---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/16/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:28 AM - Spars (Dave Esslinger) 2. 04:45 AM - Re: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead (Phillips, Jack) 3. 05:33 AM - Re: Spars (Peter W Johnson) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: Spars (TRichmo9@aol.com) 5. 07:17 AM - Removing coating from 4130 (Rick Holland) 6. 10:08 AM - Re: Removing coating from 4130 (Frank Metcalfe) 7. 10:13 AM - Re: Removing coating from 4130 (Phillips, Jack) 8. 10:30 AM - Fred B's post (Michael D Cuy) 9. 10:53 AM - drag reduction ideas (Michael D Cuy) 10. 10:56 AM - spar idea (Michael D Cuy) 11. 11:06 AM - what I really miss at airshows....... (Michael D Cuy) 12. 12:47 PM - Re: what I really miss at airshows....... (Textor, Jack) 13. 01:01 PM - Re: Removing coating from 4130 (Dick Navratil) 14. 01:03 PM - Re: Spars (Dick Navratil) 15. 02:24 PM - Re: what I really miss at airshows....... (John Hofmann) 16. 04:01 PM - Re: Spars () 17. 04:30 PM - Re: Spars (Galen Hutcheson) 18. 07:28 PM - Re: Spars (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 07:59 PM - Re: drag reduction ideas (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:49 AM PST US From: "Dave Esslinger" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead From: "Phillips, Jack" I too was there in 1970 (I believe that was the first year the EAA was in Oshkosh, having been booted out by Rockford). I was 17, with a brand new Private Pilot's license, and flew a Cherokee Six up from Tennesse. I still remember all the oil they poured into Hoover's Aero Commander Shrike after his airshow performance. I vowed then to one day fly my own homebuilt to Oshkosh. Hope to do it this summer after the big fly in at Brodhead. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA/Oshkosh/Brodhead Good memories Fred. I hope the teenaged kid that goes to Oshkosh this year will have some good memories like you still do 35 years later. It's still hard to believe what Hoover could do with that AeroC, even if it was the seeds of commercialization taking root at the homebuilder's convention. Wolfe- "you can't go home anymore" (or something like that, in Return of the Native), the Old EAA ain't no more. If you find those grass roots still lingering at Airventure '05, please let me know. Perhaps I would trade several glorious Alaskan summer days for a trip back to see the EAA as it use to, but suspect we'll have to rely on Homebuilder sponsored/organized events like Brodhead or the Canardians Rough River KY fly-ins to get the grass root started in a field laid fallow by commerical interests of HQ. So much for trips down memorie lane..................Get that Piete out the door, 35 years is too long for a building program. Gordon Bowen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:42 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Dave, Check out http://www.cpc-world.com. I have used a built up spar. A lot cheaper than a solid one! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Esslinger Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:33 AM PST US From: TRichmo9@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars In a message dated 5/16/05 6:30:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time, aquanaut@indy.rr.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of money I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done a laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. mark markle built a plywood i beam spar that's awsome and pretty simple ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:33 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:24 AM PST US From: "Frank Metcalfe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 A light sand cloth works great. you can get this at Home Depot in plumming. You can shine it up and sand blast your weld joints. I found this to the easyest and fastest meathod. You can kinda shoe shine the cloth around the tubing. Works great. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:17 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 From: "Phillips, Jack" I used a beadblast cabinet for all the parts that were small enough to fit in the cabinet. I used a sandblaster for the long/big parts (lift struts, axle and engine mount). Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. =09 -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:10 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fred B's post --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Wow Fred-- great post. You got to hand Frank Tallman his chute ? Too cool. My first year was 1978 with two other 'just out of high school a year' buddies and I was blown away. Karen and I had a super time at Galesburg about 10 years ago for the Stearman fly-in. There were 100 Stearmans there and they were the nicest folks......chairs and dogs sitting under the shade. Very relaxing event. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:43 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag reduction ideas --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Remove your windshields Chuck for some drag reduction and slip down low in the seat:)) Kidding of course, but it would work. Try waxing your wing too, really. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:05 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: spar idea Dave-- see attached chicken-scratch drawing on how I did mine...and how I would do them in the future. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:26 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: what I really miss at airshows....... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I miss seeing are: 1) Art School 2) Bob Hoover 3) Duane Cole 4) Bob Herendeen 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet 6) Leo Loudenslager 7) Charlie Hillard 8) Wayne Handley Mike C do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:55 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: what I really miss at airshows....... From: "Textor, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" Boy, you said it Mike. Those folks were great! Jack Textor Des Moines do not archive You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I miss seeing are: 1) Art School 2) Bob Hoover 3) Duane Cole 4) Bob Herendeen 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet 6) Leo Loudenslager 7) Charlie Hillard 8) Wayne Handley Mike C do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:20 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 Try first wiping with naptha, then sand with emery cloth. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Removing coating from 4130 How do you guys remove that black coating from your 4130 tubing? I am assuming it all has to be removed prior to priming. I have been removing it with a wire wheel up to now but that can take a long time on an eight foot piece of flying strut. -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:58 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Dave Are you located anywhere with driving distance of Madison, Wi. If so, Mc Cormak lumber is a great deal on spar stock. Great people to deal with also. Less than 1/2 price of ASC. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Esslinger" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave Esslinger" > > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm looking for suggestions. > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening per the plans but the > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for 3/4" spar material. I see > no reason to not use 1" material except the price. Aircraft Spruce wants > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I fork out that kind of > money > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It seems like a shame to pay > for all that spruce and then route almost half of it out. Has anyone done > a > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would certainly be strong enough. > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to widening the center section? > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. > Thanks, Dave > --- > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what I really miss at airshows....... From: John Hofmann --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann Mikey, Add Bob Lyjack to that list for me. Back active on the list and working the T-Craft this spring...finally. Jack Phillips, you about ready for the air again? I will email you off list later tonight or tomorrow. TakeCare, -john- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > You know there are a ton of good performers at shows today but the people I > miss seeing > are: > > 1) Art School > 2) Bob Hoover > 3) Duane Cole > 4) Bob Herendeen > 5) Danielle Heligon and Montaine Mallet > 6) Leo Loudenslager > 7) Charlie Hillard > 8) Wayne Handley > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:22 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave, I have an article from an early 1960's Sport Aviation on designing a built-up spar. I'll send out a copy to anyone who sends an SASE to: Greg Cardinal 5236 Shoreview Ave. So. Minneapolis, MN 55417 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dave > Esslinger" > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings > and I'm looking for suggestions. > My spars are built with a one inch wide > opening per the plans but the > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing > call for 3/4" spar material. I see > no reason to not use 1" material except the > price. Aircraft Spruce wants > about 600.00 for the spar material and > before I fork out that kind of money > I wanted to see if that's the best way to > go. It seems like a shame to pay > for all that spruce and then route almost > half of it out. Has anyone done a > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would > certainly be strong enough. > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage > to widening the center section? > Any help or suggestions would be > appreciated. > Thanks, Dave > --- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:03 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=jgzdgL8iK9nY+TOMWeETjvq3RzYOH7WnyRAGSW4h2+Ejfziz9CcudBwAf1J+9fi85QJJEEfSE9/gJaMzvdsWudVYJVqvUxyifvfQ+x84lsHjsKQZ6gfEv9F7SlIjhXHN0J5QoNY33hgoI24Z/nNY5dqTAXbskmye8OB4ALtH9v8= ; From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Dave, I am building box-like spars. They will have 1/2" by 1" spruce top and bottom beams with a 1/8" birch plywood sandwich. They will have 1/2" by 1" spruce diagonals and uprights at each rib location (the diagonals will be similar to the pattern used in the ribs). My spars will be 3/4" wide by 4 1/4" high when completed. The will be lighter but should be as strong as solid routed spars. I have built some test sections and I am very impressed with the strength of this type of spar. The three foot center section just allows you to have a larger fuel tank in the upper wing. I see no reason you can't build a 1" wide box-spar. Perhaps you could build a test section and evaluate it for strength. Doc > > > > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm > looking for suggestions. > > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening > per the plans but the > > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for > 3/4" spar material. I see > > no reason to not use 1" material except the price. > Aircraft Spruce wants > > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I > fork out that kind of > > money > > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It > seems like a shame to pay > > for all that spruce and then route almost half of > it out. Has anyone done > > a > > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would > certainly be strong enough. > > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to > widening the center section? > > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Dave > > --- > (http://www.grisoft.com). > Date: 2/14/2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:51 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars Dave, I think you meant your Ribs were built with 1" opening. That's the way I built mine too. However, I used 3/4" X 4 3/4" Douglas Fir spars (quarter sawn), and used 1/8" plywood shims, front and back, at each rib location - to maintain the spar location according to plans. As far as widening the center section, the advantage would be to be able to carry more fuel in the wing. The BIG Disadvantage is the multitude of things that will change as a result. Bill Rewey widened his center section, and goes to Brodhead every year. He would be the one to talk with, if you are really serious about widening your center section. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:23 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag reduction ideas In a message dated 5/16/2005 12:54:59 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: Remove your windshields Chuck for some drag reduction and slip down low in the seat:)) Kidding of course, but it would work. Try waxing your wing too, really. Mike C. do not archive Mike, Yeah, I considered the windshield thing, but then I couldn't see the sights !! :) I routinely wax the leading edge of my wing, and on the top back to to the edge of the plywood. I also wax the prop. It reduces drag, and also helps when removing bug guts. Chuck G.