---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/22/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - Re: Ohio Weather Prediction (Clif Dawson) 2. 05:22 AM - Pietenpol Tools (TBYH@aol.com) 3. 05:26 AM - Re: Saw dust is Flying (PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com) 4. 06:10 AM - sawdust (DOUGLAS BLACKBURN) 5. 06:32 AM - interesting picture site for a snowy afternoon (walt evans) 6. 07:34 AM - Re: Saw dust is Flying (Rick Holland) 7. 08:15 AM - Tool Advice and Aeropoxy (Chad Johnson) 8. 08:21 AM - Re: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area (DJ Vegh) 9. 08:44 AM - Re: prop size (Richard Navratil) 10. 10:17 AM - Re: Saw dust is Flying (Galen Hutcheson) 11. 10:46 AM - cruise speed and fabric work (Oscar Zuniga) 12. 11:04 AM - The Last Original (Mike Luther) 13. 11:44 AM - Re: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area (Mike Volckmann) 14. 06:57 PM - Re: cruise speed and fabric work (Richard Navratil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:49 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Weather Prediction --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Blame the Ruskies, we just wave what we don't need on through. They couldn't get us with ICBM's....... :-) :-) Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > >> We have a special shippment coming to ya'll on Sunday direct from our > neighbors in Canada to Louisianna so don't get too comfortable. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:55 AM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Tools Hi Chad! I started building my Piet back in November and have the fuselage pretty well framed up and am working on the turtledeck stringers. One of the most useful tools for me have been the electric, laser-guided miter saw that my wife got me for Christmas a couple years ago -- I told her I wanted to do some cove molding around the house, which I did. Of course, I was also thinking a little more long term, if you get my drift! It has been very useful in accurately cutting all the fuselage uprights and crossbraces with all those different angles. Obviously you can make all those cuts with a good sharp hand saw, too, but if you can get an electric laser-guided miter saw, you won't be disappointed. (Hey, if laser-guided is good enough for Al Queda, it's good enough for us Piet builders, too!) A bench vise is good too for when you do need/want to make hand saw cuts. I also have a hand-me-down table saw that I've been using to cut my spruce into the various dimension strips -- I bought my spruce in 20-foot long 6-inch wide, 1-inch thick planks from McCormick's Lumber in Madison, WI. Amazingly I still have all my fingers -- as originally attached. The docs can do miracles now and reattach all kinds of various body parts, but I'd just as soon not go through that exercise -- besides, it would set back the building schedule! I also went to an auction last summer and picked up a like-new combination belt sander/disc sander for about $40. That has been very useful for smoothing parts and taking off just a little to get a perfect fit. At the same auction and for about the same money I picked up an also like-new Craftsman table router -- I haven't used it yet but am thinking I will use it for forming my own vertical and horizontal stabilizer leading edge material. Other than that, a large T-square and carpenters chalk line for keeping everything square and for laying down straight when drawing out the fuselage sides on the bench. The top longeron has to be perfectly straight. I also picked up a neat little wood chisel -- it's not only a chisel but on one side it is a flat rasp and the opposite side is a rounded rasp -- handy for trimming off little blobs of epoxy that may drip here and there and that you may miss when wiping up excess. (My wife told me I should just leave that big C-clamp that accidentally got glued to the fuse top a week ago!) Also lots of sandpaper and various blocks of wood to use as sanding blocks. Lots of light -- I had a couple fluorescent shop lights in the basement where I'm building the fuse. These were up by the firewall end, with a regular light bulb down by the tail. But I picked up another shop light at Home Depot for about $10 and hung that one over the tail end -- what a difference! My feeling is that you can't have too much light (especially at my age-- I didn't used to need reading glasses until I built that darn ship model a couple years ago!) A handheld sabre/jig saw for cutting out large plywood pieces. I find that a blade for cutting sheet metal works well for cutting aircraft ply without splintering the backside all to heck. I also have a small bench jig saw which come in handy. I don't have a band saw, but that would serve very well in a wide variety of uses -- that's probably the one saw I really should have...but I've done okay without so far... Have fun building! And stay tuned to this list -- I've learned a lot from the real experts on this list! Great bunch of folks! Anyway, I hope this helps. Fred B. La Crosse, WI PS -- Still snowing here this fine Saturday morning -- not a good day to go out but that's okay 'cause I'm building my Piet in the basement! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:17 AM PST US From: PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Saw dust is Flying Re: 'handy' tools, A sander, bench mount, nice to have a belt/disc model A band saw A drill press and a hand type electric drill Note, these are not absolute requirements, but sure do make life easier and more enjoyable micrometer (1" is fine); and an inside/outside caliper,(plastic one is OK). These are what I call 'tools of precision' are usefull in setting up a saw and other tools. Have at it, the fun ( and tears) are yet to come). Lou Larsen Sill going on a 9+ year Piet project ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:49 AM PST US From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" Subject: Pietenpol-List: sawdust Chad, > There will always be naysayers in anything you or anyone else does. That does not matter. What matters is that you follow your dream at your pace. I have also been "at it" for about four years. Since I started I have moved, my wife has had many health issues ect. Today I am finishing up the drywall hanging in the garage at our new place. I have all the fuse wood, all the rib wood, all the tail group wood, and I have my Corvair engine all tore down. Part of my plan hasalways been a clean place to work and a place for everything. If you build clean, it just seems to me you will end up with a safer plane. Not to say a dirty/unkept shop is going to produce an unsafe plane, but for me I want it all to be organized. I've always been that way. Good Luck, and congratulations on getting started. 