Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Peitenpol in Utah (Phillips, Jack)
2. 05:43 AM - Virus (Michael D Cuy)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: Virus (John Ford)
4. 07:41 AM - Re: Peitenpol in Utah (Steve Eldredge)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper (Hodgson, Mark O)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper (DJ Vegh)
7. 01:35 PM - 2 Cyl. opposed Rotax (Michael Fisher)
8. 04:13 PM - Re: Virus (Dave and Connie)
9. 04:55 PM - Re: Virus, Modern Ford Power (Gary Gower)
10. 06:51 PM - leading edge cover (Ralph)
11. 08:58 PM - BRS for Pietenpol (bpjardine@comcast.net)
12. 09:50 PM - Re: BRS for Pietenpol (Les Schubert)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
Hi Brian,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols. Your questions have
already been pretty well answered, but there are a couple of extra
pieces of advice that might be helpful:
1. Buy Mike Cuy's video on building and flying his beautiful
Pietenpol, NX48MC. You can order it directly from Mike at:
Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov I think he charges $20 for it and it
contains a wealth of information, and more importantly, a lot of
INSPIRATION for those days when it seems you will never finish this
project. In addition to his video, Mike is a regular contributor to
this list and is a genuinely nice person, great builder and great pilot
2. If you don't already own them, buy the 4 Tony Bingelis Books
from EAA (I just naturally assume you are a member of the EAA - if not,
you should be). Those four books, The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane
Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on Engines
cover 95% of what you will need to know to build this airplane. I also
found helpful the EAA's book on Aircraft Welding, and Aircraft
Construction Techniques: Wood
3. This is not a kitplane. There are good points and bad points
about this. The good points include such things as being able to modify
the design to fit your personal needs, and choose materials based on
your own tastes and budget (there are many Piets flying built from
aircraft grade materials and probably more flyig with lumber yard wood
and hardware store fittings). The bad points are that you will probably
make a lot of scrap pieces during the learning process. I know I did -
I probably made enough parts for nearly 2 complete Pietenpols. However,
remember that the FAA allows us to build our own planes for "Recreation
and Education". The recreation part will become obvious - you will
re-create the same part several times until you get it right :-).
Because it is not a kit you will have to do a lot more thinking than you
would to merely assemble parts made by a manufacturer. The plans have
some mistakes in them, and even when the information is correct, it is
sometimes presented in a way that requires a lot of head-scratching to
understand.
4. Save all your jigs. You never know when you might need them
again. I first flew my Pietenpol last October, and at the end of
November had a partial engine failure which led to a forced landing.
The off-airport landing resulted in some damage to the airframe which
I'm now about halfway through repairing. I am in the process of making
two new ribs for the right aileron and repairing one broken rib in the
right wing. I'm very glad that I kept the jig that I used to make the
original ribs so the new ribs will be identical to the originals.
5. Think through your choices carefully. As you begin to build
your airplane there are a number of fundamental choices to be made
(again, different form the typical kitplane): The basic choices every
Piet builder faces are:
a. What engine to use? If you buy the supplemental plans from Don
Pietenpo, you will have enough information to use either a Ford Model A,
a Corvair, or a Continental A-65. Any other choice will require more
work to develop yoru own engine mount design (not that this is too
difficult)
b. Long fuselage or short?
c. One-piece wing or 3-piece wing?
d. Split axle gear or straight axle?
e. Wire wheels or normal aircraft wheels
f. Fuel tank in the nose or in the centersection?
In addition to this forum, good information can be found by attending
Sun'n'Fun or Oshkosh for basic woodworking, fabric work, welding, and
metalworking skills., and certainly if possible try to attend the
Pietenpol fly-in at Brodhead Wisconsin. There you will find a good
array of Pietenpols displaying all the choices mentioned above (and
more) and you can see first hand which choices appeal to you
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and
I was interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger
II several years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last
year. I like the looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few
questions I hope you all could help me with. 1. Where is the best place
to obtain full sets of plans and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be
wise to buy a plane that someone else has started? 3. Does anyone know
of any planes started/unfinished for sale. 4. Can you buy a kit that
includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know if there are any
builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like to sit in
one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I have
read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be
be tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do
they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on
this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
Message 2
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Guys-- I rec'd a message from Mike Fisher telling me that his computer is
detecting
a Beagle virus. I did not respond telling him to click his 'help' button
but gave him the
following response:
Mike-- Gosh I'm very sorry that your system shows a virus attached to my
attachments. I called our computer support staff and my Norton anti-virus
software
was last updated on 1/31/05 so they say that things should be fine. I
haven't had any others e-mail me about sending a virus but if I do I'll
know there is something our people have missed. My apologies to you !
