---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/31/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:21 AM - Re: Green Piet @ Oshkosh (Christian Bobka) 2. 06:22 AM - Re: Spar Size analysis? () 3. 06:28 AM - Vacuum Bagging presentation at Brodhead.... (Jim Markle) 4. 06:47 AM - Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers (Rcaprd@aol.com) 5. 07:25 AM - Re: 3/4 inch spars (Jake Crause) 6. 08:23 AM - Re: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers (Rick Holland) 7. 08:48 AM - Re: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers (Christian Bobka) 8. 09:07 AM - Re: Was I bad? (Rick Holland) 9. 10:35 AM - Re: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers (Dick Navratil) 10. 02:35 PM - Re: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers (Christian Bobka) 11. 05:24 PM - Long time reader, first time writer (wdmelvin@netzero.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:18 AM PST US d="scan'208"; a="1291432398:sNHT21993944" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Green Piet @ Oshkosh --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" You might mean Jack Phillips? Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Green Piet @ Oshkosh > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rbutch@inreach.com > > I missed the name on the card, but does anybody know who had the green > Piet at Oshkosh early in the week? It was beautiful! > > Ron Butcher > Turlock, Ca. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:33 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Size analysis? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: For 1" routed spars: Moment of Inertia = 7.50 Allowable bending stress = 5132 psi Volume of wood in the spars = 1.28 ft/3 For 3/4" solid spars: Moment of Inertia = 6.70 Allowable bending stress = 6200psi Volume of wood in the spars = 1.46 ft/3 The allowable bending stress for the routed spars is reduced because a form factor has to applied (per ANC-18, page 36, 1944 edition) You'll have trouble breaking either spar option. It's early and the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet so the professionals on the list might want verify these numbers. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hubbard" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Size analysis? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene > Hubbard > > Jake, > > Page 64 of the manual (note 10) says that > Pietenpol himself used spars laminated out > of 3/4" square material for his later > aircraft. > > The engineering that would go into it would > be to calculate the moment of inertia for > the two cross-sections. Units come out as > inches to the fourth power. The higher the > moment of inertia, the better. > > I started covering my Piet this week--tail > and one aileron have Polyfiber on them now, > and wings are off. > > Gene Hubbard > San Diego > > Jake Crause wrote: > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake >>Crause" >> >>Greetings, >> >>I've been able to find some references in >>the archives about the 3/4" >>spar being OK. My question is how was that >>conclusion reached? Can't >>seem to find that part in the archives. I >>do not doubt that it is OK, >>but I was hoping to have some facts to back >>up my choice for the smaller >>spar. Was there an analysis done? >> >>Does anyone have a weight comparison >>between the 1" routed spar and a >>solid 3/4". >>Jake Crause >>www.homebuiltairplanes.com >> >>P.S. Got my Table DONE - Working on the >>Rib Jig!! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Forum - > Navigator to browse > Subscriptions page, > Browse, Chat, FAQ, > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:48 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging presentation at Brodhead.... Here's the info on the suppliers for the stuff I used for the vacuum bagging presentation at Brodhead: http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-vbes.htm Aerospace Composite Products. This is where I bought my stuff, you'll recognize the parts. http://www.cstsales.com/index.htm The Composites Store. Another good source. Brodhead.....what a wonderful place. JM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:25 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers Cook (K50) to Earhart (K59) 175 sm 2.3 hrs 8 gal 3.47 gal/hr 5500 msl Earhart (K59) to Centerville (TVK) 143 sm 1.9 hrs 6.4 gal 3.36 gal/hr 5500 msl Centerville (TVK) to Antique Field (Pvt) 30 sm .7 hrs 2000 msl Antique Field (Pvt) to Maquoketa (OQN) 120 sm 1.9 hrs 10 gal 3.8 gal/hr 5500 msl Maquoketa (OQN) to Brodhead (C37) 80 sm 1.2 hrs 5500 msl Brodhead (C37) to Brodhead (C37) Local flight - did Smokin' Figure 8's Brodhead (C37) to Brodhead (C37) Local flight Brodhead (C37) to Brodhead (C37) Out & Back 20 sm Attempt flight to Oshkosh, but the headwinds won out !! I had almost full power in, with an indicated speed of 73 mph, pointing the nose west, trying to track north, and a ground speed of 17 mph !! Brodhead (C37) to Maquoketa (OQN) 80 sm 1.3 hrs 5.4 gal 4.1 gal/hr 4500 msl On this leg, I didn't climb as high, but I still leaned it out, with a higher power setting of 2100 rpm, which I believe is why the fuel burn was higher. Maquoketa (OQN) to Centerville (TVK) 145 sm 2.5 hrs 9.13 gal 3.65 gal/hr 4500 msl Centerville (TVK) to Earhart (K59) 143 sm 2.2 hrs 7.8 gal 3.5 gal/hr 4500 msl Earhart (K59) to Cook (K50) 175 sm 2.3 hrs 8 gal 3.4 gal/hr 4500 msl All told, I burned 65.7 gal of fuel (Av Gas & Mo Gas), logged 18 hrs flight time, covered 1171 sm, which gave me an average fuel burn of 3.63 gal/hr, and 17.8 miles per gallon. I am suprised that my plane doesn't get very good miles per gallon, but I triple checked the numbers, and that's a little better than I got last year. I'm working on a long post about the details of the trip. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:32 AM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3/4 inch spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" ----------------------- The "3 Piece Wing Supplement for AirCamper and Sky Scout"--drawn by Vi Kapler in 1975 and revised by Dick Gleason in 1982 is part of those plans. It shows only 3/4 inch spars for the 3 piece wing. ------------------------ Oh, yeah. There is that! Duh, I feel a bit goofy. I was zeroing in on the original plans and forgot about the 3 piece set showing 3/4 in both the center section AND the main wing panels. Says right on the 3 piece wing drawing: "Designed by BHP". Good enough for me. Jake ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:16 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers How many frequent flyer miles did you get credit for on that Chuck? Rick All told, I burned 65.7 gal of fuel (Av Gas & Mo Gas), logged 18 hrs flight > time, covered 1171 sm, which gave me an average fuel burn of 3.63 gal/hr, > and 17.8 miles per gallon. I am suprised that my plane doesn't get very > good miles per gallon, but I triple checked the numbers, and that's a little > better than I got last year. > I'm working on a long post about the details of the trip. > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:12 AM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1333972232:sNHT1003260140" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers And you are complaining about getting 3.63 gal/hour? Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers Cook (K50) to Earhart (K59) 175 sm 2.3 hrs 8 gal 3.47 gal/hr 5500 msl Earhart (K59) to Centerville (TVK) 143 sm 1.9 hrs 6.4 gal 3.36 gal/hr 5500 msl Centerville (TVK) to Antique Field (Pvt) 30 sm .7 hrs 2000 msl Antique Field (Pvt) to Maquoketa (OQN) 120 sm 1.9 hrs 10 gal 3.8 gal/hr 5500 msl Maquoketa (OQN) to Brodhead (C37) 80 sm 1.2 hrs 5500 msl Brodhead (C37) to Brodhead (C37) Local flight - did Smokin' Figure 8's Brodhead (C37) to Brodhead (C37) Local flight Brodhead (C37) to Brodhead (C37) Out & Back 20 sm Attempt flight to Oshkosh, but the headwinds won out !! I had almost full power in, with an indicated speed of 73 mph, pointing the nose west, trying to track north, and a ground speed of 17 mph !! Brodhead (C37) to Maquoketa (OQN) 80 sm 1.3 hrs 5.4 gal 4.1 gal/hr 4500 msl On this leg, I didn't climb as high, but I still leaned it out, with a higher power setting of 2100 rpm, which I believe is why the fuel burn was higher. Maquoketa (OQN) to Centerville (TVK) 145 sm 2.5 hrs 9.13 gal 3.65 gal/hr 4500 msl Centerville (TVK) to Earhart (K59) 143 sm 2.2 hrs 7.8 gal 3.5 gal/hr 4500 msl Earhart (K59) to Cook (K50) 175 sm 2.3 hrs 8 gal 3.4 gal/hr 4500 msl All told, I burned 65.7 gal of fuel (Av Gas & Mo Gas), logged 18 hrs flight time, covered 1171 sm, which gave me an average fuel burn of 3.63 gal/hr, and 17.8 miles per gallon. I am suprised that my plane doesn't get very good miles per gallon, but I triple checked the numbers, and that's a little better than I got last year. I'm working on a long post about the details of the trip. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:38 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was I bad? Quiet reflection and grinding and welding in my case Dick, and thinking about how great it was having a beer with you, Mike and the gang and talking about airplane building. Rick On 7/29/05, Dick Navratil wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" < > horzpool@goldengate.net> > > After Broadhead everybody may be going thru a period of quiet relection or > rapid gluing and sanding. > Dick N. > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen!" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:18 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Was I bad? > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stephen!" > > > > > > > > > > Was I a bad boy and cut off from the list? > > > > > > -- > > IBA# 11465 > > http://imagesdesavions.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:05 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers Chris What are you burning? I have been at about 4.1 gph. I checked the engine manual, it should be more like 3.7 gph. I was getting ready to do some trouble shooting. My flying has been at less than 2500' at 2100 rpm. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers And you are complaining about getting 3.63 gal/hour? Chris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:21 PM PST US d="scan'208,217"; a="1365031885:sNHT22270998" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers I have always found that flight planning at 4.0 was pretty much on the money. I get 4.0 on the C-85 in the Cessna 140 when I lean at altitude. chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers Chris What are you burning? I have been at about 4.1 gph. I checked the engine manual, it should be more like 3.7 gph. I was getting ready to do some trouble shooting. My flying has been at less than 2500' at 2100 rpm. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adventure '05 Crunching the Numbers And you are complaining about getting 3.63 gal/hour? Chris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:05 PM PST US From: "wdmelvin@netzero.net" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Long time reader, first time writer --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "wdmelvin@netzero.net" Hello everyone, I need help. I would like to start building a Piet but am having trouble deciding on an engine (suprise). Model A has big time classic look appeal not so much perf and forward vis (correct me if I'm wrong). Corvair has more power better forward vis not so much classic appeal (solely my opinion). If anyone has good numbers on both I would appreciate seeing them as far as weight cost range speed etc. Does the Corvair version use the extended fuse? Do you still run an alternator with the Corvair. Money is definitely an issue but would like a good running toy with max classic appeal. I'm not trying to stir up a debate just looking for info so you can e-mail me direct to keep from plugging up the list if you'd like. Thanks. Bill