Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Re: Turnbuckles (Peter W Johnson)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Turnbuckles (Alan Lyscars)
3. 06:45 AM - Gene's seat belt attach advice (Michael D Cuy)
4. 09:27 AM - Re: Spars (TRichmo9@aol.com)
5. 09:32 AM - plans (TRichmo9@aol.com)
6. 09:41 AM - Re: Spars (Dave Esslinger)
7. 10:53 AM - Re: plans (Lynn Knoll)
8. 12:29 PM - Re: plans (TRichmo9@aol.com)
9. 12:36 PM - plans (TRichmo9@aol.com)
10. 12:55 PM - Re: plans (Robert Gow)
11. 01:14 PM - Re: plans (Chris Cosentino)
12. 01:28 PM - Re: plans (Mike McCarty)
13. 02:37 PM - Re: plans (Alan Lyscars)
14. 03:26 PM - plans (TRichmo9@aol.com)
15. 03:26 PM - Re: plans (TRichmo9@aol.com)
16. 03:28 PM - Fw: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight (Greg Bacon)
17. 04:05 PM - Re: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight report (Christian Bobka)
18. 04:36 PM - Re: plans (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
19. 06:05 PM - Re: Spars (Galen Hutcheson)
20. 07:42 PM - Pitch Trimming ()
21. 08:35 PM - Re: Pitch Trimming (TRichmo9@aol.com)
22. 09:48 PM - Re: Pitch Trimming (Gene Hubbard)
23. 09:58 PM - Re: Pitch Trimming (Rcaprd@aol.com)
24. 10:15 PM - Re: Pitch Trimming (Christian Bobka)
Message 1
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Alan,
Check out http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/> >Aircraft
Systems > Controls and Brakes. I did a complete list of all the items I
needed for my control parts order. It may be of some help.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Lyscars
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Fellows,
Can anyone break down the individual part numbers for the AN 130-167
turnbuckle?
Alan
Message 2
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Peter,
Thanks for that Tip 'O The Day.
Alan
Alan,
Check out http://www.cpc-world.com >Aircraft Systems > Controls and Brakes. I did a complete list of all the items I needed for my control parts order. It may be of some help.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
Fellows,
Can anyone break down the individual part numbers for the AN 130-167 turnbuckle?
Alan
Message 3
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Subject: | Gene's seat belt attach advice |
96be47@mail.gmail.com>
1.96 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more after Received: date
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Rick---though you've already gotten some very good input on your question,
if it is any comfort, I did my attach
anchor method just like Gene Hubbard although used a poplar wood block
about 2"x 3" glued above the lower longeron
with 1/8" piece of ply glued over that block and the longeron, drilled thru
and anchored the JC Whitney airline-type buckles
to that. I can tell you that after encountering severe hot weather
turbulence around Chicago enroute to Wisconsin
that they held me fine thru what I'm sure was negative g turbulence. The
only problem I really had was keeping my
hand gripped to the stick. Solution---just grab the stick a little lower:)
Mike C.
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In a message dated 5/16/05 6:31:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
wacopitts@yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Dave, I am building box-like spars. They will have
1/2" by 1" spruce top and bottom beams with a 1/8"
birch plywood sandwich. They will have 1/2" by 1"
spruce diagonals and uprights at each rib location
(the diagonals will be similar to the pattern used in
the ribs). My spars will be 3/4" wide by 4 1/4" high
when completed. The will be lighter but should be as
strong as solid routed spars. I have built some test
sections and I am very impressed with the strength of
this type of spar. The three foot center section just
allows you to have a larger fuel tank in the upper
wing. I see no reason you can't build a 1" wide
box-spar. Perhaps you could build a test section and
evaluate it for strength.
Doc
> >
> > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm
> looking for suggestions.
> > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening
> per the plans but the
> > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for
> 3/4" spar material. I see
> > no reason to not use 1" material except the price.
> Aircraft Spruce wants
> > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I
> fork out that kind of
> > money
> > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It
> seems like a shame to pay
> > for all that spruce and then route almost half of
> it out. Has anyone done
> > a
> > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would
> certainly be strong enough.
> > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to
> widening the center section?
> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Thanks, Dave
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release
> Date: 2/14/2005
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
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__________________________________
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i copyed the plans and they look pretty good they will cost you 11 dollars
if you want a set ,my address is rt2 box 263 cleveland oklahoma 74020
Message 5
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if anyone wants a set of the plans i have and i havent e mailed you they are
11 dollars.
Message 6
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Doc, Thanks for the info. I'm leaning toward the built up spar you
described. I know that's how they build them in the Quickie's. How did you
do your testing?
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TRichmo9@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:27 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars
In a message dated 5/16/05 6:31:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
wacopitts@yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
<wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Dave, I am building box-like spars. They will have
1/2" by 1" spruce top and bottom beams with a 1/8"
birch plywood sandwich. They will have 1/2" by 1"
spruce diagonals and uprights at each rib location
(the diagonals will be similar to the pattern used in
the ribs). My spars will be 3/4" wide by 4 1/4" high
when completed. The will be lighter but should be as
strong as solid routed spars. I have built some test
sections and I am very impressed with the strength of
this type of spar. The three foot center section just
allows you to have a larger fuel tank in the upper
wing. I see no reason you can't build a 1" wide
box-spar. Perhaps you could build a test section and
evaluate it for strength.
Doc
> >
> > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm
> looking for suggestions.
> > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening
> per the plans but the
> > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for
> 3/4" spar material. I see
> > no reason to not use 1" material except the price.
> Aircraft Spruce wants
> > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I
> fork out that kind of
> > money
> > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It
> seems like a shame to pay
> > for all that spruce and then route almost half of
> it out. Has anyone done
> > a
> > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would
> certainly be strong enough.
> > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to
> widening the center section?
> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Thanks, Dave
> > ---
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Date: 2/14/2005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail =========================e the es Day
--> ======================================================
i copyed the plans and they look pretty good they will cost you 11 dollars
if you want a set ,my address is rt2 box 263 cleveland oklahoma 74020
---
Message 7
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Please explain how you can legally sell a set of Piet plans for $11.00
----- Original Message -----
From: TRichmo9@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans
if anyone wants a set of the plans i have and i havent e mailed you they are
11 dollars.
Message 8
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In a message dated 5/25/05 1:35:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
dknoll@cox.net writes:
Please explain how you can legally sell a set of Piet plans for $11.00
----- Original Message -----
From: _TRichmo9@aol.com_ (mailto:TRichmo9@aol.com)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans
if anyone wants a set of the plans i have and i havent e mailed you they are
11 dollars.
number one theres no name or trademark of any kind on these drawings ,number
2 im not selling anything for profit that's my cost to copy and mail them ,
im just trying to help some guys on the list who want them, as a matter of
fact no where on them does it say they are pietenpol plans and it does say,
this information is to be used for research data only no aircraft construction
can take place using this information as shown .
tom
Message 9
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well im getting emails on the legal end of selling the plans i have im not
selling them . but i did get an email from someone who offered to scan them
and put them on a disc for me ,if you read this email me so we can get it done
then i can email the drawings to everyone free.
tom
Message 10
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Same thing as selling them. The are not your intellectual property to
distribute.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TRichmo9@aol.com
Sent: May 25, 2005 3:37 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans
well im getting emails on the legal end of selling the plans i have im
not selling them . but i did get an email from someone who offered to scan
them and put them on a disc for me ,if you read this email me so we can get
it done then i can email the drawings to everyone free.
tom
Message 11
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris Cosentino <ccosenti@cisco.com>
Are these the plans from this magazine (Sport Aviation)?:
Article:
I Beam/Solid Wing Spar Design
Magazine: SA1961 April - pgs 38
If so, you can order them from EAA.
Wednesday, May 25, 2005, 3:36:44 PM, TRichmo9@aol.com wrote:
Tac> well im getting emails on the legal end of selling the
Tac> plans i have im not selling them . but i did get an email from
Tac> someone who offered to scan them and put them on a disc for me
Tac> ,if you read this email me so we can get it done then i can
Tac> email the drawings to everyone
Tac> free. tom
Message 12
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I think a few people are confused. Tom wasn't offering up a full set of Piet plans,
but a
copy of plans for a box spar and quick connects.
-Mac
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynn Knoll
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans
Please explain how you can legally sell a set of Piet plans for $11.00
----- Original Message -----
From: TRichmo9@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans
if anyone wants a set of the plans i have and i havent e mailed you they are
11 dollars.
