Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 03/15/05


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:59 AM - Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. (Michael D Cuy)
     2. 06:05 AM - here is the link....... (Michael D Cuy)
     3. 06:13 AM - Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. (N925WB1@aol.com)
     4. 06:33 AM - Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. (Phillips, Jack)
     5. 06:55 AM - Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. (DJ Vegh)
     6. 10:20 AM - Aeropoxy over West System? Compatibility? (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
     7. 12:51 PM - Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. (N925WB1@aol.com)
     8. 01:54 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (Frank Metcalfe)
     9. 02:27 PM - Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements (DJ Vegh)
    10. 03:03 PM - Re: Aeropoxy over West System? Compatibility? (gbowen@ptialaska.net)
    11. 03:18 PM - Glue Joints (TBYH@aol.com)
    12. 06:59 PM - Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. (Cinda Gadd)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:59:22 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas.
    d2$2c7c8b50$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com><423628CC.4050200@dp.net> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> I like how the seller calls this a Pietenpol Air Camper when it is not....and the fact that he says "easily repaired" and "light wing damage". Oh right-----take a look at the photos. I would steer way clear of this baby. Mike C.


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:05:36 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: here is the link.......
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4534270000&category=63677&sspagename=WDVW


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:13:49 AM PST US
    From: N925WB1@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas.
    Yo Mike, Looks like an Aircamper to me... I thought the major difference was that the GN-1 had a steel tube fuselage. This one's wood. I'm no expert, though, so I readily admit ignorance if I a wrong. ;) Anyway, I agree that this thing is crazy scary. Definitely NOT worth the $6,500 buy-it-now price, or the current bid price of $4,000!!! Some people are just suckers for a "good deal", and don't do their homework before they open their wallets. Too bad... -Wayne In a message dated 3/15/2005 8:00:09 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: I like how the seller calls this a Pietenpol Air Camper when it is not....and the fact that he says "easily repaired" and "light wing damage". Oh right-----take a look at the photos. I would steer way clear of this baby. Mike C.


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:33:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas.
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
    GN-1s can be built with steel or wood fuselages, just like Pietenpols. This one is definitely a GN-1. I wouldn't touch this one with a 10' pole. If the lift strut fittings borke, the spars are definitely suspect. With a broken prop, I would always wonder about the engine (even though wood props supposedly take the strain that a metal prop would impart to the crankshaft). Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N925WB1@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. Yo Mike, Looks like an Aircamper to me... I thought the major difference was that the GN-1 had a steel tube fuselage. This one's wood. I'm no expert, though, so I readily admit ignorance if I a wrong. ;) Anyway, I agree that this thing is crazy scary. Definitely NOT worth the $6,500 buy-it-now price, or the current bid price of $4,000!!! Some people are just suckers for a "good deal", and don't do their homework before they open their wallets. Too bad... -Wayne In a message dated 3/15/2005 8:00:09 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: I like how the seller calls this a Pietenpol Air Camper when it is not....and the fact that he says "easily repaired" and "light wing damage". Oh right-----take a look at the photos. I would steer way clear of this baby. Mike C.


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:55:26 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas.
    the easiest way to tell a GN-1 from a Piet is the landing gear. On the Piet the front and rear tubes of the gear meet up at the lift struts. On a GN-1 the rear tube meets the fuselage in front of the rear lift strut. Thats because GN-1's use a J-3 landing gear. And yes... this one look spretty scary indeed. I'd give about $3000 for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: N925WB1@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas. Yo Mike, Looks like an Aircamper to me... I thought the major difference was that the GN-1 had a steel tube fuselage. This one's wood. I'm no expert, though, so I readily admit ignorance if I a wrong. ;) Anyway, I agree that this thing is crazy scary. Definitely NOT worth the $6,500 buy-it-now price, or the current bid price of $4,000!!! Some people are just suckers for a "good deal", and don't do their homework before they open their wallets. Too bad... -Wayne In a message dated 3/15/2005 8:00:09 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: I like how the seller calls this a Pietenpol Air Camper when it is not....and the fact that he says "easily repaired" and "light wing damage". Oh right-----take a look at the photos. I would steer way clear of this baby. Mike C.


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:20:19 AM PST US
    From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
    Subject: Aeropoxy over West System? Compatibility?
    Does anyone have any experience in using Aeropoxy OVER West System? I need to add a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth on a fuel tank and I've run bone-dry on West System epoxy resin and hardener but I have a fresh supply of Aeropoxy PR2032 resin and PH3660 hardener (originally intended for something else...) Thanks, S.B.


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:51:24 PM PST US
    From: N925WB1@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas.
    DJ, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I learn something new all the time from this list, even if I am just a casual observer! BTW - I would assume then that the Pietenpol rear LG strut arrangement would be stonger than that of the GN-1, as the landing loads would be trasmitted throught the attach fittings, into the wing struts, through the wings, and then back down on the other side, thereby creating a box (similar to a biplane wing configuration) ; whereas the GN-1 loads would be completely absorbed by the lower longeron, putting in it shear between the rear LG attach fitting, and the rear strut attach point. Just a thought. -Wayne In a message dated 3/15/2005 8:56:09 AM Central Standard Time, djv@imagedv.com writes: the easiest way to tell a GN-1 from a Piet is the landing gear. On the Piet the front and rear tubes of the gear meet up at the lift struts. On a GN-1 the rear tube meets the fuselage in front of the rear lift strut. Thats because GN-1's use a J-3 landing gear. And yes... this one look spretty scary indeed. I'd give about $3000 for it.


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:54:01 PM PST US
    From: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf@bellsouth.net> Yes he will have to have and endorsement and if you have a tailwheel endorement with your CFI you will be able to sgin him off...But only in LSP aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> My uncle is currently a Student Pilot with about 12 hours. He wants to stop training for a Private Pilot certificate, buy a LSA and get a Sport Pilot certificate. We were talking and I told him that I am seriously looking into getting my Sport Pilot Instructors certificate. If I did I'd teach him in his aircraft.... BUT, I'm wondering.... if he gets a taildragger (like a Kolb or Kitfox, etc.) will he need a tailwheel endorsement?? and if so, would I (being a Sport Pilot Instructor) be able to endorse him for tailwheel flight in his airplane? I'll give 1 minute of free advice (estimated value $.02) to anyone who can answer my question ;) DJ www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:27:23 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> thanks that's what I was thinking. I do have my endorsement so it looks like all will be good. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf@bellsouth.net> > > Yes he will have to have and endorsement and if you have a tailwheel > endorement with your CFI you will be able to sgin him off...But only in LSP > aircraft > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:13 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: LSA regs and tailwheell endorsements > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> > > My uncle is currently a Student Pilot with about 12 hours. > > He wants to stop training for a Private Pilot certificate, buy a LSA and > get a Sport Pilot certificate. We were talking and I told him that I am > seriously looking into getting my Sport Pilot Instructors certificate. If I > did I'd teach him in his aircraft.... BUT, > > I'm wondering.... if he gets a taildragger (like a Kolb or Kitfox, etc.) > will he need a tailwheel endorsement?? and if so, would I (being a Sport > Pilot Instructor) be able to endorse him for tailwheel flight in his > airplane? > > I'll give 1 minute of free advice (estimated value $.02) to anyone who can > answer my question ;) > > DJ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > N74DV > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:03:06 PM PST US
    From: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
    Subject: Aeropoxy over West System? Compatibility?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" <gbowen@ptialaska.net> I've used both these systems over the years plus analyzed them as competitors for composites applications. There would not be any problem of using either of these two systems. Aeropoxy was one of the two systems approved by Rutan for integral fuel tanks on his canard-pusher designed homebuilts, and has functioned for close to 15 years. West is used mainly in the marine industry and is used for fuel tanks. One tip- if the epoxy/glass laminate you're trying to bond something to is shiny, you gotta sand the surface to about 80 grit to get the next layer of epoxy/glass to bond properly. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: N321TX@wmconnect.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aeropoxy over West System? Compatibility? Does anyone have any experience in using Aeropoxy OVER West System? I need to add a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth on a fuel tank and I've run bone-dry on West System epoxy resin and hardener but I have a fresh supply of Aeropoxy PR2032 resin and PH3660 hardener (originally intended for something else...) Thanks, S.B.


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:18:22 PM PST US
    From: TBYH@aol.com
    Subject: Glue Joints
    Another thing that I do when gluing joints, using West System epoxy, is to make a series of little indentations on each side of the joint using the corner edge of my wood chisel. This gives the joint some more surface area and "teeth." Seems to work very well. When I started building my Piet I made a test joint of 1-inch by 1-inch spruce in a typical longeron and upright joint with 1/8-inch ply gusset on=20both sides. After only 24 hours I could not break the joint and so gave it to my powerlifter son. Understand that he can squat or dead lift 500 pounds seemingly easier than I can lift 50 pounds! He could not separate the joint. I then took a hammer to the joint and only succeeded in breaking away the unsupported gusset material. I have determined that this glue and method is airworthy --- not to mention that thousands of homebuilders have been using West System for years under all kinds of conditions. But I've found that with all things having to do with airplanes, it doesn't hurt to be a little nervous... I started making the landing gear struts out of white ash the other day. What made it special is that I'm using my great-grandfather's 1882 drawknife to rough shape the leading and trailing edges of the white ash=E2=80=94basically just rounding off the corners but with a little more taper to the rear. (Wonder what great-gramps would think of building an airplane=E2=80=94or airplanes in general!) A drawknife works very well for this task as long as it is sharp and you work with the grain. (White ash will tell you very quickly if you're going against the grain.) I really felt a connection with the "old timers" using this method =E2=80=94no shrieking, growling power tools. Just a quiet swish, swish of sharp steel. Very relaxing. But don't relax with a drawknife -- you wouldn't want=20to cut off an important body part -- or stain that beautiful wood by bleeding all over it! Just think! Only four months, one week and a day or so to Brodhead '05! "Git 'er done!" Fred B.


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:59:20 PM PST US
    s=test1; d=earthlink.net; b=kL+3b98ITazK1DZJZ/yUUiwHYSavmsZWq4If13VEIYY57WtxFJUv0emRmJSlto23;
    From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Scary GN-1 on ebay now......in Texas.
    Wayne, You have hit on another way you can tell a GN1 from a Piet. Use the ebay link below and check out the picture of the inside of the cockpit. You will see an extra upright about 6 or 8 inches from another upright. Grega had to put the extra upright in so there would be an upright intersecting the lower longeron at both L/G and lift strut locations. GN1s also have 2 fairing strips down the side of the fuselage where Piets only have one. Skip http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4534270000&category=63677&sspagename=WDVW BTW - I would assume then that the Pietenpol rear LG strut arrangement would be stonger than that of the GN-1, as the landing loads would be trasmitted throught the attach fittings, into the wing struts, through the wings, and then back down on the other side, thereby creating a box (similar to a biplane wing configuration) ; whereas the GN-1 loads would be completely absorbed by the lower longeron, putting in it shear between the rear LG attach fitting, and the rear strut attach point. Just a thought. -Wayne




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