Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:01 AM - A/N Hardware (TBYH@aol.com)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: Piet at Stinson Field (Phillips, Jack)
3. 04:26 AM - Re: Broadhead (Phillips, Jack)
4. 04:46 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (Phillips, Jack)
5. 05:06 AM - Re: wood landing gear (Phillips, Jack)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: Leading edge strip material? (Egan, John)
7. 05:49 AM - Re: covering taughtness (Steve Eldredge)
8. 06:24 AM - Landing gear design (Rick Holland)
9. 06:30 AM - Re: Landing gear design (Phillips, Jack)
10. 07:02 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (John and Phyllis Smoyer)
11. 07:08 AM - Re: Landing gear design (Rick Holland)
12. 07:22 AM - Re: A/N Hardware (John and Phyllis Smoyer)
13. 08:07 AM - Re: covering taughtness (Edwin Johnson)
14. 08:17 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (Phillips, Jack)
15. 08:21 AM - Re: OT - unmanned helicopter camera progress (Eric Williams)
16. 08:34 AM - Re: covering taughtness (owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com)
17. 09:17 AM - Re: wood landing gear (Dick Navratil)
18. 09:20 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (Dick Navratil)
19. 09:23 AM - Re: Leading edge strip material? (Michael D Cuy)
20. 09:25 AM - group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Michael D Cuy)
21. 09:38 AM - Re: wood landing gear (tmbrant1@netzero.com)
22. 10:53 AM - Tail fin orientation (Oscar Zuniga)
23. 11:47 AM - More Rib fun (Jake Crause)
24. 01:10 PM - Re: More Rib fun (Jake Crause)
25. 01:17 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (barnstmr@aol.com)
26. 01:34 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Michael D Cuy)
27. 03:02 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Isablcorky@aol.com)
28. 03:23 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (John Hofmann)
29. 03:47 PM - Re: More Rib fun (Jake Crause)
30. 04:01 PM - Re: covering taughtness (Steve Eldredge)
31. 05:29 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Ed G.)
32. 06:38 PM - Re: Broadhead (Javier Cruz)
33. 06:52 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Dick Navratil)
34. 07:54 PM - What's a Mini Jini, and why would you stretch a Piet wing? (Mike Whaley)
35. 08:13 PM - Re: More Rib fun (tmbrant1@netzero.com)
36. 08:17 PM - Re: wood landing gear (tmbrant1@netzero.com)
Message 1
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Up early this morning to watch the shuttle land...Just wondering if anyone
has ever cataloged the various A/N nuts, bolts and other hardware used in a
Piet. I'm building a straight-axle, Ford A-powered Piet and am not all that
comfortable yet with going from the old hardware spec'd on the 1933 plans to the
latter-day aircraft grade hardware. I'm currently building the landing gear for
may plane. Also, yesterday afternoon, I set the dual control stick assembly
into place. Will post some pictures of my project one of these days soon.
By the way, I purchased my control stick assembly, rudder bar and the lower
fuselage landing gear and lift strut attach fittings from Ken Perkins. I offer
a totally unsolicited endorsement of Ken's work -- it is gorgeous workmanship
and, in my case, will save me untold hours of trying to learn to weld and to
build these parts correctly, not to mention will save me the worry about flying
with metal parts that I had welded. I know that part of the Piet process is
to learn various skills and to do it yourself, but for me it just makes sense
to let a real pro make parts like these vital components.
Thanks in advance for any help with the A/N hardware!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Message 2
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Subject: | Piet at Stinson Field |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Lowell Frank now has a Lambert radial on his Pietenpol and probably
knows more about the Lambert engine than anyone else in the country.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
Reportedly, the Texas Air Museum at Stinson Field (San Antonio) has
acquired
a 1932 Pietenpol with a Lambert 5-cylinder radial engine. This airplane
was
formerly at another museum, possibly Rio Hondo (TX), and I assume it
will be
in need of restoration. I need to get out there and see what they have!
Anybody know the history of this plane, who built it, anything? Know
who
might be familiar with this engine and could work on it?
Oscar Zuniga
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Hola Javier,
It was a great pleasure to meet you and put a face with a name. I've
seen your name of posts to the list for years, but now I know what you
look like. It was good to meet you and your friends and family.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
Hi Piets
What a great time at Broadhead, see the planes, take movies and pictures
of
Pietenpols , and the main was the pleasure to meet some Piets listers
,what a group, i will expect that the next year we have more time
there..
Just i want to thanks to all for the welcome .
Javier Cruz
Message 4
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Subject: | Tail fin orientation |
I made two sets of holes for my fin - one set aligned staight with the
centerline and another set offset to counteract the engine torque. I
first installed it on the centerline but after the first couple of
flights I changed to the offset holes. Whether you need to do this
depends on your engine installation, and how much right thrust and
downthrust your engine mount provides.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation
We're about ready to install the tail fin on the Air Camper under
construction at the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading, PA. Does anyone
out there know if the fin should be installed at an angle to the
aircraft centerline, or should it be aligned parallel to it?
We're thinking that maybe one doesn't really know until the airplane
flies, and that the fin's mounting brackets should be slotted so
adjustments can be made later. Any comments/suggestions would be much
appreciated.
This is a great site, and we're learning from it every day. Thanks, and
best regards to all.
John Smoyer
Message 5
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Subject: | wood landing gear |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Hi Tom,
I really struggled with this when building mine. The problem is, if you
have the V blocks at the ends of the struts parallel to the aircraft
centerline, you cannot get the struts to fit properly at the fuselage
and at the V blocks - you can get a good fit at one or the other, but
not both. It is geometrically impossible. I cut countless sets of
struts (fortunately in scrap pine before committing to expensive
spruce), trying to get the angles just right to fit well at the fuselage
and at the V blocks.
Finally, I suspended the fuselage from the ceiling and made a jig to
hold the V blocks at just the right height. I then ran a string
representing the outboard leading edge of each strut down to the V
blocks. Since the outboard surfaces of the landing gear struts have to
be in the same plane if they are to fit well at the fuselage, I could
then twist the V block on the jig until the two strings on each side
were in line with each other. At that point I marked the angle of the V
block. When I made scrap struts to fit the V block at that angle,
everything fit perfectly. The angle of the V block is very close to the
angle required to point it at the tailwheel. Whether this is by design
or just coincidence I don't know.
I have some photos of my setup that I can email if you'd like, but they
are too large to put on the list.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tmbrant1@netzero.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
<tmbrant1@netzero.net>
I'm about to build the landing gear and as I study the plans I see that
both sides angle back toward the tailwheel. Several people have told me
that when they build theirs that getting this angle just right causes
difficulty. I just don't understand why you'd have to angle it anyway
because the axle passes straight thru. Con someone enlighten me?
Tom B.
Message 6
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Subject: | Leading edge strip material? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
Thanks to all who helped me, this time on the leading edge. Over the
weekend, I picked up a long length of 2x6 fir. It comes almost clear in
14' lengths. I priced out 5/4" clear pine, sitka, hand railing, and
3/4" clear pine to laminate. I ended up ripping the 2x6 about four
times to rough it out, clamped it to the wing assembly, and used a block
plane. Eight dollars for the lumber, and a little labor and fun. Thank
you all for your good advice. By mixing and matching all advice to my
style and capability, I have found good solutions to help me advance my
project quickly. After the outboard wings are glue up, I'll work on the
(36") center section, and will need to think about fabricating a gas
tank at some point. Thank you all again.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material?
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans"
<wbeevans@verizon.net>
I used a piece of 5/4 clear pine. Or you can look in the regular pine
bin
and pay less for a good hand picked clear piece. I forget how wide the
piece was , but when cut on a bevel it took care of both leading edges.