Mike
Mike-- is this the message you got or did it just say 'click on help'
? Thanks, Mike
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Many viruses (virii?) spoof the sender name and address, so the infected
message almost certainly came from someone else who simply has your
address in their address book. I get infected messages that are
supposedly from myself a couple of times a month even. If your dats are
up to date and you're running a firewall, then you're probably okay...
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov Wednesday, February 02, 2005 8:42:50 AM
>>>
Guys-- I rec'd a message from Mike Fisher telling me that his computer
is
detecting
a Beagle virus. I did not respond telling him to click his 'help'
button
but gave him the
following response:
Mike-- Gosh I'm very sorry that your system shows a virus attached to
my
attachments. I called our computer support staff and my Norton
anti-virus
software
was last updated on 1/31/05 so they say that things should be fine. I
haven't had any others e-mail me about sending a virus but if I do I'll
know there is something our people have missed. My apologies to you
!
Mike
Mike-- is this the message you got or did it just say 'click on help'
? Thanks, Mike
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Peitenpol in Utah |
I'm still here! I got behind in my reading and just had to cut 700
messages and start over. Brian, and others have a standing invitation
to come to look at my airplane. It isn't the beauty queen some say it
is, but it is airworthy and I fly it a lot during the summer, and on the
warm days in winter. I have 300 hours on it now and have been flying it
since 1997. There is no cheaper way in to the sky- and people dig the
old time looks, and sound. Add smoke and you have got a head turner
everywhere you go. (It just takes a while to get there!) I've still
got lots of Piet caps if anyone wants one. Thinking of heading back to
Brodhead this year again. Working on my Stinson 108-2. Both wings are
covered. Fuse is next. We started an EAA chapter a year ago that has
about 25 people attending every month.
There is another piet project on the airport that has been sitting for a
year or two since purchase from another party.
Steve E
Spanish Fork, UT
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bpjardine@comcast.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peitenpol in Utah
Hi everyone,
My name is Brian and I am new to this group. I live in Clinton, Utah and
I was interested in a Peitenpol for a new project. I had a Challenger
II several years ago and my brother and I finished a Sixchuter PPC last
year. I like the looks, and construction of the Air camper. I have a few
questions I hope you all could help me with. 1. Where is the best place
to obtain full sets of plans and assembly instructions? 2. Would it be
wise to buy a plane that someone else has started? 3. Does anyone know
of any planes started/unfinished for sale. 4. Can you buy a kit that
includes the needed wood sizes? 5. Does anyone know if there are any
builders, or Piets in Utah? I am 210lb pilot, I would like to sit in
one to get the feel if I am going to invest the time and money. I have
read a lot regarding the plane and the different engines guys have used.
Would a C-90 be to large with my weight, or would a Continental A-65 be
be tter suited? Are the Rotax engines too light for the plane and do
they have enough torque at the lower RPMS? I'm sure if I get started on
this project I will have many questions. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
Brian Jardine
Clinton, Utah
801-499-6210
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
EXCEPT that it cuts into your full-scale version's building time. I
bought some beautiful plans for a 1/4 scale Piet model over a year ago,
looked them over carefully, and decided to just start building the one
I'll fly from inside. I'll keep those plans and the two R/Cs which are
"flying" a few inches below the ceiling of my back porch, for the day I
lose my ability to fly full-scale. OR maybe I'll come across a good R/C
instructor distinct from the expert who wrecked my first plane!
Mark Hodgson
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
ahhhh.... things are different here in AZ. when the temps in the shop
during summer time reach 117 it's pretty much unbearable to be in there.
sooooo.... it's the perfect time to build models inside.
I wish our weather wasn't so severe that I COULD build for 12 mos.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Japanese Pietenpol Air Camper
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
>
> EXCEPT that it cuts into your full-scale version's building time. I
> bought some beautiful plans for a 1/4 scale Piet model over a year ago,
> looked them over carefully, and decided to just start building the one
> I'll fly from inside. I'll keep those plans and the two R/Cs which are
> "flying" a few inches below the ceiling of my back porch, for the day I
> lose my ability to fly full-scale. OR maybe I'll come across a good R/C
> instructor distinct from the expert who wrecked my first plane!
