---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/20/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Re: Rudder issue appears solved (Phillips, Jack) 2. 04:49 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Phillips, Jack) 3. 06:00 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka) 4. 08:37 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Michael D Cuy) 5. 09:01 AM - What kind of pulleys to use? (Egan, John) 6. 09:20 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka) 8. 10:32 AM - Re: What kind of pulleys to use? (Mark) 9. 11:43 AM - Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Steve Ruse) 10. 01:59 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (DJ Vegh) 11. 06:51 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Dick Navratil) 12. 07:36 PM - Info on Continental engines (Michael Turrell) 13. 07:43 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@AOL.COM) 14. 07:44 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@AOL.COM) 15. 07:48 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@AOL.COM) 16. 07:51 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Andimaxd@aol.com) 17. 07:53 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@aol.com) 18. 07:54 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 09:11 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka) 20. 09:12 PM - Re: Mixture & Altitude (Christian Bobka) 21. 09:12 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Christian Bobka) 22. 09:59 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Steve Ruse) 23. 10:29 PM - Re: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Christian Bobka) 24. 10:35 PM - more on Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder issue appears solved From: "Phillips, Jack" Good that you found it! I was wondering about all the right rudder you were having to hold. I have to hold a tiny bit to keep mine straight, but certainly not enough to cause a cramp. If I fly it feet off, the nose will slowly wander off to the left. Not enough to warrant "uglying it up" with a trim tab on the rudder. Finished my 25 hours last night. No squawks on the airplane. I leave for Brodhead via Cleveland tomorrow morning. I'm looking forward to meeting a bunch of the folks I've corresponded with over the years I've been building this thing. Jack Phillips "Icarus Plummet", NX899JP Raleigh, NC Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder issue appears solved We have only a few more hours to fly off on the Pietenpol. Then off to Brodhead on Thursday. I have been wrestling with the right-rudder-needing- to-be-held problem now for 36 or so flight hours. The answer was still elusive until today. My leg was cramping from always having to hold right rudder. Anyway, I fly today from Stanton down to Faribault and notice that Cliff Hatz was down below so now knowing I could get a start when it was time to leave, I elected to land and chat with him. While there, I decided I would grab the tiedown kit, folding chair, and pillow from the Cessna 140 as I would need the stuff at Brodhead. I wedged the pillow down to the left of the stick assembly in the front cockpit and then folded the left rudder pedal aft and put the chair down on the pillow fore and aft with one end at the firewall and the other end just forward of full extension on the left rudder input for the aft cockpit's rudder bar. I took off and there was no need to hold right rudder. Like magic, the need to hold it disappeared. I then flew over to Stanton and started to unload. And then I found them. Dale had put springs between the front cockpit's rudder pedals and the firewall. They were incredibly big too. No wonder! As it turns out, he sized them to match the size of spring normally found between the rudder and the tailwheel arms! Yikes! We disconnected the cables between the rudder bar and the front rudder pedals and there must have been a 5 pound pull on the cable due to the spring. Could you imagine if one rudder cable broke or otherwise became disconnected? You would have had a hard over rudder with no way for it to aerodynamically streamline itself. Yikes! I told him "no springs at all". I should have looked sooner. I am embarrassed! Chris ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude From: "Phillips, Jack" Dick, I can tell you that at 95 degrees mine doesn't thrill me with the climb. I fly out of a 2,000' strip with tall trees at the end. Flew it last night with a half tank of fuel and me alone. By the end of the runway I cleared the trees by about 25'. I get about 200 fpm climb out of it (density altitude was about 2400'). Haven't tried taking a heavy load yet at those temperatures. If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my "ride giving" to 18 to 20 year old females, as long as they aren't wearing too many heavy clothes. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Hey Chuck I am just curious about your performance at 95 degrees on climb. It has been quite hot here also and I've not wanted to go out in it. I tried it at about 89 last year with full fuel and 80 lb in the front seat and I didn't climb all that well. I was also a bit concerned about the heat bubble on our paved runway. I'll be leaving Fri am. See ya'll mid aft. Dick N. NX2RN ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude I did my first flight with the new mixture control, and CHT & EGT, this evening. I kept track of all the paramaters, but I don't have it with me now. I climbed full power to 5000 feet, the pulled power back to 1900 rpm, and climbed on up to 6400 feet, and tried the mixture control at each 1000 foot incriment, and it didn't give any increase in rpm. Kind of disapointing for the first flight test. This was just the first flight test, with many more to come. The sun wouldn't wait for me, so I had to return to earth... I've never had my ol' Pietenpol up any higher than 3500 - 4000. The earth sure looks different up there, and it wasn't too cold, about 95=BA on the ground, and about 70=BA. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:47 AM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1156017852:sNHT85794270" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Are all the parts inside the carb? Two brass discs, gasket underneath the bottom disk, screw, spring, and shaft? Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude I did my first flight with the new mixture control, and CHT & EGT, this evening. I kept track of all the paramaters, but I don't have it with me now. I climbed full power to 5000 feet, the pulled power back to 1900 rpm, and climbed on up to 6400 feet, and tried the mixture control at each 1000 foot incriment, and it didn't give any increase in rpm. Kind of disapointing for the first flight test. This was just the first flight test, with many more to come. The sun wouldn't wait for me, so I had to return to earth... I've never had my ol' Pietenpol up any higher than 3500 - 4000. The earth sure looks different up there, and it wasn't too cold, about 95=BA on the ground, and about 70=BA. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:56 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Chuck-- in ground tests of your mixture control, you should be able to lean out the mixture until the engine begins to falter/drop RPM. Mine did this about 1/4" to 3/8" travel on the arm sweep radius. I could easily have shut the engine down with the control (like most others do with mixture control). If you do have all the parts in there as Chris says, even though you are not showing an rpm increase, you are leaning the mixture some with the movement aft before the rpms show any indication. In wiring my mixture just a bit lean of full rich I stopped the carbon dust on my plugs and exhaust stack ID's. See you in the land of cheese and cows, Mike C. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: What kind of pulleys to use? From: "Egan, John" FILETIME=[DCEFDE80:01C58D43] --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" My question concerns control pulleys. Is there a preferred pulley type to use for the controls? Material type? I plan to drive to Broadhead and Oshkosh and ask more questions and take photos. When you place two pulleys next to each other as on the torque tube assembly, do you place a washer between them and on the outside of the pulleys where they would contact the mounting flange? Are good used pulleys o.k. I have some. I'm still new at this and do not currently fly. Relocated from the east coast to Wisconsin last fall and am building. Also, Do people use head sets in a Piet? I have 5 David Clark head sets, and need to know if I should try to sell all five in the EAA Fly Market, or keep two of them. I plan to hear Corvair noise from my Piet if that makes a difference. John This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ============================================================================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Jack, Can I take pictures of those 19-20 year olds getting in the front cockpit? :-) Jack Textor Des Moines Sweating already! No not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Dick, I can tell you that at 95 degrees mine doesn't thrill me with the climb. I fly out of a 2,000' strip with tall trees at the end. Flew it last night with a half tank of fuel and me alone. By the end of the runway I cleared the trees by about 25'. I get about 200 fpm climb out of it (density altitude was about 2400'). Haven't tried taking a heavy load yet at those temperatures. If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my "ride giving" to 18 to 20 year old females, as long as they aren't wearing too many heavy clothes. Jack Phillips ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:02 AM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1031021779:sNHT130298548" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Actually, for Weight and Balance purposes, it is necessary that they fly in the rear cockpit. chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Textor, Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:17 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Jack, Can I take pictures of those 19-20 year olds getting in the front cockpit? J Jack Textor Des Moines Sweating already! No not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:46 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude Dick, I can tell you that at 95 degrees mine doesn't thrill me with the climb. I fly out of a 2,000' strip with tall trees at the end. Flew it last night with a half tank of fuel and me alone. By the end of the runway I cleared the trees by about 25'. I get about 200 fpm climb out of it (density altitude was about 2400'). Haven't tried taking a heavy load yet at those temperatures. If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my "ride giving" to 18 to 20 year old females, as long as they aren't wearing too many heavy clothes. Jack Phillips ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:34 AM PST US From: Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What kind of pulleys to use? SpamAssassin (score=-2.569, required 3, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.03, BAYES_00 -2.60) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark > >Also, Do people use head sets in a Piet? I have 5 David Clark head >sets, and need to know if I should try to sell all five in the EAA Fly >Market, or keep two of them. I plan to hear Corvair noise from my Piet >if that makes a difference. > >John > > John If you value your hearing you should use a headset in anything. Noise levels are enough over time to do a great deal of damage. David Clarks are excellent in noise cancellation and will protect you from that problem. There are kits out there that can make them an active noise cancelling and some offer greater comfort. The trick to making a David Clark comfortable is to pick you out a set and never let anyone else wear them. The band for me actually seemed to conform to my head and was comfortable for a very long time. If someone else happened to wear them for one reason or another, it would bother me for a flight or two. What's confortable is so personal its up to you. Check out the new Lightspeeds. For me they were very comfortable. If I were you though got from selling the two headsets to invest in a good intercom to go in the Piet so you can enjoy some conversation to who ever happens to get a ride. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:30 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb prop was damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry A&P). The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the hub when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, what is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine crank? Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to make an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is the hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to make an adapter. Thanks! Steve Ruse N6383J - KFTW ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:35 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I'm not sure what tool is used on an A-65 hub but I do know that for make shift torquing (sp?) of bolts that require odd tools you can't go wrong with a steel pipe of known length slipped over the tool and a pull type spring scale. drill a hole in the pipe 24" (or so) from the end, slip the scale hook into it and pull on the other end of the scale to desired reading. remember to do the math to get the reading you need. It gets you pretty darned close. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb prop was > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry A&P). > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the hub > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, what > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine crank? > > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to make > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is the > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to make > an adapter. > > Thanks! > > Steve Ruse > N6383J - KFTW > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:12 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove. Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a official tool for doing this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb > prop was > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry > A&P). > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the > hub > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, > what > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine > crank? > > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to > make > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is > the > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to > make > an adapter. > > Thanks! > > Steve Ruse > N6383J - KFTW > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:15 PM PST US From: "Michael Turrell" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Info on Continental engines Thought I would share a web site on Continental engine questions and trouble shooting.My understanding is you can query this gentleman with any problems you might be encountering.If I'm wrong it is still an interesting read for those with A65, 75's etc.http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm Hope it is useful. Regards ,Mike ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:25 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 2:20:45 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net writes: Hey Chuck I am just curious about your performance at 95 degrees on climb. It has been quite hot here also and I've not wanted to go out in it. Dick, It's quite an anemic climb rate, when temps are that high. The density altitude at the time was something like 3300', but I only had about 3/4 fuel load, and was not at gross weight. It took 5 minutes between 1000' increments, which puts it at about 200 fpm. When I pulled power at 5000', it took 10 minutes to climb to 6000'. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:24 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:02:16 AM Central Standard Time, sbobka@charter.net writes: Are all the parts inside the carb? Two brass discs, gasket underneath the bottom disk, screw, spring, and shaft? Chris Yep, they sure are. I got a very informative document from Oscar, about the Stromberg carb, and built a longer arm so the movement isn't so sensitive. =20An air leak in the bowl, or mixture control will disable the system, since it depends on back suction from the venturi. My initial tests did make the EGT raise about 1000=BA, so it must be doing something. However, it did NOT make the RPM increase. I'll do some high altitude tests while en route to Brodhead tomorrow, and give reports to Corky. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:52 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:21:00 AM Central Standard Time, jphillip@alarismed.com writes: If it is that hot at Brodhead I will be limiting my =E2=80=9Cride giving=E2=80=9D to 18 to 20 year old females, as long as they aren=E2=80=99t wearing too many heavy clothes. Jack, Those girls are at the skydive airports. Be sure to stop for fuel at one of them. Trust me on this one !! :) Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:07 PM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque Steve, I have a mig welder at work, 1.5 miles South of Hicks, if it will work. We can normalize the weld with a torch. Drop by anytime! Max Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:28 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 10:39:35 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: Chuck-- in ground tests of your mixture control, you should be able to lean out the mixture until the engine begins to falter/drop RPM. Mike, In my ground run, the engine did drop in RPM, and it caused an instant increase in EGT. Acording to the pamphlet from Oscar, there should be an Increase in RPM at above 5000', if not, move it back to full rich. I'll bring this pamphlet to Brodhead with me, for your inspection. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:32 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 11:44:25 AM Central Standard Time, sbobka@charter.net writes: Actually, for Weight and Balance purposes, it is necessary that they fly in the rear cockpit. works for me !! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:37 PM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1249648210:sNHT47572084" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude I just did the load test on Greg and Dale's Piet today. I also finished up the 40 hours of testing. At 90 degree F. temp and a density altitude of exactly 3473' and a prop that mashes the air at merely 2100 rpm as that is all she will do with four strong cylinders, I was good for only 200 fpm as well. Looking at the chart in the manual, this equates to 50 horsepower. The dewpoint was 71 degrees F., altimeter setting at 29.88 in. hg., and the field elevation at 920 feet. Fuel consumption is by the book at 4 gph exactly. There is no provision for leaning this NAS3 although I wish there was. I carried the ship itself at 616 pounds, 70 pounds in the front baggage compartment, 165 pounds of lead strapped into the front seat, 66 pounds of gas, 7 pounds in the glove locker, 7 pounds of oil, and my 230 pound fat ass. This totalled 1161 pounds. We have a MAUW of 1300 listed on the paperwork since one would be dumb to self limit. Cheers, Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 2:20:45 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net writes: Hey Chuck I am just curious about your performance at 95 degrees on climb. It has been quite hot here also and I've not wanted to go out in it. Dick, It's quite an anemic climb rate, when temps are that high. The density altitude at the time was something like 3300', but I only had about 3/4 fuel load, and was not at gross weight. It took 5 minutes between 1000' increments, which puts it at about 200 fpm. When I pulled power at 5000', it took 10 minutes to climb to 6000'. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:05 PM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1159043950:sNHT29331332" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude The C-85 in the Cessna 140 will rise about 50-75 rpm when I lean her out. The motor sounds happier too. Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mixture & Altitude In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:02:16 AM Central Standard Time, sbobka@charter.net writes: Are all the parts inside the carb? Two brass discs, gasket underneath the bottom disk, screw, spring, and shaft? Chris Yep, they sure are. I got a very informative document from Oscar, about the Stromberg carb, and built a longer arm so the movement isn't so sensitive. An air leak in the bowl, or mixture control will disable the system, since it depends on back suction from the venturi. My initial tests did make the EGT raise about 1000=BA, so it must be doing something. However, it did NOT make the RPM increase. I'll do some high altitude tests while en route to Brodhead tomorrow, and give reports to Corky. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:50 PM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1340454816:sNHT22535508" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque Max, Any news on the fuel gauge? Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque Steve, I have a mig welder at work, 1.5 miles South of Hicks, if it will work. We can normalize the weld with a torch. Drop by anytime! Max Do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:35 PM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" I've now heard from several sources that the hub nut should be torqued to 200 to 225 FOOT/lbs. Everything is back on the plane now, except my wimpy torque wrench only goes to 150 ft/lbs. I weigh 170lbs, I guess if I hung at the end of a 14" rod, that should do the trick. Seems to be a popular way to take care of it. http://www.luscombesilvaire.info/pop_topics/propellertorquestandards.htm Max, I'm going to go to a prop shop on the field tomorrow to have them do the final torquing. I might take you up on that welder sometime though. My solution was to go buy a cheap 1/2" socket, I was going to drill a hole through the business end, then insert a rod that could also be inserted through the hub nut. Should work well, but I'm not sure if I would be able to drill a 7/16" or larger hole through a socket. The easy solution would be to just weld a 1/2" or so nut to a bar that will fit in the hub. If you think you'll need one in the future Max, maybe we should get together and make a couple of them. I'm probably going to swap props again in a couple of months. Maybe the prop shop has a smarter tool than that, I'll see tomorrow. Thanks for the help everybody! I have a 6hr cross country flight to make this weekend! Need to get it done by then. Once again, couldn't have done it without help from a lot of nice people. Steve Ruse N6383J - KFTW -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove. Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a official tool for doing this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb > prop was > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry > A&P). > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the > hub > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, > what > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine > crank? > > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to > make > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is > the > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to > make > an adapter. > > Thanks! > > Steve Ruse > N6383J - KFTW > > -- -- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:01 PM PST US d="scan'208"; a="1336930085:sNHT45638300" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Steve, looking at the current Continental Overhaul manual (form X-30010 dated April 1973) for the C-75 and C-85, which uses the same exact part number crankshaft and hub nut as the A series motors, it says, on page 38, section 6-4 PROPELLER INSTALLATION, paragraph j., "Install the propeller, hub and nut assembly on the crankshaft, and screw the nut in. Torque to 200-225 foot pounds." Stuff that was put out by the Luscombe Association about 20 years ago says that a light film of oil should go on the tapered part of the shaft. I would use 3 in 1 oil. There is also a worthy note on page 113 of the same Continental manual after the section listing the "tightening torques". It says, "Torque loads are listed for use with oil on the threads, except for studs. Stud driving torques apply when the threads are coated with Alcoa thread lube if hole is blind, or with National Oil Seal compound if hole is through to a cavity subject to oil." Interestingly, the prop hub nut is NOT on the list of "tightening torques" so whether the oil rule applies, it is up to you to decide... The comment on studs is talking of putting the studs into the case, not the nut on the stud itself. Welcome the world of "FAA Approved" manuals. If it did not need FAA approval, it would have been corrected by now... There may have been a service bulletin put out on this topic at one time. You have to pay Continental for most SBs (a few a free). I will ask Cy Galley at the Oshkosh Emergency repair building when I see him Monday. He will know for sure. Chris Braumeister, Baumeister, und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" > > I've now heard from several sources that the hub nut should be torqued to > 200 to 225 FOOT/lbs. Everything is back on the plane now, except my wimpy > torque