---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/12/05: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - rear cockpit solo (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 06:18 AM - Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings (Rick Holland) 3. 06:52 AM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Rick Holland) 4. 07:43 AM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Phillips, Jack) 5. 08:04 AM - rear cockpit solo (Edwin Johnson) 6. 08:59 AM - Enjoy changing your Pietenpol to fit you !!!!! (Michael D Cuy) 7. 09:02 AM - 1150 gross (Michael D Cuy) 8. 09:08 AM - long x-countries and thin pilots w/ the nose tank (Michael D Cuy) 9. 09:38 AM - update on N74DV (DJ Vegh) 10. 10:12 AM - Re: update on N74DV (Phillips, Jack) 11. 10:45 AM - filling the tank/was long x-c (Oscar Zuniga) 12. 11:04 AM - Re: filling the tank/was long x-c (James Dallas) 13. 12:01 PM - Re: filling the tank/was long x-c (Isablcorky@aol.com) 14. 01:43 PM - Re: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings (Phillips, Jack) 15. 02:23 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Carl Vought) 16. 02:39 PM - Re: update on N74DV (N321TX@wmconnect.com) 17. 03:08 PM - Re: rear cockpit solo (horzpool@goldengate.net) 18. 03:21 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Dave and Connie) 19. 03:26 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Isablcorky@aol.com) 20. 04:01 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Galen Hutcheson) 21. 04:53 PM - elevator & rudder hinge brackets (Rvjengel@aol.com) 22. 05:36 PM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Mark Blackwell) 23. 06:52 PM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Ken Chambers) 24. 07:53 PM - Re: update on N74DV (Mike Whaley) 25. 09:24 PM - Re: Sat in my first Peit today (Todd & Sarah Baslee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:47 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: rear cockpit solo --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Chuck "Baby Oil" G. asked- >What is the gross weight ? >B.H.P. listed it at 1050 lbs. Corky showed aircraft gross weight as 1,185 lbs. on the dataplate in the cockpit and all weight & balance calcs were based on that number. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:35 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Because after covering the top and bottom of the horizontal stab, top of the fuselage under the stab, and the bottom of the fin the fin itself which has the top two rudder hinges in it is going to be sitting higher than it was when everything was bare wood. (By the thickness of four layers of fabric and fabric tape). So your bottom rudder hinge holes don't line up any more (unless you wait until after covering to drill them). On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:38:36 -0800, Phillips, Jack wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" > > The fabric overlap on the fuselage should not be any more than on the > vertical fin, so I don't understand why you would need to adjust for > that. You just need to make sure all your hinges have a "fabric > allowance" built into them > > Jack Phillips > > -----Original Message----- > Dang, didn't think about spacing for the bottom rudder hinge. Wish you > were around Jim when I asked this question a couple months ago. My > hinge position is adjustable but the holes I drilled for it in the > fuselage are not. Will probably have to fill and redrill the holes > after covering. > > Rick H > > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:47 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sat in my first Peit today --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Here we go again. I was in the same place about a year ago that you are Mark. I spent days going through the archieves and went to Broadhead last year and found two interesting things. First you continuously heard messages advicating 'build it to the plans, don't change a thing'. Then when you closely examine a lot of Piets you find that no two are built the same, in building materials or specifications or engines. You will find that a good percentage of builders make the same changes to their Piets like higher turtle decks, taller cabanes, wider/longer fuselage, etc. Plus even though the plans show no brakes or seat belts most people figure out a way to add those. So I suggested that a 'Twenty first century Piet' set of plans be created containing most of these changes you see people making. And if that wasn't bad enough I had the ordasity to suggest that these new plans be done in Auto-Cad or Turbo-Cad showing all dimensions, multiple perspective views, maybe even a parts list, etc. Well all hell broke loose, 'build it to the plans!', 'Bernie didn't have auto-cad, he didn't even have computers!', 'if God intended man to fly airplanes designed on a computer he would have given Bernie the insight to invent the computer before he invented the Piet' (actually, I make up that last snide comment). In closing Mark the only advice I can offer is 'Build It To The Plans' and don't change a thing like all the builders on this newsgroup. RIck H Fuselage, ribs, and tails feathers completed 'to the plans'. On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:41:20 -0500, Mark Blackwell wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell > > Thanks for all those that have responded. I am sure you could modify > the