Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - painting metal parts (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 05:57 AM - Re: painting metal parts (Jack Phillips)
3. 06:11 AM - Re: Different Piets (Rick Holland)
4. 07:50 AM - Re: painting metal parts (Sterling)
5. 07:54 AM - Support your EAA Washington lobbyists (Rick Holland)
6. 09:41 AM - Glue and Sanding (Ron Franck)
7. 10:49 AM - sanding glue joints (Oscar Zuniga)
8. 12:13 PM - LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (DJ Vegh)
9. 04:14 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (Mark Blackwell)
10. 04:23 PM - Re: painting metal parts (hjarrett)
11. 04:41 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (TomTravis@aol.com)
12. 05:11 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (DJ Vegh)
13. 05:30 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (Sterling)
14. 06:36 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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Subject: | painting metal parts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Group;
I've had problems painting metal parts, both steel and aluminum. Some parts
will take the paint perfectly, but other times it's as if there is something
on the metal that repels the paint and I get little voids and imperfections.
Cleaning with hot soapy water, MEK, alcohol, or degreaser don't seem to
make any difference... there are little areas that just won't take the
paint.
Is this maybe some silicone from a cleaning rag, or something in the pores
of the metal? Any ideas?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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Subject: | painting metal parts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Oscar,
I had good results using the PolyFiber products. The procedures are
different depending on the metal. For steel:
a. Beadblast the parts to get all welding scale and any rust off. even
clean metal can benefit from beadblasting as it gives a little more "tooth"
for the primer
b. Clean with PloyFiber's Met-L-Sol
c. Prime with PolyFiber's Epoxy Primer. I find the green works better than
the white. Once cured, this stuff is bulletproof
d. Paint with whatever top coat you want. If you use their Aerothane
polyurethane, you will find it produces an extremtly hard, durable finish
For aluminum:
a. Clean the parts with PolyFiber's Alkaline Cleaner
b. Etch with PolyFiber's Phosphoric Acid etch
c. Apply an Alodine coating. I didn't use PolyFiber's coating because
their's is a clear alodine and I prefer the gold alodine so you can see
where you have missed.
d. Epoxy Prime as above. The acid etch and alodine provides a finely
toothed surface and the primer just about jumps on the aluminum.
e. Top Coat as above. Once the primer is on, you can use any paint you wish
PolyFiber's products are very expensive (that epoxy primer is about $65 for
a quart kit, which makes about 1-1/2 qts), but this is the part of your
project that will really show. If you did a world class job on the woodwork
and then the paintjob looks like crap, the whole airplane will look like
crap.
Jack
Finally finished with structural repairs on NX899JP and starting to do
fabric work.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: painting metal parts
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Group;
I've had problems painting metal parts, both steel and aluminum. Some parts
will take the paint perfectly, but other times it's as if there is something
on the metal that repels the paint and I get little voids and imperfections.
Cleaning with hot soapy water, MEK, alcohol, or degreaser don't seem to
make any difference... there are little areas that just won't take the
paint.
Is this maybe some silicone from a cleaning rag, or something in the pores
of the metal? Any ideas?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Different Piets |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Interesting Doc, a Piet biplane. I looked at the Aerial biplane plans
(and I assume you have also) but heard nothing but bad things about
it. I originally purchased FlyBaby plans and the FlyBaby biplane
supplemental plans which included a modified set of wing plans (both
wings) that bolted to the original fuselage with very little
modifications. Peter Bower claimed you could interchange the wings to
go from biplane to monoplane any time you wanted.
I originally wanted to build a biplane but couldn't find anything else
to beat the price/builder support/track record of the Piet. From what
I have heard the problem with the Aerial Piet biplane was too much
wing area because it kept the original wing and added a lower wing of
about the same size. The FlyBaby biplane used two different smaller
wings which were swept back like a Pitts, looks really good.
Sorry if you know all of this already, I think it would be incredible
if some industrious
person (like yourself) came up with a good biplane Piet design which
could be retro-fitted to existing Piets (like the FlyBaby biplane).
The best of both worlds. The FlyBaby plans also included additions for
adding floats. I know at least one person has successfully added
floats to their Piet, make those plans available as a supplement also
and you have a seriously versatile design.
