Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
2. 06:19 AM - Fiberglass Gas Tank Question (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
3. 07:16 AM - cabane struts (Jeff Hill)
4. 07:29 AM - ribs (Jeff Hill)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: cabane struts (DJ Vegh)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: cabane struts (Phillips, Jack)
7. 08:29 AM - Re: cabane struts (Larry Ragan)
8. 10:08 AM - Re: cabane struts (Jim Markle)
9. 11:48 AM - Re: cabane struts (DJ Vegh)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: cabane struts (Jim Markle)
11. 11:58 AM - RE Throttle quadrant plans, Thank you all (Andimaxd@aol.com)
12. 12:27 PM - Re: cabane struts (Phillips, Jack)
13. 01:15 PM - Re: cabane struts (DJ Vegh)
14. 01:17 PM - Glue question (Dan Loegering)
15. 01:38 PM - Re: Glue question ()
16. 02:10 PM - Re: Glue question (Galen Hutcheson)
17. 02:32 PM - Re: Lost Foam Gas Tank (gbowen@ptialaska.net)
18. 02:40 PM - Re: Fiberglass Gas Tank Question (gbowen@ptialaska.net)
19. 03:03 PM - Re: Glue question (walt evans)
20. 04:30 PM - Re: Firewall (Pilots4ETW@wmconnect.com)
21. 04:37 PM - Re: Fiberglass Gas Tank Question (Pilots4ETW@wmconnect.com)
22. 04:38 PM - Re: Lost Foam Gas Tank (Pilots4ETW@wmconnect.com)
23. 07:27 PM - Re: Glue question (alexms1@comcast.net)
24. 09:21 PM - Re: cabane struts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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Subject: | Fiberglass Gas Tank Question |
Is there any special epoxy or glass used in the construction of a gas tank?
do not archive
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
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Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Cabanes are the talk of the group lately
I used Carlson Aircraft aluminum struts. www.sky-tek.com
About 75% cheaper than 4130 with only a small penalty in weight.
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hill
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce (or
from Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is rather expensive
now.
Jeff in cool Texas
Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
That's what I used, but I bought it from Dillsburg. Much cheaper and
much faster service.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft
Spruce (or from Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is
rather expensive now.
Jeff in cool Texas
see
Matronics
Forums.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
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Message 8
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Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany) and
sandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15 ounces
each) and strong.
Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air Camper
(if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)
to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane (even
without the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....
Just a thought....
JM
(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets of
everything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably take to
Brodhead this summer.......)
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
That's what I used, but I bought it from Dillsburg. Much cheaper and much faster
service.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce (or
from Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is rather expensive
now.
Jeff in cool Texas
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
it's most certainly more than 50#. I did the calcs a while back when I bought
my aluminum struts. I came up to a few hundred pounds at 1G (remember they
are at about a 60=B0 angle)
If planning for a +5G load you're looking at over 1,000#
Still... wood works and looks cool too.... so long as they are built right... especially
the ends.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany) and
sandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15 ounces
each) and strong.
Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air Camper
(if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)
to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane (even
without the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....
Just a thought....
JM
(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets of
everything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably take
to Brodhead this summer.......)
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
That's what I used, but I bought it from Dillsburg. Much cheaper and much
faster service.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce (or
from Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is rather expensive
now.
Jeff in cool Texas
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
Cabanes...not lift struts....yes, agreed, the lift struts are MUCH more than 50
pounds.....
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
it's most certainly more than 50#. I did the calcs a while back when I bought
my aluminum struts. I came up to a few hundred pounds at 1G (remember they
are at about a 60=B0 angle)
If planning for a +5G load you're looking at over 1,000#
Still... wood works and looks cool too.... so long as they are built right...
especially the ends.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany)
and sandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15 ounces
each) and strong.
Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air
Camper (if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)
to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane
(even without the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....
Just a thought....
JM
(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets
of everything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably take
to Brodhead this summer.......)
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
That's what I used, but I bought it from Dillsburg. Much cheaper and much
faster service.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce
(or from Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is rather expensive
now.
Jeff in cool Texas
Message 11
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Subject: | RE Throttle quadrant plans, Thank you all |
Group:
A special thanks to all (Terry Bowden, Dick Hartwig, Jack NX899JP, and Corky
NX311CC) who replied. I appreciate the constructive help and input
concerning how to make a throttle quadrant!
A note for Oscar Zuniga: I appreciate your comments and pointing out the
obvious, about playing around at the work bench with the scrap bin. I agree,
that would normally be easier and more satisfying. That being said,
I have never made a quadrant. (I enjoy getting different opinions and
learning everything I can before I've made three of them, only to find a better
way.)
All of the planes that I have had the privilege of flying had a vernier knob
on the dash, so I don't know what "feels" good, bad or indifferent. (It's
terrible growing up deprived and underprivileged.)
