Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Spars (Dave Esslinger)
2. 04:45 AM - Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead (Phillips, Jack)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: Spars (Peter W Johnson)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Spars (TRichmo9@aol.com)
5. 07:17 AM - Removing coating from 4130 (Rick Holland)
6. 10:08 AM - Re: Removing coating from 4130 (Frank Metcalfe)
7. 10:13 AM - Re: Removing coating from 4130 (Phillips, Jack)
8. 10:30 AM - Fred B's post (Michael D Cuy)
9. 10:53 AM - drag reduction ideas (Michael D Cuy)
10. 10:56 AM - spar idea (Michael D Cuy)
11. 11:06 AM - what I really miss at airshows....... (Michael D Cuy)
12. 12:47 PM - Re: what I really miss at airshows....... (Textor, Jack)
13. 01:01 PM - Re: Removing coating from 4130 (Dick Navratil)
14. 01:03 PM - Re: Spars (Dick Navratil)
15. 02:24 PM - Re: what I really miss at airshows....... (John Hofmann)
16. 04:01 PM - Re: Spars ()
17. 04:30 PM - Re: Spars (Galen Hutcheson)
18. 07:28 PM - Re: Spars (Rcaprd@aol.com)
19. 07:59 PM - Re: drag reduction ideas (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut@indy.rr.com>
Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions.
My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the
supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see
no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants
about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money
I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay
for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a
laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough.
Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section?
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dave
---
Message 2
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| Subject: | EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead |
I too was there in 1970 (I believe that was the first year the EAA was
in Oshkosh, having been booted out by Rockford). I was 17, with a brand
new Private Pilot's license, and flew a Cherokee Six up from Tennesse.
I still remember all the oil they poured into Hoover's Aero Commander
Shrike after his airshow performance. I vowed then to one day fly my
own homebuilt to Oshkosh. Hope to do it this summer after the big fly
in at Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Bowen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead
Good memories Fred. I hope the teenaged kid that goes to Oshkosh this
year will have some good memories like you still do 35 years later.
It's still hard to believe what Hoover could do with that AeroC, even if
it was the seeds of commercialization taking root at the homebuilder's
convention. Wolfe- "you can't go home anymore" (or something like that,
in Return of the Native), the Old EAA ain't no more. If you find those
grass roots still lingering at Airventure '05, please let me know.
Perhaps I would trade several glorious Alaskan summer days for a trip
back to see the EAA as it use to, but suspect we'll have to rely on
Homebuilder sponsored/organized events like Brodhead or the Canardians
Rough River KY fly-ins to get the grass root started in a field laid
fallow by commerical interests of HQ.
So much for trips down memorie lane..................Get that Piete out
the door, 35 years is too long for a building program.
Gordon Bowen
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
Dave,
Check out http://www.cpc-world.com. I have used a built up spar. A lot
cheaper than a solid one!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Esslinger
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger"
<aquanaut@indy.rr.com>
Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions.
My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the
supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see
no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants
about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money
I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay
for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a
laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough.
Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section?
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dave
---
Message 4
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In a message dated 5/16/05 6:30:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
aquanaut@indy.rr.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger"
<aquanaut@indy.rr.com>
Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions.
My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the
supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see
no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants
about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money
I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay
for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a
laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough.
Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section?
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dave
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
mark markle built a plywood i beam spar that's awsome and pretty simple
Message 5
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| Subject: | Removing coating from 4130 |
How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am
assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it
with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot
piece of flying strut.
--
Rick Holland
Message 6
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| Subject: | Removing coating from 4130 |
A light sand cloth works great. you can get this at Home Depot in plumming.
You can shine it up and sand blast your weld joints. I found this to the
easyest and fastest meathod. You can kinda shoe shine the cloth around the
tubing. Works great.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:17 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130
How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am
assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it
with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot
piece of flying strut.
--
Rick Holland
Message 7
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| Subject: | Removing coating from 4130 |
I used a beadblast cabinet for all the parts that were small enough to
fit in the cabinet. I used a sandblaster for the long/big parts (lift
struts, axle and engine mount).
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130
How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing?
I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been
removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on
an eight foot piece of flying strut.
=09
--
Rick Holland
Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Wow Fred-- great post. You got to hand Frank Tallman his chute ? Too
cool. My first year was 1978 with two
other 'just out of high school a year' buddies and I was blown away.
Karen and I had a super time at Galesburg about 10 years ago for the
Stearman fly-in. There were 100 Stearmans there
and they were the nicest folks......chairs and dogs sitting under the
shade. Very relaxing event.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | drag reduction ideas |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Remove your windshields Chuck for some drag reduction and slip down low in
the seat:))
Kidding of course, but it would work. Try waxing your wing too, really.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 10
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Dave-- see attached chicken-scratch drawing on how I did mine...and how I
would do them in the future.
Mike C.
Message 11
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| Subject: | what I really miss at airshows....... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I
miss seeing
are:
1) Art School
2) Bob Hoover
3) Duane Cole
4) Bob Herendeen
5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet
6) Leo Loudenslager
7) Charlie Hillard
8) Wayne Handley
Mike C
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | what I really miss at airshows....... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Boy, you said it Mike. Those folks were great!