After bolting in place I used my little hand plane (no pun) to shape the
both leading edges.
There is nothing so satisfying as using a sharp plane to bring a piece
down to a perfect, uniform size.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
>
> May I ask what builders are using for leading edge wing strip
material?
> I need to purchase, fabricate and install a leading edge strip on the
> wings. Maybe use Sitka, clear pine, a milled 2x4? It seems the
> densities of Sitka, Pine, Douglas Fir and Cedar seem relatively close.
> I priced a 14' length of clear pine at a finish dimension of 1" x 3"
at
> about $40 each. The price may come down using shorter pieces, then
> scarfing the joints? Everything I pick up seems so heavy.
>
>
--
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contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is
exempt
from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error,
please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and
destroy any printed copy. Thank you.
>
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This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged,
confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure
under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly
by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy.
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Message 7
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Subject: | covering taughtness |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
Once the weave is rendered immovable with the first coat of primer, or
poly brush it will seem tighter. Before the weave is filled the
individual fibers are not locked in place which give it the drum tight
feel your looking for. Trust the process and make sure your iron is
calibrated.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harvey
Rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule
<harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
I may be wrong but I think it tightens up after your first coat anyway.
> Hey,
>
> I bought my project partly covered, and I'm now ribstiching and
> taping. When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't
> seem as drum tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight
> like a drum as most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty
> sure that's okay.
>
> I'm guessing he just left the covering a bit loose when he covered it,
> so there's just not enough slack to leave it drum tight.
>
> My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the
> first coating, instead of non-taughtening?
>
> any thoughts??
>
> Douwe
Message 8
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Subject: | Landing gear design |
Since we are on the subject of landing gear, on thing I didn't measure on
anyone's Piet at Broadhead was the distance from the bottom longerons to the
ground at the main gear. I did measure most peoples deck angles and found a
range of 10 to 13 degrees. Anyhow with my tail wheel installed to get a deck
angle of 12 degrees the bottom longeron to ground measurement will need to
be around 32".
What's interesting is that the 1933 plans show this distance to be about 25"
but the Flyer and Glider Manual wood gear plans show the axle 17" below the
bottom longeron with a 26" wheel, which after figuring tire diameter comes
out to about the 32" that I figure I need.
Can anyone see where I am calculating wrong here?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
Message 9
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Subject: | Landing gear design |
Rick, are those figures with the plane sitting level, or with the
tailwheel on the ground? I'll try to measure mine the next time I'm at
the airport, but I think your figures are about right. Mine has 21"
wheels and I had to add a step to be able to get in it (couldn't swing
my leg over the cockpit coaming, even though I have long legs) so 32" is
probably about right. I think my deck angle is about 12 to 13 degrees.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design
Since we are on the subject of landing gear, on thing I didn't measure
on anyone's Piet at Broadhead was the distance from the bottom longerons
to the ground at the main gear. I did measure most peoples deck angles
and found a range of 10 to 13 degrees. Anyhow with my tail wheel
installed to get a deck angle of 12 degrees the bottom longeron to
ground measurement will need to be around 32".
What's interesting is that the 1933 plans show this distance to be about
25" but the Flyer and Glider Manual wood gear plans show the axle 17"
below the bottom longeron with a 26" wheel, which after figuring tire
diameter comes out to about the 32" that I figure I need.
Can anyone see where I am calculating wrong here?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Tail fin orientation |
Thanks for the quick response, Jack. How far did you offset the holes? Any guess
at how many degress of offset you used? '
Thanks,
John S
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Landing gear design |
Thanks Jack, I am measuring down with a long straightedge perpendicular to
the top longerons and through the centerline of the axles so this
measurement should be the same with the tail up or down (I think).
On 8/8/05, Phillips, Jack <jphillip@alarismed.com> wrote:
>
> Rick, are those figures with the plane sitting level, or with the
> tailwheel on the ground? I'll try to measure mine the next time I'm at the
> airport, but I think your figures are about right. Mine has 21" wheels and I
> had to add a step to be able to get in it (couldn't swing my leg over the
> cockpit coaming, even though I have long legs) so 32" is probably about
> right. I think my deck angle is about 12 to 13 degrees.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> "Icarus Plummet"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2005 9:25 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design
>
> Since we are on the subject of landing gear, on thing I didn't measure on
> anyone's Piet at Broadhead was the distance from the bottom longerons to the
> ground at the main gear. I did measure most peoples deck angles and found a
> range of 10 to 13 degrees. Anyhow with my tail wheel installed to get a deck
> angle of 12 degrees the bottom longeron to ground measurement will need to
> be around 32".
>
> What's interesting is that the 1933 plans show this distance to be about
> 25" but the Flyer and Glider Manual wood gear plans show the axle 17" below
> the bottom longeron with a 26" wheel, which after figuring tire diameter
> comes out to about the 32" that I figure I need.
>
> Can anyone see where I am calculating wrong here?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: A/N Hardware |
I don't know of a definitive listing, but I can decode the AN nomenclature to some
degree:
The number(s) after the letters "AN" identifies the diameter of the bolt in increments
of 1/16 inch. For example, and AN3 bolt or nut is 3/16" dia. AN 4 bolts
are 1/4" dia, and so on.
The dash number identifies the length of the bolt, but the numbers don't correspond
directly to the length. In fact, AN3-10 bolt is not the same length as an
AN4-10 is not the same length as an AN5-10. Also, AN bolts aren't threaded
along their entire length, so you can run into problems there, also.
I found this site on google, and it looks like it can tell you all you need to
know.
http://taggart.glg.msu.edu/gyro/bolts.htm. It even includes a down-loadable program.
HOpe this helps.
Best Regards,
John Smoyer
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: covering taughtness |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson <elj@shreve.net>
Hello Douwe,
> Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
> When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum
> tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as
> most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's okay.
>
> My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the
> first coating, instead of non-taughtening?
As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read
this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter.
What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this
is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used.
...Edwin
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you
long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj
Message 14
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Subject: | Tail fin orientation |
I think they were offset about =BE" to 1", or about 3 degrees as I recall.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John and Phyllis Smoyer
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation
Thanks for the quick response, Jack. How far did you offset the holes? Any guess
at how many degress of offset you used? '
Thanks,
John S
Message 15
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Subject: | OT - unmanned helicopter camera progress |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805@msn.com>
Wow - really impressive DJ. Am I the only one who thought there must be
plenty of sunbathing beauties there in Phoenix that might help to calibrate
the zoom lens on this thing?
Eric
>From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT - unmanned helicopter camera progress
>Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:00:53 -0700
>
>just thought I'd share a video I shot and edited today using my robotic
>unmanned helicopter/camera rig.
>
>the gyro stabilizer on the camera mount smooths out the motion VERY well.
> this damn helicopter project is keeping me from the GN-1 but hey.... it's
>fun and the GN-1 can wait. I'll finish it one day! ;) Besides this thing
>ought to provide income where the GN-1 likes to burn it up!
>
> http://www.azchoppercam.com/portfolio/video/flight.wmv
>
>DJ Vegh
>www.azchoppercam.com
Message 16
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Subject: | covering taughtness |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
I did hear once where a guy was covering with Dacron and he used the
heater to the point where it actually broke ribs inside the wing.Be
aware.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
Once the weave is rendered immovable with the first coat of primer, or
poly brush it will seem tighter. Before the weave is filled the
individual fibers are not locked in place which give it the drum tight
feel your looking for. Trust the process and make sure your iron is
calibrated.
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harvey
Rule
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule
<harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
I may be wrong but I think it tightens up after your first coat anyway.
> Hey,
>
> I bought my project partly covered, and I'm now ribstiching and
> taping. When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't
> seem as drum tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight
> like a drum as most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty
> sure that's okay.