Last but not least, the majority of the project that I'm working on is 307
miles northwest of where I currently live. (That makes it damned hard to
determine just what the throw or travel is going to be!)
So, in my defense,
I did need some stinkin' plans (and I'm not an engineer!!) -- I'm just
playing with you Oscar, good luck with 41CC !!
Hope to see all of you on July 22nd...
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
Do Not Archive
Message 12
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|
DJ -
I think you are talking Lift struts, while Jim is talking Cabanes. The cabanes
see very little lift load in flight - essentially just whatever lift the centersection
develops because the lift struts attach at almost the center of the
main wing panels and carry virtually all the lift loads generated by the wings.
However, the roll wires put a considerable compression load on the cabanes,
and any rolling maneuvers put loads on them eiither tensile or compressive, depending
one which side of the airplane and which direction it is rolling.
I can also tell you from personal experience - when you are making a forced landing
and hit a dirt bank with the wingtip, the centersection and cabane struts
do feel some stress. My roll wires are now slack on one side from the fittings
at the top of the cabanes bending due to the load imposed on them. I'm going
to have to straighten those fittings as part of the rebuild of NX899JP. Having
finally assessed all the damage incurred, I can truthfully say, this is a
STOUT airframe. I would hate to think what this repair would have cost to a
Cessna. As it is, I'm getting it back in the air for somewhere around $1,000
and $475 of that is in heat treating the new axle.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
it's most certainly more than 50#. I did the calcs a while back when I bought
my aluminum struts. I came up to a few hundred pounds at 1G (remember they
are at about a 60=B0 angle)
If planning for a +5G load you're looking at over 1,000#
Still... wood works and looks cool too.... so long as they are built right... especially
the ends.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim <mailto:jim_markle@mindspring.com> Markle
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany) and
sandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15 ounces
each) and strong.
Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air Camper
(if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)
to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane (even
without the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....
Just a thought....
JM
(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets of
everything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably take to
Brodhead this summer.......)
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, <mailto:jphillip@alarismed.com> Jack
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
That's what I used, but I bought it from Dillsburg. Much cheaper and much faster
service.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce (or from
Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is rather expensive now.
Jeff in cool Texas
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
ooops my bad
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Cabanes...not lift struts....yes, agreed, the lift struts are MUCH more than
50 pounds.....
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
it's most certainly more than 50#. I did the calcs a while back when I bought
my aluminum struts. I came up to a few hundred pounds at 1G (remember
they are at about a 60=B0 angle)
If planning for a +5G load you're looking at over 1,000#
Still... wood works and looks cool too.... so long as they are built right...
especially the ends.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany)
and sandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15
ounces each) and strong.
Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air
Camper (if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)
to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane
(even without the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....
Just a thought....
JM
(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets
of everything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably
take to Brodhead this summer.......)
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
That's what I used, but I bought it from Dillsburg. Much cheaper and much
faster service.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
How many guys have used the steel streamlined tubing from Aircraft Spruce
(or from Wicks) for the cabane struts? This is the stuff that is rather expensive
now.
Jeff in cool Texas
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
Getting ready to purchase some wood and start cutting. I have decided to start
on the wing ribs as my first project and was wondering if anyone out there has
a rough guestimate on how much T-88 I should start out with? Would a quart
kit suffice, or should I go for the 1/2 gallon right off the bat... Now just
waiting for the plans to show up!
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Dan, I went for the smaller bottles, it makes it easier to handle and
keeps it fresh.
Jack Textor
Message 16
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|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=oVucI4CzT7M6/EHkj3nbp73APu/5S+L03zWSaIO79X1rWesv1CZ68bdTvV+S4GsbIEJlySMbdDGuLvb3XSuK5f8446h+tOfE0F22i+oaEjAaDstB9iiiBKJWgloWOKaguwMwXHWGoNcWthUTQMrJi25Wgtq0i2V2kPY/Skc1Qmk=
;
Subject: | Re: Glue question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Dan, I went with the quart bottles. The stuff goes
pretty quickly, but not so much on the ribs. They are
also easier to handle. I'm on my 4th set now. There
is a tip I found very helpful in dispensing the stuff.
I bought some 2 ton epoxy from Walmart ($1.97 each)
and when I used the glue and emptied the syringes the
stuff comes in, I cleaned the syringes out with
acetone real well and then dried them with a clean
cloth inside and then fill them with the T-88. I used
several of them at one time. This makes dispensing
the glue (1:1) real easy. I also used the blister
pack (and every blister pack I could get my hands on)
to mix the stuff. Hope this helps. I also made my
glue sticks out of short pieces of capstrip sanded
down on the bench sander to a chisel shape. This
worked real well in spreading the glue.