Jack Textor
Des Moines
do not archive
You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the
people I
miss seeing
are:
1) Art School
2) Bob Hoover
3) Duane Cole
4) Bob Herendeen
5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet
6) Leo Loudenslager
7) Charlie Hillard
8) Wayne Handley
Mike C
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Removing coating from 4130 |
Try first wiping with naptha, then sand with emery cloth.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130
How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming
it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire
wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying
strut.
--
Rick Holland
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Dave
Are you located anywhere with driving distance of Madison, Wi. If so, Mc
Cormak lumber is a great deal on spar stock. Great people to deal with
also. Less than 1/2 price of ASC.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut@indy.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger"
> <aquanaut@indy.rr.com>
>
> Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions.
> My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the
> supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see
> no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants
> about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of
> money
> I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay
> for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done
> a
> laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough.
> Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section?
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks, Dave
> ---
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: what I really miss at airshows....... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
Mikey,
Add Bob Lyjack to that list for me.
Back active on the list and working the T-Craft this spring...finally.
Jack Phillips, you about ready for the air again? I will email you off list
later tonight or tomorrow.
TakeCare,
-john-
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I
> miss seeing
> are:
>
> 1) Art School
> 2) Bob Hoover
> 3) Duane Cole
> 4) Bob Herendeen
> 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet
> 6) Leo Loudenslager
> 7) Charlie Hillard
> 8) Wayne Handley
>
Message 16
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Dave,
I have an article from an early 1960's Sport
Aviation on designing a built-up
spar.
I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends an
SASE to:
Greg Cardinal
5236 Shoreview Ave. So.
Minneapolis, MN 55417
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave
> Esslinger" <aquanaut@indy.rr.com>
>
> Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings
> and I'm looking for suggestions.
> My spars are built with a one inch wide
> opening per the plans but the
> supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing
> call for 3/4" spar material. I see
> no reason to not use 1" material except the
> price. Aircraft Spruce wants
> about 600.00 for the spar material and
> before I fork out that kind of money
> I wanted to see if that's the best way to
> go. It seems like a shame to pay
> for all that spruce and then route almost
> half of it out. Has anyone done a
> laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would
> certainly be strong enough.
> Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage
> to widening the center section?
> Any help or suggestions would be
> appreciated.
> Thanks, Dave
> ---
Message 17
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=jgzdgL8iK9nY+TOMWeETjvq3RzYOH7WnyRAGSW4h2+Ejfziz9CcudBwAf1J+9fi85QJJEEfSE9/gJaMzvdsWudVYJVqvUxyifvfQ+x84lsHjsKQZ6gfEv9F7SlIjhXHN0J5QoNY33hgoI24Z/nNY5dqTAXbskmye8OB4ALtH9v8=
;
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Dave, I am building box-like spars. They will have
1/2" by 1" spruce top and bottom beams with a 1/8"
birch plywood sandwich. They will have 1/2" by 1"
spruce diagonals and uprights at each rib location
(the diagonals will be similar to the pattern used in
the ribs). My spars will be 3/4" wide by 4 1/4" high
when completed. The will be lighter but should be as
strong as solid routed spars. I have built some test
sections and I am very impressed with the strength of
this type of spar. The three foot center section just
allows you to have a larger fuel tank in the upper
wing. I see no reason you can't build a 1" wide
box-spar. Perhaps you could build a test section and
evaluate it for strength.
Doc
> >
> > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm
> looking for suggestions.
> > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening
> per the plans but the
> > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for
> 3/4" spar material. I see
> > no reason to not use 1" material except the price.
> Aircraft Spruce wants
> > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I
> fork out that kind of
> > money
> > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It
> seems like a shame to pay
> > for all that spruce and then route almost half of
> it out. Has anyone done
> > a
> > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would
> certainly be strong enough.
> > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to
> widening the center section?
> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Thanks, Dave
> > ---
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Date: 2/14/2005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 18
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Dave,
I think you meant your Ribs were built with 1" opening.
That's the way I built mine too. However, I used 3/4" X 4 3/4" Douglas Fir
spars (quarter sawn), and used 1/8" plywood shims, front and back, at each rib
location - to maintain the spar location according to plans.
As far as widening the center section, the advantage would be to be able
to carry more fuel in the wing. The BIG Disadvantage is the multitude of
things that will change as a result. Bill Rewey widened his center section, and
goes to Brodhead every year. He would be the one to talk with, if you are
really serious about widening your center section.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: drag reduction ideas |
In a message dated 5/16/2005 12:54:59 PM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes:
Remove your windshields Chuck for some drag reduction and slip down low in
the seat:))
Kidding of course, but it would work. Try waxing your wing too, really.
Mike C.
do not archive
Mike,
Yeah, I considered the windshield thing, but then I couldn't see the sights
!! :)
I routinely wax the leading edge of my wing, and on the top back to to the
edge of the plywood. I also wax the prop. It reduces drag, and also helps when
removing bug guts.
Chuck G.
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