>
> I'm guessing he just left the covering a bit loose when he covered it,
> so there's just not enough slack to leave it drum tight.
>
> My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the
> first coating, instead of non-taughtening?
>
> any thoughts??
>
> Douwe
Message 17
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|
Subject: | Re: wood landing gear |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Tom
If you need help with setting them up, give me a call. Also, I have a spare
set you can use a guide to setting yours up.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
> <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
>
>
> I'm about to build the landing gear and as I study the plans I see that
> both sides angle back toward the tailwheel. Several people have told me
> that when they build theirs that getting this angle just right causes
> difficulty. I just don't understand why you'd have to angle it anyway
> because the axle passes straight thru. Con someone enlighten me?
>
> Tom B.
>
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Tail fin orientation |
At Broadhead I saw a couple of Piets that had the forward mount bracket spaced
extra wide with a shim on each side so that offset could be easily adjusted.
I don't recall who that was.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Phyllis Smoyer
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation
We're about ready to install the tail fin on the Air Camper under construction
at the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading, PA. Does anyone out there know if
the fin should be installed at an angle to the aircraft centerline, or should
it be aligned parallel to it?
We're thinking that maybe one doesn't really know until the airplane flies, and
that the fin's mounting brackets should be slotted so adjustments can be made
later. Any comments/suggestions would be much appreciated.
This is a great site, and we're learning from it every day. Thanks, and best
regards to all.
John Smoyer
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Subject: | Leading edge strip material? |
John-- just catching up on all my e-mails. Sounds like you got some good
advice.
Mike C.
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Subject: | group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want
to say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that.
L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack
Phillips, John Hofman, and myself.
Mike C.
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Subject: | wood landing gear |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
I'd be interested in seeing the photos.
Tom B.
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Subject: | Tail fin orientation |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
John writes-
>Does anyone out there know if the fin should be installed at an angle
>to the aircraft centerline, or should it be aligned parallel to it?
Funny you should ask. I'll soon be ready to reinstall my vertical
stabilizer and was thinking about offsetting the leading edge to help take
out some of the need to hold right rudder. Corky added a fixed trim tab to
the trailing edge of the rudder and that helps, but I figured I can offset
the leading edge of the VS about an inch to the port side (counterclockwise
rotation if you view it from above, pivoting about the rudder hinge line).
The airplane has an A-65; if you are running a Corvair, I think you'd need
to offset in the other direction.
Comments from anybody who's tried offsetting their VS would be appreciated.
And a few photos on the VS recovering are at the top of
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" <admin@homebuiltairplanes.com>
Pieters,
I've finally got around to lofting the rib onto my rib jig and am pretty
happy with the profile given some of the variations in the dimensions
given in the drawings. I'm plotting the locations of the spars and ran
across a couple of questions.
1. Are the bottoms of the spars supposed to be beveled to match the rib
profile? If so, is the starting dimension supposed to be 4 3/4 then
beveled as needed or must the beveled dimension be no less than 4 3/4 on
its shortest side after beveling?
2. From the horizontal reference line the top of the front spar is at 5
1/8" and so is the top of the rear spar. Taking into account the 1/4
cap strip the bottom of the front spar is at 5/16" above the reference
line and the bottom of the rear spar is at 1/2". This tells me that the
rear spar must be shorter. Is this correct or am I missing something.
Thanks.
Jake Crause
P.S. I am using 3/4" spars and the locations I have them plotted are:
1. Front face of the front spar is 6 7/8" from LE of wing.
2. Front face of rear spar is 28" from rear face of front spar.
Message 24
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" <admin@homebuiltairplanes.com>
Another rib question. Where did you find the locations of the verticals
(only used on end ribs)? Are they just equal distance between the
spars? I noticed they do not appear to be vertical. Do I just get them
about as perpendicular between the two capstrips as possible and base
the diagonals off of that? Maybe I'm over thinking it. Thanks.
Jake Crause
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Subject: | Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to make
my first broadhead fly-in next year.
Terry L. Bowden
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier
Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to say
Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that.
L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack Phillips,
John Hofman, and myself.
Mike C.
Attached Image: Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg
[Image removed]
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Subject: | Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
shoot--sorry Terry. I am embarrassed to say that I asked that gentleman
his name and recognized it from the list.
By the time I got home and downloaded the pics his name escaped me.
Mike C.
do not archive
At 04:16 PM 8/8/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to
>make my first broadhead fly-in next year.
>
>Terry L. Bowden
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:18:08 -0400
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier
>
>Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to
>say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that.
>
>L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack
>Phillips, John Hofman, and myself.
>
>Mike C.
>Attached Image:
><http://m02.webmail.aol.com/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.10938152&folder=New+Mail&partId=2&saveAs=Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg>Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg
>
>[Image removed]
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Subject: | Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
Sure is easy to pick out the Suthun gentlemen in this pic. Orange shirt has
to be a yankee as he is too good looking to be a reb.
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
I am still taken by the good looks and obvious charm of the =B3properly sized=B2
gentleman in the ballcap and sweatshirt standing next to Javier. :)
-john-
Do no archive.
> Sure is easy to pick out the Suthun gentlemen in this pic. Orange shirt has to
> be a yankee as he is too good looking to be a reb.
>
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" <admin@homebuiltairplanes.com>
Well, I did some more digging and came across a discussion on this topic
in Sep 99. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that ran into that problem.
Anyway, the 4 possible fixes that were discussed were:
1. Notch the capstrip a bit to allow the spar to fit. I believe, once
glued, this would be very strong and would not affect rib strength.
Walt Evans did this.
2. Bevel the spar as required to get it to fit. The downside is it
Removes spar material.
3. Go with a slightly undersized spar and still use the wedges. The
downside is slightly weaker spar but still has a flat top unlike #2.
4. Notch the spar where the rib joins. I don't like this idea because
of the stress riser imposed.
I like number 1 personally. Does anyone see a problem with doing this?
One point that was brought up during the Sep 99 discussion was that many
designs don't even have a capstrip over the spar. A small notch, with a
proper glue joint, should be as strong as one without a notch.
Anyway, thanks for listening. Look forward to hearing from you.
Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jake
Crause
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause"
<admin@homebuiltairplanes.com>
Pieters,
I've finally got around to lofting the rib onto my rib jig and am pretty
happy with the profile given some of the variations in the dimensions
given in the drawings. I'm plotting the locations of the spars and ran
across a couple of questions.
1. Are the bottoms of the spars supposed to be beveled to match the rib
profile? If so, is the starting dimension supposed to be 4 3/4 then
beveled as needed or must the beveled dimension be no less than 4 3/4 on
its shortest side after beveling?
2. From the horizontal reference line the top of the front spar is at 5
1/8" and so is the top of the rear spar. Taking into account the 1/4
cap strip the bottom of the front spar is at 5/16" above the reference
line and the bottom of the rear spar is at 1/2". This tells me that the
rear spar must be shorter. Is this correct or am I missing something.
Thanks.
Jake Crause
P.S. I am using 3/4" spars and the locations I have them plotted are:
1. Front face of the front spar is 6 7/8" from LE of wing.
2. Front face of rear spar is 28" from rear face of front spar.
Message 30
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Subject: | covering taughtness |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
Edwin,
Don't worry, I think if you carefully re-read, I am not saying that
anything gets tighter, it just seems tighter when the fiber strands
cannot move relative to each other. Imagine the difference between a
trampoline and a trampoline that has been coated with ice. I'm trying
to describe a difference in flexibility, that might be mistaken as
tightness.
Like I say, follow the process for your specific manufacture and make
sure your iron is calibrated and all will be well with the world.