wrench only goes to 150 ft/lbs. I weigh 170lbs, I guess if I hung at > the end of a 14" rod, that should do the trick. Seems to be a popular way > to take care of it. > > http://www.luscombesilvaire.info/pop_topics/propellertorquestandards.htm > > Max, I'm going to go to a prop shop on the field tomorrow to have them do > the final torquing. I might take you up on that welder sometime though. > > My solution was to go buy a cheap 1/2" socket, I was going to drill a hole > through the business end, then insert a rod that could also be inserted > through the hub nut. Should work well, but I'm not sure if I would be able > to drill a 7/16" or larger hole through a socket. The easy solution would > be to just weld a 1/2" or so nut to a bar that will fit in the hub. If you > think you'll need one in the future Max, maybe we should get together and > make a couple of them. I'm probably going to swap props again in a couple > of months. Maybe the prop shop has a smarter tool than that, I'll see > tomorrow. > > Thanks for the help everybody! I have a 6hr cross country flight to make > this weekend! Need to get it done by then. Once again, couldn't have done > it without help from a lot of nice people. > > Steve Ruse > N6383J - KFTW > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick > Navratil > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:47 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" > > > I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat > torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and > had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove. > Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think > we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a > official tool for doing this. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Ruse" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:39 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > > > > > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb > > prop was > > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry > > A&P). > > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub > > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the > > hub > > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, > > what > > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine > > crank? > > > > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to > > make > > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is > > the > > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to > > make > > an adapter. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Steve Ruse > > N6383J - KFTW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:48 PM PST US d="scan'208"; a="520874084:sNHT24797572" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: more on Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Steve, Make sure you inspect the hub for cracks as the link below says to do. A crack will go from the aft side of the key way to the nearest bolt hole it can find... Also, if you can, tell me how many holes are in the the end of the crank for you to put the safety screw into. It is either 4 or 5. Make sure you look at the end of the crank and not the hub nut... Chris Braumeister, Baumeister, und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" > > I've now heard from several sources that the hub nut should be torqued to > 200 to 225 FOOT/lbs. Everything is back on the plane now, except my wimpy > torque wrench only goes to 150 ft/lbs. I weigh 170lbs, I guess if I hung at > the end of a 14" rod, that should do the trick. Seems to be a popular way > to take care of it. > > http://www.luscombesilvaire.info/pop_topics/propellertorquestandards.htm > > Max, I'm going to go to a prop shop on the field tomorrow to have them do > the final torquing. I might take you up on that welder sometime though. > > My solution was to go buy a cheap 1/2" socket, I was going to drill a hole > through the business end, then insert a rod that could also be inserted > through the hub nut. Should work well, but I'm not sure if I would be able > to drill a 7/16" or larger hole through a socket. The easy solution would > be to just weld a 1/2" or so nut to a bar that will fit in the hub. If you > think you'll need one in the future Max, maybe we should get together and > make a couple of them. I'm probably going to swap props again in a couple > of months. Maybe the prop shop has a smarter tool than that, I'll see > tomorrow. > > Thanks for the help everybody! I have a 6hr cross country flight to make > this weekend! Need to get it done by then. Once again, couldn't have done > it without help from a lot of nice people. > > Steve Ruse > N6383J - KFTW > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick > Navratil > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:47 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" > > > I just spent a bit of time with the A-65 manual and couldn't find thatat > torque spec. When I did mine we put a heavy tire iron thru the holes and > had a 6' piece of 1 1/2" pipe sleeve it. It was hard to remove. > Putting it back on we again cranked down pretty hard on it. I don't think > we ever came up with a figure for torque then either. I'm not aware of a > official tool for doing this. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Ruse" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:39 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65/75 prop hub torque > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse > > > > > > This evening I'm going to install a cruise prop on my plane (the climb > > prop was > > damaged when the spinner departed the plane in flight, thanks to a sorry > > A&P). > > The cruise prop needed a different size bolt, so I had to remove the hub > > entirely. The only thing I don't know is how much I need to torque the > > hub > > when I put it back on. This is a standard A-65 style tapered shaft hub, > > what > > is the torque spec on the retaining piece that threads onto the engine > > crank? > > > > Also, since there is no nut or bolt on this piece, is there an easy way to > > make > > an adapter that will allow me to use my torque wrench on the hub? How is > > the > > hub typically torqued onto the engine? I don't have access to a welder to > > make > > an adapter. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Steve Ruse > > N6383J - KFTW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > >