---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/09/05: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - Re: covering taughtness (owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com) 2. 05:36 AM - Re: More Rib fun (Jim Markle) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: covering taughtness (Frank Metcalfe) 4. 07:06 AM - Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki (Bill Smith) 5. 07:15 AM - Re: covering taughtness (Gordon Bowen) 6. 08:30 AM - Re: covering taughtness (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 7. 11:08 AM - covering tautness (Oscar Zuniga) 8. 01:09 PM - antique airplane assn (Dick Navratil) 9. 02:05 PM - Re: antique airplane assn (Jdavis2a@wmconnect.com) 10. 02:47 PM - Re: antique airplane assn (Textor, Jack) 11. 02:47 PM - Re: antique airplane assn (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 12. 04:36 PM - Re: antique airplane assn (Isablcorky@aol.com) 13. 05:04 PM - Re: antique airplane assn (John Hofmann) 14. 05:48 PM - Re: Leading edge strip material? (Christian Bobka) 15. 06:35 PM - Re: Piet at Stinson Field (Christian Bobka) 16. 06:42 PM - Re: Broadhead (Christian Bobka) 17. 07:16 PM - Re: covering taughtness (Christian Bobka) 18. 07:51 PM - Re: Tail fin orientation () 19. 07:54 PM - Re: Leading edge strip material? (Christian Bobka) 20. 08:00 PM - Re: A/N Hardware (Christian Bobka) 21. 08:12 PM - Re: More Rib fun (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca One of the best coverings I ever had was Tedlar.Fantastic stuff.You could see through it. It shrunk everytime beautifully.Even when people would come along and try to put their finger through it all you had to do was just hit it with the heat again and all the little puckers would come out.I wish I could get my hands on that stuff again but it's hard to come by now.It was used quite extensively in the Lazair ultralight.It lasted forever even with out covering in the sun.Mylar is not as good.One season and it is like thin glass.Hit it with your finger and it shatters.I had my covering on from 1980 to 1996 when I sold the plane and for all I know it's still on there. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" Edwin, Don't worry, I think if you carefully re-read, I am not saying that anything gets tighter, it just seems tighter when the fiber strands cannot move relative to each other. Imagine the difference between a trampoline and a trampoline that has been coated with ice. I'm trying to describe a difference in flexibility, that might be mistaken as tightness. Like I say, follow the process for your specific manufacture and make sure your iron is calibrated and all will be well with the world. I only bring this up since I had a similar concern comparing my 375 degree tightened but raw fabric to that of a crop dusters finish painted surface. I was worried that my fabric was still loose, until I filled the weave and painted, then viola! Everything was normal, including the satisfying drum sound when you plink at the new surface. BTW my most recent covering job is a Stinson with Air-Tech last week. (Not Poly-Fiber) Stevee -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edwin Johnson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson Hello Douwe, > Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum > tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as > most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's okay. > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter. What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used. ...Edwin "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:34 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle The only draw back to this is slightly increased weight (over a sq. spar with wedges) but we're talking minimal difference.. Well, I used a beveled spar on my center section and that sure wasn't the only drawback, at least for me....I made the spar sizing close enough to the inside of the rib that I could get a nice T88 bond.....took FOREVER to slide the ribs on the spar....I would try it on a short test piece before I tried sliding ribs across a 13-14 foot piece of beveled spar.....I was amazed at what that close tolerance did to the process..... Maybe BHP did the "square spar with wedges" method after trying to slide ribs on a beveled spar....I sure did! And I have to wonder if the benefit of the top capstrip bonding to that beveled spar surface (most likely in tension, so that epoxy joint is virtually useless anyway....) gains for the structure? I'll bet not much.....certainly not worth the darn headache, imho.... JM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:24 AM PST US From: "Frank Metcalfe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness What method are you using. Poly Fiber? -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 2:31 PM To: pietenpolgroup Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness Hey, I bought my project partly covered, and I'm now ribstiching and taping. When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's okay. I'm guessing he just left the covering a bit loose when he covered it, so there's just not enough slack to leave it drum tight. My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the first coating, instead of non-taughtening? any thoughts?? Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:43 AM PST US From: Bill Smith Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Bill Smith Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki If you are interested in alternative engines for experimental aircraft you are invited to join the flyGeo_uncensored group and learn about the fantastic Geo/Suzuki engines used in aircraft. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyGeo_uncensored Both bolt on gearbox and cog belt redrives and all other aircraft conversion parts are available for very reasonable cost. Turbo versions are available also. Gearbox type redrives for around US$1750- The Geo/Suzuki engine uses about half the fuel that the two stroke engines use. The 1.3 litre four cylinder Suzuki engine beats the Rotax 912 in power and weight, again both gearbox and belt type redrives are available. The Geo/Suzuki one litre engine weighs a little more than a Rotax 582, it produces 62 HP normally aspirated but with a better, flatter torque curve. All those advantages plus flying engines with the hours up to prove them and last but not lease, far, far cheaper than a Rotax two or four stroke engine. One person on the group has over 1000 hours on one installation. FlyGeo_uncensored is a very active and helpful group that is also a fun group and is not doubt one of the fastest growing aircraft alternative engine groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyGeo_uncensored The FlyGeo_uncensored Management ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:28 AM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" Harvey, Tedlar was the original house wraping white sheet from DuPont, I've gotta assume still is. Think it's still available in clear or colored sheet/rolls., ck out DuPont Plastic Products and Resins website for distributors of Mylar etc. FYI, its that same product sales group of Tedlar and Mylar at DuPont that has the product Kapton (thin film verson of Kevlar), it's the gold coated film used for the solar arrays in most all space vehicles. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > > One of the best coverings I ever had was Tedlar.Fantastic stuff.You > could see through it. > It shrunk everytime beautifully.Even when people would come along and > try to put their finger through it all you had to do was just hit it > with the heat again and all the little puckers would come out.I wish I > could get my hands on that stuff again but it's hard to come by now.It > was used quite extensively in the Lazair ultralight.It lasted forever > even with out covering in the sun.Mylar is not as good.One season and it > is like thin glass.Hit it with your finger and it shatters.I had my > covering on from 1980 to 1996 when I sold the plane and for all I know > it's still on there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Eldredge > Sent: August 8, 2005 7:01 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" > > Edwin, > > Don't worry, I think if you carefully re-read, I am not saying that > anything gets tighter, it just seems tighter when the fiber strands > cannot move relative to each other. Imagine the difference between a > trampoline and a trampoline that has been coated with ice. I'm trying > to describe a difference in flexibility, that might be mistaken as > tightness. > > Like I say, follow the process for your specific manufacture and make > sure your iron is calibrated and all will be well with the world. > > I only bring this up since I had a similar concern comparing my 375 > degree tightened but raw fabric to that of a crop dusters finish painted > surface. I was worried that my fabric was still loose, until I filled > the weave and painted, then viola! Everything was normal, including the > satisfying drum sound when you plink at the new surface. > > BTW my most recent covering job is a Stinson with Air-Tech last week. > (Not Poly-Fiber) > > Stevee > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edwin > Johnson > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 8:29 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson > > Hello Douwe, > > > Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US > > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > > > When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum > > > tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as > > > most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's > okay. > > > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? > > As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read > this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter. > > What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this > > is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used. > > ...Edwin > _______________________________________________________ > "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned > skyward, for there you have been, there you > long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca Cool ,thanks for the info. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" Harvey, Tedlar was the original house wraping white sheet from DuPont, I've gotta assume still is. Think it's still available in clear or colored sheet/rolls., ck out DuPont Plastic Products and Resins website for distributors of Mylar etc. FYI, its that same product sales group of Tedlar and Mylar at DuPont that has the product Kapton (thin film verson of Kevlar), it's the gold coated film used for the solar arrays in most all space vehicles. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > > One of the best coverings I ever had was Tedlar.Fantastic stuff.You > could see through it. > It shrunk everytime beautifully.Even when people would come along and > try to put their finger through it all you had to do was just hit it > with the heat again and all the little puckers would come out.I wish I > could get my hands on that stuff again but it's hard to come by now.It > was used quite extensively in the Lazair ultralight.It lasted forever > even with out covering in the sun.Mylar is not as good.One season and it > is like thin glass.Hit it with your finger and it shatters.I had my > covering on from 1980 to 1996 when I sold the plane and for all I know > it's still on there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Eldredge > Sent: August 8, 2005 7:01 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" > > Edwin, > > Don't worry, I think if you carefully re-read, I am not saying that > anything gets tighter, it just seems tighter when the fiber strands > cannot move relative to each other. Imagine the difference between a > trampoline and a trampoline that has been coated with ice. I'm trying > to describe a difference in flexibility, that might be mistaken as > tightness. > > Like I say, follow the process for your specific manufacture and make > sure your iron is calibrated and all will be well with the world. > > I only bring this up since I had a similar concern comparing my 375 > degree tightened but raw fabric to that of a crop dusters finish painted > surface. I was worried that my fabric was still loose, until I filled > the weave and painted, then viola! Everything was normal, including the > satisfying drum sound when you plink at the new surface. > > BTW my most recent covering job is a Stinson with Air-Tech last week. > (Not Poly-Fiber) > > Stevee > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edwin > Johnson > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 8:29 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson > > Hello Douwe, > > > Time: 11:14:22 AM PST US > > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > > > When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum > > > tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as > > > most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's > okay. > > > > My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the > > first coating, instead of non-taughtening? > > As a Stits/Poly Fibre user, there are alarm bells going off when I read > this and a reply about the first coat making it tighter. > > What system of covering are you using on this plane? Please tell me this > > is _not_ the Poly Fibre system being used. > > ...Edwin > _______________________________________________________ > "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned > skyward, for there you have been, there you > long to return."-- da Vinci ... www.shreve.net/~elj > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:19 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering tautness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" All this talk about fabric tautness is of great interest for me at the moment. One thing I've seen over and over in the Poly-Fiber manual is that if you overtemp your iron (over 350F, for Poly-Fiber), you will not only NOT increase the tautness, you will permanently lose what it already has. Think "melt", "yield", or "plastic deformation"! I'm assuming that when Steve E. mentioned 375F, he was not referring to Poly-Fiber ("Stits"), but something else. According to the Poly-Fiber manual, you cannot hurt the fabric by leaving the iron sitting on any one spot or by ironing it too much, as long as you are running your iron below that 350F number and it's a calibrated iron. Use 225 to 250F for heat-smoothing and initial tautening, then cranking up to 325 and to a max of 350F as is required for any STC'd fabric job. At least that's what the book says... my only experience so far is in covering one vertical stabilizer, but I didn't want to have to do it twice so I've read the book quite a few times along the way! As Stevee mentioned, the tautened fabric won't have that drum-head feel until you apply the coatings. Then the whole thing becomes a uniform membrane rather than an assembly of individual strands and it takes on that nice drummy feel. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:07 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn After past discussion of AAA, I looked them up today. Looks interesting for fly ins and such. I also noticed they have a sub listing for the International Pietenpol Assn. Does anyone belong to this? Is it worthwhile? I may just try it out. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:45 PM PST US From: Jdavis2a@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn I joined the Int. Piet. Ass. several years ago. My check was cashed but never recieved any newsletters. Unless they have improved I cannot see any benifit belonging to this group JIM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn From: "Textor, Jack" Dick, I do. AAA is a good organization, but very informal. I primarily belong so I can attend the fly-in in Blakesburg August 31 to September 5th, which is member only. There are usually about 300+ beautiful antique aircraft. I have seen 2-10 Piets make it. They have 1 or 2 basic newsletters per year, again very informal. I can't tell you anything about the sub-group of Piets. If I can help any further, let me know. Jack Textor Des Moines ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Subject: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn After past discussion of AAA, I looked them up today. Looks interesting for fly ins and such. I also noticed they have a sub listing for the International Pietenpol Assn. Does anyone belong to this? Is it worthwhile? I may just try it out. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:25 PM PST US ETAuAhUAsq2egt/hfsgxSiHEgk+gy/nBq/ECFQCPwEWt+RaVuF/rvcHcAYwC1OTypw== From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) I was in the IPA many years ago and they had a nice newsletter, but it ended after the IPA was named in a law suit after a fatel pietenpol crash. They had nothing to do withit, but spent themselves broke defendig themselve. I think its still there, but is no longer active. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:41 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn Ditto ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antique airplane assn From: John Hofmann --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann AAA is a pretty good organization and was a real force in the early 1950s through the early 60s before EAA took off. I am currently working on obtaining the rights to the old "American Airman" magazine which was their monthly or bimonthly magazine in the late 50s and early 60s, for publication on CD. These are a wealth of knowledge if you are into old airplanes and just fun to read. The ads make one drool with things like "Joe Mackey's WACO Taperwing, fresh annual, will deliver, $1000 or best offer." I digress. AAA has had problems with capital and a reputation for "not playing nice in the sandbox." They also own all the rights and spare parts to the Ken Royce/LeBlond engine line. That said, when they do put out an issue of any of their publications it is usually a real gem. It is worth the few bucks if you ever want to hit Blakesburg, IA for their Labor Day weekend flyin. For those of you who are Brodhead minded we also have MAAC "Midwest Antique Airplane Club." MAAC has a flyin at Brodhead the weekend after Labor Day and is my favorite. Not only will you have Piets there but lots of really neat shit that you will not see anywhere else. MAAC membership requires a membership in AAA or VAA and was meant to be a common ground. Anyway it is a great event if you need to get to Brodhead