plans, but that really was not what I was looking for. Though it > might work, when you modify plans you open up a whole can of worms and > the proven nature of the design becomes something that is totally > untested. I do not have the engineering expertise to be able to do > that, and was hoping someone had. > > I would need more than just more cockpit room. The wing would need to > be raised for me to see and getting in the front would be a physical > impossiblity without some changes. I hoped someone had essentially a > different set of plans that had been reviewed and used for some time in > a number of airplanes. > > Though it looks like fun a Piet may not be the right airplane for me. > > horzpool@goldengate.net wrote: > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: horzpool@goldengate.net > > > >Mark > >I built a fuselage at Sun n Fun acouple of years ago that might suit you. > >Take the basic long fuse plan and trty substituting the measurements for > >the forward bridge decks to the short fuselage plan. I also reclined my > >rear seat by 1" for comfort. You shold be able to get an additional 8-9" > >in this process. It made all the diffrence to me. 5'11" & 200 lb. > >Dick N. > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sat in my first Peit today From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Rick is right - there are a lot of "purists" who will advocate building the plane exactly to the plans. However, I defy anyone to build it exactly to the plans in every detail becasue the plans themselves have some flaws (the detail showing the compression struts between the wing spars comes to mind). I have investigated a couple of Pietenpols built by BHP himself, and they are not at all alike. He designed at least three different fuselages and several different wing configurations. I suspect every plane he built was different in some respect from the others. To me, the things that make a plane "A Pietenpol" are the airfoil section of the wing, the basic layout of the structure, i.e., the location of the spars and the longerons, the lift struts and the cabane struts, and the basic planforms of the wings and control surfaces. There a number of changes that can be made (and some, like Jury Struts and the diagonal braces from the cabanes to the engine mount that SHOULD be made) without departing from the basic Pietenpol design. One of the things that makes this such a great design is the fact that it can be easily modified to suit a particular builder and still end up with a safe flying machine with good flying qualities. Just look at the variety of engines that have been used on Piets - many by BHP himself. I know of no other design so easily adaptable to different powerplants. As for making a 21st century plans set, I wouldn't know which configuration to choose to make "the new standard". Mine is the long fuselage, widened 1", with a taller turtledeck, a straight axle, wire wheels, 65 hp Continental, centersection 6" wider than plans to allow for a larger fuel tank (15 gallons in the centersection), piano hinge ailerons, trim system, electrical system, radio, intercom, and transponder with blind encoder, 3 piece windshields, and baggage compartment in the nose. To me it is ideal. To someone built differently than me, the extra length and width of the fuselage would be too much extra weight and cost. To someone who doesn't have to fly in Class B & Class C airspace, the radio and transponder are superfluous. Some would object to the extra weight and cost of the wire wheels. I think they "make" the look of the airplane. In other words, to each his own. Don't be afraid to modify the design as you need to fit your personal requirements. As long as it still uses the Pietenpol airfoil and general configuration, I wouldn't worry about the "purists". Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Here we go again. I was in the same place about a year ago that you are Mark. I spent days going through the archieves and went to Broadhead last year and found two interesting things. First you continuously heard messages advicating 'build it to the plans, don't change a thing'. Then when you closely examine a lot of Piets you find that no two are built the same, in building materials or specifications or engines. You will find that a good percentage of builders make the same changes to their Piets like higher turtle decks, taller cabanes, wider/longer fuselage, etc. Plus even though the plans show no brakes or seat belts most people figure out a way to add those. So I suggested that a 'Twenty first century Piet' set of plans be created containing most of these changes you see people making. And if that wasn't bad enough I had the ordasity to suggest that these new plans be done in Auto-Cad or Turbo-Cad showing all dimensions, multiple perspective views, maybe even a parts list, etc. Well all hell broke loose, 'build it to the plans!', 'Bernie didn't have auto-cad, he didn't even have computers!', 'if God intended man to fly airplanes designed on a computer he would have given Bernie the insight to invent the computer before he invented the Piet' (actually, I make up that last snide comment). In closing Mark the only advice I can offer is 'Build It To The Plans' and don't change a thing like all the builders on this newsgroup. RIck H Fuselage, ribs, and tails feathers completed 'to the plans'. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:39 AM PST US From: Edwin Johnson Subject: Pietenpol-List: rear cockpit solo --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson Hello Oscar, > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > Working through the weight & balance on 41CC and looking at extreme forward > and rearward C of G conditions in the spreadsheet (thanks, Bert and Nancy > 2. Again checking aft C of G, at a "running on fumes" condition of minimum > fuel and oil, the aft C of G is exceeded with a pilot any heavier than 175 Since I'm the one who test flew N41CC and the succeeding 25 hours, I might comment on this. First, the 'tail heavy' aspect is the 'nature of the beast' and it's notorious aft-CG problem is well documented, so no surprise there. According to my notes, Corky and I used 1150 as gross weight figures. I built a special graphic W&B program as well as a separate spread sheet and did extensive looking at the problem and various situations. It all summarizes into what you have discovered. In this particular plane, before any rebuild, any pilot over 92 lbs with full fuel will place the plane within the forward CG limits. Any less fuel with that pilot will move the CG more toward the middle of the envelope. Now in all Piets with a front fuselage tank the problem is at the end of the trip when fuel level diminishes and CG moves backward. So if you wish to stay within the aft envelope, you must establish a rule as to how far down the fuel may be burned for the particular pilot weight. The heavier the pilot, naturally, the more fuel must remain in order to keep the plane within CG. Mike Cuy and I corresponded about this and he has spoken to this fact in this list. With my weight, feather weight as Corky put it , I had no problem. But with any pilot over 161 lbs, allowances must be figured. All of the above is assuming no passenger and I am speaking of N41CC as it is configured. Of course, there is nothing new in the email and all of this is well know and has been discussed. Incidentally, when we went from the heavier metal prop to the wooden prop (early in the test program) things changed dramatically since the empty CG shifted aft. The Piet, like the J3, should always be soloed from the rear. The use of a placard would probably be up to the builder and/or inspector. No new territory in this email, just thought I might comment how I approached the CG issue for flight planning/fuel burn purposes. ...Edwin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Edwin Johnson .. elj@shreve.net .. www.shreve.net/~elj ~ ~ ~ ~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your~ ~ eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you~ ~ long to return." -- da Vinci ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:47 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enjoy changing your Pietenpol to fit you !!!!! m> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Amen, Rick Holland and Jack Phillips----there is nothing wrong with deviating from the plans. Nothing at all, provided you just think things thru and figure out what else will have to change, if anything of the 'fallout' of those changes. There is nothing sacred about building to the plans. There are no two Piets alike and besides there is no such thing as an originally-built Pietenpol. All 26 of the ones that BHP built were different so there are 26 original Pietenpol designs out there--we only see what he put down on the plans at the time they were drawn up by W. Hoopman is all. I won't repeat the insightful comments by Jack, but re-read them. He's right on too. Mike C. PS-- in other countries like Great Britain they are not allowed to deviate from plans and if you do, you must go thru hell for the PFA to approve it. Be thankful and be creative and customize !!!!! Don't get crazy, but have fun. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:26 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1150 gross 241@matronics.com> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Edwin-- thru the cob webs of my memory I can't recall where I came up with the 1150 gross weight either but it was a Pietenpol source, not heresay. I can say that I've taken off at 1100 lbs. on about an 80 F day and it didn't do too terribly bad. Not the greatest but still climbed out fairly well. (Elev was 810 msl) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:40 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: long x-countries and thin pilots w/ the nose tank 241@matronics.com> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy What you have Oscar is a plane that you will trim by changing your fuel load for a particular flight. Most of you flying I suspect will be 1/2 hour round the airport type flying so you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of the CG envelope. When you go x-country solo you'll have enough baggage in the front seat to help you out on the full tank condition and if you have enough bladder control to fly the three solid hours that it would take for you to get 41CC down to where the fuel level makes you too far forward on the CG then you are quite a guy. I fly two hour legs on long x-countries with my nose tank and then land. That is plenty of time in the saddle plus it leaves you with a nice balanced situation. If you get into the too far forward and too far aft CG ranges then either you couldn't find gas at your last airport or didn't drain off enough for featherweight pilots to fly it. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:35 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering. EVERYTHING else is complete. Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a very big BUT) There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that. So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope. Nothing... zilch... nada. So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's plenty of ramp space available. Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :) Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration..... I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomorrow... maybe that'll cheer me up. DJ Vegh ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" DJ, I know it's painful to have a fabric covered plane (particularly a wooden one) sitting out in the sun, tied down instead of secure in a nice dark hangar, but with today's fabrics and paints it really isn't as bad as you might think. Use the Stits PolyFiber Process, with a good solid coat of silver (polyspray) and their Aerothane polyurethane paint and it should be no problem at all to have it outside for a couple of years while you move up the hangar list. I don't know how latex house paint would hold up under such conditions, but I know a number of Stits covered planes that have sat outside for years with no noticeable effects. Besides, saying it "just needs covering" means you are at least a year away from having to worry about a place to keep it. It took me well over a year to cover and paint mine (granted, I lost a couple of months waiting for weather warm enough to spray paint in my unheated garage). Don't give up yet! Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering. EVERYTHING else is complete. Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a very big BUT) There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I have no where to keep it... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:01 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: filling the tank/was long x-c --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Mike wrote- >you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of >the CG envelope. Dagnab it, my mother always told me never to go outside barefoot when it's cold, and my instructor always told me never to put the airplane away without topping off the tanks. My mother is dead now, God rest her soul, but I still have this thing about topping off with fuel at the end of the day. But I understand (as Edwin, Mike, and the rest of you have most helpfully pointed out)- that we have all of these things as tools that we use to load and operate our machines properly and even as an older dog I can still be taught new tricks. Thanks for the fine discussions. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:28 AM PST US From: "James Dallas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: filling the tank/was long x-c Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:58:46 -0600 Oscar, The thing about filling the tanks is to keep condensation out of the fuel. But if you sump your tanks before fight like your supposed to it shouldn't be a problem....as long as the sumps are at the lowest point. The small amounts that you may not get are caught in the gaskolator (not sure about the proper spelling)before it goes to the carb. A lot of airplanes manufactured today may have four to six seats but if you top them off may only be able to legally take off with one person on board. Me personally, I would rather take off with partial fuel, light load and go play. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: filling the tank/was long x-c --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Mike wrote- >you'll fly with 10 gallons instead of 16 so she's in a nice meaty part of >the CG envelope. Dagnab it, my mother always told me never to go outside barefoot when it's cold, and my instructor always told me never to put the airplane away without topping off the tanks. My mother is dead now, God rest her soul, but I still have this thing about topping off with fuel at the end of the day. But I understand (as Edwin, Mike, and the rest of you have most helpfully pointed out)- that we have all of these things as tools that we use to load and operate our machines properly and even as an older dog I can still be taught new tricks. Thanks for the fine discussions. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:34 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: filling the tank/was long x-c Pieters, This recent discussion of fuel tanks and CG has activated my old wheels to turn. No doubt that a Piet type aircraft is difficult to trim, CG, with a forward fuse tank from full to 3 gallons, never let it get below that. NX311CC, Repiet, is sitting in the shop with a completed fuse and center section. Has an 18 gal alum fuel tank forward to firewall. So, if I takeoff from Shreveport to Brodhead will full tank and 190 lb Corky in the rear pit it should fly great with a slight back pressure needed on the stick for the first hour. By the time I land in Arkadelphia I will probably be healing the stick with forward pressure. These assumptions are based upon experience of Nathan Moss flying NX41CC. So, the WB can be controlled with the amount of fuel in the tank relative to the weight of the rear pit pilot. So, if I were to build a center section alum tank of 14.8 gal capacity it would