Message 13
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Tom,
I'd like a set. Please send me mailing info.
Alan
Portland, Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: TRichmo9@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans
if anyone wants a set of the plans i have and i havent e mailed you they are
11 dollars.
Message 14
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im going out in the morning and getting a new scanner, ill scan these
drawings off in sections and email them out
tom
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In a message dated 5/25/05 3:36:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes:
Same thing as selling them. The are not your intellectual property to
distribute.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TRichmo9@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans
well im getting emails on the legal end of selling the plans i have im not
selling them . but i did get an email from someone who offered to scan them
and put them on a disc for me ,if you read this email me so we can get it done
then i can email the drawings to everyone free.
tohave it your way i will give them away then and
everyone i give them to can give someone else a set and we will still all have
them. except for you
Message 16
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report
Subject: | more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight |
report
Chris,
Thanks for sharing the first flight with us. I almost felt like I was in the cockpit
with you. Great job!
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
www.g-c.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight report
Greg likes to underestimate the situation...
The first flight report of the Pietenpol is as follows:
2:40 was flown in five flights this morning and afternoon. Wind was 1/2 to full
quartering right headwind at a steady 10 kts. Field conditions were dry grass.
Location was Stanton Field, near Northfield, Minnesota. The ship has spoked
motorcycle wheels and tyres rolling on bronze bushings with no brakes and
a tail skid. A straight axle and wrapped bungies provided suspension. The first
flight was 45 minutes, second flight was about 20 minutes, third flight was
about 25 minutes, fourth flight was 25 minutes and the fifth flight was 45 minutes.
A few years ago I wrote a long dissertation on how to select the proper axle location
with the 1929 style wooden gear legs installed on the long "Corvair" fuselage.
I was right on the money in the analysis because at the aft CG loading
that we had, the ship would perform flawlessly on the grass. Travelling 90
degrees to the 10 knot wind, I could turn into the wind by stick aft, windward
rudder, and a burst of power and I could turn away from the wind by stick forward,
lee rudder, and a burst of power. I was comfortable taxiing next to buildings
and other aircraft with very little practice.
I weigh 220 lbs and Greg computed that we needed 100 lbs of ballast in the forward
bag compartment (aft of firewall above passenger's feet) to get loaded CG
at .5" forward of arbitrary aft CG limit (greg will have to give you the datum
and the CG range, etc.)
The ship is powered by an A-65 freshly overhauled with a homemade wood prop that
was made using a duplicating machine copying an old Sensenich W72C42 blade from
about 50 years ago.
The motor mount as originally made had TONS of down thrust and TONS of right thrust
welded into it: like 1" in each direction over the length of the crank.
The angle would be arctan(1/24) . This looked so far out that spools were fabricated
and used to shim the motor back until it had "a little" right thrust and
"a little" down thrust.
On takeoff, a pronounced and uncomfortable tendency to turn left was observed which
required a constant input of 1/2 right rudder at cruise settings and 3/4
right rudder at full power and climb speed. To let up on the rudder would invite
a rapid yaw induced roll to the left. This kept me making almost all the
turns into the rudder (to the right for those of you in Rio Linda). The aircraft
is equipped with the highly calibrated Johnson wind vane type of airspeed
indicator and it showed about 35-40 mph in the climb and about 55-60 flat out.
The engine rpm in a moderate climb was 2100 indicated and the flat out rpm
in level flight was 2220 rpm. The tach has not been calibrated. The rpms sounded
right for 2150 or so in cruise and 2300 rpm (the correct number we want)
level flat out. The left turning tendency is mitigated when power is brought
back to idle. This fact identifies the problem to be a deficiency of right thrust
at the motor mount and/or left offset of the vertical stabiliser. The aircraft
flew well in the 1900 rpm range. I did not feel that much was gained by
running the power up above 2100 rpm.
Anyway, Greg and Dale's initial fix for this vicious left turning tendency will
be first to offest the vertical stabiliser to the left to the maximum degree
we can move it which is about 5/8" at the leading edge of the vertical stab.
This fix will be instituted prior to the next flight. Then the spool spacer on
the motor mount will be adjusted to take out the rest of the left turning tendency
that we find remaining. Those of you still building, plan to allow for
adjustment at the vertical stabiliser leading edge, a little to the right and
a whole lot to the left.
