Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 PM - Re: For sale (Gary Gower)
2. 03:01 PM - Piet for sales; (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
3. 03:41 PM - Cabane mounting help.... (Jim Markle)
4. 06:32 PM - Re: Cabane mounting help.... (Rcaprd@aol.com)
5. 06:58 PM - Re: Cabane mounting help.... (DJ Vegh)
6. 07:52 PM - Re: Cabane mounting help.... (Jim Markle)
7. 07:59 PM - Re: Cabane mounting help.... (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
8. 08:56 PM - Re: was Cabane mounting now Dark Stout (DJ Vegh)
9. 10:05 PM - Re: Cabane mounting help.... (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=JIwcL1tB/YZFz+3DDrejdI77pBfzQwBghotObgIdLBIRHNHnuBfQuZPFhYzjMsCnPCrOzOP9V8XzOkgcR9CY2MGSfsCvb3UgwIyOJ1lUTFSaT0vZ45FRKgMGsTRJPtnP9z6GOT8U+xdHQFVj3O5DRb3uPrCvPPShY7phEuEWY6w=
;
Hello Larry,
I know of several friends, some of them now ultralight pilots here, that have
gone to similar health problem, I heard a Doctor say that the heart attack is
mainly because of a health crisis, we are used to be under tension for years,
mainly work problems, we dont pay attention to "signs" and then comes the attack.
The good news is that: from there on, with rehab and care a person can resume
an almost normal life (flying included under Sport Pilot in USA).
Best wishes for your soon full recovery and more years of happy flying.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
I agree with Rick. This is the most common sense
legislation ever to come out of the FAA. You
sefl-certify that you are physically able to fly the
airplane and, with a valid drivers's lic., you can fly
under the rules of the Sporsman ticket. Do the
cardiac rehab and keep your risk factors in line and
you should be able to fly for a long time.
Doc
--- Rick Holland wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland
>
>
> I am also sorry to hear of your heart attack but as
> far as flying an
> LSA (including any Piet), as long as you have not
> failed or been
> denied an FAA physical all you need is a drivers
> license. Doesn't
> matter if you have had a dozen heart attacks.
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:19:16 -0500, John Ford
> wrote:
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford"
>
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > I'm extremely sorry to hear of your plight. You
> gave my daughter,
> > Sarah, a ride in your immaculate airplane last
> summer at Brodhead which
> > she will never forget. It is a phenomenal example
> of fine craftsmanship
> > rendered by a truly first-class individual, and
> I'm certain folks are
> > going to jump at the opportunity to own it. It is
> an absolutely
> > wonderful airplane.
> >
> > John
> >
> > John Ford
> > john@indstate.edu
> > 812-237-8542
> >
---------------------------------
Message 2
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ETAsAhRXUsBxreHgvIpd3U+3l60qJiujcQIUC0DuCQOv4wJpqyP7btcxWYerOl4=
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Hello Larry: Chuck is right. It is too early to think about selling. (
the other posts are right also) I had a heart attack 11 months ago. ( at
age 52!!) I thought it was the end of the world for me, but it was not.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm sure you can work that
out with your employer. Since I go barrelling down the road in an 80,000
lb monster, I figured no one wanted me out on the highway mixing with
school buses etc, but after being released, they tossed me the keys and
said go for it. I don't think any one works for a more cold heartless
company then I. Good luck. Leon Stefan the "cardiac cowboy" We are now
part of an elite pietenpol fraternity.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cabane mounting help.... |
Ok, so my center section was already built when I inherited a fuse that was 1"
wider than plans.....so to keep the cabanes vertically straight, I had to add
a some space to the cabane attach fittings along the top longerons on each side.
So does anyone have an idea what's the best way to fill that space? I'm thinking
a round bushing (sort of like a REALLY thick washer). Or (and this is my preference...),
making a thick piece of Ash shaped kinda like the .040" fittings
I've embedded to the ends of the cabanes....basically "building out" the bottoms
of the cabanes to the "full" thickness...
I typically think about this sort of stuff for months before figuring it out but
my brain is tired and I want to finish this up....someone help me here.....
(I made the attached picture small so hopefully it won't cause any download issues
for anyone...)
Thanks!
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane mounting help.... |
In a message dated 3/22/2005 5:41:49 PM Central Standard Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
Ok, so my center section was already built when I inherited a fuse that was
1" wider than plans.....so to keep the cabanes vertically straight, I had to
add a some space to the cabane attach fittings along the top longerons on each
side.
So does anyone have an idea what's the best way to fill that space? I'm
thinking a round bushing (sort of like a REALLY thick washer). Or (and this is
my
preference...), making a thick piece of Ash shaped kinda like the .040"
fittings I've embedded to the ends of the cabanes....basically "building out" the
bottoms of the cabanes to the "full" thickness...
I typically think about this sort of stuff for months before figuring it out
but my brain is tired and I want to finish this up....someone help me here.....
(I made the attached picture small so hopefully it won't cause any download
issues for anyone...)
Thanks!
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
Jim,
I've been studying your picture, and I see your dilemma. The picture
appears to be the front left lower cabane strut, with a hardware store bolt (used
for pre-fit). Why did you cut the end off the wood that forms the arch ?
I think the first thing to do, is consider all the possible remedies.
Here is the ones I thought of, in the order of their preference:
1) Slant the top of the cabanes inboard, while keeping the bolts in the
horizontal plane - so the wing will still move for & aft. The angle would be
maybe a quarter of a degree. This was my first thought, but I see you already
have the holes drilled in the cabanes. Although, you could use the next size
larger bolt, and file the holes top & bottom, (keeping them round) to maintain
a
horizontal hole....aw, scratch that thought...
2) Offset the upper end of the cabane struts outboard 1/4", and the lower
ends inboard 1/4", thus keeping the cabane struts vertical. This option would
be inline with the old carpenters adage - "Split the Difference". It may
require building new cabane fittings top and bottom.
3) Offset the lower end of the cabanes 1/2" to the inboard, such as your
picture indicates. I don't really like this option, because it seems it would
impart a bending moment on the lower fitting. I take it this would require a
1/2" joggle in the inboard strap fitting ? If you use the piece of Ash wood to
fill the 1/2" outboard difference, I think the Ash should glued into the
outboard sides of the cabanes, and be much longer up the cabane, maybe 4 or 5
inches, and blend into the cabane strut. Also, if you go with this option, I think
you should use the next thicker size inboard strap fitting, with the joggle
in it. The cabanes & fittings should be kept in shear, and with a joggle on
one side, and a bushing on the other side, it just doesn't seem like a good
shear fitting.
4) Build 4 new cabane struts, with the offset built in.
5) Build a new center section.
6) Build a new fuselage.
7) Go get another beer, and sit and look at it for a couple more hours...
Chuck G.
p.s. Jim, I know these parts were already built when you got them, but, OK,
I'm going to say it...This is the reason you hear so often - "Build it to the
Plans". Changes have a ripple effect on everything. One inch wider cockpit
will not make any difference in comfort.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane mounting help.... |
not the answer you want to hear buit if it were me I'd either build a new center
section or make new cabanes that are thicker at the bottom and taper up towards
the top.
The latter option would be easiest and with the different types of wood used for
laminations it'd give a really cool look as the thicker laminations on the bottom
were tapered up at the top.. kinda like the look of a prop.
or.... maybe put your center section in one of those "wood stretchers" and pull
to the desired width ;)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Ok, so my center section was already built when I inherited a fuse that was 1"
wider than plans.....so to keep the cabanes vertically straight, I had to add
a some space to the cabane attach fittings along the top longerons on each side.
So does anyone have an idea what's the best way to fill that space? I'm thinking
a round bushing (sort of like a REALLY thick washer). Or (and this is my
preference...), making a thick piece of Ash shaped kinda like the .040" fittings
I've embedded to the ends of the cabanes....basically "building out" the bottoms
of the cabanes to the "full" thickness...
I typically think about this sort of stuff for months before figuring it out
but my brain is tired and I want to finish this up....someone help me here.....
(I made the attached picture small so hopefully it won't cause any download issues
for anyone...)
Thanks!
Jim Markle
Plano, TX
214.505.6101
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane mounting help.... |
Thanks DJ and Chuck.......
I love getting these new ideas!!!....whether I use them or not, this gets me thinking
out of the box.....
I like the idea of building new cabanes with the offset built in and also the idea
of making the ash "spacer" taper up 4 or 5 inches....I'm thinking new cabanes
is the better of the two.....
Thanks guys!
And Chuck, that hole in the arch piece is where the arch piece cracked when the
plane was ground looped....seems both arches took more stress than they could
handle.....I've left them on while I build everything else just to keep as much
of "the look" as possible (I'll rebuild the front arch pieces). Having a hole
there did turn out nice for the picture though!
As I type this I'm implementing option 7 below.....I'll work out the others later....
Thanks again guys!
jm
Jim,
I've been studying your picture, and I see your dilemma. The picture appears
to be the front left lower cabane strut, with a hardware store bolt (used
for pre-fit). Why did you cut the end off the wood that forms the arch ?
I think the first thing to do, is consider all the possible remedies. Here
is the ones I thought of, in the order of their preference:
1) Slant the top of the cabanes inboard, while keeping the bolts in the horizontal
plane - so the wing will still move for & aft. The angle would be maybe
a quarter of a degree. This was my first thought, but I see you already have
the holes drilled in the cabanes. Although, you could use the next size larger
bolt, and file the holes top & bottom, (keeping them round) to maintain a
horizontal hole....aw, scratch that thought...
2) Offset the upper end of the cabane struts outboard 1/4", and the lower ends
inboard 1/4", thus keeping the cabane struts vertical. This option would be
inline with the old carpenters adage - "Split the Difference". It may require
building new cabane fittings top and bottom.
3) Offset the lower end of the cabanes 1/2" to the inboard, such as your picture
indicates. I don't really like this option, because it seems it would impart
a bending moment on the lower fitting. I take it this would require a 1/2"
joggle in the inboard strap fitting ? If you use the piece of Ash wood to
fill the 1/2" outboard difference, I think the Ash should glued into the outboard
sides of the cabanes, and be much longer up the cabane, maybe 4 or 5 inches,
and blend into the cabane strut. Also, if you go with this option, I think
you should use the next thicker size inboard strap fitting, with the joggle in
it. The cabanes & fittings should be kept in shear, and with a joggle on one
side, and a bushing on the other side, it just doesn't seem like a good shear
fitting.
4) Build 4 new cabane struts, with the offset built in.
5) Build a new center section.
6) Build a new fuselage.
7) Go get another beer, and sit and look at it for a couple more hours...
Chuck G.
p.s. Jim, I know these parts were already built when you got them, but, OK,
I'm going to say it...This is the reason you hear so often - "Build it to the
Plans". Changes have a ripple effect on everything. One inch wider cockpit will
not make any difference in comfort.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane mounting help.... |
Chuck should have stated for option 7... "Go get a Guiness Stout and have a
Corona chaser...
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: was Cabane mounting now Dark Stout |
ahhhhh Guiness Stout!!! I went to Ireland in January for a week and toured the
St. James Gate Brewery in Dublin. at the top of the brewery there is a 360=B0
Compass Room bar that overlooks all of Dublin from about 100' up. In the center
of the room is a huge bar where only Guiness is served... piped in straight
from the brewery.
I had about 6 pints that night and life was good! Since that trip I've bought
about 3 12packs of 11oz. bottles.... when I have a stressful day at work I love
coming home and cracking one open, pouring it into my chilled Guiness pint
glass making sure to attain that perfect 1/2" "Guiness" head, and then savoring.
here's a few pics of the bar and brewery for those interested..... if you ever
get to go to Dublin check it out!!!
www.imagedv.com/guiness/guiness-1.jpg
www.imagedv.com/guiness/guiness-2.jpg
www.imagedv.com/guiness/guiness-3.jpg
www.imagedv.com/guiness/guiness-4.jpg
www.imagedv.com/guiness/guiness-5.jpg
www.imagedv.com/guiness/guiness-6.jpg
DJ
most definatley, undeniably DO NOT ARCHIVE!
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Chuck should have stated for option 7... "Go get a Guiness Stout and have a Corona
chaser...
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane mounting help.... |
<002801c52f5a$ff21e260$6401a8c0@FAMILY>
Don't forget that there's very little stress on that joint, 150 lb or so.
You do have to multiply that by any G you might pull, of course.
Most of the wing forces are taken by the outer spar/strut joint.
Your concern with that long bolt is bending of the bolt. If you check
the plans you will see that a 1/4" bolt is specified at that location.
You will also see that the strut is considerably narrower than the
space between the brackets and a bushing tube is specified all the
way across from bracket to bracket. The tube takes the bending
loads and the bolt, at the bracket/tube joint takes the shear stress
that bolts are supposed to handle, a division of labour if you will.
Even on a plans built fuselage you have 1 1/4" between the brackets.
The metal struts in the plans aren't even half that distance. Thus
the bushing tube.
The shear strength of that 1/4" AC grade bolt is 6133 lb. You have
two shear locations on that joint. with equal stress on each it can
handle 12266 lb.
Now the brackets themselves are 3/4" wide by 3/32" thick with a
1/4" hole. this means that the load bearing metal is 0.047 square
inches. The tensile strength of 4130 is 90,000 lb/sq in. Thus the at
bracket will handle 4218 lb. There are two of them per strut. There
are eight of them per airplane.
When the bolt is longer than a simple shear joint then bending is
introduced. That would throw all the carefull alignment effort out the
window maybe affecting the flying characteristics adversely and
causing other joints to bear more load than normal. Thus the
aforementioned bushing.
So, if you introduce that taper piece and carefully drill and bush it
with 1/4" ID tube you're away to the races ( haha).
Even if you make new cabanes you can't just center the things on
the bolts. You have to span the bracket space in such a way as to
have only shear loads on the bolts.
If you're interested in a graphic of the spanwise lift distribution of a
hersheybar wing it's half way down this page;
http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html
#7 is good. I spent the afternoon with #7 and my favourite accountant,
who has reduced my tax load much closer to zero than I would have
thought possible.
Clif
....
Thanks DJ and Chuck.......
I love getting these new ideas!!!....whether I use them or not, this gets me
thinking out of the box.....
I like the idea of building new cabanes with the offset built in and also the
idea of making the ash "spacer" taper up 4 or 5 inches....I'm thinking new cabanes
is the better of the two.....
Thanks guys!
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