---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/12/05:42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:42 AM - Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs (Rick Holland) 2. 06:23 AM - Re: Steve's trip--tell us more ! (Michael D Cuy) 3. 07:02 AM - Re: Steve's trip--tell us more ! (Steve Ruse) 4. 07:03 AM - Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs (John Ford) 5. 07:26 AM - what a crock this is (Michael D Cuy) 6. 07:45 AM - Re: what a crock this is (Isablcorky@aol.com) 7. 08:21 AM - Re: what a crock this is (Steve Eldredge) 8. 09:15 AM - Re: what a crock this is (DJ Vegh) 9. 09:33 AM - Re: what a crock this is (Gordon Bowen) 10. 10:12 AM - Re: what a crock this is (Jim Ash) 11. 10:24 AM - Re: 3 foot center section - # of ribs (tmbrant1@netzero.com) 12. 10:37 AM - Re: what a crock this is (Sterling) 13. 10:58 AM - Oshkosh observations (Michael D Cuy) 14. 11:01 AM - X-Country, Brodhead (TBYH@AOL.COM) 15. 11:15 AM - Re: what a crock this is (Mark) 16. 11:25 AM - I think this is a NPR (Michael D Cuy) 17. 11:43 AM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Phillips, Jack) 18. 12:08 PM - Re: 0-235 (Norman Stapelberg) 19. 01:09 PM - Re: Steve's trip--tell us more ! (DJ Vegh) 20. 01:14 PM - Re: what a crock this is (walt evans) 21. 01:21 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (walt evans) 22. 01:39 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Michael D Cuy) 23. 01:51 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Eric Williams) 24. 02:06 PM - Re: what a crock this is (Mark) 25. 02:10 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Michael D Cuy) 26. 02:20 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (jansam@comcast.net) 27. 03:49 PM - WOW! - new GN-1 plans available (DJ Vegh) 28. 03:52 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Sterling) 29. 04:03 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Sterling) 30. 04:08 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Dick Navratil) 31. 04:13 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Sterling) 32. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: 0-235 (Gordon Bowen) 33. 04:46 PM - Re: what a crock this is (Gordon Bowen) 34. 05:14 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Gordon Bowen) 35. 05:44 PM - Re: WOW! - new GN-1 plans available (Jim Vydra) 36. 05:45 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Sterling) 37. 05:47 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Mark) 38. 06:45 PM - Air Venture (Paul Schermerhorn) 39. 08:13 PM - Re: Oshkosh observations (Rcaprd@aol.com) 40. 08:44 PM - Re: Poor Eye Sight (Steve Singleton) 41. 10:24 PM - Re: Poor Eye Sight (DJ Vegh) 42. 10:49 PM - Re: Subject: Re: O-200 need muffler? (Steve Ruse) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:43 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs I made 30 ribs, 24 inside ribs, 4 butt ribs (extra vertical brace and 1/16" ply on one side) and 2 tip ribs (extra vertical brace). Could be wrong though, I have not yet finished my wings. On 5/11/05, tmbrant1@netzero.com wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" < > tmbrant1@netzero.com> > > I guess the two ribs I was talking about is one on the center section and > then 1 on the wing - making two per side. I think we still need 30 ribs now > that I look at it again. 2 middle ribs are removed for tank and just the > nose section provided. > > Anyone confirm it's 30 ribs? > > Tom B. > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:00 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Great post and photos Steve.....sounds like Howard was a super guy and Kerry too. Thanks for taking time to link us up ! Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:27 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse DJ, if you are ever in the DFW area, give me a call and we'll go up for a full size shot of motivation. Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX N6383J - KGYI Do not archive Quoting DJ Vegh : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > OUTSTANDING!!!!! I LOVE IT! > > Gave me a moderate dose of motivation! I need those whenever I can grab > them. Thanks for sharing!!! What makes this story mean a little more to me > than others is I have seen this bird, sat in it, closed my eyes and let my > imagination take me on a flight around the patch.... you got to do it for > real ;) > > many thanks for the story > > DJ Vegh > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Ruse" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:43 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" >> >> >> Here it is finally. The last few weeks have been extraordinarily busy, so >> it took me a while to finish this. Sorry if it is too wordy, I basically >> just puked it onto a page when I had time. Hope some of you enjoy it. >> >> http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/ >> >> TACO guys, the next four weekends are packed for me (I'm in two weddings, >> and I'm moving). Very soon though, we should all get together. In June for >> sure! >> >> Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX >> N6383J - KGYI >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:21 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! >> >> >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy >> >> >> Steve-- that is great that you got the plane. Tell us how your x-country >> was and how she flies !!!!!! >> >> Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" While I don't know precisely how many ribs your plane will require, I am told that once it is complete you can actually remove one rib and create an entire new airplane. It will be a female though, need more covering than the plans suggest and be considerable trouble. John Please don't tell my wife I've posted this. do not archive John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> tmbrant1@netzero.net Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:25 PM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Hey guys, I'm planning on building the 3'-0" center section that Bill Rewey has suggested for a larger center section tank. I'm working on my wing ribs now and am wondering how many to make for this design. It looks to me like the two end ribs are "doubled up". In other words, where the center section and the wing connect there are 2 ribs on each side. Is that right? If that's the case do I need 31 ribs?? Tom B. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:46 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:31 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is In a message dated 5/12/2005 9:27:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: Somewhere, sometime if my memory isn't completely gone that there was some reference to these beltway beaurocrats coming out of their closets with dreams of more controls in order to employ more beauros. This will never end. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is From: "Steve Eldredge" Why have I never - ever heard of this? Sounds like they got the pilot vs repairman certificate regs mixed up.... Stevee ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is In a message dated 5/12/2005 9:27:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: Somewhere, sometime if my memory isn't completely gone that there was some reference to these beltway beaurocrats coming out of their closets with dreams of more controls in order to employ more beauros. This will never end. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:59 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is so I'll need a CFI endorsement and signed paperwork from the feds to take passengers up in my Aircamper?!??? nonsense! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:33 AM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another user group. Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:19 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:00 AM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 foot center section - # of ribs --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Very nice Jon... I won't tell your wife but mine will get a kick out of this. We all address our planes as female anyway right... She won't start.. She just didn't want to lift off in that tailwind... She flies like a homesick angel.. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:16 AM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is DJ, don't worry. My soon to be 86 year old dad has an A&P license, commercial ticket, multi-engine, instrument rating, CFI, CFII, 6 type ratings and 26,000+ hours in flights all over the world in more than 53 types of airplanes. He'll fix your logbook next time we are in Arizona, unless the feds outlaw experienced gray haired old timers. ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is so I'll need a CFI endorsement and signed paperwork from the feds to take passengers up in my Aircamper?!??? nonsense! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:35 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but quite a bit. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:11 AM PST US From: TBYH@AOL.COM Subject: Pietenpol-List: X-Country, Brodhead Many thanks for the article and pics, Steve R.! Fantastic! Also, for our English friends flying into O'Hare, there are plenty of hotel/motel rooms at Beloit and Janesville which are on your route between O'Hare and Oshkosh. Those two cities are about 20 miles or so to the east of Brodhead -- you'll seem 'em on the map. Fred B. (Piet fuselage all framed up and now working on metal parts. Ribs are done -- okay, I cheated -- thanks to Charlie Rubecks. Will post some pics one of these days.) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:37 AM PST US From: Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark I called the EAA this morning about this very topic and the press releases are very miss leading. Category and class ratings in the us were not required for experimental airplanes. The way the EAA advisor explained this to me on the phone is that it only applies if you do not have the proper category and class on your pilot certificate. In my case I have no seaplane ratings. Under the old rules there was nothing wrong with flying passengers and landing on the water in an experimental. That is no longer the case. I can still do it myself but if I want to carry passengers in that experimental I have to either get the proper category and class ratings, or jump through the hoops described. The way I read the annoucements was that it made it sound like every homebuilt was essentially a type rating. Gordon Bowen wrote: > This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user > group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects > very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a > loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin > engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers > without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks > or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without > a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an > experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new > homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new > understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still > take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise > without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take > passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that > helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the > the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my > membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm > reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another > user group. > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska > Cozy IV N64CY > Osprey II N64SY > Pietenpol N-1033B > " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an > opinion", John Adams > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael D Cuy > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > > The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly > passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them > to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified > and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who > take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says > current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the > necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. > Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the > bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April > 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their > recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers > requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the > category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in > question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized > flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the > pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show > the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations > Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting > the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any > others for which he or she has done the paperwork). > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:10 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: I think this is a NPR I think this new FAA thing about passengers in homebuilts is a notice of proposed rulemaking......not super clear on that though. It was on AvWeb. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Good post, Mike. I was dissappointed the last time I went to Brodhead at all the growsing and bad mouthing of the EAA that a lot of the Piet community at Brodhead was doing. Has the EAA gotten too commercial? Absolutely. Do they still give the ONLY support to homebuilders worldwide? Yes. I'll bet half the people growsing at Brodhead had a whole shelf full of EAA publications, ranging from Tony Bingelis books to EAA's Wood Aircraft Book". There's a lot that has changed about the EAA, but let's face it - the whole world changes and you must either change with it or become irrelevant. At least EAA is trying to keep young people coming in. I don't like all the corprate sponsorship at OSH, but if it keeps prices down, bring 'em on. As you pointed out, it's still quite a bargain. Jack PhillipsSubject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but quite a bit. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:27 PM PST US From: "Norman Stapelberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 0-235 Went flying in the plane yesterday and WOW what a difference, with the new exhaust it is a lot quieter and I now get 2400 Rpm in the climb. Norman ZS-VJA ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:39 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I will for sure take you up on that! I may be coming to the Dallas area sometime before year's end. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > DJ, if you are ever in the DFW area, give me a call and we'll go up for a full > size shot of motivation. > > Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX > N6383J - KGYI > > Do not archive > > Quoting DJ Vegh : > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > OUTSTANDING!!!!! I LOVE IT! > > > > Gave me a moderate dose of motivation! I need those whenever I can grab > > them. Thanks for sharing!!! What makes this story mean a little more to me > > than others is I have seen this bird, sat in it, closed my eyes and let my > > imagination take me on a flight around the patch.... you got to do it for > > real ;) > > > > many thanks for the story > > > > DJ Vegh > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Ruse" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:43 PM > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! > > > > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" > >> > >> > >> Here it is finally. The last few weeks have been extraordinarily busy, so > >> it took me a while to finish this. Sorry if it is too wordy, I basically > >> just puked it onto a page when I had time. Hope some of you enjoy it. > >> > >> http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/ > >> > >> TACO guys, the next four weekends are packed for me (I'm in two weddings, > >> and I'm moving). Very soon though, we should all get together. In June for > >> sure! > >> > >> Steve Ruse - Coppell, TX > >> N6383J - KGYI > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy > >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:21 PM > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve's trip--tell us more ! > >> > >> > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > >> > >> > >> Steve-- that is great that you got the plane. Tell us how your > >> was and how she flies !!!!!! > >> > >> Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:07 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is <003801c55710$397613a0$39a470d1@defaultcomp> <42839CE7.7030700@dp.net> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Mark, This sound more reasonable to me. Hope this is the case. Guess before if a new pilot , earning his private in a Cessna 150, builds a high perfomance taildragger, and wants to give rides, it IS a receipe for disaster. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark > > I called the EAA this morning about this very topic and the press > releases are very miss leading. Category and class ratings in the us > were not required for experimental airplanes. The way the EAA advisor > explained this to me on the phone is that it only applies if you do not > have the proper category and class on your pilot certificate. In my > case I have no seaplane ratings. Under the old rules there was nothing > wrong with flying passengers and landing on the water in an > experimental. That is no longer the case. I can still do it myself but > if I want to carry passengers in that experimental I have to either get > the proper category and class ratings, or jump through the hoops > described. The way I read the annoucements was that it made it sound > like every homebuilt was essentially a type rating. > > Gordon Bowen wrote: > > > This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user > > group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects > > very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a > > loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin > > engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers > > without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks > > or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without > > a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an > > experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new > > homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new > > understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still > > take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise > > without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take > > passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that > > helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the > > the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my > > membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm > > reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another > > user group. > > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska > > Cozy IV N64CY > > Osprey II N64SY > > Pietenpol N-1033B > > " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an > > opinion", John Adams > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Michael D Cuy > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM > > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > > > > > The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly > > passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them > > to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified > > and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who > > take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says > > current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the > > necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. > > Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the > > bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April > > 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their > > recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers > > requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the > > category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in > > question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized > > flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the > > pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show > > the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations > > Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting > > the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any > > others for which he or she has done the paperwork). > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:14 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations <5.1.1.5.2.20050512134324.021d7de0@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Mike, I've never met you, but I know I'd like you. I like how think. Ain't life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had <<<<<<>>>> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:52 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations 5.2.20050512134324.021d7de0@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy THANKS, Walt ! Life is grand too---it's just a matter of attitude ! Mike ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:15 PM PST US From: "Eric Williams" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Eric Williams" Wow, what a great post. I think I'm gonna go home and watch my NX48MC video tonight as a tribute! Mike, with a little work you could easily turn that into an "Ode to Oshkosh" poem or something that would have a bunch of guys crying like chicks at a Steel Magnolias movie. Seriously though you made some really great points and I feel the EAA really does, for the most part, fight for protecting our rights to do this pilot stuff. Eric >From: Michael D Cuy >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:56:51 -0400 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > >Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had >my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has >gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it >made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > >I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if >you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and >defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my >membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me >or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I >thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still >get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood >work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in >homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the >instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still >reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna >or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under >a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room >in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead >on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and >try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get >suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and >antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs >at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could >sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear >about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon >airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, >I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk >around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors >of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec >radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out >seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a >great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. >I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or >baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great >America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like >the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is >still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of >the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but >quite a bit. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:05 PM PST US From: Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark walt evans wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" > >Mark, >This sound more reasonable to me. Hope this is the case. > Guess before if a new pilot , earning his private in a Cessna 150, builds >a high perfomance taildragger, and wants to give rides, it IS a receipe for >disaster. >walt evans >NX140DL >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark" >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:13 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is > > > > Actually it could be even worse than that. I know of people flying things like gyroplanes around that had no rotorcraft training. It gives them a way to get legal without the huge expense of a rotorcraft ticket. Single engine pilots could fly twin engine experimentals with no multi engine training. Same with seaplanes though for all practical purposes a ratings would be a better choice in both cases.. Interestingly enough your 150 in the hot homebuilt really isn't the target here. Both are single engine land airplanes. A checkout in a Cub and a checkout in a 172 RG and they would easily be legal, but maybe not ready. I am just repeating what I was told and really haven't seen the fine print myself yet, but this at least makes some sense. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:09 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Eric--thank you for the good words. If I can add that this summer I think the only place you'll be able to see Steve Fossett's Global Flyer, The White Knight mother plane, and Space Ship One will be at....Oshkosh. There is some history there. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:17 PM PST US From: jansam@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jansam@comcast.net Well said Mike. I agree about Oshkosh becoming too comercialized, but what other organization has the clout in Washington to look out for the little guy in aviation? Unless something better comes along, I'm sticking with the EAA. Sam NX115SM (reserved number) > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but > quite a bit. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:12 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: WOW! - new GN-1 plans available --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I've been talking with RJ Grega over the past several months consulting him on areas on the GN-1 plans that need changing or improvement. He's been working with a CAD drafter and has released the revised plans. He just sent me a complimentary set today and I must say... WOW! these are nice! all CAD drawn and printed on 24x36 paper. SO much easier to read than the old hand drawn 11x17 plans. Many discrepancies have been corrected and certain areas have been improved. Even though most of you are building Piets I would still suggest buying these new GN-1 plans if you can spare the $75. They are great to have around just to look at or get ideas from. no... Mr. Grega is not paying me to advertise for him... I just wanted to let you all know that a great set of easy to read and clearly drawn plans is just an email away. here's his site http://www.gregagn-1.com DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper N74DV Mesa, AZ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:04 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. Sterling Brooks (Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave home without it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford the > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I could > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the afternoon > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, but > quite a bit. > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:58 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" > > My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in > general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent > years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my > dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his > personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would > not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES > AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to > Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... > > I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not > customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in > the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. > > Sterling Brooks > (Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave > home without it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford > the > > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I > could > > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the > afternoon > > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, > but > > quite a bit. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:39 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Thanks Mike and Jack for two great posts, ]Last year the jet powered semi trucks screaming down the runway at OSH kind of put it over the top for me. I've started to feel that the future of EAA for me is more in the local chapters and smaller fly-ins. I may still go to OSH and SNF but I find less to be interested in, with the exception of getting together with all the Piet guys and shopping the parts tents. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford > the instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I > could sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the > afternoon airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, > but > quite a bit. > > Mike C. > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:46 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" Follow up... When my dad took this same machine to a B-1 Bomber Base (Dyess Air Force Base, near Abilene. last summer) the commanding officer allowed him on the field, and anyone else who owned a PMV (AROUND B1 BOMERS, C-17s, C5A Galaxy... the list goes on) and the CO wasn't worried about my father. In fact, he recruited 4 full bird colonels to lift him up the stairs into the cockpit. Talk about customer service. So I guess if the folks that run Oshkosh are worried that a 26,000 hour retired pilot is going to bump into an airplane with a 5 mile per hour scooter, maybe they should'nt rent handicap rigs! Why then does the Southwest Regional Fly in allow people who have a hard time walking to use their personal rigs? In the world of public relations there is a rule that most PR people keep in mind. It is called the PIE theory. Perception Is Everything. Management in Oshkosh needs to look into this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" > > My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in > general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent > years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my > dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his > personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would > not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES > AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to > Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... > > I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not > customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in > the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. > > Sterling Brooks > (Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave > home without it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > > Guys-- I know this subject brings up many different opinions and I've had > > my "moments" with my disappointment in the way EAA has > > gone, but I took a fresh approach last year to the whole convention and it > > made me step back and think about my frustrations a bit more. > > > > I don't like the commercialization any more than the rest of you, but if > > you approach it with a good attitude, you can absorb all the good and > > defect the bad. I realized that not going to Oshkosh or pulling my > > membership wasn't going to hurt anyone but me.....EAA won't miss me > > or send me a birthday card if I never go again so why be a martyr I > > thought. I went last year and enjoyed the workshops where you can still > > get free hands-on training in metal work, gas welding, fabric work, wood > > work, rib stitching, and more. I enjoyed smelling the fresh leather in > > homebuilts that were so far above my price range that I couldn't afford > the > > instrument panel, let alone the engine and airframe.....but I still > > reveled in the thought that this 'kit' could out-run anything that Cessna > > or Piper would ever put out, and cost less. I enjoyed sitting under > > a tree having an ice cream cone, I enjoyed the $35 a night quiet dorm room > > in Ripon, WI where I could watch the planes flying overhead > > on the approach in the morning or after the airshow, I could browse and > > try on 20 different headsets or gps's or hand-helds....I could get > > suppliers catalogs from Wicks and ACS, I could check out biplanes and > > antiques and talk with owners if I wanted, I could go to eve. programs > > at Theater in the Woods, I could get cool in the a/c of the museum, I > could > > sit wayyyy over in the warbird area and get to see and hear > > about 20 P-51 Mustangs crank up, start, and then taxi out for the > afternoon > > airwshow, I could enjoy listening to the chatter on my handheld, > > I could go join with friends at a campfire in Camp Schoeller, I could walk > > around fighter jets, cargo planes, and more. There were vendors > > of little turbine engines, hear a Kitfox fly with a new Australian Rotec > > radial engine (the kind that our Dick N. has in his new Piet) check out > > seat cushions, new kits, ways to weld pop cans to pop cans (along with a > > great ginsu knife guy that was hilarious) and more. > > I think it cost me $26 to get in every day. Go to a football game or > > baseball game.....go to the nearest Cedar Point, Kings Island, or Great > > America park and it will cost you about the same or more. I don't like > > the commercialization anymore than the rest of you, but Oshkosh is > > still the greatest game around...and I won't stop going because a ton of > > the things that we liked before are STILL there today. Not all of it, > but > > quite a bit. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:51 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: 0-235 Norman, I've got straight pipes on my O-235 powered Piete, what did you put on yours as a muff? Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Stapelberg To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: 0-235 Went flying in the plane yesterday and WOW what a difference, with the new exhaust it is a lot quieter and I now get 2400 Rpm in the climb. Norman ZS-VJA ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:00 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is Jim, It's posted in an EAA communications note. http://eaa.org/communications/eaanews/050509_ratings.html (think I've got this right so you can web in to it if you're an EAA member). I guess it was somewhat confusing. But thrust is: if you've got a new Defiant twin engine experimental, you gotta have the multi-engine rating in order to take up passengers, or seaplane rating for a homebuilt like the Osprey. YOU as PIC can still give it a go solo, even without the rating (your insurance company will be a tad weaselly if you don't have the rating and have an accident solo), but you must have the rating if you're taking passengers in an experimental aircraft. Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ash To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash I'm a little out of touch with the new regs, but can anybody quote specifically which reg(s) require this? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Bowen Sent: May 12, 2005 12:32 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is This thread about FAA regs changes had passed thru the canardian user group I'm a member of a few days ago. General thrust----It affects very few homebuilders. This new reg was and is designed to close a loophole that allowed experimental airplanes that are unique, ie. twin engine or seaplanes (like my Osprey) to be flown with passengers without the PIC having any instructor endorsement in they're logbooks or the required rating, ie. taking up passengers in your Piete without a taildragger rating. As the prior reg was written, it was ok for an experimental PIC to take up a passenger in his or her niffty new homebuilt twin without any instruction or testing. The new understanding of the closed loophole is an experimental PIC can still take their twin engine or seaplane aircraft for a little cruise without the rating in their logbooks but they just cannot take passengers. There is some website of the EAA's in Oshcash WI, that helps clarifies this proposed FAA change, but since I'm protesting the the crass commericalization of the EAA and refused to renew my membership a couple years ago, I cannot access the website. What I'm reporting here is what was posted and discusssed ad nauseum on another user group. Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a crock this is The FAA is underscoring regulatory requirements for pilots who fly passengers in homebuilt aircraft. A new notice would restrict them to flying passengers only in planes in which they are qualified and experienced. Currency and proficiency rules apply to those who take people for rides in their experimental aircraft and EAA says current pilots have until Aug. 31, 2005, to prove they have the necessary category and class ratings for the aircraft they fly. Those who always fly solo will not need to fly through the bureaucratic hoops. Under the new notice, which was issued April 21, affected pilots will have fill out a form and make sure their recreational or higher certificate is in order. Flying passengers requires that the pilot have at least five hours as PIC in the category, class, make and model of the experimental aircraft in question between Sept. 1, 2004, and Aug. 31, 2005. An authorized flight instructor must make a logbook entry attesting to the pilot's proficiency with the aircraft and then the pilot must show the log to a designated pilot examiner or FAA Operations Inspector. A new pilot certificate will then be issued restricting the pilot to flying that particular experimental aircraft (or any others for which he or she has done the paperwork). ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:29 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" Sterling, Across the board, every web based homebuilder group I participate in is very disappointed with the direction of The EAA, INC. EAA has many good qualities and advantages for many GA pilots, but less and less so for homebuilders. These regional fly-ins and web based user groups have been more useful to me and apparently many others, who simply love the homebuilder part of aviation and will take a pass on looking at a $30K avionics package or two million EAA hats and T-shirts. I started going to Oshcash in'73, did the composites workshop for the EAA in '92-93, but lost interest in the entire program when they became too commerical. One of the members of the canard user group is with EAA Oskosh HQ, he admits it's now mainly big business, they have about 750 employees, over 500 acres of land and a multi-million buck budget to support. They have to focus on the big business or they fold. It isn't for the volunteer homebuilders trying to build their planes from NAPA parts anymore. So like you, I'm no longer a member. Anyway wouldn't trade one glorious Alaskan July/Aug day for a free 10 day trip to Wisconsin for the "Air Venture" in hot muggy July/Aug, so I gotta quit bitchin'. On another subject-----------how'd your "lost foam" gas tank turn out? Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska Cozy IV N64CY Osprey II N64SY Pietenpol N-1033B " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an opinion", John Adams, Such is the weakness of my character that I must give voice to that opinion. GB ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:16 PM PST US From: Jim Vydra Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WOW! - new GN-1 plans available --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Vydra Just thought i would mention this......from my career in fire protection I know that getting up to print plans is very expensive.....surprised he can sell em that cheap. --- DJ Vegh wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > I've been talking with RJ Grega over the past > several months consulting him > on areas on the GN-1 plans that need changing or > improvement. He's been > working with a CAD drafter and has released the > revised plans. > > He just sent me a complimentary set today and I must > say... WOW! these are > nice! all CAD drawn and printed on 24x36 paper. SO > much easier to read > than the old hand drawn 11x17 plans. Many > discrepancies have been corrected > and certain areas have been improved. > > Even though most of you are building Piets I would > still suggest buying > these new GN-1 plans if you can spare the $75. They > are great to have > around just to look at or get ideas from. no... > Mr. Grega is not paying > me to advertise for him... I just wanted to let you > all know that a great > set of easy to read and clearly drawn plans is just > an email away. > > here's his site > > http://www.gregagn-1.com > > DJ Vegh > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:39 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" It's guys like you and Chuck Gantzer, Mike Cuy and Jim Markle and dozens of more on this list that embody the spirt of what EAA used to be. I've benefited very much from a lot of info several dozen people on this list who have shared with me off-list. Jim Markle was nice enough to loan me his $60 scissors (two months ago... and offered my dad a place to recline for a while when he was ill on a recent trip to Plano...) Steve Ruse only touched the tip of the iceberg in how great the grass field folks are... They are out there everywhere, I just don't recall meeting any at Oshcash. But the good guys are out there in the sticks (and at Brodhead...) I hesitated when I posted my gripe about the folks in Oshcash, because the organization still plays an important role, but still for liitle people like me that have been beat up by them... I just have a sour taste about 4 very bad experiences I've had, all of which have happened on the grounds at Oshcash. IF ANYONE AT EAA HQ IS LISTENING, I'M MORE THAN DELIGHTED TO EXPOUND ON THE OTHER 3 COMPLAINTS. (Do they even have a PR department?) The tank is looking so cool, I can hardly wait to get all the pieces together so show my TACO pals down here and when I make the big trip to Brodhead (where I plan to invest some hard earned cash in the local motel, eating establishments and at the local EAA chapter in the form of a contribution. Those guys at Brodhead deserve some kind of a trophy or plaque. More work to do on two additional tanks (for a total of three) so I can out-range my pal Chuck Gantzer. God blessed me with a a monster of a bladder and I can outlast almost anyone in the cockpit, so Chuck, be prepared. My 80 HP Aircamper might not work out to be faster than yours, but I can go 8 hours in the saddle... without getting off the horse (and no cheating in a pee cup or drain tube like Chuck...) And thanks Gordon for the tips you e-mailed me on building fiberglass tanks. I'm still out here in the barn "larnin'.." from you guys. (Hey Gordon, Brooks Range, wouldn't that be a great trip in an Aircamper?) Please eveyone excuse my venting... It's warm and humid down south and being a guy who can only afford to own and fly an Aircamper and not a $100,000 homebuilt, I'm not a happy camper when it comes to the guys upstairs in Oshcash. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" > > Sterling, > Across the board, every web based homebuilder group I participate in is very > disappointed with the direction of The EAA, INC. EAA has many good > qualities and advantages for many GA pilots, but less and less so for > homebuilders. These regional fly-ins and web based user groups have been > more useful to me and apparently many others, who simply love the > homebuilder part of aviation and will take a pass on looking at a $30K > avionics package or two million EAA hats and T-shirts. I started going to > Oshcash in'73, did the composites workshop for the EAA in '92-93, but lost > interest in the entire program when they became too commerical. One of the > members of the canard user group is with EAA Oskosh HQ, he admits it's now > mainly big business, they have about 750 employees, over 500 acres of land > and a multi-million buck budget to support. They have to focus on the big > business or they fold. It isn't for the volunteer homebuilders trying to > build their planes from NAPA parts anymore. So like you, I'm no longer a > member. Anyway wouldn't trade one glorious Alaskan July/Aug day for a free > 10 day trip to Wisconsin for the "Air Venture" in hot muggy July/Aug, so I > gotta quit bitchin'. > > On another subject-----------how'd your "lost foam" gas tank turn out? > > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska > Cozy IV N64CY > Osprey II N64SY > Pietenpol N-1033B > " But such is the constitution of my mind I cannot avoid forming an > opinion", John Adams, Such is the weakness of my character that I must > give voice to that opinion. GB > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:32 PM PST US From: Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Sterling wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" > >My gripe a few days ago about Oshkosh was directed not at the EAA in >general, but the attitude the Oshkosh experience has been for me in recent >years. I still enjoy Sun-N-Fun and the Southest Regional Fly In, but when my >dad and I drove thousands of miles in a gas guzzling motorhome (hauling his >personal mobility vehicle with a Texas Handicap Tag) EAA at Oshcash would >not allow him to use it BUT THEY WERE HAPPY TO RENT HIM ON OF THEIR MACHINES >AT $50 PER DAY. We planned on spending 5 days there, but hauled it back to >Texas after one day, his newly purchased handicap machine on the bumper... > >I have three other reasons I think the Management at EAA in Oshcash is not >customer focused, but I'll not eat up bandwidth. They have changed a lot in >the last 10 years (as they should) but not all of it is for the better. > >Sterling Brooks >(Turned in my EAA card 2 months ago... Keeping the AOPA card, never leave >home without it...) > > > Just remember that if you are talking about EAA and the airshows at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun you now are really talking about two different organzations. The airshows are now for profit businesses as Air Venture. Nothing wrong with making money, yet it did not feel the same as my first visit many years ago and I may not go back myself for a very long time. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:11 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=poHqVKRxwwvsc29u0+bWPTMe0C2siqgE5SCiuMA6yeGDhsf/8c4tQ1lKYj/bX9+1Fngvf9nzuUtGDb4ihOYLPl63ImUJ8Q3Stjqby8jHtfo9ShkS0HbO/+ot6uj2ss5zDdUmIA1N4lVMBWIwjmZK5kNzTFrwjoG4UnVDQ6TJXlc= ; From: Paul Schermerhorn Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Venture Go ahead. Beat up on EAA all you want. But where will you be down the road when it is difficult at best (and very expensive) to hold a third class medical. Sport pilot may be down your alley, as well as light sport aircraft & experimental light sport aircraft. And who did Young Eagles? Not any grass roots group that I have heard of!!! These things do take oshCASH. Ya know. Would Space Ship One and White Knight have been possible without the presence of the homebuilt advocacy group? I doubt it. My $0.02 worth. Paul Schermerhorn Even a fish stays out of trouble if he keeps his mouth shut. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:00 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh observations In a message dated 5/12/2005 7:46:31 PM Central Standard Time, sterling@pgrb.com writes: More work to do on two additional tanks (for a total of three) so I can out-range my pal Chuck Gantzer. God blessed me with a a monster of a bladder and I can outlast almost anyone in the cockpit, so Chuck, be prepared. My 80 HP Aircamper might not work out to be faster than yours, but I can go 8 hours in the saddle... without getting off the horse (and no cheating in a pee cup or drain tube like Chuck...) Well Sterling, we'll find out next summer, when we do the flight up north through South Dakoda, Mount Rushmore and Devel's Tower. I've been wanting to do that flight for a long time. Do some exploring up there. Chuck G. can be quite creative hiding a pee cup... ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:14 PM PST US From: "Steve Singleton" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poor Eye Sight ...Hello everyone. I'm just lurking in the shawdows of this list (working on building ribs at present) and I really do enjoy reading eveyone's comments but could some of you please use your Fonts and make your letters a little larger so my less than perfect eyes can read all this neat information. Thanks.. Steve Singleton MO. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:54 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poor Eye Sight Steve, if you're using outlook or outlook express you can click up at "view" then drag down to "text size" select "largest" now your email text will show up very large and readable. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Singleton To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poor Eye Sight ...Hello everyone. I'm just lurking in the shawdows of this list (working on building ribs at present) and I really do enjoy reading eveyone's comments but could some of you please use your Fonts and make your letters a little larger so my less than perfect eyes can read all this neat information. Thanks.. Steve Singleton MO. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:08 PM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: RE: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" Ted, I've been waiting to respond to this until I had a chance to test my new setup. I'm using a David Clark H13.4 headset and an H10-40. I also have a Lightspeed 15K headset that I've used, but it is larger than the DC's so it catches more air. Two weeks ago the Lightspeeds departed a taller friend's head when he was up front in my GN-1, luckily the cord was velcro-tied to the cabane and I grabbed the headset when it was flopping around beside me. That at least says something for the quality of the Lightspeed cable, it didn't break and the headset still works fine. The noise canceling feature is almost useless in open cockpit planes. That fact along with the smaller profile means I'll be using the DC's exclusively in the GN-1 in the future. I'm also using a Troll Avionics Inc. HV-1 Hypervox intercom. This is a four place panel mount intercom, not what you would expect in an Aircamper (it cost me $30 on Ebay). Right now it isn't installed, I just made a "portable" wire harness for it, but I plan to install it out of sight under the panel. It works great, and has more than enough volume even for a noisy Pietenpol cockpit (I have no mufflers on my A-75). Earlier this week I installed mic covers from Oregon Aero on the microphones of both headsets ($12 each). Without the covers, the intercom was virtually worthless. We could talk on the ground, but once we got in the air, the squelch had to be so high to cut out engine & wind noise that we couldn't speak loud enough to activate the intercom. With the mic covers, even my fianc can speak to me with relative ease, and she sometimes has trouble even getting the intercom in a Cessna 150 to pick her up. I was pretty impressed, and now I think the mic covers are a must have if you are going to try to use an intercom in an open cockpit plane. Steve Ruse - Coppell TX N6383J - KGYI -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted Brousseau Subject: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200 need muffler? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Thanks for all the good comments. I guess I will go with what we have on the present 65 Cont. I love the sound. After over 400 hours in it I didn't realize it was noisy. Should have know when we could never get a good conversation over the intercom. On that subject I would like to know if anyone has come up with a good combination of headsets and intercom that works in a Piet. Thanks again, Ted --