again but you must be a member to camp and fly in and stay at the field. Keeps the riff-raff out. All others are welcome to stop by and say hey. Sorry for the stupid message. -john- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:40 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" I think dale and greg used a lot of cedar from the lumber yard. chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Egan, John" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" > > May I ask what builders are using for leading edge wing strip material? > I need to purchase, fabricate and install a leading edge strip on the > wings. Maybe use Sitka, clear pine, a milled 2x4? It seems the > densities of Sitka, Pine, Douglas Fir and Cedar seem relatively close. > I priced a 14' length of clear pine at a finish dimension of 1" x 3" at > about $40 each. The price may come down using shorter pieces, then > scarfing the joints? Everything I pick up seems so heavy. > ---- > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. > ============================================================================ == > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:40 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet at Stinson Field --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" oscar, this airplane has been talked about before on this list. Check the archives. The rio hondo museum also had an FW-190 that they obtained from the bottom of a Norwegian Fjord. chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet at Stinson Field > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > Reportedly, the Texas Air Museum at Stinson Field (San Antonio) has acquired > a 1932 Pietenpol with a Lambert 5-cylinder radial engine. This airplane was > formerly at another museum, possibly Rio Hondo (TX), and I assume it will be > in need of restoration. I need to get out there and see what they have! > Anybody know the history of this plane, who built it, anything? Know who > might be familiar with this engine and could work on it? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:35 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Javier, I looked for you but never found you. I had to leave ahead of the high winds so took off for Minneapolis at 2:30 pm on Saturday. Next time. Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javier Cruz" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz > > Hi Piets > > > What a great time at Broadhead, see the planes, take movies and pictures of > Pietenpols , and the main was the pleasure to meet some Piets listers > ,what a group, i will expect that the next year we have more time there.. > Just i want to thanks to all for the welcome . > Javier Cruz > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:40 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness Even the non tautening will tauten a bit. Just press on. It will be fine. Over time, it will shrink more. I have seen aircraft implode from the tautening over time, like an Aeronca with a scalloped trailing edge to the elevators and rudder. chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering taughtness Hey, I bought my project partly covered, and I'm now ribstiching and taping. When I do the final 350 degree ironing though, it doesn't seem as drum tight as others I've felt. IT's taught, just not tight like a drum as most I've felt. I've calibrated my iron so I'm pretty sure that's okay. I'm guessing he just left the covering a bit loose when he covered it, so there's just not enough slack to leave it drum tight. My question is, what if I used some tightening nitrate dope for the first coating, instead of non-taughtening? any thoughts?? Douwe ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:36 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: I would recommend building the vertical AND horizontal stabilizer with a way to adjust them if needed. Dale and I offset the LE of the fin about 1/2 inch to the left and it could use a bit more. Engine model, thrust angle and prop combination will make each ship fly a bit different. Allow yourself a way to make adjustments. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail fin orientation > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > "Oscar Zuniga" > > John writes- > >>Does anyone out there know if the fin >>should be installed at an angle >>to the aircraft centerline, or should it be >>aligned parallel to it? > > Funny you should ask. I'll soon be ready > to reinstall my vertical stabilizer and was > thinking about offsetting the leading edge > to help take out some of the need to hold > right rudder. Corky added a fixed trim tab > to the trailing edge of the rudder and that > helps, but I figured I can offset the > leading edge of the VS about an inch to the > port side (counterclockwise rotation if you > view it from above, pivoting about the > rudder hinge line). The airplane has an > A-65; if you are running a Corvair, I think > you'd need to offset in the other > direction. > > Comments from anybody who's tried > offsetting their VS would be appreciated. > And a few photos on the VS recovering are > at the top of > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > Forum - > Subscriptions page, > Browse, Chat, FAQ, > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:00 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" where did you get the wood? Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Egan, John" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" > > Thanks to all who helped me, this time on the leading edge. Over the > weekend, I picked up a long length of 2x6 fir. It comes almost clear in > 14' lengths. I priced out 5/4" clear pine, sitka, hand railing, and > 3/4" clear pine to laminate. I ended up ripping the 2x6 about four > times to rough it out, clamped it to the wing assembly, and used a block > plane. Eight dollars for the lumber, and a little labor and fun. Thank > you all for your good advice. By mixing and matching all advice to my > style and capability, I have found good solutions to help me advance my > project quickly. After the outboard wings are glue up, I'll work on the > (36") center section, and will need to think about fabricating a gas > tank at some point. Thank you all again. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt > evans > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:41 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" > > > I used a piece of 5/4 clear pine. Or you can look in the regular pine > bin > and pay less for a good hand picked clear piece. I forget how wide the > piece was , but when cut on a bevel it took care of both leading edges. > After bolting in place I used my little hand plane (no pun) to shape the > both leading edges. > There is nothing so satisfying as using a sharp plane to bring a piece > down to a perfect, uniform size. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Egan, John" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 9:57 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge strip material? > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" > > > > May I ask what builders are using for leading edge wing strip > material? > > I need to purchase, fabricate and install a leading edge strip on the > > wings. Maybe use Sitka, clear pine, a milled 2x4? It seems the > > densities of Sitka, Pine, Douglas Fir and Cedar seem relatively close. > > I priced a 14' length of clear pine at a finish dimension of 1" x 3" > at > > about $40 each. The price may come down using shorter pieces, then > > scarfing the joints? Everything I pick up seems so heavy. > > > > > -- > ---- > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may > contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is > exempt > from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, > please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and > destroy any printed copy. Thank you. > > > ======================================================================== > ==== > == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. > ============================================================================ == > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:37 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A/N Hardware the dash number is the length of the grip in eighths of an inch with a -1 at 1/8" grip length and a -7 at 7/8" grip length. There is no such thing as a -8 or a -18 or a -28 etc as a -8, at 8 eighths, becomes a 1 incher or, better yet a 1 incher and no eighths or a -10. So a -7 is 7/8" and a -10 is a 1" and a -11 is 1-1/8" The grip is the length of the bolt excluding the head thickness. Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: John and Phyllis Smoyer To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A/N Hardware I don't know of a definitive listing, but I can decode the AN nomenclature to some degree: The number(s) after the letters "AN" identifies the diameter of the bolt in increments of 1/16 inch. For example, and AN3 bolt or nut is 3/16" dia. AN 4 bolts are 1/4" dia, and so on. The dash number identifies the length of the bolt, but the numbers don't correspond directly to the length. In fact, AN3-10 bolt is not the same length as an AN4-10 is not the same length as an AN5-10. Also, AN bolts aren't threaded along their entire length, so you can run into problems there, also. I found this site on google, and it looks like it can tell you all you need to know. http://taggart.glg.msu.edu/gyro/bolts.htm. It even includes a down-loadable program. HOpe this helps. Best Regards, John Smoyer ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:41 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" don't notch. It will weaken the capstrip that is carrying a sizeable tensile load. Better to plane down the spar ever so little to have it at an angle that matches the angle betweent he upright and the lower cap. Chris Braumeister und Inspektor der Flitzer und Flitzermotoren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" > > Well, I did some more digging and came across a discussion on this topic > in Sep 99. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that ran into that problem. > Anyway, the 4 possible fixes that were discussed were: > > 1. Notch the capstrip a bit to allow the spar to fit. I believe, once > glued, this would be very strong and would not affect rib strength. > Walt Evans did this. > > 2. Bevel the spar as required to get it to fit. The downside is it > Removes spar material. > > 3. Go with a slightly undersized spar and still use the wedges. The > downside is slightly weaker spar but still has a flat top unlike #2. > > 4. Notch the spar where the rib joins. I don't like this idea because > of the stress riser imposed. > > I like number 1 personally. Does anyone see a problem with doing this? > One point that was brought up during the Sep 99 discussion was that many > designs don't even have a capstrip over the spar. A small notch, with a > proper glue joint, should be as strong as one without a notch. > > Anyway, thanks for listening. Look forward to hearing from you. > > Jake > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jake > Crause > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:47 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Rib fun > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" > > > Pieters, > > I've finally got around to lofting the rib onto my rib jig and am pretty > happy with the profile given some of the variations in the dimensions > given in the drawings. I'm plotting the locations of the spars and ran > across a couple of questions. > > 1. Are the bottoms of the spars supposed to be beveled to match the rib > profile? If so, is the starting dimension supposed to be 4 3/4 then > beveled as needed or must the beveled dimension be no less than 4 3/4 on > its shortest side after beveling? > > 2. From the horizontal reference line the top of the front spar is at 5 > 1/8" and so is the top of the rear spar. Taking into account the 1/4 > cap strip the bottom of the front spar is at 5/16" above the reference > line and the bottom of the rear spar is at 1/2". This tells me that the > rear spar must be shorter. Is this correct or am I missing something. > Thanks. > > Jake Crause > > P.S. I am using 3/4" spars and the locations I have them plotted are: > 1. Front face of the front spar is 6 7/8" from LE of wing. > 2. Front face of rear spar is 28" from rear face of front spar. > >