Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:59 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING (W Meier)
2. 07:03 AM - Excellent Pietenpol article.... (Jim Markle)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Excellent Pietenpol article.... (Jim Markle)
4. 08:17 AM - Re: Testing a rib (Hodgson, Mark O)
5. 08:50 AM - Re: Testing a rib (Textor, Jack)
6. 11:40 AM - Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions (Dick Navratil)
7. 12:19 PM - Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions (Michael D Cuy)
8. 01:47 PM - Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions (Borodent@aol.com)
9. 03:07 PM - Re: Testing a rib (Galen Hutcheson)
10. 05:40 PM - Re: Plans ordering trouble (Jimmy Courtney)
11. 06:33 PM - cabane struts (Jeff Hill)
12. 06:48 PM - another Pietenpol article (Ken Anderson)
13. 06:58 PM - Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions (Jake Crause)
14. 09:12 PM - Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions ()
15. 10:51 PM - Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions (Galen Hutcheson)
Message 1
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s=test1; d=earthlink.net;
b=CMwP9oUsSflttw1MdAV3YemgMLx+xif4mqYoK/1ZoEZVCdowRWVNzk7x7W2nC8v2;
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: W Meier <mwmp@earthlink.net>
Regarding the shipping of plywood, I have run into many problems with
shipping. I have shipped plywood with fedex, airborne, ups and a number
of truck lines. anywhere from a few sheets of 1/8" to 20,000 lbs.
When shipping by truck, you are paying for the labor at the dock( to a
point) . It doesn't seem to matter much whether you ship 20 to 200
lbs, the price doesn't change all that much. When shipping full size
sheets via the overnight operations, my loss ratio was as high as 50
% The problem there was how to package light weight ( they DO charge
by the pound) to prevent bending the panel in half. Lately, UPS has
been accepting larger packages...I just shipped a sheet of 3/4" teak ply
that I cut in half lengthwise so the package was 24"x 96" x 3" thick.
The cost of shipping was $105 including insurance. It was classified as
an oversize 3 package and was charged at a 90 lb rate, even though it
only weighed 70lb. If anyone on the Piet list needs plywood shipped,
let me know via PM or phone, not over the list. I will cut panels to
rough size for you to save on shipping.
Cheers
Wayne
Midwest Marine Plywood
651-882-9704
>Time: 06:28:45 PM PST US
>From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty $HIPPING
>
>I guess an appology is due to AS&S. My mindset on the shipping issue was
>probably from my buying things on Ebay where some (not all) vendors charge $30
>to
>send something and when it arrives in the mail, the postage was $6.
>
>I'm off to Alpha Aviation Supply Company in Greenville, TX next week for my
>plywood needs.
>
>AS&S had the best price for the actual purchase of the plywood I am in need
>of, BTW.
>
>S.B.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Excellent Pietenpol article.... |
on eBay....
This is about 10 pages of some of the best Pietenpol info available.....
It's an article by Joe Christy called: "The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy"
I got a copy of it about a year ago or I wouldn't be tellin' you guys about it!!!
:-)
It's great.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item6948497168&ssPageNameADME:B:SS:US:1>
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Excellent Pietenpol article.... |
Ok, the link fails (why do I bother????)
If you're interested, go to eBay and look up item #6948497168
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Excellent Pietenpol article....
on eBay....
This is about 10 pages of some of the best Pietenpol info available.....
It's an article by Joe Christy called: "The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy"
I got a copy of it about a year ago or I wouldn't be tellin' you guys about it!!!
:-)
It's great.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item6948497168&ssPageNameADME:B:SS:US:1>
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Testing a rib |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
Norm,
I recently finished a set of ribs, using T-88, and didn't encounter your
problem. I measured the T-88 using two children's medicine-measuring
syringes I got at CVS. Did the last because I had had one bad curing
experience using the "equal length beads on the paper plate" method, in
which it took about a week rather than 24 hours for the tackiness in one
rib to go away. My sequence was a) install and glue ribs and braces in
the jig, b) glue gussets on one side, c) staple gussets in place, d)
pull out assembly, inspect for squeeze-out on all joints, turn jig
upside down and place rib on back of jig and glue gussets to other side,
e) staple gussets on other side, f) finish by inspecting for squeeze-out
and labelling the date on the rib and the test pieces. I applied glue
to both surfaces always, because early on it looked like that seemed to
ensure good squeeze-out. At first I placed a thin plastic strip between
the prongs of the staple when stapling, then pulled it out after driving
the staple; theory being that that would allow for more T-88 in the
joint. However, I found that that seemed to actually interfere with
good squeeze-out, so I quit doing it, used more pressure on the standard
1/4" staples, and still had satisfactory breaking results with all of
the test joints (one for each little batch of glue which amounts to 2
per regular rib, 3 on end ribs).
HAVING SAID THAT, no one but me has inspected the ribs, which haven't
been assembled into a wing, which has never flown. Take it for what
it's worth. It's just that Resorcinol seems like a huge pain in the
butt, kind of like using nails rather than staples, and the staples
seemed to hold the rib together even during the 30 to 45 minutes when
they were only on one side.
Mark Hodgson
Message 5
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Sounds like a good system Norm. You do a "test" with each rib? Is that
something the feds want?
Jack Textor
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake
The answer to that question has a direct relationship to the tolerance level of
the wife. Winter is a great time for making wing ribs or the tail feathers.
You can make the jig for either and set it up on a dining room table or a washing
machine while working and prop it up in the corner when not working. Winter
is also good for making controll horns and other steel parts. T-88 will cure
at 50 deg. so you can work in the basement also. Also, check out the local
EAA chapter, they may let you set up a work area in the chapter hangar.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions
Hey folks,
Anyone on the list building a Piet in Upstate NY? I just moved to Croghan (near
Watertown) and am setting up shop to start building very soon. I'd love to
meet with / converse with local builders if possible.
On another note; my detached rough lumber 3.5 car garage is not insulated and
as you can imagine it gets VERY cold in there. I kicked the snow off my boots
inside the threshold of the door on the day I moved in and the same clumps of
snow are right were I left them 2 weeks later. What are some ways I can deal
with the cold and still make progress on the structure? I thought of building
a thermostatically controlled heat box made of Styrofoam insulation to set
over the work table and whatever part I'm working on while it cures. Not difficult
to build and I imagine much easier than trying to heat the entire space.
How long would the glue joints need to be maintained in the room temp range
before they can be allowed to be returned to the sub-zero temps? Is it a bad
Idea to let finished parts of the structure be exposed to such temps? FYI right
now my plans are to use either T-88 or the West system. Is there a better
glue for these cold conditions? Thanks in advance!
Jake Crause
www.homebuiltairplanes.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake-- don't know if you are near Brockport but Tom Bowdler is a nice guy
(dentist by profession) who owns an 0-200 Canadian
built Piet and is pretty close to finishing another. There are also TWO
guys who have Ford powered Piets near there too---a
father-in-law, son-in-law combination. I can't recall their names
anymore but they came thru Ohio in 1998 or 99 and after
we had flown a three ship for a while towards Indiana I pulled away from
them and heard later that the one lost his prop and
flipped in a bean field (he and his son were okay) and the father-in-law
landed nearby safely. Last I heard the damaged Piet
was either flying or close to flying again.
Mike C.
At 12:38 AM 2/25/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>Hey folks,
>
>
>Anyone on the list building a Piet in Upstate NY? I just moved to Croghan
>(near Watertown) and am setting up shop to start building very soon. I d
>love to meet with / converse with local builders if possible.
>
>
>On another note; my detached rough lumber 3.5 car garage is not insulated
>and as you can imagine it gets VERY cold in there. I kicked the snow off
>my boots inside the threshold of the door on the day I moved in and the
>same clumps of snow are right were I left them 2 weeks later. What are
>some ways I can deal with the cold and still make progress on the
>structure? I thought of building a thermostatically controlled heat box
>made of Styrofoam insulation to set over the work table and whatever part
>I m working on while it cures. Not difficult to build and I imagine much
>easier than trying to heat the entire space. How long would the glue
>joints need to be maintained in the room temp range before they can be
>allowed to be returned to the sub-zero temps? Is it a bad Idea to let
>finished parts of the structure be exposed to such temps? FYI right now
>my plans are to use either T-88 or the West system. Is there a better
>glue for these cold conditions? Thanks in advance!
>
>
>Jake Crause
>
>www.homebuiltairplanes.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com
Jake
I am in cambridge about 1 hour n of albany, but the real expert is Ed Snyder
hes maybe 1/2 hour n of albany, in Clifton Park. He has a for sale ad in the
current newsletter
Henry Williams
Message 9
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=puuQhuZ5n9USWNQebWrQ71MiPediWY7IURPfTM4dSoyV1xWXWC4q2WRp85ghzvE3I3c1Uocd0yjO/+MczATgcKA0VnrinfORDGaxcOK9/+lvMGSBucTPFI64+OL4uY/k4vC88JNh6AxdUOGSYtmWSjF4pqOyg3y0hSizVq8eORE=
;
| Subject: | Re: Testing a rib |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Norm, these are all good techniques, but I found that
the old fashioned way was the best way for me. I
simply mitered in my caps and diagonals, guled (T-88)
the joints. Layed a gussett over a joint and marked
around it, spread on a good thick layer of glue,
nailed the gussett on with one nail (3/8", 20 guage
A/C) in each diagonal and usually two in each cap.
Just as soon as I had all the gussetts on, I pulled
(gently) the rib out of the jig and layed it on a
sheet of wax paper on the work bench and did the back
gussetts the same way as I did the first side. I like
the nailing, it is quick and easy and doesn't add
enough weight to even be concerened about. I could
build two ribs easily in an evening after work. I
have had my ribs inspected by several tech inspecters
and they all approved them. I even cut all my caps
out of spruce I bought at the local lumber yard, just
like the old days. Hope this helps.
Doc
-
>
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> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
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Message 10
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;
| Subject: | Re: Plans ordering trouble |
Dan,
I bought my plans just over a year ago. Here is the public information that I had
acquired and used to contact Mr. Pietenpol. I hope that this information is
of use to you.
Donald Pietenpol
1604 Meadow Circle S.E.
Rochester, MN 55904
Home Number (507) 289-2436
Home Fax: (507) 289-1279
Happy winds!!!!
Jim Courtney
jbciii5656@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Message 11
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DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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Message 12
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| Subject: | another Pietenpol article |
from AERO-NEWS.NET
Deke Slayton and a Shiny Red Pietenpol
Or How To Fly An Early Sport Plane Through The Window
By ANN Correspondent Rose Dorcey
It was a standing room only crowd at last Saturday's celebration of Monroe County
Aviation History and the Pietenpol Air Camper at the Deke Slayton Memorial
Space and Bike Museum in Sparta (WI). The museum proudly unveiled its latest acquisition,
a fire-engine red Pietenpol Air Camper built from 1932 plans and donated
by Chicago's Don Campbell.
Last June, Campbell visited Sparta, the home of Astronaut Donald K. "Deke" Slayton.
While touring the museum, he casually mentioned to Museum Director Kay Bender
that he owns two Pietenpol's similar to a model he saw hanging there. Always
on the lookout for museum assets, Bender half-jokingly said to Campbell, "If
you have two, you can give one to the museum." Campbell left without giving
a commitment, but in the weeks that followed, he became aware of the many educational
programs the museum offers to both students and adults, and he convinced
himself that donating an aircraft to the museum was the right thing to do.
Campbell contacted Bender and the two came up with an ambitious plan to have the
airplane installed by the end of the year. Bender spoke with Jim Reisinger of
the Monroe County Aviators, who enthusiastically agreed to coordinate the effort
to bring the Pietenpol from the Brodhead (WI) airport to Sparta. After consulting
with engineers to verify that the century-old building could support
the 600-pound aircraft, a semi-truck was secured, along with a couple of dozen
of able-bodied volunteers. The never-flown Pietenpol was partially disassembled
and placed on a truck bound for Sparta.
On a sunny, but more important, calm day in November, the Pietenpol arrived at
200 West Main Street. Sparta Mayor John Gomez waited in a crane to lift the 30-foot
wing to the second floor window of the museum. Perched by the window, about
a dozen members of the Monroe County Aviators guided the wing through the
narrow opening. Meanwhile, another dozen or so volunteers brought the fuselage
up a winding staircase, around corners, and through the museum's constricted
foyer. Mission accomplished; time to reassemble the airplane. The wing and landing
gear were reattached, as was the faux radiator, a measure used to lighten
the load of the plane.
At the February 19 celebration, Master of Ceremonies Jim Reisinger introduced a
host of well-wishers including Sparta Mayor Gomez and a representative from the
neighboring City of Tomah, Chuck Pollard; along with Dennis Hubbard of the
Monroe County Supervisors. Keynote Speaker Tom Thomas (above), Chief, Aviation
Management and Education Section of the Wisconsin Department of Transportation's
Bureau of Aeronautics, said the accomplishment was one that "celebrates fantastic
teamwork while preserving an important piece of aviation history."
The efforts of the Monroe County Aviators, Kay Bender and museum staff and a host
of volunteers and those who gave monetary contributions were heralded by nearly
150 museum guests. The Pietenpol is a showpiece among the museum's diverse
displays. The museum shows a progression of transportation from the first bicycles,
to the Wright Brother's Bicycle Shop; to aviation in Monroe County and
into outer space with Monroe County's own Mercury 7 Astronaut. The role of the
Monroe County Aviators is to preserve the rich aviation history of the county
and to encourage and introduce youth to the opportunities open to them in the
field of aviation.
FMI: www.dekeslayton.com
do not archive
Ken Anderson
piet4ken@mindspring.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Dick: Thanks for the reply. I have given some thought to building the
ribs in the house because it would be very convenient to do so.
However, the reason I'm holding off on building the ribs is kind of a
strange one. I know that being an Army Helicopter Pilot I will be
deployed to the Middle East very soon. Probably within a year or so.
Because of this I have been trying to come up with ways to maintain
progress on the aircraft even though I'll be out of the country. One
way to do that will be to become the first Pietenpol builder (I assume)
to finish all of the wing ribs and metal fittings for the aircraft while
deployed to a war zone. I'll definitely spend some money in shipping
the completed ribs back, but it would give me something to enjoy and
distress with. Don't laugh, having deployed numerous times, I really
think it can be done :D.
Mike: Brockport is quite a hike but not an unrealistic day trip.
Thanks for the tip. **Mr. Bowdler, are you on the list?**
Henry: Cambridge is a bit of hike as well but, if you don't mind, I'd
love to swing over and say hello. How far along are you?
Does anyone know the affects of storing completed parts in very cold
temps will have on the integrity of the wood and glue? Will the
moisture freeze and damage the fibers somehow? Thanks.
Jake
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
Jake,
Wooden airplanes are stored in unheated hangars everywhere.
I've never heard of a problem.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis (my hangar is unheated.....)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions
Does anyone know the affects of storing completed parts in very cold temps
will have on the integrity of the wood and glue? Will the moisture freeze and
damage the fibers somehow? Thanks.
Jake
Message 15
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=wXnPB96FKFxgtjL8P4pbdfyeB5v9NezBNYU8iY6waex75iGDoyv/aPiyIrYW/VMceOvNoSBUYBKy3DOuproYTWubYMOMNLTa1+wUwlah2SyS8nzRGg+2mR4YRNJVzgotuPv8V5urCrgTwNW4gWmNLmTmtx4OTBZtfBMjIdpP+B4=
;
| Subject: | Re: Upstate NY / Cold Conditions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Jake,
Wooden airplanes were flying to the north and south
poles during the late 20's and 30's and, other than
freeze their pilots and passengers, held up very well.
Sometimes the engines were a little cranky though.
Wood is one of the best materials to build airplanes
out of. It is durable, strong for it's weight and
doesn't suffer from fatigue like metal does. You will
find a way to work on your plane in spite of the cold
and some have fun.
Doc (an "Old, Bold pilot...who is still alive :)
--- gcardinal@mn.rr.com wrote:
> Jake,
> Wooden airplanes are stored in unheated hangars
> everywhere.
> I've never heard of a problem.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis (my hangar is unheated.....)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jake Crause
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Upstate NY / Cold
> Conditions
>
> Does anyone know the affects of storing
> completed parts in very cold temps will have on the
> integrity of the wood and glue? Will the moisture
> freeze and damage the fibers somehow? Thanks.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
__________________________________
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/
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