Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Rudder issue appears solved (Phillips, Jack)
2. 04:49 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Phillips, Jack)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Michael D Cuy)
5. 09:01 AM - What kind of pulleys to use? (Egan, John)
6. 09:20 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com)
7. 09:43 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka)
8. 10:32 AM - Re: What kind of pulleys to use? (Mark)
9. 11:43 AM - Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Steve Ruse)
10. 01:59 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (DJ Vegh)
11. 06:51 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Dick Navratil)
12. 07:36 PM - Info on Continental engines (Michael Turrell)
13. 07:43 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
14. 07:44 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
15. 07:48 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
16. 07:51 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Andimaxd@aol.com)
17. 07:53 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@aol.com)
18. 07:54 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@aol.com)
19. 09:11 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka)
20. 09:12 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka)
21. 09:12 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Christian Bobka)
22. 09:59 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Steve Ruse)
23. 10:29 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Christian Bobka)
24. 10:35 PM - more on Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Christian Bobka)
Message 1
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Subject: | Rudder issue appears solved |
Good that you found it! I was wondering about all the right rudder you
were having to hold. I have to hold a tiny bit to keep mine straight,
but certainly not enough to cause a cramp. If I fly it feet off, the
nose will slowly wander off to the left. Not enough to warrant "uglying
it up" with a trim tab on the rudder.
Finished my 25 hours last night. No squawks on the airplane. I leave
for Brodhead via Cleveland tomorrow morning.
I'm looking forward to meeting a bunch of the folks I've corresponded
with over the years I've been building this thing.
Jack Phillips
"Icarus Plummet", NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder issue appears solved
We have only a few more hours to fly off on the Pietenpol. Then off to
Brodhead on Thursday. I have been wrestling with the
right-rudder-needing- to-be-held problem now for 36 or so flight hours.
The answer was still elusive until today. My leg was cramping from
always having to hold right rudder. Anyway, I fly today from Stanton
down to Faribault and notice that Cliff Hatz was down below so now
knowing I could get a start when it was time to leave, I elected to land
and chat with him. While there, I decided I would grab the tiedown kit,
folding chair, and pillow from the Cessna 140 as I would need the stuff
at Brodhead. I wedged the pillow down to the left of the stick assembly
in the front cockpit and then folded the left rudder pedal aft and put
the chair down on the pillow fore and aft with one end at the firewall
and the other end just forward of full extension on the left rudder
input for the aft cockpit's rudder bar. I took off and there was no
need to hold right rudder. Like magic, the need to hold it disappeared.
I then flew over to Stanton and started to unload. And then I found
them. Dale had put springs between the front cockpit's rudder pedals
and the firewall. They were incredibly big too. No wonder! As it
turns out, he sized them to match the size of spring normally found
between the rudder and the tailwheel arms! Yikes!
We disconnected the cables between the rudder bar and the front rudder
pedals and there must have been a 5 pound pull on the cable due to the
spring.
Could you imagine if one rudder cable broke or otherwise became
disconnected? You would have had a hard over rudder with no way for it
to aerodynamically streamline itself. Yikes! I told him "no springs at
all". I should have looked sooner. I am embarrassed!
Chris
Message 2
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Subject: | Mixture & Altitude |
Dick, I can tell you that at 95 degrees mine doesn't thrill me with the climb.
I fly out of a 2,000' strip with tall trees at the end. Flew it last night with
a half tank of fuel and me alone. By the end of the runway I cleared the
trees by about 25'. I get about 200 fpm climb out of it (density altitude was
about 2400'). Haven't tried taking a heavy load yet at those temperatures.
If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my "ride giving" to 18 to 20
year old females, as long as they aren't wearing too many heavy clothes.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
Hey Chuck
I am just curious about your performance at 95 degrees on climb. It has been quite
hot here also and I've not wanted to go out in it. I tried it at about 89
last year with full fuel and 80 lb in the front seat and I didn't climb all
that well. I was also a bit concerned about the heat bubble on our paved runway.
I'll be leaving Fri am. See ya'll mid aft.
Dick N.
NX2RN
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
I did my first flight with the new mixture control, and CHT & EGT, this
evening. I kept track of all the paramaters, but I don't have it with me now.
I climbed full power to 5000 feet, the pulled power back to 1900 rpm, and climbed
on up to 6400 feet, and tried the mixture control at each 1000 foot incriment,
and it didn't give any increase in rpm. Kind of disapointing for the
first flight test. This was just the first flight test, with many more to come.
The sun wouldn't wait for me, so I had to return to earth...
I've never had my ol' Pietenpol up any higher than 3500 - 4000. The earth
sure looks different up there, and it wasn't too cold, about 95=BA on the
ground, and about 70=BA.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 3
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1156017852:sNHT85794270"
Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
Are all the parts inside the carb? Two brass discs, gasket underneath the bottom
disk, screw, spring, and shaft?
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
I did my first flight with the new mixture control, and CHT & EGT, this evening.
I kept track of all the paramaters, but I don't have it with me now. I climbed
full power to 5000 feet, the pulled power back to 1900 rpm, and climbed
on up to 6400 feet, and tried the mixture control at each 1000 foot incriment,
and it didn't give any increase in rpm. Kind of disapointing for the first
flight test. This was just the first flight test, with many more to come. The
sun wouldn't wait for me, so I had to return to earth...
I've never had my ol' Pietenpol up any higher than 3500 - 4000. The earth sure
looks different up there, and it wasn't too cold, about 95=BA on the ground,
and about 70=BA.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Chuck-- in ground tests of your mixture control, you should be able to lean
out the mixture until the engine
begins to falter/drop RPM. Mine did this about 1/4" to 3/8" travel on the
arm sweep radius. I could easily have
shut the engine down with the control (like most others do with mixture
control). If you do have all the parts in there
as Chris says, even though you are not showing an rpm increase, you are
leaning the mixture some with the movement
aft before the rpms show any indication. In wiring my mixture just a bit
lean of full rich I stopped the carbon dust on
my plugs and exhaust stack ID's.
See you in the land of cheese and cows,
Mike C.
Message 5
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Subject: | What kind of pulleys to use? |
FILETIME=[DCEFDE80:01C58D43]
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
My question concerns control pulleys. Is there a preferred pulley type
to use for the controls? Material type? I plan to drive to Broadhead
and Oshkosh and ask more questions and take photos. When you place two
pulleys next to each other as on the torque tube assembly, do you place
a washer between them and on the outside of the pulleys where they would
contact the mounting flange? Are good used pulleys o.k. I have some.
I'm still new at this and do not currently fly. Relocated from the east
coast to Wisconsin last fall and am building.
Also, Do people use head sets in a Piet? I have 5 David Clark head
sets, and need to know if I should try to sell all five in the EAA Fly
Market, or keep two of them. I plan to hear Corvair noise from my Piet
if that makes a difference.
John
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged,
confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure
under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly
by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy.
Thank you.
==============================================================================
Message 6
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Subject: | Mixture & Altitude |
Jack,
Can I take pictures of those 19-20 year olds getting in the front
cockpit?
:-)
Jack Textor
Des Moines
Sweating already!
No not archive
________________________________
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Phillips, Jack
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
Dick, I can tell you that at 95 degrees mine doesn't thrill me with the
climb. I fly out of a 2,000' strip with tall trees at the end. Flew it
last night with a half tank of fuel and me alone. By the end of the
runway I cleared the trees by about 25'. I get about 200 fpm climb out
of it (density altitude was about 2400'). Haven't tried taking a heavy
load yet at those temperatures. If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be
limiting my "ride giving" to 18 to 20 year old females, as long as they
aren't wearing too many heavy clothes.
Jack Phillips
Message 7
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1031021779:sNHT130298548"
Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
Actually, for Weight and Balance purposes, it is necessary that they fly in the
rear cockpit.
chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Textor, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
Jack,
Can I take pictures of those 19-20 year olds getting in the front cockpit?
J
Jack Textor
Des Moines
Sweating already!
No not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:46 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
Dick, I can tell you that at 95 degrees mine doesn't thrill me with the climb.
I fly out of a 2,000' strip with tall trees at the end. Flew it last night
with a half tank of fuel and me alone. By the end of the runway I cleared the
trees by about 25'. I get about 200 fpm climb out of it (density altitude was
about 2400'). Haven't tried taking a heavy load yet at those temperatures.
If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my "ride giving" to 18 to 20
year old females, as long as they aren't wearing too many heavy clothes.
Jack Phillips
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: What kind of pulleys to use? |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.569, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.03,
BAYES_00 -2.60)
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
>Also, Do people use head sets in a Piet? I have 5 David Clark head
>sets, and need to know if I should try to sell all five in the EAA Fly
>Market, or keep two of them. I plan to hear Corvair noise from my Piet
>if that makes a difference.
>
>John
>
>
John If you value your hearing you should use a headset in anything.
Noise levels are enough over time to do a great deal of damage. David
Clarks are excellent in noise cancellation and will protect you from
that problem. There are kits out there that can make them an active
noise cancelling and some offer greater comfort. The trick to making a
David Clark comfortable is to pick you out a set and never let anyone
else wear them. The band for me actually seemed to conform to my head
and was comfortable for a very long time. If someone else happened to
wear them for one reason or another, it would bother me for a flight or two.
What's confortable is so personal its up to you. Check out the new
Lightspeeds. For me they were very comfortable. If I were you though
got from selling the two headsets to invest in a good intercom to go in
the Piet so you can enjoy some conversation to who ever happens to get a
ride.
Message 9
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Subject: | Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com>
This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb prop was
damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry A&P).
The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub
entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the hub
when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, what
is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine crank?
Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to make
an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is the
hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to make
an adapter.
Thanks!
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I'm not sure what tool is used on an A-65 hub but I do know that for make
shift torquing (sp?) of bolts that require odd tools you can't go wrong with
a steel pipe of known length slipped over the tool and a pull type spring
scale.
drill a hole in the pipe 24" (or so) from the end, slip the scale hook into
it and pull on the other end of the scale to desired reading. remember to
do the math to get the reading you need. It gets you pretty darned close.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse
<steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb
prop was
> damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry
A&P).
> The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub
> entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the
hub
> when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub,
what
> is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine
crank?
>
> Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to
make
> an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is
the
> hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to
make
> an adapter.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - KFTW
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat
torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and
had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove.
Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think
we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a
official tool for doing this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse
> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb
> prop was
> damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry
> A&P).
> The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub
> entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the
> hub
> when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub,
> what
> is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine
> crank?
>
> Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to
> make
> an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is
> the
> hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to
> make
> an adapter.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - KFTW
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Info on Continental engines |
Thought I would share a web site on Continental engine questions and trouble shooting.My understanding is you can query this gentleman with any problems you might be encountering.If I'm wrong it is still an interesting read for those with A65, 75's etc.http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm Hope it is useful.
Regards ,Mike
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
In a message dated 7/20/2005 2:20:45 AM Central Standard Time,
horzpool@goldengate.net writes:
Hey Chuck
I am just curious about your performance at 95 degrees on climb. It has been
quite hot here also and I've not wanted to go out in it.
Dick,
It's quite an anemic climb rate, when temps are that high. The density
altitude at the time was something like 3300', but I only had about 3/4 fuel load,
and was not at gross weight. It took 5 minutes between 1000' increments,
which puts it at about 200 fpm. When I pulled power at 5000', it took 10 minutes
to climb to 6000'.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:02:16 AM Central Standard Time,
sbobka@charter.net writes:
Are all the parts inside the carb? Two brass discs, gasket underneath the
bottom disk, screw, spring, and shaft?
