Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:04 AM - Re: Prop carving (Clif Dawson)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: A good day at the hangar (Jack Phillips)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Mark Blackwell)
4. 06:38 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Jack Phillips)
5. 06:39 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Ben Charvet)
6. 06:48 AM - Re: A good day at the hangar (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
7. 07:10 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Jim Thursby)
8. 07:26 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Dick Navratil)
9. 07:31 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Galen Hutcheson)
10. 08:01 AM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Galen Hutcheson)
11. 10:57 AM - Re: A good day at the hangar (Rick Holland)
12. 11:00 AM - Re: A good day at the hangar (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
13. 07:18 PM - Re: Well gone an did it today (Ben Charvet)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Prop carving |
Thanks Dan. I'll be carving a prop soon. I just acquired a half VW
with about 10 hrs on it for $175. Guy smucked his plane ( Hummel )
left the engine with the fields owner in leu of money owed. Things
happened to it while sitting around so I've had it apart and back
together again, virtually no wear in the cylinders. Seems like a
good practice project for prop building.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving
Clif,
Great post. I changed the title line for the archives.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
In a message dated 3/18/05 3:19:06 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca
writes:
Found it! Finally! I knew I had plans for this somewhere.
I haven't made or used this thing yet but it looks pretty
simple. Below is the source;
Gary McGill & Associates
PO Box 2566
Glendale, AZ 85311-2566
gemcsr@juno.com
VW two cylinder engine conversion plans and parts.
Here's some other stuff;
http://users.lmi.net/~ryoung/Sonerai/Carve_Prop.html
http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/WoodenProps.htm
http://members.tripod.com/moasiaircraft/simple_propeller_design.htm
http://users.lmi.net/~ryoung/Sonerai/Glue_for_Props.html
http://www.kenfern.btinternet.co.uk/frame.htm
http://www.wood-carver.com/articles.html
And finally, my favourite;
http://www.woodenpropeller.com/index.html
Clif
Message 2
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| Subject: | A good day at the hangar |
Beautiful, Dick!
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick Navratil
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A good day at the hangar
I uncrated my new engine and did a first test fitting today. This is the
Rotec R-2800. I have attached a pic. It's starting to look like an
airplane of sorts. This is the fuselage that we built at Sun n Fun.
Dick N.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
resources for learning what to keep and what not to? What is the
difference between aircraft grade ply and regular ply?
I have most of the tools you mentioned except the bandsaws and the
welder. I have soldered copper pipes to musical instruments, but never
welded. Like you Ive been a pilot for over 20 years but building is
something that the wife made me do around the house.
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
>
>Mark, congratulations, but don't wait too long after
>getting the plans to start work on the project. Best
>to get started as soon as possible. A small workshop
>is helpful. I use my garage. A work bench. I use a
>table saw frequently as well as a small band saw and a
>miter saw. I also use a Dremel tool often. A tack
>hamer and I use tweesers for holding the very small
>nails for securing the gussetts on while the glue
>dries. I also have a larger band saw with a metal
>cutting blade for the metal work. I have an
>acetylene/oxy torch with an "O" size welding tip to
>make the welds with. I also use a Stanley
>forming/shaping tool and a good wood rasp. Lots of
>sand paper and a disc and belt sander are very
>helpful. Lots of glue clamps for sure. These items
>don't all have to be bought at one time, you can
>acquire them over several weeks as you progress on the
>project. You will love working on the plane and this
>is coming from a guy who spent 32 years of flying and
>had never built before in his life. It is a lot of
>fun to build and does take a lot of time, but it is
>far more fun than watching tv and much more rewarding
>too. You will save big bucks if you go to the lumber
>yard and purchase your wood there and cut the pieces
>you need. Baltic birch is a great plywood. You can
>get good A/C grade 1/16th inch birch ply from a good
>hobby store. It takes more work this way, but you
>will save a lot of money. Everyone on this list is
>very helpful and will answer all your questions for
>you, just ask. Best wishes and happy building.
>
>Doc
>
> It
>
>
>>will be a while before I finally start cutting wood,
>>but the first step
>>was taken today and would welcome any advise and
>>recomendations on any
>>special tools I might need to make life easier.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Contributions
>>any other
>>Forums.
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>>http://www.matronics.com/archives
>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
Get a copy of EAA's Aircraft Building Techniques - Wood. While you're at
it, get all four of Tony Bingelis' books: The Sportplane Builder,
Sportplane Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on
Engines. Other books I would recommend are the FAA's bible on aircraft
repair (which has a lot of information that can be applied to construction),
AC-43.13. The EAA's book on aircraft welding is useful (there is a
surprising amount of welding to be done on a wooden airplane), as is
PolyFiber's book on how to cover an aircraft.
If you can afford it, I would recommend two bandsaws - one for wood (and
aluminum) and one for steel. I already had a Sears 12" bandsaw which served
me well for the woodworking. I bought a cheap Grizzly metalcutting bandsaw
for about $200 and it did a fine job on all the steel parts. A good
beltsander with an abrasive disc is a "nice to have" tool for dressing the
edges of the steel parts, as well as finishing the wooden parts.
Good Luck to you! You are about to embark on an adventure few have known.
I can tell you that there is no better feeling in the world than feeling the
plane you have built with your own hands lifting off the runway and
responding to your control, just as you have imagined it.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
Covering the new stabilizer for NX899JP this morning
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Well gone an did it today
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
resources for learning what to keep and what not to? What is the
difference between aircraft grade ply and regular ply?
I have most of the tools you mentioned except the bandsaws and the
welder. I have soldered copper pipes to musical instruments, but never
welded. Like you Ive been a pilot for over 20 years but building is
something that the wife made me do around the house.
Galen Hutcheson wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
>
>Mark, congratulations, but don't wait too long after
>getting the plans to start work on the project. Best
>to get started as soon as possible. A small workshop
>is helpful. I use my garage. A work bench. I use a
>table saw frequently as well as a small band saw and a
>miter saw. I also use a Dremel tool often. A tack
>hamer and I use tweesers for holding the very small
>nails for securing the gussetts on while the glue
>dries. I also have a larger band saw with a metal
>cutting blade for the metal work. I have an
>acetylene/oxy torch with an "O" size welding tip to
>make the welds with. I also use a Stanley
>forming/shaping tool and a good wood rasp. Lots of
>sand paper and a disc and belt sander are very
>helpful. Lots of glue clamps for sure. These items
>don't all have to be bought at one time, you can
>acquire them over several weeks as you progress on the
>project. You will love working on the plane and this
>is coming from a guy who spent 32 years of flying and
>had never built before in his life. It is a lot of
>fun to build and does take a lot of time, but it is
>far more fun than watching tv and much more rewarding
>too. You will save big bucks if you go to the lumber
>yard and purchase your wood there and cut the pieces
>you need. Baltic birch is a great plywood. You can
>get good A/C grade 1/16th inch birch ply from a good
>hobby store. It takes more work this way, but you
>will save a lot of money. Everyone on this list is
>very helpful and will answer all your questions for
>you, just ask. Best wishes and happy building.
>
>Doc
>
> It
>
>
>>will be a while before I finally start cutting wood,
>>but the first step
>>was taken today and would welcome any advise and
>>recomendations on any
>>special tools I might need to make life easier.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Contributions
>>any other
>>Forums.
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
>>http://www.matronics.com/archives
>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Welcome to the group, Mark. By searching the archives you can find a wealth
of information on what others have used for wood and where they bought it.
The EAA prints a book about building airplanes with wood that is a pretty
good resource. If you are an EAA member you can go to the homebuilders
section and get some excellent articles on all methods of building. I live
in Florida and haven't had much luck finding good Douglas Fir in any sizes
thicker than 3/4 inch finished. I am using lumberyard boards to cut my rib
material. There is a place in Oregon at a website edensaw.com that can ship
vertical grain kiln dried douglas fir (quoted me $5.50/board ft). The
shipping runs several hundred dollars to ship from Oregon to Fl, so I'm
testing my endurance for this project by building my ribs first. (10 so
far). Don Pietenpol enclosed a letter with my plans suggesting that the way
to finish is to make some part of the project every day. Its hard for me to
stick to it, but I try. Study the plans well, and do your research before
you go to the lumberyards, to avoid building with materials that you later
learn might not meet the standards recommended by EAA and others. I built
an entire fuselage with some inexpensive lumberyard stuff that was close,
but not quite close enough. Remember that the price of the wood is probably
only 10-20% of the price of the project.
Good Luck!
Ben
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A good day at the hangar |
After looking at that picture, I had a Ivan Petrovich Pavlov Pavlovian
Response.
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben
Charvet
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Well gone an did it today
Ben, Where in FL? We have a place here in Tampa called Intercity lumber
that gets real nice Douglas fir in up to 20 foot lengths.
Jim T.
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
I live in Florida and haven't had much luck finding good Douglas Fir in
any sizes
thicker than 3/4 inch finished.
Ben
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
M ark
If you can make it to Sun n Fun, we will be building a Fuselage and tail
feathers for Gardiner Mason at the show. Come by and look or help. There
will also be demo's of building wing ribs or you can buy a completed set
from Chrlie at the show if you want.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Blackwell" <aerialphotos@dp.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Well gone an did it today
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
> Well my day started off a bit differently. I picked up the phone before
> making a final decision and talked to Don Peitenpol. I haven't started
> a day in a better way in a very long time. Super guy that seems to love
> aviation with a true appreciation of avation history. He should, he did
> have a rather unique view of it. His willingness to answer questions
> and his just generally being a nice man told me this really is the
> airplane for me and I ordered the plans.
>
> Ive never tackled a project like this, but Don was very encouraging. It
> will be a while before I finally start cutting wood, but the first step
> was taken today and would welcome any advise and recomendations on any
> special tools I might need to make life easier.
>
> Mark
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=csmg31fO788hvjolr8Av5axBlbQou95cVwzuPBDuxHpH+PRJlhMwhtEtrxtKPRBXjfPeIRgvzUNGg36RYj57hV9i2GqiDgblxre4A9FztZGnftqPQ40godiZMOKt1S3ocqId6VSnAnqyrpi7OPARYXH7RYd9H1HRjf4fGwMLlYQ=
;
| Subject: | Re: Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Mark, I found fairly good spruce at our lumber yard.
You will need to pick through the stack to find the
right pieces. Look for "quarter-sawn" lumber. That
is, lumber, from the end view point, has the rings
running across the end of the board like a ladder.
Often you will see the center of the tree on one end
of the board (again looking at one end of the board).
Count the rings and you should have at least 8 rings
per inch and they should run all the way to the other
end of the board without running off the edge of the
board. As few knots as possible (you will discard a
lot of board because of knots and pitch pockets, but
it is still cheaper this way). You are allowed small
knots (less than 3/8" diameter no closer than 3/8"
from the edge of the piece). Save the discarded
pieces as you can use smaller pieces for cross-members
in the project. I bought my small band saw off ebay,
but I had to do some work on it after I got it.
I used the pattern of the rib that comes with the
plans to form my rib jig, though some think the
pattern my not be accurate. I compared mine with the
coordinates and found it very close. Remember, it is
still an airfoil and will fly. You be the judge. You
will spend a lot of time building jigs, but that is
part of the fun. Just take your time and make it as
accurate as you can. I try to think ahead on the
project to prevent doing something that will have to
be changed later. So I spend more time thinking about
the project than I do in actually doing the work.