The A-65 equipped Piet is said to have increased vertical surface forward of the
CG which offsets vertical surface aft of the CG. This is destabilizing in the
vertical axis and appeares to be present with the aircraft reluctant to return
to straight ahead after a yaw is induced. I will investigate this characteristic
after the aircraf tis trimmed for hands and feet free flight. I would
recommend that future Piet builders who plan to use an A-65 increase the size
of their vertical stabilizer to help offset the increased vertical area forward
of the CG with the A-65 installations. A little extra way aft has quite an
effect.....
Another tendency the ship displayed was a severe nosedropping tendency. This required
a tiring constant pull on the stick of more than 6 lbs or so. Lettin
go of the stick would hang me on the straps as the nose pitched over.
This could be attributed to engine downthrust or to aerodynamics and needed further
investigation. I found that the pull on the stick was independent of thrust
produced. It is an aerodynamic issue that needs to be cured by either lowering
the leading edge of the horizontal stabiliser or raising its trailing edge.
This is difficult to do in practise as the Vi Kapler rudder hinges are reluctant
to move up or down the rudder spar. Again, current builders, allow for
the ability to raise or lower the leading edge of the horizontal stab by using
shims at the forward attach point only. You may also need a space to exist
between the bottom of the vertical stabilser and the centerline of the horizontal
stab to allow for a slot where vertical positioning of the horizontal stab
can be made. Just give some thought as to how you will allow the leading edge
to be raised or lowered 1/2" or maybe even more after the ship is asssembled.
Knowing that we had 100 lbs of ballast in the forward bag compartment, we removed
40 lbs of it and that relieved maybe 1/4 of the 6 lb pull on the stick. Greg
was concerned that would put the ship aft of the arbitrary CG aft limit. However,
poweroff stalls were performed both with 100 lbs and 60 lbs of ballast
and in both cases the ship had no difficulty in lowering the nose to unstalled
flight upon the slightest easing of aft stick pressure. When the stick was
held full aft, gingerly use of the rudder could hold the ship in a falling leaf
but you had to stay right on it with a good horizon.
There was also a left wing heaviness that was mostly mitigated by shortening the
left front strut by 1-1/2 turns and lengthening the right front strut by the
same amount.
As test flights go, the ship was moderately difficult to fly as it needed continuous
substantial input in all three axes, gobs of right rudder, a lot of aft
stick, and a bit of right stick. I tried taking pictures but gave up after three
because I could not take pictures and fly at the same time.
We will work through each item until the ship flies properly. Ideas, comments,
and insights are welcome.
Chris
Message 17
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1122124382:sNHT29341168"
Subject: | Re: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight report |
Greg and everyone else,
I had meant to write, "There was also a left wing heaviness that was mostly mitigated
by shortening the left rear strut by 1-1/2 turns and lengthening the right
rear strut by the same amount."
I had my struts mixed up on paper buyt not in my feeble mind.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 5:27 PM
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight
report
Chris,
Thanks for sharing the first flight with us. I almost felt like I was in the
cockpit with you. Great job!
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
www.g-c.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: Pietenpol ; Flitzer ; Alan James ; Pete Gavin ; Paul Shenton ; Steve Bryan
; Peter Denny ; Norm Tesmar ; Dan Carroll ; Greg ; Dale Johnson ; Gary Steadman
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more than what greg said: Pietenpol first flight report
Greg likes to underestimate the situation...
The first flight report of the Pietenpol is as follows:
2:40 was flown in five flights this morning and afternoon. Wind was 1/2 to full
quartering right headwind at a steady 10 kts. Field conditions were dry grass.
Location was Stanton Field, near Northfield, Minnesota. The ship has spoked
motorcycle wheels and tyres rolling on bronze bushings with no brakes and
a tail skid. A straight axle and wrapped bungies provided suspension. The
first flight was 45 minutes, second flight was about 20 minutes, third flight
was about 25 minutes, fourth flight was 25 minutes and the fifth flight was 45
minutes.
A few years ago I wrote a long dissertation on how to select the proper axle
location with the 1929 style wooden gear legs installed on the long "Corvair"
fuselage. I was right on the money in the analysis because at the aft CG loading
that we had, the ship would perform flawlessly on the grass. Travelling 90
degrees to the 10 knot wind, I could turn into the wind by stick aft, windward
rudder, and a burst of power and I could turn away from the wind by stick forward,
lee rudder, and a burst of power. I was comfortable taxiing next to buildings
and other aircraft with very little practice.