I wish you the best of luck.
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:19:24 -0800 (PST), Galen Hutcheson
<wacopitts@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
>
> Mark, many (including myself) have modified the width
> of the fuse to make the cockpit more user friendly. I
> am building a biplane version (my own design) using
> the Piet fuse and ribs. The great thing about the
> Piet is it's versitility. You should find many
> discussions on this topic via the search engine. The
> Piet is a great plane in it's own right, but it is
> easy to use it as a spring board for other designs.
>
> Doc
--
Rick Holland
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: painting metal parts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Oscar:
When I built my Avid Flyer, I had to paint many aluminum and 4130 parts, not
to mention fiberglass. I used a 2 part epoxy primer. Everything went great.
I'd try the two part epoxy and stay away from Krylon or other primers in a
can.
One other problem, you have fairly high humidity in your area. You might
need to install a moisture guard on your airline. Here at Knot-2-Shabby we
have humidity too but not as bad as San Antonio. Here is a trick I learned
from an old-timer... I use a filter out of the compressor at 10 feet, then I
go out 25 feet, and installed a moisture guard I bought as Sears. Then I run
another 25 feet from the mositure guard to my gun (HLVP) and it helped the
moisture problem. (Don't ask me why the 25 feet-moisture guard-25 feet thing
works, I learned this trick from the paint shop here when I was spraying a
custom pickup I built in the 80s... Didn't have this problema in El Paso,
since there is no humidity there, but in Central Texas, wow.
Are you draining the sump daily on your compressor? (A great safety measure,
not to mention a way to keep excess water out oif the line.)
Also, I almost always add a fish-eye additive to my paint (in addition to a
hardener... in the color coat, not the primer) and the fish-eye additive is
VERY GOOD for the problem you described. I've never tried these additives in
anything other than enamels by the way.
Last, have you used any air tools needing oil? You might have a contaminated
oil line.
PLATA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: painting metal parts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Group;
>
> I've had problems painting metal parts, both steel and aluminum. Some
parts
> will take the paint perfectly, but other times it's as if there is
something
> on the metal that repels the paint and I get little voids and
imperfections.
> Cleaning with hot soapy water, MEK, alcohol, or degreaser don't seem to
> make any difference... there are little areas that just won't take the
> paint.
>
> Is this maybe some silicone from a cleaning rag, or something in the pores
> of the metal? Any ideas?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Support your EAA Washington lobbyists |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Here we go again. New report being talked about on the national news
this morning concerning how lax general aviation security is,
especially at small airports. An interviewed Washington Post reported
was saying that general aviation security should be as strict as
commercial airline security. Soon we may have to have wire explosive
detectors into our ignitions to be legal that disables the engine when
something is detected.
Sorry for the off topic post.
do not archive
--
Rick Holland
Message 6
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Subject: | Glue and Sanding |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ron Franck <franck@geneseo.net>
Perhaps I missed it, but if not it may be worth mentioning.
Whenever I sand wood, especially plywood I go over the areas to be joined
first with the shop vac, then with either a tack cloth or the sticky side
of duct tape. The purpose being to remove any wood dust from the area of
the glue joint. This is standard practice whenever I assemble wood in my
shop. Disclaimer: I'm not a expert and I'm not suggesting the joint is any
stronger. I just do it for my own piece of mind.
Message 7
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Subject: | sanding glue joints |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Jack wrote-
>T-88 can stand some (small) gap, but don't think it will let you get away
>with sloppy construction.
In fact, T-88 requires a small gap. If you over-clamp a joint made with
T-88 you'll squeeze out too much of the glue and will not get a good joint.
One of the big plusses of working with T-88 is that it is much more
forgiving than resorcinol or some of the other glues. Joints should be
nice, but even if you have slight discrepancies the T-88 will fill the gap
and give you good strength.
Although I haven't tried it myself, it is said that wood joints can be made
with T-88 on wood that is moist (such as from steaming, to bend capstrips).
It has also been said, and my experience bears it out, that T-88 will soften
at elevated temperatures. Icarus would have had a problem with T-88,
although we know that Piets would take an eternity to climb close enough to
the sun to make a difference ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 8
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Subject: | LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
My uncle is currently a Student Pilot with about 12 hours.
He wants to stop training for a Private Pilot certificate, buy a LSA and
get a Sport Pilot certificate. We were talking and I told him that I am
seriously looking into getting my Sport Pilot Instructors certificate. If I
did I'd teach him in his aircraft.... BUT,
I'm wondering.... if he gets a taildragger (like a Kolb or Kitfox, etc.)
will he need a tailwheel endorsement?? and if so, would I (being a Sport
Pilot Instructor) be able to endorse him for tailwheel flight in his
airplane?
I'll give 1 minute of free advice (estimated value $.02) to anyone who can
answer my question ;)
DJ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
N74DV
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
DJ Just a piece of advice. Help him. Help him pick a CFI. Encourage
him. Fly with him. Answer his questions, but do not take the
responsibility of teaching him. Relatives are just too close for an
instructor to do their job properly. More often than not a CFI that is
not objective is either way too tough to be fair or too easy for the
students on good no matter how hard they try to be completely fair. It
can cause very hard feelings that can easily last.
DJ Vegh wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
>My uncle is currently a Student Pilot with about 12 hours.
>
>He wants to stop training for a Private Pilot certificate, buy a LSA and
>get a Sport Pilot certificate. We were talking and I told him that I am
>seriously looking into getting my Sport Pilot Instructors certificate. If I
>did I'd teach him in his aircraft.... BUT,
>
>I'm wondering.... if he gets a taildragger (like a Kolb or Kitfox, etc.)
>will he need a tailwheel endorsement?? and if so, would I (being a Sport
>Pilot Instructor) be able to endorse him for tailwheel flight in his
>airplane?
>
>I'll give 1 minute of free advice (estimated value $.02) to anyone who can
>answer my question ;)
>
>DJ
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>N74DV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: painting metal parts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
Possible sources
1) Oil from your compressor (rings and cylinder bore getting worn)
2) Are you using paper towels? Lots of brands are contaminated with Si.
3) Finger prints. You wouldn't believe how much contaminant is on your
fingers!
4) Contaminated shop rags
Possible solutions
1) Eliminate the above
2) Wipe with Prep Sol (Get it at a GOOD paint store. It's what they use in
auto paint shops)
3) Don't throw rocks at this one. I know it sounds totally STUPID but use
the paint you will be using on the part to clean the surface. I found this
out by accident after what you described happened several times in a row and
the finish was doing it AGAIN! I was so frustrated I literally wiped the
wet paint off with a clean rag and just blasted it with another coat. (Like
I said, I was really mad). The residual paint from the wiping was wetted
out by the new paint and leveled into a beautiful finish. I have pulled
this little trick several times since then when I couldn't get the surface
clean by any normal method and darned if it didn't work every time. I don't
know why it works and I sure don't let anybody see me do it but it has
worked. It's just embarrassing to admit I have done it. If it works for
you let me know. Heck let me know either way. It has yet to fail me when
nothing else works.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: painting metal parts
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Group;
>
> I've had problems painting metal parts, both steel and aluminum. Some
parts
> will take the paint perfectly, but other times it's as if there is
something
> on the metal that repels the paint and I get little voids and
imperfections.
> Cleaning with hot soapy water, MEK, alcohol, or degreaser don't seem to
> make any difference... there are little areas that just won't take the
> paint.
>
> Is this maybe some silicone from a cleaning rag, or something in the pores
> of the metal? Any ideas?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements |
In a message dated 3/14/2005 6:15:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,
aerialphotos@dp.net writes:
Relatives are just too close for an
instructor to do their job properly.
Sometimes that can be true but not always. I taught my daughter to fly and
it's something we've enjoyed together for years. We still get on pretty well
even though she's a professional pilot and I'm her chief pilot. I must admit
when we went through recurrent training last week and her V1 cuts were better
than mine it was hard to take.
It all depends on your relationship with your uncle. If neither of you have
your egos wrapped up in it you can have lots of good safe fun.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
typically I can see that.... but my dad was my CFI and all went well.
We're a close family and we're good with stuff like this.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Blackwell" <aerialphotos@dp.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
> DJ Just a piece of advice. Help him. Help him pick a CFI. Encourage
> him. Fly with him. Answer his questions, but do not take the
> responsibility of teaching him. Relatives are just too close for an
> instructor to do their job properly. More often than not a CFI that is
> not objective is either way too tough to be fair or too easy for the
> students on good no matter how hard they try to be completely fair. It
> can cause very hard feelings that can easily last.
> DJ Vegh wrote:
>
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>>
>>My uncle is currently a Student Pilot with about 12 hours.
>>
>>He wants to stop training for a Private Pilot certificate, buy a LSA and
>>get a Sport Pilot certificate. We were talking and I told him that I am
>>seriously looking into getting my Sport Pilot Instructors certificate. If
>>I
>>did I'd teach him in his aircraft.... BUT,
>>
>>I'm wondering.... if he gets a taildragger (like a Kolb or Kitfox, etc.)
>>will he need a tailwheel endorsement?? and if so, would I (being a Sport
>>Pilot Instructor) be able to endorse him for tailwheel flight in his
>>airplane?
>>
>>I'll give 1 minute of free advice (estimated value $.02) to anyone who can
>>answer my question ;)
>>
>>DJ
>>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>>N74DV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
My old man taught me when I was 14 (39 years ago) and I'm still learning
tricks from pop! And I don't even dread having my 85 year old father
teaching me in an open cockpit airplane (when this Piet project is ready :)
At the rate I'm going, he'll be 86 before this puppy flys.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> typically I can see that.... but my dad was my CFI and all went well.
> We're a close family and we're good with stuff like this.
>
> DJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Blackwell" <aerialphotos@dp.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell
<aerialphotos@dp.net>
> >
> > DJ Just a piece of advice. Help him. Help him pick a CFI. Encourage
> > him. Fly with him. Answer his questions, but do not take the
> > responsibility of teaching him. Relatives are just too close for an
> > instructor to do their job properly. More often than not a CFI that is
> > not objective is either way too tough to be fair or too easy for the
> > students on good no matter how hard they try to be completely fair. It
> > can cause very hard feelings that can easily last.
> > DJ Vegh wrote:
> >
> >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
> >>
> >>My uncle is currently a Student Pilot with about 12 hours.
> >>
> >>He wants to stop training for a Private Pilot certificate, buy a LSA
and
> >>get a Sport Pilot certificate. We were talking and I told him that I am
> >>seriously looking into getting my Sport Pilot Instructors certificate.
If
> >>I
> >>did I'd teach him in his aircraft.... BUT,
> >>
> >>I'm wondering.... if he gets a taildragger (like a Kolb or Kitfox, etc.)
> >>will he need a tailwheel endorsement?? and if so, would I (being a
Sport
> >>Pilot Instructor) be able to endorse him for tailwheel flight in his
> >>airplane?
> >>
> >>I'll give 1 minute of free advice (estimated value $.02) to anyone who
can
> >>answer my question ;)
> >>
> >>DJ
> >>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
> >>N74DV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=uvbSRacCbW9SpWIuY6lCW97c82/8yVqMl8+0LOsPQ2MMdxk9x5C9acPkV4V30f7tir+Y0DwaBjL2d2PPDGjrdPwC8v9wrNKZ+yI853muYbYtNfFtqJaKCIdgTotK8GmcRsNl1dVIjW2/vaC/vTZMYnIatw8rhD0vMvlwMvcvPxo=
;
Subject: | Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements |
My opinion: Remember that when tranning the Instructor has to be VERY firm in
his corrections, and clases. The student life (in the future) could depends
on that trainning.
If you cant be firm enough without hurting feelings, dont do it.
But flights, with advice, once he got his ticket, are always welcome. This from
all pilots Newbes or "good" ones.
Saludos
Gary Gower
(Just do what you decide, maybe not a good opinion :-)
TomTravis@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/14/2005 6:15:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, aerialphotos@dp.net
writes:
Relatives are just too close for an
instructor to do their job properly.
Sometimes that can be true but not always. I taught my daughter to fly and it's
something we've enjoyed together for years. We still get on pretty well even
though she's a professional pilot and I'm her chief pilot. I must admit when we
went through recurrent training last week and her V1 cuts were better than mine
it was hard to take.
It all depends on your relationship with your uncle. If neither of you have your
egos wrapped up in it you can have lots of good safe fun.
---------------------------------
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