909-790-0530 > > Doug Blackburn > Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn > Yucaipa California > www.inlandsloperebels.com > W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782 > www.flycorvair.com 20 > after years of dreaming and "saying" I am going to start building a piet, I actually built my table today. Chad Johnson, McPherson Kansas. Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn Yucaipa California www.inlandsloperebels.com W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782 www.flycorvair.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:18 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: interesting picture site for a snowy afternoon Alot are aviation related., http://www.micom.net/oops/ do not archive walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:50 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Saw dust is Flying --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland When it comes time to make your metal parts I would add a good bench vice (bending metal fittings and squishing metal tubing) and an angle grinder (around $40 to $50) for cutting metal sheet and tubing (unless you want to spend the money on a metal cutting band saw). On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:25:54 EST, PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com wrote: > > Re: 'handy' tools, > > A sander, bench mount, nice to have a > belt/disc model > A band saw > A drill press and a hand type electric > drill > > Note, these are not absolute requirements, but sure do make life easier > and more enjoyable > > micrometer (1" is fine); and an inside/outside caliper,(plastic one is OK). > These are what I call 'tools of precision' are usefull in setting up a > saw and other tools. > > Have at it, the fun ( and tears) are yet to come). > > Lou Larsen Sill going on a 9+ year Piet project -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:30 AM PST US From: "Chad Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tool Advice and Aeropoxy Thanks for all the advice on tools and building. So far I have most of the tools needed with exception of a band saw. Any opinions or experience with Aeropoxy glue? My wood supplier uses Aeropoxy for his own work, he has it in stock and the cost seems to be the same as T88. Chad ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:51 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Mike, just saw this message.... (still trying to catch up from my vacation) I'll certainly keep it in mind! I'm going to try another round of hangar searching at CHD and FFZ in a few weeks. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Volckmann" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area > DJ, > I currently have a hanger at the Goodyear Airport > (GYR) and work at Glendale Airport (GEU) with a little > work rearranging my hanger we could possibly store > your pietenpol in my hanger until you bubbled to the > top of the Falcon Field (FFZ) hanger list. I can be > reached at 602-819-8359 if you want to talk. > > Mike ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:33 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop size Cliff I have "Propeller Making For The Amateur" by Eric Clutton. Thanks, I'll take a look at that web site. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop size Which book? Here's an interesting little program to play with; http://www.nicon.org/chapter328/PropDesign/ Clif ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:25 AM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=JtbYwPZJrB4SXmXPGc6K9MQOUSMIRcMnFErnJX6FFQNgvKNQeCNsvlleU8ef91J134MfbakLbjrvP3PxehQ3digSD7PAmQC2TBX8/d4DFAULRY5vZS4rthS/lkel9LO43EFaoibEVBsyNly9eFLgnAZQNu/5TvHInN3LmVDe1ec= ; From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Saw dust is Flying --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Chad, The others told you most of the tools you will need to build with. You will also need to buy a gas welding rig (I bought one at auction real cheap) to build your metal parts with. The most useful tools I have used were the table saw for cutting out my wood pieces (I bought spruce from the local lumber yard, 2 X 6 planks in different length, to save tons of money, the band saw, the drill press, the miter saw, and the bench sander. The other tools are all hand tools that most everyone owns. Once you get your jigs set up, things will go quickly and you will see progress. Best luck and have fun. Doc ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:38 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: cruise speed and fabric work --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" To answer one of Dick Navratil's questions that didn't seem to get answered, the Corvair-powered Piets (well, the ones with the William Wynne conversion and no blower motor) seem to cruise a bit faster than the A-65 and Ford powered ones. Not to say that they are comfortable cruising at those higher speeds, but that they can do so with the extra horsepower. William's plane would climb out at the airspeed that my A-65 Aircamper cruises at (65 MPH), and would cruise at 100 MPH if you firewalled it and didn't care about the ride or the fuel consumption. I think he normally cruised it at 70-75 MPH which was comfortably throttled back. Certainly the climb in the Corvair Aircampers far exceeds the 100 feet per hour stated for that vintage Pietenpol in the museum-! And as long as everybody is hunkered down, snowed in, blown out, frozen in place, mudslidden, flooded, or otherwise grounded- I'd like to know how big a deal fabric covering is. I've watched the Stits video (years ago) and it doesn't seem too difficult, but have never done it. I don't have the Poly-Tak, the dopes, iron, or the other stuff (but can scrounge or borrow what I need)... just want to make sure it's not too difficult to do myself. I need to re-cover the vertical stabilizer and also patch a few spots in the fuselage here and there. Thanks for any comments. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:37 AM PST US From: Mike Luther Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Last Original Hi Guys: Just want to thank JFord for the pictures of the 2003 Brodhead get-together. I still carry a 1992 copy of the "last original", so that I can show it to people that are not familar with a Piet. That particular picture was my reason for deciding to build a Piet. Before yesterday I had never seen any close-ups or detail pictures. The Data Plate picture of the "last original" was interesting cause of the info on the Empty Weight (641 lbs.) I am quilty of building my plane 30lbs "fat", but when I subtract the weight of my luxury items I don't feel so bad. Also want to thank Mike Cuy for the 2004 Brodhead pictures. I haven't been to the lower 48 in over two years and those pictures really make me want to "get er done" and show up with my Piet for the annual get-together. Makes me hungry for Bratwurst just thinking about it. Then my mind wonders if there is a good recipe for Moose or Caribou Bratwurst. The current weather here in Anchorage makes me grateful that I am not in Fairbanks on a clear winter night, or in Kodiak during one of their 39 degree 40mph winter rainstorms. Or how about my two friends, Matt and James, who survived their Bering Sea crabbing days. Working on my Piet in a heated garage, that's the life. Mike Luther NX1953M Anchorage Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:26 AM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=uP9bENGXY5I4LqP66nYXGzUDHEegCvOwquIScnXte5noYxN0FCn5JOWUJmzriLJJVc75S5PtW+7Nb4PWHvp3ILwvOea6R8352uWPMdIKHPNdXxU5ikWaLmuucHBFJq/Cn6u5uOWivHzfIeBTx1/mSTfMFkzVT8iU0F0swxxOrVQ= ; From: Mike Volckmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hanger space in the Phoenix Area --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike Volckmann DJ, I understand GYR is a long way from the east valley. My mother lives just north of IWA. Currently I am considering starting either a Fokker Dr-1 replica or a Pietenpol. Probably end up being the Dr-1 replica. Mike --- DJ Vegh wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > Mike, > > just saw this message.... (still trying to catch up > from my vacation) I'll > certainly keep it in mind! I'm going to try another > round of hangar > searching at CHD and FFZ in a few weeks. > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Volckmann" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:01 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hanger space in the Phoenix > Area > > > > DJ, > > I currently have a hanger at the Goodyear Airport > > (GYR) and work at Glendale Airport (GEU) with a > little > > work rearranging my hanger we could possibly store > > your pietenpol in my hanger until you bubbled to > the > > top of the Falcon Field (FFZ) hanger list. I can > be > > reached at 602-819-8359 if you want to talk. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cruise speed and fabric work --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" Thanks Oscar for that input, that's exactly what was looking for. I'll have 115 hp but I dont want to cruise too fast, but after having flown the Piet on some hot days, I need to climb at better than 100 feet per hour. I have received some warnings from guys in my EAA chapter that the stall characteristics will drastically change with more hp and stol prop. Now for your question. I really enjoyed to covering. It isn't hard at all. Do the tail feathers first of course. It goes so fast that it's almost a let down, You spent so much time getting to that point and in no time it's done. The rib stitching is the biggest chore. Fabric stretching and applying the tapes are really easy. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: cruise speed and fabric work > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > To answer one of Dick Navratil's questions that didn't seem to get > answered, the Corvair-powered Piets (well, the ones with the William Wynne > conversion and no blower motor) seem to cruise a bit faster than the A-65 > and Ford powered ones. Not to say that they are comfortable cruising at > those higher speeds, but that they can do so with the extra horsepower. > William's plane would climb out at the airspeed that my A-65 Aircamper > cruises at (65 MPH), and would cruise at 100 MPH if you firewalled it and > didn't care about the ride or the fuel consumption. I think he normally > cruised it at 70-75 MPH which was comfortably throttled back. > > Certainly the climb in the Corvair Aircampers far exceeds the 100 feet per > hour stated for that vintage Pietenpol in the museum-! > > And as long as everybody is hunkered down, snowed in, blown out, frozen in > place, mudslidden, flooded, or otherwise grounded- I'd like to know how > big a deal fabric covering is. I've watched the Stits video (years ago) > and it doesn't seem too difficult, but have never done it. I don't have > the Poly-Tak, the dopes, iron, or the other stuff (but can scrounge or > borrow what I need)... just want to make sure it's not too difficult to do > myself. I need to re-cover the vertical stabilizer and also patch a few > spots in the fuselage here and there. > > Thanks for any comments. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > >