---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/08/05: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:01 AM - A/N Hardware (TBYH@aol.com) 2. 04:23 AM - Re: Piet at Stinson Field (Phillips, Jack) 3. 04:26 AM - Re: Broadhead (Phillips, Jack) 4. 04:46 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (Phillips, Jack) 5. 05:06 AM - Re: wood landing gear (Phillips, Jack) 6. 05:18 AM - Re: Leading edge strip material? (Egan, John) 7. 05:49 AM - Re: covering taughtness (Steve Eldredge) 8. 06:24 AM - Landing gear design (Rick Holland) 9. 06:30 AM - Re: Landing gear design (Phillips, Jack) 10. 07:02 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (John and Phyllis Smoyer) 11. 07:08 AM - Re: Landing gear design (Rick Holland) 12. 07:22 AM - Re: A/N Hardware (John and Phyllis Smoyer) 13. 08:07 AM - Re: covering taughtness (Edwin Johnson) 14. 08:17 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (Phillips, Jack) 15. 08:21 AM - Re: OT - unmanned helicopter camera progress (Eric Williams) 16. 08:34 AM - Re: covering taughtness (owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com) 17. 09:17 AM - Re: wood landing gear (Dick Navratil) 18. 09:20 AM - Re: Tail fin orientation (Dick Navratil) 19. 09:23 AM - Re: Leading edge strip material? (Michael D Cuy) 20. 09:25 AM - group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Michael D Cuy) 21. 09:38 AM - Re: wood landing gear (tmbrant1@netzero.com) 22. 10:53 AM - Tail fin orientation (Oscar Zuniga) 23. 11:47 AM - More Rib fun (Jake Crause) 24. 01:10 PM - Re: More Rib fun (Jake Crause) 25. 01:17 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (barnstmr@aol.com) 26. 01:34 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Michael D Cuy) 27. 03:02 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Isablcorky@aol.com) 28. 03:23 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (John Hofmann) 29. 03:47 PM - Re: More Rib fun (Jake Crause) 30. 04:01 PM - Re: covering taughtness (Steve Eldredge) 31. 05:29 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Ed G.) 32. 06:38 PM - Re: Broadhead (Javier Cruz) 33. 06:52 PM - Re: group photo at Brodhead with Javier (Dick Navratil) 34. 07:54 PM - What's a Mini Jini, and why would you stretch a Piet wing? (Mike Whaley) 35. 08:13 PM - Re: More Rib fun (tmbrant1@netzero.com) 36. 08:17 PM - Re: wood landing gear (tmbrant1@netzero.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:01 AM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: A/N Hardware Up early this morning to watch the shuttle land...Just wondering if anyone has ever cataloged the various A/N nuts, bolts and other hardware used in a Piet. I'm building a straight-axle, Ford A-powered Piet and am not all that comfortable yet with going from the old hardware spec'd on the 1933 plans to the latter-day aircraft grade hardware. I'm currently building the landing gear for may plane. Also, yesterday afternoon, I set the dual control stick assembly into place. Will post some pictures of my project one of these days soon. By the way, I purchased my control stick assembly, rudder bar and the lower fuselage landing gear and lift strut attach fittings from Ken Perkins. I offer a totally unsolicited endorsement of Ken's work -- it is gorgeous workmanship and, in my case, will save me untold hours of trying to learn to weld and to build these parts correctly, not to mention will save me the worry about flying with metal parts that I had welded. I know that part of the Piet process is to learn various skills and to do it yourself, but for me it just makes sense to let a real pro make parts like these vital components. Thanks in advance for any help with the A/N hardware! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet at Stinson Field From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Lowell Frank now has a Lambert radial on his Pietenpol and probably knows more about the Lambert engine than anyone else in the country. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Reportedly, the Texas Air Museum at Stinson Field (San Antonio) has acquired a 1932 Pietenpol with a Lambert 5-cylinder radial engine. This airplane was formerly at another museum, possibly Rio Hondo (TX), and I assume it will be in need of restoration. I need to get out there and see what they have! Anybody know the history of this plane, who built it, anything? Know who might be familiar with this engine and could work on it? Oscar Zuniga ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Hola Javier, It was a great pleasure to meet you and put a face with a name. I've seen your name of posts to the list for years, but now I know what you look like. It was good to meet you and your friends and family. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz Hi Piets What a great time at Broadhead, see the planes, take movies and pictures of Pietenpols , and the main was the pleasure to meet some Piets listers ,what a group, i will expect that the next year we have more time there.. Just i want to thanks to all for the welcome . Javier Cruz ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation From: "Phillips, Jack" I made two sets of holes for my fin - one set aligned staight with the centerline and another set offset to counteract the engine torque. I first installed it on the centerline but after the first couple of flights I changed to the offset holes. Whether you need to do this depends on your engine installation, and how much right thrust and downthrust your engine mount provides. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation We're about ready to install the tail fin on the Air Camper under construction at the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading, PA. Does anyone out there know if the fin should be installed at an angle to the aircraft centerline, or should it be aligned parallel to it? We're thinking that maybe one doesn't really know until the airplane flies, and that the fin's mounting brackets should be slotted so adjustments can be made later. Any comments/suggestions would be much appreciated. This is a great site, and we're learning from it every day. Thanks, and best regards to all. John Smoyer ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Tom, I really struggled with this when building mine. The problem is, if you have the V blocks at the ends of the struts parallel to the aircraft centerline, you cannot get the struts to fit properly at the fuselage and at the V blocks - you can get a good fit at one or the other, but not both. It is geometrically impossible. I cut countless sets of struts (fortunately in scrap pine before committing to expensive spruce), trying to get the angles just right to fit well at the fuselage and at the V blocks. Finally, I suspended the fuselage from the ceiling and made a jig to hold the V blocks at just the right height. I then ran a string representing the outboard leading edge of each strut down to the V blocks. Since the outboard surfaces of the landing gear struts have to be in the same plane if they are to fit well at the fuselage, I could then twist the V block on the jig until the two strings on each side were in line with each other. At that point I marked the angle of the V block. When I made scrap struts to fit the V block at that angle, everything fit perfectly. The angle of the V block is very close to the angle required to point it at the tailwheel. Whether this is by design or just coincidence I don't know. I have some photos of my setup that I can email if you'd like, but they are too large to put on the list. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tmbrant1@netzero.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" I'm about to build the landing gear and as I study the plans I see that both sides angle back toward the tailwheel. Several people have told me that when they build theirs that getting this angle just right causes difficulty. I just don't understand why you'd have to angle it anyway because the axle passes straight thru. Con someone enlighten me? Tom B. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:05 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? From: "Egan, John" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" Thanks to all who helped me, this time on the leading edge. Over the weekend, I picked up a long length of 2x6 fir. It comes almost clear in 14' lengths. I priced out 5/4" clear pine, sitka, hand railing, and 3/4" clear pine to laminate. I ended up ripping the 2x6 about four times to rough it out, clamped it to the wing assembly, and used a block plane. Eight dollars for the lumber, and a little labor and fun. Thank you all for your good advice. By mixing and matching all advice to my style and capability, I have found good solutions to help me advance my project quickly. After the outboard wings are glue up, I'll work on the (36") center section, and will need to think about fabricating a gas tank at some point. Thank you all again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" I used a piece of 5/4 clear pine. Or you can look in the regular pine bin and pay less for a good hand picked clear piece. I forget how wide the piece was , but when cut on a bevel it took care of both leading edges. After bolting in place I used my little hand plane (no pun) to shape the both leading edges. There is nothing so satisfying as using a sharp plane to bring a piece down to a perfect, uniform size. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Egan, John" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" > > May I ask what builders are using for leading edge wing strip material? > I need to purchase, fabricate and install a leading edge strip on the > wings. Maybe use Sitka, clear pine, a milled 2x4? It seems the > densities of Sitka, Pine, Douglas Fir and Cedar seem relatively close. > I priced a 14' length of clear pine at a finish dimension of 1" x 3" at > about $40 each. The price may come down using shorter pieces, then > scarfing the joints? Everything I pick up seems so heavy. > > -- ---- > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. > ======================================================================== ==== == > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ============================================================================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness From: "Steve Eldredge" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" Once the weave is rendered immovable with the first coat of primer, or poly brush it will seem tighter. Before the weave is filled the individual fibers are not locked in place which give it the drum tight feel your looking for. Trust the process and make sure your iron is calibrated. Steve E -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harvey Rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule I may be wrong but I think it tightens up after your first coat anyway. > Hey, > > I bought my project partly covered, and I'm now ribstiching and > taping. When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't > seem as drum tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight > like a drum as most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty > sure that's okay. > > I'm guessing he just left the covering a bit loose when he covered it, > so there's just not enough slack to leave it drum tight. > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? > > any thoughts?? > > Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:51 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design Since we are on the subject of landing gear, on thing I didn't measure on anyone's Piet at Broadhead was the distance from the bottom longerons to the ground at the main gear. I did measure most peoples deck angles and found a range of 10 to 13 degrees. Anyhow with my tail wheel installed to get a deck angle of 12 degrees the bottom longeron to ground measurement will need to be around 32". What's interesting is that the 1933 plans show this distance to be about 25" but the Flyer and Glider Manual wood gear plans show the axle 17" below the bottom longeron with a 26" wheel, which after figuring tire diameter comes out to about the 32" that I figure I need. Can anyone see where I am calculating wrong here? Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design From: "Phillips, Jack" Rick, are those figures with the plane sitting level, or with the tailwheel on the ground? I'll try to measure mine the next time I'm at the airport, but I think your figures are about right. Mine has 21" wheels and I had to add a step to be able to get in it (couldn't swing my leg over the cockpit coaming, even though I have long legs) so 32" is probably about right. I think my deck angle is about 12 to 13 degrees. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design Since we are on the subject of landing gear, on thing I didn't measure on anyone's Piet at Broadhead was the distance from the bottom longerons to the ground at the main gear. I did measure most peoples deck angles and found a range of 10 to 13 degrees. Anyhow with my tail wheel installed to get a deck angle of 12 degrees the bottom longeron to ground measurement will need to be around 32". What's interesting is that the 1933 plans show this distance to be about 25" but the Flyer and Glider Manual wood gear plans show the axle 17" below the bottom longeron with a 26" wheel, which after figuring tire diameter comes out to about the 32" that I figure I need. Can anyone see where I am calculating wrong here? Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:06 AM PST US From: "John and Phyllis Smoyer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation Thanks for the quick response, Jack. How far did you offset the holes? Any guess at how many degress of offset you used? ' Thanks, John S ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:19 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design Thanks Jack, I am measuring down with a long straightedge perpendicular to the top longerons and through the centerline of the axles so this measurement should be the same with the tail up or down (I think). On 8/8/05, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > Rick, are those figures with the plane sitting level, or with the > tailwheel on the ground? I'll try to measure mine the next time I'm at the > airport, but I think your figures are about right. Mine has 21" wheels and I > had to add a step to be able to get in it (couldn't swing my leg over the > cockpit coaming, even though I have long legs) so 32" is probably about > right. I think my deck angle is about 12 to 13 degrees. > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > "Icarus Plummet" > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2005 9:25 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear design > > Since we are on the subject of landing gear, on thing I didn't measure on > anyone's Piet at Broadhead was the distance from the bottom longerons to the > ground at the main gear. I did measure most peoples deck angles and found a > range of 10 to 13 degrees. Anyhow with my tail wheel installed to get a deck > angle of 12 degrees the bottom longeron to ground measurement will need to > be around 32". > > What's interesting is that the 1933 plans show this distance to be about > 25" but the Flyer and Glider Manual wood gear plans show the axle 17" below > the bottom longeron with a 26" wheel, which after figuring tire diameter > comes out to about the 32" that I figure I need. > > Can anyone see where I am calculating wrong here? > > Thanks > > -- > Rick Holland > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:38 AM PST US From: "John and Phyllis Smoyer" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A/N Hardware I don't know of a definitive listing, but I can decode the AN nomenclature to some degree: The number(s) after the letters "AN" identifies the diameter of the bolt in increments of 1/16 inch. For example, and AN3 bolt or nut is 3/16" dia. AN 4 bolts are 1/4" dia, and so on. The dash number identifies the length of the bolt, but the numbers don't correspond directly to the length. In fact, AN3-10 bolt is not the same length as an AN4-10 is not the same length as an AN5-10. Also, AN bolts aren't threaded along their entire length, so you can run into problems there, also. I found this site on google, and it looks like it can tell you all you need to know. http://taggart.glg.msu.edu/gyro/bolts.htm. It even includes a down-loadable program. HOpe this helps. Best Regards, John Smoyer ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:26 AM PST US From: Edwin Johnson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson Hello Douwe, > Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum > tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as > most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's okay. > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter. What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used. ...Edwin "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation From: "Phillips, Jack" I think they were offset about =BE" to 1", or about 3 degrees as I recall. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John and Phyllis Smoyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation Thanks for the quick response, Jack. How far did you offset the holes? Any guess at how many degress of offset you used? ' Thanks, John S ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:38 AM PST US From: "Eric Williams" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT - unmanned helicopter camera progress --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Eric Williams" Wow - really impressive DJ. Am I the only one who thought there must be plenty of sunbathing beauties there in Phoenix that might help to calibrate the zoom lens on this thing? Eric >From: "DJ Vegh" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT - unmanned helicopter camera progress >Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:00:53 -0700 > >just thought I'd share a video I shot and edited today using my robotic >unmanned helicopter/camera rig. > >the gyro stabilizer on the camera mount smooths out the motion VERY well. > this damn helicopter project is keeping me from the GN-1 but hey.... it's >fun and the GN-1 can wait. I'll finish it one day! ;) Besides this thing >ought to provide income where the GN-1 likes to burn it up! > > http://www.azchoppercam.com/portfolio/video/flight.wmv > >DJ Vegh >www.azchoppercam.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:23 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca I did hear once where a guy was covering with Dacron and he used the heater to the point where it actually broke ribs inside the wing.Be aware. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" Once the weave is rendered immovable with the first coat of primer, or poly brush it will seem tighter. Before the weave is filled the individual fibers are not locked in place which give it the drum tight feel your looking for. Trust the process and make sure your iron is calibrated. Steve E -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harvey Rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule I may be wrong but I think it tightens up after your first coat anyway. > Hey, > > I bought my project partly covered, and I'm now ribstiching and > taping. When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't > seem as drum tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight > like a drum as most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty > sure that's okay. > > I'm guessing he just left the covering a bit loose when he covered it, > so there's just not enough slack to leave it drum tight. > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? > > any thoughts?? > > Douwe ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:32 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Tom If you need help with setting them up, give me a call. Also, I have a spare set you can use a guide to setting yours up. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" > > > > I'm about to build the landing gear and as I study the plans I see that > both sides angle back toward the tailwheel. Several people have told me > that when they build theirs that getting this angle just right causes > difficulty. I just don't understand why you'd have to angle it anyway > because the axle passes straight thru. Con someone enlighten me? > > Tom B. > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:34 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation At Broadhead I saw a couple of Piets that had the forward mount bracket spaced extra wide with a shim on each side so that offset could be easily adjusted. I don't recall who that was. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: John and Phyllis Smoyer To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 4:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation We're about ready to install the tail fin on the Air Camper under construction at the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading, PA. Does anyone out there know if the fin should be installed at an angle to the aircraft centerline, or should it be aligned parallel to it? We're thinking that maybe one doesn't really know until the airplane flies, and that the fin's mounting brackets should be slotted so adjustments can be made later. Any comments/suggestions would be much appreciated. This is a great site, and we're learning from it every day. Thanks, and best regards to all. John Smoyer ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:37 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? John-- just catching up on all my e-mails. Sounds like you got some good advice. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:20 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that. L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack Phillips, John Hofman, and myself. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:23 AM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" I'd be interested in seeing the photos. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:02 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" John writes- >Does anyone out there know if the fin should be installed at an angle >to the aircraft centerline, or should it be aligned parallel to it? Funny you should ask. I'll soon be ready to reinstall my vertical stabilizer and was thinking about offsetting the leading edge to help take out some of the need to hold right rudder. Corky added a fixed trim tab to the trailing edge of the rudder and that helps, but I figured I can offset the leading edge of the VS about an inch to the port side (counterclockwise rotation if you view it from above, pivoting about the rudder hinge line). The airplane has an A-65; if you are running a Corvair, I think you'd need to offset in the other direction. Comments from anybody who's tried offsetting their VS would be appreciated. And a few photos on the VS recovering are at the top of http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:47 AM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" Pieters, I've finally got around to lofting the rib onto my rib jig and am pretty happy with the profile given some of the variations in the dimensions given in the drawings. I'm plotting the locations of the spars and ran across a couple of questions. 1. Are the bottoms of the spars supposed to be beveled to match the rib profile? If so, is the starting dimension supposed to be 4 3/4 then beveled as needed or must the beveled dimension be no less than 4 3/4 on its shortest side after beveling? 