Before I started my project, I went through all my old
issues of Sport Aviation and ripped out all of the
articles on building tips and put them in a ring
binder for reference. I bought Bengelis book "Sport
Plane Builder" and find it helpful. The more you
read, the easier it will be to build
There is a lot of debate over the plywood issue. I
find that plain old baltic birch (from the lumber
yard, usually in 5' X 5' X 1/8" sheets, are plenty
strong for the large gussetts. A/C grade plywood will
say it is A/C grade on the label and I bought Midwest
brand at the hobby store. That is the 1/16" size for
the rib gussetts just to save on shipping. I bought
1/8" mahagony ply for the side panels again from the
lumber yard. I used 1/4" 5 ply baltic birch bought
from the lumber yard for the floor.
The EAA website has some great articles on gas welding
and with practice you will have no trouble welding.
Pratice is very impportant. You can go to the local
scrap metal yard and buy pratice material. I do
recommend you buy 4130 steel for the metal parts on
the plane however.
Hope this helps and good luck. If you would like some
building pics, I will be happy to email you some.
Doc
--- Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell
> <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
> Id heard the local lumber yard was the place to go,
> but any good
> resources for learning what to keep and what not to?
> What is the
> difference between aircraft grade ply and regular
> ply?
>
> I have most of the tools you mentioned except the
> bandsaws and the
> welder. I have soldered copper pipes to musical
> instruments, but never
> welded. Like you Ive been a pilot for over 20 years
> but building is
> something that the wife made me do around the house.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Contributions
> >>any other
> >>Forums.
> >>
> >>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> >>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> >>http://www.matronics.com/archives
> >>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> >>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> protection around
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Message 10
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=XS06TmZBqVO6mSBHsyZw9zUcnOKb8rJQ7++Q3svnwKSxu+mUAarOtYPJrfQNM/VaLlOjfIXrOkdpF+GUOcs0b7nSOeyRKwYMcVZ0PG05WKMp4nnX/shoimTZzqFjsXCrWj6UEZiePN79bkwf4WjAOB24NJfWdevG3P/Ao+oeHso=
;
| Subject: | Re: Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Mark, a few more hints if you wish to use them. I
bought 2 X 6 boards as base material. This gives you
plenty of board to cut your material from. I have a
used 10" table saw with a Diabalo finish cutting blade
to cut everything with and it works very well.
Remember to sand the plywood before gluing because
glue penetration is critical for a strong joint. The
plywood has a glaze that needs to be sanded off. A
few stroks with good sand paper is all it takes. Hope
this helps.
Doc
--- Mark Blackwell <aerialphotos@dp.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell
> <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
> Id heard the local lumber yard was the place to go,
> but any good
> resources for learning what to keep and what not to?
> What is the
> difference between aircraft grade ply and regular
> ply?
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Contributions
> >>any other
> >>Forums.
> >>
> >>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> >>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> >>http://www.matronics.com/archives
> >>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> >>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> protection around
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A good day at the hangar |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Pavlovian Response.? Does that mean that you wet your pants?
do not archive
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:48:05 EST, N321TX@wmconnect.com
<N321TX@wmconnect.com> wrote:
> After looking at that picture, I had a Ivan Petrovich Pavlov Pavlovian
> Response.
>
> do not archive
--
Rick Holland
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A good day at the hangar |
Salivated on unpainted 4130. Just as bad I suppose.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Well gone an did it today |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
I live in Mims, Fl, which is almost directly opposite from Tampa on the east
coast (near Titusville). Do they stock this douglas fir in 2X4 or 2X6 in
those lengths?
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Thursby" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Well gone an did it today
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby"
<jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben
> Charvet
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:41 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Well gone an did it today
> Ben, Where in FL? We have a place here in Tampa called Intercity lumber
> that gets real nice Douglas fir in up to 20 foot lengths.
>
> Jim T.
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ben Charvet"
<bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
> I live in Florida and haven't had much luck finding good Douglas Fir in
> any sizes
> thicker than 3/4 inch finished.
> Ben
> do not archive
>
>
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