I weigh 220 lbs and Greg computed that we needed 100 lbs of ballast in the forward
bag compartment (aft of firewall above passenger's feet) to get loaded CG
at .5" forward of arbitrary aft CG limit (greg will have to give you the datum
and the CG range, etc.)
The ship is powered by an A-65 freshly overhauled with a homemade wood prop that
was made using a duplicating machine copying an old Sensenich W72C42 blade
from about 50 years ago.
The motor mount as originally made had TONS of down thrust and TONS of right
thrust welded into it: like 1" in each direction over the length of the crank.
The angle would be arctan(1/24) . This looked so far out that spools were fabricated
and used to shim the motor back until it had "a little" right thrust
and "a little" down thrust.
On takeoff, a pronounced and uncomfortable tendency to turn left was observed
which required a constant input of 1/2 right rudder at cruise settings and 3/4
right rudder at full power and climb speed. To let up on the rudder would
invite a rapid yaw induced roll to the left. This kept me making almost all the
turns into the rudder (to the right for those of you in Rio Linda). The aircraft
is equipped with the highly calibrated Johnson wind vane type of airspeed
indicator and it showed about 35-40 mph in the climb and about 55-60 flat out.
The engine rpm in a moderate climb was 2100 indicated and the flat out rpm
in level flight was 2220 rpm. The tach has not been calibrated. The rpms sounded
right for 2150 or so in cruise and 2300 rpm (the correct number we want)
level flat out. The left turning tendency is mitigated when power is brought
back to idle. This fact identifies the problem to be a deficiency of right
thrust at the motor mount and/or left offset of the vertical stabiliser. The
aircraft flew well in the 1900 rpm range. I did not feel that much was gained
by running the power up above 2100 rpm.
Anyway, Greg and Dale's initial fix for this vicious left turning tendency will
be first to offest the vertical stabiliser to the left to the maximum degree
we can move it which is about 5/8" at the leading edge of the vertical stab.
This fix will be instituted prior to the next flight. Then the spool spacer
on the motor mount will be adjusted to take out the rest of the left turning
tendency that we find remaining. Those of you still building, plan to allow for
adjustment at the vertical stabiliser leading edge, a little to the right and
a whole lot to the left.
The A-65 equipped Piet is said to have increased vertical surface forward of
the CG which offsets vertical surface aft of the CG. This is destabilizing in
the vertical axis and appeares to be present with the aircraft reluctant to return
to straight ahead after a yaw is induced. I will investigate this characteristic
after the aircraf tis trimmed for hands and feet free flight. I would
recommend that future Piet builders who plan to use an A-65 increase the size
of their vertical stabilizer to help offset the increased vertical area forward
of the CG with the A-65 installations. A little extra way aft has quite
an effect.....
Another tendency the ship displayed was a severe nosedropping tendency. This
required a tiring constant pull on the stick of more than 6 lbs or so. Lettin
go of the stick would hang me on the straps as the nose pitched over.
This could be attributed to engine downthrust or to aerodynamics and needed further
investigation. I found that the pull on the stick was independent of thrust
produced. It is an aerodynamic issue that needs to be cured by either lowering
the leading edge of the horizontal stabiliser or raising its trailing
edge. This is difficult to do in practise as the Vi Kapler rudder hinges are
reluctant to move up or down the rudder spar. Again, current builders, allow
for the ability to raise or lower the leading edge of the horizontal stab by using
shims at the forward attach point only. You may also need a space to exist
between the bottom of the vertical stabilser and the centerline of the horizontal
stab to allow for a slot where vertical positioning of the horizontal
stab can be made. Just give some thought as to how you will allow the leading
edge to be raised or lowered 1/2" or maybe even more after the ship is asssembled.
Knowing that we had 100 lbs of ballast in the forward bag compartment, we removed
40 lbs of it and that relieved maybe 1/4 of the 6 lb pull on the stick.
Greg was concerned that would put the ship aft of the arbitrary CG aft limit.