be very simple and convenient and pleasant flying on any given situation knowing how much fuel to have in forward tank for balance AND extended cruise. No elaborate plumbing required just a Y at the gascolator and another line cutoff within pilot reach for the wing tank. When I add fuel in Arkadelphia and all points nawth to Brodhead just merely top off the wing tank. Now, in addition with 32+ gals there is no limit except the lower back to where you might go. Might even make Beliese and stay with the fisherman. Gad!!!!!!! imagine an 8hr leg in a Piet Corky, dreaming in La with his bride ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:19 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal and Vertical stab fittings From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Of course. I was thinking in the fore and aft direction - not vertically. I guess it wasn't much of a problem - I had no problem assembling mine, with no allowances made for fabric thickness there. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Because after covering the top and bottom of the horizontal stab, top of the fuselage under the stab, and the bottom of the fin the fin itself which has the top two rudder hinges in it is going to be sitting higher than it was when everything was bare wood. (By the thickness of four layers of fabric and fabric tape). So your bottom rudder hinge holes don't line up any more (unless you wait until after covering to drill them). ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:07 PM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Vought" ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is > about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering. > EVERYTHING else is complete. > DJ you've hit a nerve. This is the first time I've verbalized this outside of my immediate family, but I'm afraid I waited too late to start my Piet. It's very close to being finished and now I'm in a race with my health. I'm planning to complete the plane then see if I can still declare myself "airworthy". I have a second Piet which is in storage which I have decided to sell. You're right, it is depressing.......Good luck........Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:48 PM PST US From: N321TX@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV Hey, not only would your old man raise hell, but a whole mess of us TACOs and a bunch of them Damned Yankess would be pissed as well. I'd look into renting a hanger 150 miles away in some obscure town. I had a hanger in a small town about 3 hours away that cost me $35 a month! This was in Childress, Texas and the rates have sky-rocketed to $45 a month now (13 years later.) NO WAY IN HELL ARE YOU SELLING THAT AIRPLANE! You won't be living in Mesa all your life and some day you'll be in a part of the country that isn't growing so darned fast... then you would kick yourself for getting rid of your airplane. Seriously, if you had to park the airplane 300 miles away, you could make this work. If you were so darned far away, I'd let you park it here at my place. Something will give, just KEEP THE AIRPLANE. Isn't there an airport in Florence, AZ? If not, try Payson... but don't give up. Maybe I'll build a storage building at Knot-2-Shabby and you can park it here for free. Sterling ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rear cockpit solo From: horzpool@goldengate.net --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: horzpool@goldengate.net Oscar This is a piddly point, but the min fuel spec if you are using an A-65 is about 5 gal. Dick N.> > insofar as it will be nearly impossible to overload the airplane, but does > indicate some care is required to keep the aft C of G in range. With 170 > lb. pilot and 210 lb. passenger, minimum fuel (2 gal.), and min. oil, it's > at maximum aft limit but still 183 lbs. under gross. > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:44 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV <200501120756.j0C7uev32241@matronics.com> <5.1.1.5.2.20050112120337.01b15670@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> <000501c4f8cd$88e6d5b0$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie DJ, Do what I did when I bought the Taylorcraft. Get out the sectional and draw a circle at the longest distance that you feel like driving to go flying. Then call the owner of every farm strip that is in the circle. I made it about 4 before the guy said yes, I could use his old hangar. Also ask the old CFIs about strips that aren't on the sectional. There are a huge number of them here in upstate NY. Dave N36078 '41 BC-12-65 At 12:38 PM 1/12/2005, DJ Vegh wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > >well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is >about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering. >EVERYTHING else is complete. > >Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a >very big BUT) > >There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I >have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year >waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have >moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that. > >So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn >thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking >with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find >something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope. >Nothing... zilch... nada. > >So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a >long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even >mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's >plenty of ramp space available. > >Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill >me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :) > >Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration..... > >I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomo rrow...maybethat'llcheerme >up. > >DJ Vegh ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:38 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV Arizona Pieter, In my short lifetime I've hitch hiked, railroaded, motored and flown over your fair state. In most places there is nothing, I mean nothing. Now is that flat desert so expensive that those 150 waiters couldn't find a little spot somewhere like 10 acres for sale or lease, post flags for a runway, build a few pole sheds and you could build your own waiting list? Maybe America has passed me up but I'll be damned if I would give up because of no hangar space in Mesa and other close places. Anyone with enough guts to drive a Piet through their neighborhood should be able to find it a home in the desert. A Piet doesn't need hay or water. Talk to some dusters for advice. Corky, flying near the bayou in La ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:49 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=0zzZpVHG/8n4bKLkwhuomKVagWwuwL8Z4BHbxDNw4R9TACQMnQAEdTHb0GPjPV6vArrnqHRv9EizbAhJ+BkSBLPCmXre/IiFS6NlCGa9GgVNm94JrQmuBZTnF3k5Z7/itYZSqO37MIBtWHml9VGrlgY9G3Dvm5piCwsDml//DV0= ; From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV DJ, a hanger is really just a luxury. When I was barnstorming (first in the WACO-see attchment-and then in the Bird) I would be away from home base for as much a three months at a time, always moving from one town to another, and rarely ever saw a hanger. Instead, I covered the cockpits and engine with old Army ponchos, all tied down nice and tight and made sure I had plenty of tie-down ropes in place. I carried a set of home-made tiedown anchors for when there was only grass for the plane to sit upon. We weathered out many storms and generally bad weather together, me with a small tent pitched near the plane. The plane got wiped down a lot and flown even more. Rocker box grease, fresh thrown from the engine, makes a great protective layer over the paint to help shed rain-drops off the drum taught fabric. I never really saw any worse for wear and weather by doing this. Folks get used to having a nice warm and dry hanger to keep their pride and joys in, but more planes have sat outside than they have inside a hanger. Don't get me wrong, a hanger is very nice if you have one, but don't get rid of your airplane (and I'm not sure I would drive three hours just to fly) just go to the nearest Army/Navy Surplus store and buy you some "portable hangers." Good luck and hang(er) in there, something will come up sooner or later...it always does. Doc - > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:46 PM PST US From: Rvjengel@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator & rudder hinge brackets I have just started rebuilding a Grega Piet that needs new hinge brackets for the elevators and rudder. Are these available to purchase somewhere or do they have to be built from scratch. Thanks Jerry Engel rvjengel@aol.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:58 PM PST US From: Mark Blackwell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sat in my first Peit today --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell My point was that I knew it could be modified, but I do not pretend to know even close to enough to know what can and can not be changed from plans and still be safe. I would need some fairly significant changes. Raising the height of the wing from the fuselage would be one Id want to have at least some forward vis and that opens the door to many potential problems. So does adding length an width potentially to a fuselage. If a revised set of plans for a big guy were available Id buy them. I didn't mean to start the purist debate. If a set of plans were available that had the alterations made and been reviewed by someone more versed in these matters than myself, Id go that route. Im a pilot not a designer. I just might mistake something that is a big deal for something that isn't and I want to be here to complain when I do not get my social security checks. Any airplane, even an aircraft as simple as a Piet can and will bite if not treated with respect. For that matter any airplane that has survived and thrived as long as a Piet deserves that anyway. Mark Mark > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:29 PM PST US From: "Ken Chambers" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sat in my first Peit today Jack Do you happen to remember your turtledeck dimensions? You mentioned that you raised it a couple of inches - was that across the board for all the turtledecks or did you use some other method of smoothing it out? I ask because I'm about your height - and because I'm crazy about the looks of your airplane. Ken in Austin, who's putting off mountains of work on the hold house to squeeze in a little Piet time. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:27 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" To follwo up on Dave's suggestion to look for every little unknown airport possible, here's a great site with a bunch of places you may have never heard of, updated frequently: Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields Website http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/ Keep the faith... the waiting list here in Melbourne FL (MLB) is about 150+ people long from what I've heard and the idiots running the local airport are working hard to REMOVE half the (now full) T-Hangars and our crosswind runway. That has me considering whether the Piet or Zodiac is the more practical plane... at least a metal plane won't be quite as bad outside here. Of course, with our daily thunderstorms, frequent tornadoes and microbursts, small hail, intense lightning, and the occasional hurricanes don't kill the wooden planes left sitting outside, then the wood rot probably will. Just my opinion, I know some have done this with few problems but it seems like a big gamble for something you've poured years of your life into. There's a Fly Baby bipe down at Valkaria that has been sitting outside, it looks ROUGH. Dunno what it looked like before, but it sure looks like a plane that's been stored outside for a long time. Arizona is probably at least better for outside storage. I know of a wooden-winged biplane that came apart in mid air recently, nearly killing the pilot, due to being stored outdoors for only two years in the Miami area... the whole spar was rotted through from moisture that had condensed or collected inside the wing... it wasn't found when the new owner bought the plane (which had been built by an Oshkosh-winning craftsman, the original construction was excellent and the design was not an issue... it was all from improper storage.) and after 11 months and 250 hours of acro, it finally let go. High price to pay for not having a hangar available. The other side of the coin is that apparently, the companies that build and operate T-Hangars have to make their money back in about 7 years for it to be economically viable for them to do (something to do with the duration of their construction loans or taxes I suppose.) Since the construction boom has doubled the price of steel lately, they would have to charge something like $900 a month to make any money, so therefore, they don't have any incentive to build since nobody would sign up. At least that's what our EAA chapter was told by a guy who had spent considerable time researching our situation here. Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: update on N74DV > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > well.... here's the story. It's quite depressing really. N74DV is > about 90% complete. Just needs a cowling, ailerone cables run and covering. > EVERYTHING else is complete. > > Really this thing could be done in a few months time.... BUT (and this is a > very big BUT) > > There is no point in me finishing this bird right now. Once it's done I > have no where to keep it. All the local airports around here have 7+ year > waiting lists for hangars. I'm 5 yrs into the list at one airport and have > moved from #150 in the list to #40. Still several years away on that. > > So I've reached a point where I have lost all motivation to get this damn > thing finished.... I'm so frustrated. I've canvassed the airports talking > with hangar tenants in the past couple months and I really thought I'd find > something... even someone to let me share hangar space... but nope. > Nothing... zilch... nada. > > So it looks like N74DV is gonna be sitting for a while.... and it could be a > long while. I know this will comeas a shock to most of you but I've even > mildly entertained selling the project and getting a spam can as there's > plenty of ramp space available. > > Although that would likely never happen as my father would absolutley kill > me if I sold this project.... ha! 30yrs old and still afraid of dad. :) > > Anyhow... I just had to vent off some frustration..... > > I'm off to Ireland for a week beginning tomorrow... maybe that'll cheer me > up. > > DJ Vegh > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:12 PM PST US From: "Todd & Sarah Baslee" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sat in my first Peit today Clear DayHi guys, I sat in a Pietenpol for the first time in Brodhead and found it at first quite interesting. I am 6' 4.5" and weighed 240 lbs. Getting into the Piet for the first time was a challenge. However, I made it. Bill Rewey was kind enough to give me my first ride in a Piet and later explained that he made some modifications to the original (longer & wider). He has documented all of his work and, I believe, he has some of his documentation and recommendations for sale - not at a very high price. My friend, Greg Bacon, recently purchased Mountain Piet. I found getting into it quite easy. I also fit quite well. The only problem that I have encountered with the Piet and my largeness, is the windscreen. While flying, my face is above the windscreen which can cause communication problems and the such (a few bugs in the teeth). DJ, When I read your posting I was very surprised. Seeing your website and reading your posts on this site has really encouraged me. Just because there is no space available now doesn't mean that something, somewhere is not going to open up soon. Just keep up the work and encouraging us newbie's with your posts and your website updates. Todd Baslee