Chris
Yep, they sure are. I got a very informative document from Oscar, about the
Stromberg carb, and built a longer arm so the movement isn't so sensitive. =20An
air leak in the bowl, or mixture control will disable the system, since it
depends on back suction from the venturi. My initial tests did make the EGT
raise about 1000=BA, so it must be doing something. However, it did NOT make the
RPM increase. I'll do some high altitude tests while en route to Brodhead
tomorrow, and give reports to Corky.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:21:00 AM Central Standard Time,
jphillip@alarismed.com writes:
If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my =E2=80=9Cride giving=E2=80=9D
to 18 to
20 year old females, as long as they aren=E2=80=99t wearing too many heavy clothes.
Jack,
Those girls are at the skydive airports. Be sure to stop for fuel at one of
them. Trust me on this one !! :)
Chuck G.
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
Steve,
I have a mig welder at work, 1.5 miles South of Hicks, if it will work. We
can normalize the weld with a torch. Drop by anytime!
Max
Do not archive
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
In a message dated 7/20/2005 10:39:35 AM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes:
Chuck-- in ground tests of your mixture control, you should be able to lean
out the mixture until the engine
begins to falter/drop RPM.
Mike,
In my ground run, the engine did drop in RPM, and it caused an instant
increase in EGT. Acording to the pamphlet from Oscar, there should be an Increase
in RPM at above 5000', if not, move it back to full rich. I'll bring this
pamphlet to Brodhead with me, for your inspection.
Chuck G.
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
In a message dated 7/20/2005 11:44:25 AM Central Standard Time,
sbobka@charter.net writes:
Actually, for Weight and Balance purposes, it is necessary that they fly in
the rear cockpit.
works for me !!
Message 19
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1249648210:sNHT47572084"
Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
I just did the load test on Greg and Dale's Piet today. I also finished up the
40 hours of testing. At 90 degree F. temp and a density altitude of exactly
3473' and a prop that mashes the air at merely 2100 rpm as that is all she will
do with four strong cylinders, I was good for only 200 fpm as well. Looking
at the chart in the manual, this equates to 50 horsepower. The dewpoint was
71 degrees F., altimeter setting at 29.88 in. hg., and the field elevation at
920 feet. Fuel consumption is by the book at 4 gph exactly. There is no provision
for leaning this NAS3 although I wish there was.
I carried the ship itself at 616 pounds, 70 pounds in the front baggage compartment,
165 pounds of lead strapped into the front seat, 66 pounds of gas, 7 pounds
in the glove locker, 7 pounds of oil, and my 230 pound fat ass. This totalled
1161 pounds. We have a MAUW of 1300 listed on the paperwork since one would
be dumb to self limit.
Cheers,
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
In a message dated 7/20/2005 2:20:45 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net
writes:
Hey Chuck
I am just curious about your performance at 95 degrees on climb. It has been
quite hot here also and I've not wanted to go out in it.
Dick,
It's quite an anemic climb rate, when temps are that high. The density altitude
at the time was something like 3300', but I only had about 3/4 fuel load,
and was not at gross weight. It took 5 minutes between 1000' increments, which
puts it at about 200 fpm. When I pulled power at 5000', it took 10 minutes
to climb to 6000'.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 20
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1159043950:sNHT29331332"
Subject: | Re: Mixture & Altitude |
The C-85 in the Cessna 140 will rise about 50-75 rpm when I lean her out. The
motor sounds happier too.
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude
In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:02:16 AM Central Standard Time, sbobka@charter.net
writes:
Are all the parts inside the carb? Two brass discs, gasket underneath the
bottom disk, screw, spring, and shaft?
Chris
Yep, they sure are. I got a very informative document from Oscar, about the
Stromberg carb, and built a longer arm so the movement isn't so sensitive. An
air leak in the bowl, or mixture control will disable the system, since it depends
on back suction from the venturi. My initial tests did make the EGT raise
about 1000=BA, so it must be doing something. However, it did NOT make the
RPM increase. I'll do some high altitude tests while en route to Brodhead tomorrow,
and give reports to Corky.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 21
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1340454816:sNHT22535508"
Subject: | Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
Max,
Any news on the fuel gauge?
Chris
Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: Andimaxd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
Steve,
I have a mig welder at work, 1.5 miles South of Hicks, if it will work. We can
normalize the weld with a torch. Drop by anytime!
Max
Do not archive
Message 22
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Subject: | Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
I've now heard from several sources that the hub nut should be torqued to
200 to 225 FOOT/lbs. Everything is back on the plane now, except my wimpy
torque wrench only goes to 150 ft/lbs. I weigh 170lbs, I guess if I hung at
the end of a 14" rod, that should do the trick. Seems to be a popular way
to take care of it.
http://www.luscombesilvaire.info/pop_topics/propellertorquestandards.htm
Max, I'm going to go to a prop shop on the field tomorrow to have them do
the final torquing. I might take you up on that welder sometime though.
My solution was to go buy a cheap 1/2" socket, I was going to drill a hole
through the business end, then insert a rod that could also be inserted
through the hub nut. Should work well, but I'm not sure if I would be able
to drill a 7/16" or larger hole through a socket. The easy solution would
be to just weld a 1/2" or so nut to a bar that will fit in the hub. If you
think you'll need one in the future Max, maybe we should get together and
make a couple of them. I'm probably going to swap props again in a couple
of months. Maybe the prop shop has a smarter tool than that, I'll see
tomorrow.
Thanks for the help everybody! I have a 6hr cross country flight to make
this weekend! Need to get it done by then. Once again, couldn't have done
it without help from a lot of nice people.
Steve Ruse
N6383J - KFTW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil"
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat
torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and
had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove.
Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think
we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a
official tool for doing this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse
> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb
> prop was
> damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry
> A&P).
> The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub
> entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the
> hub
> when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub,
> what
> is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine
> crank?
>
> Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to
> make
> an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is
> the
> hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to
> make
> an adapter.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - KFTW
>
>
--
--
Message 23
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d="scan'208"; a="1336930085:sNHT45638300"
Subject: | Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka@charter.net>
Steve, looking at the current Continental Overhaul manual (form X-30010
dated April 1973) for the C-75 and C-85, which uses the same exact part
number crankshaft and hub nut as the A series motors, it says, on page 38,
section 6-4 PROPELLER INSTALLATION, paragraph j., "Install the propeller,
hub and nut assembly on the crankshaft, and screw the nut in. Torque to
200-225 foot pounds."
Stuff that was put out by the Luscombe Association about 20 years ago says
that a light film of oil should go on the tapered part of the shaft. I
would use 3 in 1 oil.
There is also a worthy note on page 113 of the same Continental manual after
the section listing the "tightening torques". It says, "Torque loads are
listed for use with oil on the threads, except for studs. Stud driving
torques apply when the threads are coated with Alcoa thread lube if hole is
blind, or with National Oil Seal compound if hole is through to a cavity
subject to oil." Interestingly, the prop hub nut is NOT on the list of
"tightening torques" so whether the oil rule applies, it is up to you to
decide... The comment on studs is talking of putting the studs into the
case, not the nut on the stud itself.
Welcome the world of "FAA Approved" manuals. If it did not need FAA
approval, it would have been corrected by now...
There may have been a service bulletin put out on this topic at one time.
You have to pay Continental for most SBs (a few a free). I will ask Cy
Galley at the Oshkosh Emergency repair building when I see him Monday. He
will know for sure.
Chris
Braumeister, Baumeister, und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse"
<steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> I've now heard from several sources that the hub nut should be torqued to
> 200 to 225 FOOT/lbs. Everything is back on the plane now, except my wimpy
> torque wrench only goes to 150 ft/lbs. I weigh 170lbs, I guess if I hung
at
> the end of a 14" rod, that should do the trick. Seems to be a popular way
> to take care of it.