However, poweroff stalls were performed both with 100 lbs and 60 lbs of ballast
and in both cases the ship had no difficulty in lowering the nose to unstalled
flight upon the slightest easing of aft stick pressure. When the stick was
held full aft, gingerly use of the rudder could hold the ship in a falling leaf
but you had to stay right on it with a good horizon.
There was also a left wing heaviness that was mostly mitigated by shortening
the left front strut by 1-1/2 turns and lengthening the right front strut by the
same amount.
As test flights go, the ship was moderately difficult to fly as it needed continuous
substantial input in all three axes, gobs of right rudder, a lot of aft
stick, and a bit of right stick. I tried taking pictures but gave up after
three because I could not take pictures and fly at the same time.
We will work through each item until the ship flies properly. Ideas, comments,
and insights are welcome.
Chris
Message 18
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The Copyright has long run out on the Aircamper. Note there is on copyright
on the magizines the EAA puts out. Anyone can sale them for what they can.
Thats how someone can share them. Now new work is another story.
Howdy
Message 19
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=3w1rbDLaRFKKuk36hOVWnzvN5E0oAbSdirXSVJNmqUGFUIRGKEp30yuj8JXOMhfbbRjOaxDKHm/FA4vXMqdFBQMhQaW1tMvu4KcYnCv7OobD/TOMvVse14fdDBjI2SDH8nJr1PLxuW1LE1KIWrMg991/rpxyNxzhXe/Fih4Dm/I=
;
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Dave, I'm still in the process of testing (need more
weights to complete the tests). My wings will have a
5' span between struts (2-bay biplane-JN-4 design). I
made an "A" frame with the 5' section being the cross
member and just started attaching weights to the
center point (CG) of the spar. Up to 100lbs and no
problems. I will test them in sheer (flat side down)
to test the drag/anti-drag strength. The weights I'm
using came from a weight machine I bought salvage from
our local metal scrap yard. I attach a 1/8" cable to
the center of the spar/beam with a braided loop on
both ends and hang the weights with a "come-along".
The weights have a piece of cable threaded through
them to hold them together. These type weights give
me a fairly accurate measurement of the amount of
weight I am using. The Piet spars are longer spans,
but you should be able to test them the same way.
Best wishes,
Doc
--- Dave Esslinger <aquanaut@indy.rr.com> wrote:
> Doc, Thanks for the info. I'm leaning toward the
> built up spar you
> described. I know that's how they build them in the
> Quickie's. How did you
> do your testing?
> Dave
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> =========================e the es Day
> -->
>
======================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> i copyed the plans and they look pretty good they
> will cost you 11 dollars
> if you want a set ,my address is rt2 box 263
> cleveland oklahoma 74020
> ---
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Date: 2/14/2005
>
Message 20
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NX18235 is displaying a significant nose-down pitching tendency. Approximately
6 pounds of aft stick force is required to maintain level flight.
Has anyone corrected a pitching tendency by simply adjusting the forward stabilizer
bracing cables?
Shimming the stabilizer at this point in the game would require a significant amount
of work.
Greg Cardinal
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Pitch Trimming |
In a message dated 5/25/05 9:43:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
gcardinal@mn.rr.com writes:
NX18235 is displaying a significant nose-down pitching tendency.
Approximately 6 pounds of aft stick force is required to maintain level flight.
Has anyone corrected a pitching tendency by simply adjusting the forward
stabilizer bracing cables?
Shimming the stabilizer at this point in the game would require a
significant amount of work.
Greg Cardinal
greg i think the work on your plane is awsome the seats are a work of art
and the wood work is top notch . tom
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Pitch Trimming |
Another standard approach is to put a fixed trim tab on the elevator.
Bend the tab down to make the elevator go up and relieve the stick
force. I'm not sure I could deal with the aesthetics of a warped
stabilizer. But that might just be me. I wonder how much it would take...
Gene
gcardinal@mn.rr.com wrote:
> NX18235 is displaying a significant nose-down pitching tendency.
> Approximately 6 pounds of aft stick force is required to maintain
> level flight.
> Has anyone corrected a pitching tendency by simply adjusting the
> forward stabilizer bracing cables?
>
> Shimming the stabilizer at this point in the game would require a
> significant amount of work.
>
> Greg Cardinal
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Pitch Trimming |
In a message dated 5/25/2005 9:43:19 PM Central Standard Time,
gcardinal@mn.rr.com writes:
NX18235 is displaying a significant nose-down pitching tendency.