>
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 2 Cyl. opposed Rotax |
2004)
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Fisher <mfisher@gci.net>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
There was a Mike Fisher who was involved in the tests of a two-cylinder
opposed four stroke Rotax engine. Zat you?
Carl,
Thanks for your inquiry. I am not the Rotax Mike Fisher. There are
quite a few of us around. One reason 2 Cyl. opposed engines are not more widely
employed is the large change in crankcase volume caused by both pistons moving
in and out at the same time. The large crankcases on successful versions
of this design, such as the BMW motorcycle, are there for a reason.
Some years ago, Franklin came out with a 60HP 2 Cyl, horizontally opposed,
certified engine that would be okay for a Piet with a long mount. These
unloved powerplants and parts are available at low cost. The Pietenpol likes
a long, slow turning prop that moves a lot of air at low speed. The Model A Fords
and A65 Continentals are better at this than the direct drive Corvairs, Franklins
and various modern automobile engines.
Cordially,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
Message 8
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<5.1.1.5.2.20050202083854.010c1a78@popserve.grc.nasa.gov>
A lot of virus programs pick an address from the address book to use for
the From field.
Because most users don't know how to read mail headers this fools
recipients. Mike is most likely not the sender.
To defend yourself for cheap:
Get a copy of AVG Antivirus from Grisoft.com. Free, updates regularly, and
works.
Get a copy of ZoneAlarm from zonelabs.com. Free. Toss the Microsoft
firewall and use this one (or a for money one).
If you have cable or DSL get a router of some sorts. Set the password to
something other than factory default. $10 after rebate will usually get
one with wireless capablities. If you get the wireless version turn on
WEP, set the SSID to a long string, and set ot to only allow specific
hardware addresses.
Use a mail tool other than Outlook. Every script kiddy want to break
outlook. They don't go for Eudora (free from Qualcomm at Eudora.com). Yes
you will give up some features.
With all of this we actually had one intruder get past the router and kick
the security on the computers. That is as far as he got.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
I have been at this computer thing for a living for only about 25 years......
At 08:42 AM 2/2/2005, Michael D Cuy wrote:
>Guys-- I rec'd a message from Mike Fisher telling me that his computer is
>detecting
>a Beagle virus. I did not respond telling him to click his 'help' button
>but gave him the
>following response:
>
>Mike-- Gosh I'm very sorry that your system shows a virus attached to my
>attachments. I called our computer support staff and my Norton anti-virus
>software
>was last updated on 1/31/05 so they say that things should be fine. I
>haven't had any others e-mail me about sending a virus but if I do I'll
>know there is something our people have missed. My apologies to you !
>
>Mike
>
>Mike-- is this the message you got or did it just say 'click on help'
>? Thanks, Mike
>
>do not archive
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265 - Release Date: 1/31/2005
Message 9
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=ZkOgqwuvr0S8XY30VQ1C6PsaoLfJOj8KHvE+y9iYZlu/zndGyl49PEgKRKxr3GYdcwrVyiPv4CFsWziZdvP7XlgHPD6QTdpmWbjglvM/OaKP2gupxw1ZhQyRhye06PUA0R2QDCwYBzcRI/R/pb/vbgzXJznlLVumcRTVWLTEkjs=
;
| Subject: | Re: Virus, Modern Ford Power |
Hi Mike,
This virus - whorms are kind of out of control, they use the address book of any
e-mail and beguin "working" there are some ways to handle them:
Once in a while (about every week) scan your drive to "clean" it from virus/whorms.
Also have a spam filter and delete all the mails with a 21 to about 50 kb attachmentes.
Never open any attachment that is not scaned or come from a secure email...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Michael Fisher <mfisher@gci.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Fisher
Piet List Members,
I keep getting lengthy, virus infected attachments from Michael D. Cuy to my personal
mailbox. When I asked Mr. Cuy to disinfect the attachment of the "W32Beagle.AY@mm"
virus to reassure my very picky Norton utility, he responded by advising
me to seek assistance by clicking on the "HELP" button.
Perhaps this is not the Michael D. Cuy who is a member of the Pietenpol List. Does
anyone know anything about this?
On a more interesting note, many Pieters are airframe guys; a smaller number are
engine guys. A few like D. J. Vegh and Larry Harrison are both. I am primarily
an engine guy who has a 116 cubic inch Ford Escort engine hanging, inverted,
in a mockup Pietenpol Scout mount on my garage wall. It is currently belt-driven
by a large electric motor to investigate the pressure and scavenge oiling
and fuel injection systems. The truncated oil pan (now on top and no longer a
sump) has a temporary Plexiglas cover through which oil flows can be observed.