>
> http://www.luscombesilvaire.info/pop_topics/propellertorquestandards.htm
>
> Max, I'm going to go to a prop shop on the field tomorrow to have them do
> the final torquing. I might take you up on that welder sometime though.
>
> My solution was to go buy a cheap 1/2" socket, I was going to drill a hole
> through the business end, then insert a rod that could also be inserted
> through the hub nut. Should work well, but I'm not sure if I would be
able
> to drill a 7/16" or larger hole through a socket. The easy solution would
> be to just weld a 1/2" or so nut to a bar that will fit in the hub. If
you
> think you'll need one in the future Max, maybe we should get together and
> make a couple of them. I'm probably going to swap props again in a couple
> of months. Maybe the prop shop has a smarter tool than that, I'll see
> tomorrow.
>
> Thanks for the help everybody! I have a 6hr cross country flight to make
> this weekend! Need to get it done by then. Once again, couldn't have
done
> it without help from a lot of nice people.
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - KFTW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick
> Navratil
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:47 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil"
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat
> torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and
> had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove.
> Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think
> we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a
> official tool for doing this.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:39 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse
> > <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> >
> > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb
> > prop was
> > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry
> > A&P).
> > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub
> > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the
> > hub
> > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub,
> > what
> > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine
> > crank?
> >
> > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way
to
> > make
> > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is
> > the
> > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder
to
> > make
> > an adapter.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > N6383J - KFTW
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
Message 24
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d="scan'208"; a="520874084:sNHT24797572"
Subject: | more on Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka@charter.net>
Steve,
Make sure you inspect the hub for cracks as the link below says to do. A
crack will go from the aft side of the key way to the nearest bolt hole it
can find...
Also, if you can, tell me how many holes are in the the end of the crank for
you to put the safety screw into. It is either 4 or 5. Make sure you look
at the end of the crank and not the hub nut...
Chris
Braumeister, Baumeister, und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse"
<steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> I've now heard from several sources that the hub nut should be torqued to
> 200 to 225 FOOT/lbs. Everything is back on the plane now, except my wimpy
> torque wrench only goes to 150 ft/lbs. I weigh 170lbs, I guess if I hung
at
> the end of a 14" rod, that should do the trick. Seems to be a popular way
> to take care of it.
>
> http://www.luscombesilvaire.info/pop_topics/propellertorquestandards.htm
>
> Max, I'm going to go to a prop shop on the field tomorrow to have them do
> the final torquing. I might take you up on that welder sometime though.
>
> My solution was to go buy a cheap 1/2" socket, I was going to drill a hole
> through the business end, then insert a rod that could also be inserted
> through the hub nut. Should work well, but I'm not sure if I would be
able
> to drill a 7/16" or larger hole through a socket. The easy solution would
> be to just weld a 1/2" or so nut to a bar that will fit in the hub. If
you
> think you'll need one in the future Max, maybe we should get together and
> make a couple of them. I'm probably going to swap props again in a couple
> of months. Maybe the prop shop has a smarter tool than that, I'll see
> tomorrow.
>
> Thanks for the help everybody! I have a 6hr cross country flight to make
> this weekend! Need to get it done by then. Once again, couldn't have
done
> it without help from a lot of nice people.
>
> Steve Ruse
> N6383J - KFTW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick
> Navratil
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:47 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil"
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat
> torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and
> had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove.
> Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think
> we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a
> official tool for doing this.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:39 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse
> > <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> >
> > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb
> > prop was
> > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry
> > A&P).
> > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub
> > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the
> > hub
> > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub,
> > what
> > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine
> > crank?
> >
> > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way
to
> > make
> > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is
> > the
> > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder
to
> > make
> > an adapter.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > N6383J - KFTW
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
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