Approximately 6 pounds of aft stick force is required to maintain level flight.
Has anyone corrected a pitching tendency by simply adjusting the forward
stabilizer bracing cables?
Shimming the stabilizer at this point in the game would require a significant
amount of work.
Greg Cardinal
Greg,
A big Congratulations to you and Dale for the completion of your plane !!
And Chris B. for doing the first flights, with a very informative report of
the first flights.
Adjusting the leading edge of the horiz stab down, does indeed help the
nose down pitch tendency. I adjusted mine down on three different occasions,
lengthening the top turnbuckles by 2 turns, and tightening the bottom ones by
2 turns. Each time it helped, but didn't cure it. Standing in front of the
plane, you could see the leading edge of the stab, how it curved down on each
side. I finally added a fixed trim tab on the elevators (flippers). I made
it from balsa wood, blending the trailing edge of the flippers into the trim
tabs. Each is about 5" long, and have a chord of about 2" and angled down about
10=BA. Initially, I tested the positon of the trim tab holding it on with duct
tape. When I was satisfied with the placement, I used fabric & paint for the
final install. With these trim tabs, I was able to remove all the leading
edge down adjustments of the horiz stab, and now the stab is straight. I could
take some pictures of it if you're interested.
I believe some of the pitch down tendency when you pull power, can be
attributed to the drag of the landing gear. Does it climb with full power,=20and
no back pressure on the stick ? I would also suggest you check the symatry
again, as well as wing washout - doesn't take much time.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
NX770CG
Short Fuselage, Continental A65, engine mount with 1/8" right thrust and
plans amount of down thrust - built 8" longer than plans (with heavier wall
tubing), no ballast, no vertical stab offset, 630 lbs. empty weight. I weigh
210
lbs
Message 24
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d="scan'208,217"; a="947521531:sNHT47923876"
Subject: | Re: Pitch Trimming |
Chuck,
It requires the same back pressure on the stick whether power at full or at idle
and at all airspeeds (hi and low alpha), both with full or idle power. In other
words, the pitchdown tendency is independent of the power and the angle of
attack of the wing.
Greg and Dick Navratil had a conference call this evening and we determined that
we are operation at very close to the same CG which is about 19-20" aft of the
leading edge of the wing. What about with your ship?
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pitch Trimming
In a message dated 5/25/2005 9:43:19 PM Central Standard Time, gcardinal@mn.rr.com
writes:
NX18235 is displaying a significant nose-down pitching tendency. Approximately
6 pounds of aft stick force is required to maintain level flight.
Has anyone corrected a pitching tendency by simply adjusting the forward stabilizer
bracing cables?
Shimming the stabilizer at this point in the game would require a significant
amount of work.
Greg Cardinal
Greg,
A big Congratulations to you and Dale for the completion of your plane !!
And Chris B. for doing the first flights, with a very informative report of the
first flights.
Adjusting the leading edge of the horiz stab down, does indeed help the
nose down pitch tendency. I adjusted mine down on three different occasions,
lengthening the top turnbuckles by 2 turns, and tightening the bottom ones by
2 turns. Each time it helped, but didn't cure it. Standing in front of the
plane, you could see the leading edge of the stab, how it curved down on each
side. I finally added a fixed trim tab on the elevators (flippers). I made it
from balsa wood, blending the trailing edge of the flippers into the trim tabs.
Each is about 5" long, and have a chord of about 2" and angled down about
10=BA. Initially, I tested the positon of the trim tab holding it on with duct
tape. When I was satisfied with the placement, I used fabric & paint for the
final install. With these trim tabs, I was able to remove all the leading
edge down adjustments of the horiz stab, and now the stab is straight. I could
take some pictures of it if you're interested.
I believe some of the pitch down tendency when you pull power, can be attributed
to the drag of the landing gear. Does it climb with full power, and no
back pressure on the stick ? I would also suggest you check the symatry again,
as well as wing washout - doesn't take much time.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
NX770CG
Short Fuselage, Continental A65, engine mount with 1/8" right thrust and plans
amount of down thrust - built 8" longer than plans (with heavier wall tubing),
no ballast, no vertical stab offset, 630 lbs. empty weight. I weigh 210
lbs
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