Interesting stuff, slow progress, not actively looking for an airframe yet.
Sure would be fun to have it running at Brodhead next July.
Happy landings,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
Message 10
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| Subject: | leading edge cover |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on elrond.itctel.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ralphhsd@itctel.com>
I am looking for some ideas on leading edge covers. 1/16 plywood is not
available in my state and is very expensive to ship as well as buy from
suppliers. I purchased some aluminum valley material to use but can't
figure out how to attach it to the wood. I know there are people who have
used aluminum. Could some one respond as to how the attachment was carried
out. Has anyone used the 6 ply tag board mentioned by Bernard P. in some of
the literature that is available? Would it hold its shape well enough to do
what ever it is supposed to do. It will be hangered at my farm so it won't
be getting wet and at the speed Pietenpols fly and the noise they make, I
can't imagine bird strikes being a problem. Thanks for any information you
are able to share with me.
Ralph
At Raymond
Message 11
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| Subject: | BRS for Pietenpol |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other light
aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used BRS chutes
on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now days. Has anyone
ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic
look, and I don't know if the airframe could take the stress of a chute deployment.
If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane
has been around and flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design.
Has there been any documentation of structural failures or incidents? My
wife has concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't
realize that until the mid 1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have to
resolve her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money.
I am sure you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded
to my first posting. I received lots of valuabl
e info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions.Other light
aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with usedBRS chutes
onthe planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now days. Has anyone
ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take away from the nostalgic look,
and I don't know if the airframe could take thestress of a chute deployment.
If someone has used a chute, where was it attached? Since the plane has been
around and flying for 75 years, needless to say it's an airworthy design. Has
there been any documentation of structural failures or incidents? My wife has
concerns about a plane being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't realize
that until the mid 1900'smost planes were wood and fabric. I have to resolve
her concerns before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money. I am sure
you all have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded to
my first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
Brian
Clinton, UT
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: BRS for Pietenpol |
0B9D0E069F0D@comcast.net>
Brian
I looked long and hard at this decision. BRS has a design worked out that
has been used so if you contact them they can help you with quite a slick
solution. The unit is mounted in the centre section of the wing so a centre
section fuel tank can not be used and a cowl tank will probably be your
choice. I ultimately did NOT buy one only because the freight companies
decided to retire on my shipment. The problem is related to the "rocket"
that launches it is considered hazardous goods. I live in Canada and had no
problem getting the import permits. The freight companies wanted half as
much as the system cost to haul it. So I made a cost benefit/decision and
didn't go with it. Hopefully I will not regret it. The case for it is of
course as ; 1. A broken propeller in flight and the engine parts company
with the plane moving the C of G so far back the plane is un flyable, 2.
Engine failure in a circumstance where a dead stick landing is not likely
survivable. Both these circumstances are rare but people die every year
from them. Structural failure of the plane I would place as a distant 3 rd
risk and I personally feel that is a risk that I can live with but the
first 2 are more probable but remote. Obviously good construction, and
maintenance can improve your luck in this regard.
Now I am sure some will ridicule the idea again as they did when I inquired
about it because; 1. Bernie Pietenpol didn't use one,
2, Good pilots don't need these kind of things. Then again I think you will
notice that there are so seat belt attachment points called out on the
plans either.
So what I am saying is; make the decision that makes you and your wife
comfortable, it is your neck, not somebody else's on the forum
Les
At 04:57 AM 03/02/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Getting started with a Pietenpol project, I have lots of questions. Other
>light aircraft, and ultralight communities I have been involved with used
>BRS chutes on the planes. In fact most ultralights seem to have them now
>days. Has anyone ever installed one on a Piet? I'm sure it would take
>away from the nostalgic look, and I don't know if the airframe could take
>the stress of a chute deployment. If someone has used a chute, where was
>it attached? Since the plane has been around and flying for 75 years,
>needless to say it's an airworthy design. Has there been any documentation
>of structural failures or incidents? My wife has concerns about a plane
>being built out of wood and fabric. She didn't realize that until the mid
>1900's most planes were wood and fabric. I have to resolve her concerns
>before I can dip into the "kitty" for some plane money. I am sure you all
>have been there once or twice. Thanks to all those who responded to my
>first posting. I received lots of valuable info.
>Brian
>Clinton, UT
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