Doc
rough guestimate on how much T-88 I
> should start out with? Would a quart kit suffice,
> or should I go for the 1/2 gallon right off the
> bat...
>
> Dan Loegering
> Fargo, ND
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Message 17
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Subject: | Lost Foam Gas Tank |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
I use hot melt glue to hold the various foam blocks together. You can hot
wire cut or hand shape the blocks. The glue will dissolve just like the
polystryrene foam with a solvent wash after you've cut the mold apart, for
rebonding.
Gordon Bowen
Message 18
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Subject: | Fiberglass Gas Tank Question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
A good tight weave like 7781 will make a good tank, plus it's a satin weave
which makes the compound curves and corners more easily formed. I think
any epoxy will work, but Derakane (epoxy based vinyl ester) has a better
chemical resistance plus you work it just like polyester or bondo, (just
add a dab of mek peroxide to the resin) it kicks off fast. EZ-Poxy 10 plus
EZ-83 hardener has a track record of over 35 years usage as a glass/epoxy
gas tank in canard-pusher Rutan type aircraft.
Gordon Bowen
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Glue question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Dan,
I would go with the quart kit. T-88 does have a shelf life, in as much as
after awhile the clear (not amber) does start to thicken.
I only used 2 quart kits for my Piet.
I didn't like to waste (even though all my joints had a nice fillet at the
connecting pieces)
The best way to mix T-88 is on a saucer. Cut the nozzles with the same size
opening at the tip , and squeeze the same diameter bead , the same length
for both A&B. Guys waste alot by mixing in a cup. Only time I used a cup
was when I glued the ply to the fuse side or bottom, where you need lots of
glue.
Best application stick is a tongue depressor. Buy a package, or go to a
local pharmacy and get them for about a dime apiece.
Grab the round end in your teeth, about half way across, bite down , and
pull the other part away from your face. Now you have 2 applicater sticks.
Every time you're done using it, wipe off the tip. When it becomes "round"
on the end, throw it out.
(probably TMI, but I miss building)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glue question
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering"
<danl@odayequipment.com>
>
>
> Getting ready to purchase some wood and start cutting. I have decided to
start on the wing ribs as my first project and was wondering if anyone out
there has a rough guestimate on how much T-88 I should start out with?
Would a quart kit suffice, or should I go for the 1/2 gallon right off the
bat... Now just waiting for the plans to show up!
>
> Dan Loegering
> Fargo, ND
>
>
Message 20
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In a message dated 3/1/2005 8:21:46 PM Central Standard Time,
ddjohn@earthlink.net writes:
> You can't use aluminum
FAA won't allow on a "certificated" airplane, but still a very bad idea on an
experimetal as well.
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Gas Tank Question |
I'm using the West system and ordered my supplies from Aircraft Spruce. I'm
building one fuel tank (center section) using the lost foam method. A second
tank in the center section (smaller) will be used for baby oil so I can
out-smoke Chuck Gantzer. My fuselage tank will be built not from lost foam, but
from a
female (waxed) mold. I already had access to the gas tank mold and am too
lazy to build one from scratch for the center section tanks.
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Lost Foam Gas Tank |
Gordon:
Many thanks for the tips on the tanks (not to be confused with tip tanks:)
Roy
Starting on the tanks tomorrow.
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Glue question |
Dan,
I looked at prices and it was $25.00 for a quart or $75.00 for the gallon. That
seemed like a good saving so I went with the gallon.. Trouble was, it came
in two half gallon containers. Pouring from them to measure small quantities
was a pain. I have since ordered a quart and it comes in two pint containers.
Much better to pour and measure from.
Food for thought.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering"
>
>
> Getting ready to purchase some wood and start cutting. I have decided to start
> on the wing ribs as my first project and was wondering if anyone out there has
a
> rough guestimate on how much T-88 I should start out with? Would a quart kit
> suffice, or should I go for the 1/2 gallon right off the bat... Now just
> waiting for the plans to show up!
>
> Dan Loegering
> Fargo, ND
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dan,
I looked at prices and it was $25.00 for a quart or $75.00 for the gallon. That
seemed like a good saving so I went with the gallon.. Trouble was, it came in
two half gallon containers. Pouring from them to measure small quantities was
a pain. I have since ordered a quart and it comes in two pint containers. Much
better to pour and measure from.
Food for thought.
Alex Sloan
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: cabane struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
One thing to keep in mind when using aluminum struts, is that aluminum is
much less forgiving than steel. Aluminum requires accurate holes, and NO nicks
or scratches. After put into service, nicks or scratches (stress risers) could
render the part unservicable, and un-airworthy. If a bolt should loosen up,
and woller out the hole slightly, the part is unservicable, and un-airworthy.
For these reasons, I strongly suggest the use of steel.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Smoke 'em, if ya got 'em !!
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