---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/05/05: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:11 AM - Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: Hello! (Phillips, Jack) 3. 06:19 AM - Supplemental Pietenpol Plan Packages link. (Keri-Ann Price) 4. 06:24 AM - Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 (Rick Holland) 5. 02:40 PM - Re: Pietenpol on film (Michael D Cuy) 6. 03:05 PM - Re: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 From: harvey.rule@bell.ca FILETIME=[36C552D0:01C58152] I understand what you are going through.I tried to register my Piet as an ultralight up here in Canada.After talking to the right person after months of haggling ,I finally got my plane registered as an ultralight.I was going to have to register as a home built otherwise which was going to cost me over 7000$ cnd in the long run.As an ultralight it cost me 20$ for a new ID plate.Go figure.A lot of what you get with the government depends on who you talk to.Try again with a different person and your liable to get what you want. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal@mn.rr.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not successful. We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider. All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft, not experimentals. Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted and NX18235 was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching" All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the AB-DAR. He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???, that says experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft. We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a "Glider" to an "Airplane, Single engine, Land". This added several months to our ordeal. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 There are actually two other options for medical denied/revoked pilots, =09 1) Real ultralight - like this - http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm =09 2) Motorglider, like this - http://www.sonex-ltd.com/xenos.html (there are some plans-built motorgliders, wondering if anyone has ever attempted to make a Piet motorglider?) =09 A motorglider is defined as an aircraft that is under 1874 pounds gross, two seat max, and a span loading (gross weight divided by wingspan squared) no more than 0.62 lb./sq. ft. =09 So a Piet has a span loading of about 1100/29 * 29 1.308. So if you just increased the wingspan to 42 ft. you would have a motorglider. (Highly unrecommended). =09 Rick H. =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 On 7/1/05, Stephen! wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stephen!" =09 =09 =09 Gordon Bowen wrote: =09 > So here's a tip of you older guys with any FAA medical class =09 Sorry to hear about your medical problems, Gordon. There's a lot of guy around here that had to give up power all together and go glider... =09 > Gordon Bowen -Homer Alaska =09 Hey... Does Tom Bodette still do his radio show from up there? I haven't heard him on the air for a good number of years now. =09 =09 -- IBA# 11465 http://imagesde =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello! From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" As Walt Evans said, the best books for learning how to build an airplane are the 4 Tony Bingelis books: The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on Engines. In addition, I learned a lot from the EAA Aircraft Welding book, and their Aircraft Woodworking book. If not an EAA member, by all means join. If there is a local chapter that you can visit, even better, but you can get a lot of benefit from belonging to the national organization. Go on their website, www.eaa.org and click on the members only section, then go to "homebuilder's headquarters". There you can find articles from past issues of Sport Aviation that will answer most of your questions. As someone else advised, buy the plans and study them before committing to materials and tools. You can build a Pietenpol with simple hand tools, but it will be easier if you have a good belt sander, a bandsaw, a metal cutting bandsaw (that can be slowed down to 80 fpm on the blade speed for cutting steel) and an oxy-acetylene welding rig. There are a number of major decisions that need to be made when building a Pietenpol, including: Engine type (Ford "A", Corvair, Continental, or other?) Short or Long fuselage 1-piece or 3-piece wing Cub-style or straight axle landing gear Sitka Spruce, Douglas Fir or other wood? Resorcinol, T-88, Aerolite or other glues? Tailwheel and brakes, or tailskid and no brakes? This ain't no stinkin' kitplane where all these decisions are already made for you and you just have to bolt the assembly together. This is one of the beauties and the challenges of building a Pietenpol, and why no two of them are alike. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stephen!" Gordon Bowen wrote: > itself to the be best homebuilt for ease of building and ease of adapting > where needed. "adapting"... That, I like... Where is the best place to learn about the process of building outside of the actual building process its self? Where can I find an easy to understand, comprehensive list (perhaps?) of what I need to do to get this thing off the ground, so to speak. I'm sure it cannot be as simple as just gettin' 'er done and jumping in for a flight. For example, are there progressive FAA inspections that need to be done and such? I am a pilot, I am a craftsman, I have yet to combine the two and know not where to start... Have I made any sense in my questions or have I just confused you? -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:34 AM PST US From: "Keri-Ann Price" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Supplemental Pietenpol Plan Packages link. Keri-Ann's Supplemental Pietenpol Plan Package Link ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:30 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 Interesting, I was thinking of the same thing. Do you think it is worth trying? On 7/4/05, gcardinal@mn.rr.com wrote: > > Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not > successful. > We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would > prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider. > All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft, > not experimentals. > Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted > and NX18235 > was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching" > All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the > AB-DAR. > He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???, > that says > experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft. > We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a > "Glider" to > an "Airplane, Single engine, Land". > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:09 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol on film --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Bill-- I really like how after they show the Pietenpol fly over they show the shadow of the biplane. Hah ! Too funny. Mike C. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:40 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 Rick, We made the initial application prior to Sport Pilot being approved. It made sense to try it at the time. Joe Norris and gang at EAA OSH said we weren't the first to try and no one had been successful. Because of the FAA order it can't be done. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Pilot Lic, Medical Catch-22 Interesting, I was thinking of the same thing. Do you think it is worth trying? On 7/4/05, gcardinal@mn.rr.com wrote: Dale and I just tried to register ours as a motorglider. We were not successful. We did a thorough search of the regs and could find no reason that would prohibit registering an experimental as a motorglider. All of the regs that discussed span loading are for certified aircraft, not experimentals. Our initial airworthiness application that was sent to OKC was accepted and NX18235 was listed in the FAA database as a "Glider, Self-launching" All of the paperwork was approved by the local MIDO and sent on to the AB-DAR. He denied the application based on an obscure FAA order, 8130.2-F ???, that says experimentals must meet the same criteria as certified aircraft. We then had to submit an amendment to our application changing it from a "Glider" to an "Airplane, Single engine, Land". -- Rick Holland