2. From the horizontal reference line the top of the front spar is at 5 1/8" and so is the top of the rear spar. Taking into account the 1/4 cap strip the bottom of the front spar is at 5/16" above the reference line and the bottom of the rear spar is at 1/2". This tells me that the rear spar must be shorter. Is this correct or am I missing something. Thanks. Jake Crause P.S. I am using 3/4" spars and the locations I have them plotted are: 1. Front face of the front spar is 6 7/8" from LE of wing. 2. Front face of rear spar is 28" from rear face of front spar. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:06 PM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" Another rib question. Where did you find the locations of the verticals (only used on end ribs)? Are they just equal distance between the spars? I noticed they do not appear to be vertical. Do I just get them about as perpendicular between the two capstrips as possible and base the diagonals off of that? Maybe I'm over thinking it. Thanks. Jake Crause ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:02 PM PST US From: barnstmr@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to make my first broadhead fly-in next year. Terry L. Bowden -----Original Message----- From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that. L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack Phillips, John Hofman, and myself. Mike C. Attached Image: Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg [Image removed] ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:38 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier shoot--sorry Terry. I am embarrassed to say that I asked that gentleman his name and recognized it from the list. By the time I got home and downloaded the pics his name escaped me. Mike C. do not archive At 04:16 PM 8/8/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to >make my first broadhead fly-in next year. > >Terry L. Bowden > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael D Cuy >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:18:08 -0400 >Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier > >Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to >say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that. > >L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack >Phillips, John Hofman, and myself. > >Mike C. >Attached Image: >Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg > >[Image removed] ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:00 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Sure is easy to pick out the Suthun gentlemen in this pic. Orange shirt has to be a yankee as he is too good looking to be a reb. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier From: John Hofmann I am still taken by the good looks and obvious charm of the =B3properly sized=B2 gentleman in the ballcap and sweatshirt standing next to Javier. :) -john- Do no archive. > Sure is easy to pick out the Suthun gentlemen in this pic. Orange shirt has to > be a yankee as he is too good looking to be a reb. > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:00 PM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" Well, I did some more digging and came across a discussion on this topic in Sep 99. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that ran into that problem. Anyway, the 4 possible fixes that were discussed were: 1. Notch the capstrip a bit to allow the spar to fit. I believe, once glued, this would be very strong and would not affect rib strength. Walt Evans did this. 2. Bevel the spar as required to get it to fit. The downside is it Removes spar material. 3. Go with a slightly undersized spar and still use the wedges. The downside is slightly weaker spar but still has a flat top unlike #2. 4. Notch the spar where the rib joins. I don't like this idea because of the stress riser imposed. I like number 1 personally. Does anyone see a problem with doing this? One point that was brought up during the Sep 99 discussion was that many designs don't even have a capstrip over the spar. A small notch, with a proper glue joint, should be as strong as one without a notch. Anyway, thanks for listening. Look forward to hearing from you. Jake -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jake Crause Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" Pieters, I've finally got around to lofting the rib onto my rib jig and am pretty happy with the profile given some of the variations in the dimensions given in the drawings. I'm plotting the locations of the spars and ran across a couple of questions. 1. Are the bottoms of the spars supposed to be beveled to match the rib profile? If so, is the starting dimension supposed to be 4 3/4 then beveled as needed or must the beveled dimension be no less than 4 3/4 on its shortest side after beveling? 2. From the horizontal reference line the top of the front spar is at 5 1/8" and so is the top of the rear spar. Taking into account the 1/4 cap strip the bottom of the front spar is at 5/16" above the reference line and the bottom of the rear spar is at 1/2". This tells me that the rear spar must be shorter. Is this correct or am I missing something. Thanks. Jake Crause P.S. I am using 3/4" spars and the locations I have them plotted are: 1. Front face of the front spar is 6 7/8" from LE of wing. 2. Front face of rear spar is 28" from rear face of front spar. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:38 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness From: "Steve Eldredge" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" Edwin, Don't worry, I think if you carefully re-read, I am not saying that anything gets tighter, it just seems tighter when the fiber strands cannot move relative to each other. Imagine the difference between a trampoline and a trampoline that has been coated with ice. I'm trying to describe a difference in flexibility, that might be mistaken as tightness. Like I say, follow the process for your specific manufacture and make sure your iron is calibrated and all will be well with the world. I only bring this up since I had a similar concern comparing my 375 degree tightened but raw fabric to that of a crop dusters finish painted surface. I was worried that my fabric was still loose, until I filled the weave and painted, then viola! Everything was normal, including the satisfying drum sound when you plink at the new surface. BTW my most recent covering job is a Stinson with Air-Tech last week. (Not Poly-Fiber) Stevee -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edwin Johnson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson Hello Douwe, > Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum > tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as > most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's okay. > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter. What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used. ...Edwin "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:45 PM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hard to tell with the hat and glasses but that might be Dick Navatril in the orange t shirt. I think I remember him ducking in for the picture...??? >From: Michael D Cuy >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Date: Mon, >08 Aug 2005 16:34:07 -0400 > >shoot--sorry Terry. I am embarrassed to say that I asked that gentleman >his name and recognized it from the list. >By the time I got home and downloaded the pics his name escaped me. > >Mike C. >do not archive > At 04:16 PM 8/8/2005 -0400, you wrote: >>Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to >>make my first broadhead fly-in next year. >> >>Terry L. Bowden >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Michael D Cuy >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:18:08 -0400 >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier >> >>Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want to >>say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that. >> >>L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack >>Phillips, John Hofman, and myself. >> >>Mike C. >>Attached Image: >>Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg >> >>[Image removed] > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:40 PM PST US From: Javier Cruz Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz Thanks Jack, it was a pleasure to meet you and all of the group too.. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:58 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Hi Ed No thats not me. I remember talking to him but it's not coming to me either. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." > > > Hard to tell with the hat and glasses but that might be Dick Navatril in > the orange t shirt. I think I remember him ducking in for the > picture...??? > > >>From: Michael D Cuy >>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier Date: >>Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:34:07 -0400 >> >>shoot--sorry Terry. I am embarrassed to say that I asked that gentleman >>his name and recognized it from the list. >>By the time I got home and downloaded the pics his name escaped me. >> >>Mike C. >>do not archive >> At 04:16 PM 8/8/2005 -0400, you wrote: >>>Sorry, not me. That guy's a lot better looking than me. I still hope to >>>make my first broadhead fly-in next year. >>> >>>Terry L. Bowden >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Michael D Cuy >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:18:08 -0400 >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: group photo at Brodhead with Javier >>> >>>Guys-- Can anyone put a name with the gent in the orange shirt ? I want >>>to say Terry Bowden but not sure. Sorry about that. >>> >>>L-R are Ed Grentzer, Family or friend of Javier, Jim Markle, Javier, Jack >>>Phillips, John Hofman, and myself. >>> >>>Mike C. >>>Attached Image: >>>Bhead05GroupPhoto.jpg >>> >>>[Image removed] >> > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:07 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Pietenpol-List: What's a Mini Jini, and why would you stretch a Piet wing? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" Hi yall I seem to recall that there's a Piet variant out there known as a "Mini Jini" with a JN-4 style tail and fake radiator and longer wings. I'm not sure if this is a one-off or supplemental plans, or what... does anyone know anything about this? I sat in one at SNF a couple years ago, at least I think that's what it was. Unfortunately I can't remember the gentlemans's name who owned it, I think he was from the gulf coast of Florida. I remember that he said that the wings had been extended... either 4 feet total or 4 ft. per side, I can't remember... what effect on performance does this change really have? Just curious... Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:41 PM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" I plan to use the beveled spar method, although I don't see anything wrong with any of the ways you've sugested. Hadn't thought about notching the ribs but I tend to use the easiest way I can think of which, to me is beveling the spars... The only draw back to this is slightly increased weight (over a sq. spar with wedges) but we're talking minimal difference.. My two cents... Tom B. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:25 PM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Dick, I'll take you up on that... I think I need to research a bit more about location of mine based on using the corvair engine and long fuselage (isn't yours a short fuse with Continental??) Once I figure out location you and I should get together and review your installation. Are you still at Crystal or have you moved yet? Tom B.