some day you'll be in a part of
the country that isn't growing so darned fast... then you would kick yourself
for getting rid of your airplane.
Seriously, if you had to park the airplane 300 miles away, you could make
this work.
If you were so darned far away, I'd let you park it here at my place.
Something will give, just KEEP THE AIRPLANE.
Isn't there an airport in Florence, AZ? If not, try Payson... but don't give
up.
Maybe I'll build a storage building at Knot-2-Shabby and you can park it here
for free.
Sterling
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: rear cockpit solo |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: horzpool@goldengate.net
Oscar
This is a piddly point, but the min fuel spec if you are using an A-65 is
about 5 gal.
Dick N.>
> insofar as it will be nearly impossible to overload the airplane, but does
> indicate some care is required to keep the aft C of G in range. With 170
> lb. pilot and 210 lb. passenger, minimum fuel (2 gal.), and min. oil, it's
> at maximum aft limit but still 183 lbs. under gross.
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
<200501120756.j0C7uev32241@matronics.com>
<5.1.1.5.2.20050112120337.01b15670@popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
<000501c4f8cd$88e6d5b0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
DJ,
Do what I did when I bought the Taylorcraft. Get out the sectional and
draw a circle at the longest distance that you feel like driving to go
flying. Then call the owner of every farm strip that is in the circle. I
made it about 4 before the guy said yes, I could use his old hangar. Also
ask the old CFIs about strips that aren't on the sectional. There are a
huge number of them here in upstate NY.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 12:38 PM 1/12/2005, DJ Vegh wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
>well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
>about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering.
>EVERYTHING else is complete.
>
>Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a
>very big BUT)
>
>There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
>have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year
>waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have
>moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that.
>
>So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn
>thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking
>with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find
>something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope.
>Nothing... zilch... nada.
>
>So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a
>long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even
>mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's
>plenty of ramp space available.
>
>Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill
>me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :)
>
>Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration.....
>
>I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomo rrow...maybethat'llcheerme
>up.
>
>DJ Vegh
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Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
Arizona Pieter,
In my short lifetime I've hitch hiked, railroaded, motored and flown over
your fair state. In most places there is nothing, I mean nothing. Now is that
flat desert so expensive that those 150 waiters couldn't find a little spot
somewhere like 10 acres for sale or lease, post flags for a runway, build a few
pole sheds and you could build your own waiting list? Maybe America has passed
me
up but I'll be damned if I would give up because of no hangar space in Mesa
and other close places. Anyone with enough guts to drive a Piet through their
neighborhood should be able to find it a home in the desert. A Piet doesn't
need hay or water. Talk to some dusters for advice.
Corky, flying near the bayou in La
Message 20
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=0zzZpVHG/8n4bKLkwhuomKVagWwuwL8Z4BHbxDNw4R9TACQMnQAEdTHb0GPjPV6vArrnqHRv9EizbAhJ+BkSBLPCmXre/IiFS6NlCGa9GgVNm94JrQmuBZTnF3k5Z7/itYZSqO37MIBtWHml9VGrlgY9G3Dvm5piCwsDml//DV0=
;
Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
DJ, a hanger is really just a luxury. When I was
barnstorming (first in the WACO-see attchment-and then
in the Bird) I would be away from home base for as
much a three months at a time, always moving from one
town to another, and rarely ever saw a hanger.
Instead, I covered the cockpits and engine with old
Army ponchos, all tied down nice and tight and made
sure I had plenty of tie-down ropes in place. I
carried a set of home-made tiedown anchors for when
there was only grass for the plane to sit upon. We
weathered out many storms and generally bad weather
together, me with a small tent pitched near the plane.
The plane got wiped down a lot and flown even more.
Rocker box grease, fresh thrown from the engine, makes
a great protective layer over the paint to help shed
rain-drops off the drum taught fabric. I never really
saw any worse for wear and weather by doing this.
Folks get used to having a nice warm and dry hanger to
keep their pride and joys in, but more planes have sat
outside than they have inside a hanger. Don't get me
wrong, a hanger is very nice if you have one, but
don't get rid of your airplane (and I'm not sure I
would drive three hours just to fly) just go to the
nearest Army/Navy Surplus store and buy you some
"portable hangers." Good luck and hang(er) in there,
something will come up sooner or later...it always
does.
Doc
-
>
__________________________________
Message 21
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Subject: | elevator & rudder hinge brackets |
I have just started rebuilding a Grega Piet that needs new hinge brackets
for the elevators and rudder. Are these available to purchase somewhere or do
they have to be built from scratch.
Thanks
Jerry Engel
rvjengel@aol.com
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
My point was that I knew it could be modified, but I do not pretend to
know even close to enough to know what can and can not be changed from
plans and still be safe.
I would need some fairly significant changes. Raising the height of the
wing from the fuselage would be one Id want to have at least some
forward vis and that opens the door to many potential problems. So does
adding length an width potentially to a fuselage. If a revised set of
plans for a big guy were available Id buy them.
I didn't mean to start the purist debate. If a set of plans were
available that had the alterations made and been reviewed by someone
more versed in these matters than myself, Id go that route. Im a pilot
not a designer. I just might mistake something that is a big deal for
something that isn't and I want to be here to complain when I do not get
my social security checks. Any airplane, even an aircraft as simple as
a Piet can and will bite if not treated with respect. For that matter
any airplane that has survived and thrived as long as a Piet deserves
that anyway.
Mark
Mark
>
>
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Jack
Do you happen to remember your turtledeck dimensions?
You mentioned that you raised it a couple of inches - was that across the
board for all the turtledecks or did you use some other method of smoothing
it out?
I ask because I'm about your height - and because I'm crazy about the looks
of your airplane.
Ken in Austin, who's putting off mountains of work on the hold house to
squeeze in a little Piet time.
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: update on N74DV |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
To follwo up on Dave's suggestion to look for every little unknown airport
possible, here's a great site with a bunch of places you may have never
heard of, updated frequently:
Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields Website
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/
Keep the faith... the waiting list here in Melbourne FL (MLB) is about 150+
people long from what I've heard and the idiots running the local airport
are working hard to REMOVE half the (now full) T-Hangars and our crosswind
runway. That has me considering whether the Piet or Zodiac is the more
practical plane... at least a metal plane won't be quite as bad outside
here. Of course, with our daily thunderstorms, frequent tornadoes and
microbursts, small hail, intense lightning, and the occasional hurricanes
don't kill the wooden planes left sitting outside, then the wood rot
probably will. Just my opinion, I know some have done this with few problems
but it seems like a big gamble for something you've poured years of your
life into. There's a Fly Baby bipe down at Valkaria that has been sitting
outside, it looks ROUGH. Dunno what it looked like before, but it sure looks
like a plane that's been stored outside for a long time.
Arizona is probably at least better for outside storage. I know of a
wooden-winged biplane that came apart in mid air recently, nearly killing
the pilot, due to being stored outdoors for only two years in the Miami
area... the whole spar was rotted through from moisture that had condensed
or collected inside the wing... it wasn't found when the new owner bought
the plane (which had been built by an Oshkosh-winning craftsman, the
original construction was excellent and the design was not an issue... it
was all from improper storage.) and after 11 months and 250 hours of acro,
it finally let go. High price to pay for not having a hangar available.
The other side of the coin is that apparently, the companies that build and
operate T-Hangars have to make their money back in about 7 years for it to
be economically viable for them to do (something to do with the duration of
their construction loans or taxes I suppose.) Since the construction boom
has doubled the price of steel lately, they would have to charge something
like $900 a month to make any money, so therefore, they don't have any
incentive to build since nobody would sign up. At least that's what our EAA
chapter was told by a guy who had spent considerable time researching our
situation here.
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is
> about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and
covering.
> EVERYTHING else is complete.
>
> Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is
a
> very big BUT)
>
> There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I
> have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year
> waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and
have
> moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that.
>
> So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn
> thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports
talking
> with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd
find
> something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope.
> Nothing... zilch... nada.
>
> So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be
a
> long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've
even
> mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's
> plenty of ramp space available.
>
> Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill
> me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad.
:)
>
> Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration.....
>
> I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomorrow... maybe that'll cheer me
> up.
>
> DJ Vegh
>
>
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Sat in my first Peit today |
Clear DayHi guys,
I sat in a Pietenpol for the first time in Brodhead and found it at first quite
interesting. I am 6' 4.5" and weighed 240 lbs. Getting into the Piet for the
first time was a challenge. However, I made it. Bill Rewey was kind enough
to give me my first ride in a Piet and later explained that he made some modifications
to the original (longer & wider). He has documented all of his work
and, I believe, he has some of his documentation and recommendations for sale
- not at a very high price. My friend, Greg Bacon, recently purchased Mountain
Piet. I found getting into it quite easy. I also fit quite well. The only
problem that I have encountered with the Piet and my largeness, is the windscreen.
While flying, my face is above the windscreen which can cause communication
problems and the such (a few bugs in the teeth).
DJ, When I read your posting I was very surprised. Seeing your website and reading
your posts on this site has really encouraged me. Just because there is
no space available now doesn't mean that something, somewhere is not going to
open up soon. Just keep up the work and encouraging us newbie's with your posts
and your website updates.
Todd Baslee
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