I only bring this up since I had a similar concern comparing my 375
degree tightened but raw fabric to that of a crop dusters finish painted
surface. I was worried that my fabric was still loose, until I filled
the weave and painted, then viola! Everything was normal, including the
satisfying drum sound when you plink at the new surface.
BTW my most recent covering job is a Stinson with Air-Tech last week.
(Not Poly-Fiber)
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edwin
Johnson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson <elj@shreve.net>
Hello Douwe,
> Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
> When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum
> tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as
> most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's
okay.
>
> My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the
> first coating, instead of non-taughtening?
As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read
this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter.
What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this
is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used.
...Edwin
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you
long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Hard to tell with the hat and glasses but that might be Dick Navatril in the
orange t shirt. I think I remember him ducking in for the picture...???
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Date: Mon,
>08 Aug 2005 16:34:07 -0400
>
>shoot--sorry Terry. I am embarrassed to say that I asked that gentleman
>his name and recognized it from the list.
>By the time I got home and downloaded the pics his name escaped me.
>
>Mike C.
>do not archive
> At 04:16 PM 8/8/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to
>>make my first broadhead fly-in next year.
>>
>>Terry L. Bowden
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:18:08 -0400
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier
>>
>>Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to
>>say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that.
>>
>>L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack
>>Phillips, John Hofman, and myself.
>>
>>Mike C.
>>Attached Image:
>><http://m02.webmail.aol.com/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.10938152&folder=New+Mail&partId=2&saveAs=Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg>Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg
>>
>>[Image removed]
>
Message 32
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
Thanks Jack, it was a pleasure to meet you and all of the group too..
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Hi Ed
No thats not me. I remember talking to him but it's not coming to me
either.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Hard to tell with the hat and glasses but that might be Dick Navatril in
> the orange t shirt. I think I remember him ducking in for the
> picture...???
>
>
>>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Date:
>>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:34:07 -0400
>>
>>shoot--sorry Terry. I am embarrassed to say that I asked that gentleman
>>his name and recognized it from the list.
>>By the time I got home and downloaded the pics his name escaped me.
>>
>>Mike C.
>>do not archive
>> At 04:16 PM 8/8/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to
>>>make my first broadhead fly-in next year.
>>>
>>>Terry L. Bowden
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:18:08 -0400
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier
>>>
>>>Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want
>>>to say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that.
>>>
>>>L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack
>>>Phillips, John Hofman, and myself.
>>>
>>>Mike C.
>>>Attached Image:
>>><http://m02.webmail.aol.com/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.10938152&folder=New+Mail&partId=2&saveAs=Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg>Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg
>>>
>>>[Image removed]
>>
>
>
>
Message 34
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Subject: | What's a Mini Jini, and why would you stretch a Piet wing? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Hi yall
I seem to recall that there's a Piet variant out there known as a "Mini
Jini" with a JN-4 style tail and fake radiator and longer wings. I'm not
sure if this is a one-off or supplemental plans, or what... does anyone know
anything about this? I sat in one at SNF a couple years ago, at least I
think that's what it was. Unfortunately I can't remember the gentlemans's
name who owned it, I think he was from the gulf coast of Florida. I remember
that he said that the wings had been extended... either 4 feet total or 4
ft. per side, I can't remember... what effect on performance does this
change really have?
Just curious...
Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
Message 35
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
I plan to use the beveled spar method, although I don't see anything wrong with
any of the ways you've sugested. Hadn't thought about notching the ribs but
I tend to use the easiest way I can think of which, to me is beveling the spars...
The only draw back to this is slightly increased weight (over a sq. spar
with wedges) but we're talking minimal difference..
My two cents...
Tom B.
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: wood landing gear |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
Dick,
I'll take you up on that... I think I need to research a bit more about location
of mine based on using the corvair engine and long fuselage (isn't yours a
short fuse with Continental??)
Once I figure out location you and I should get together and review your installation.
Are you still at Crystal or have you moved yet?
Tom B.
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