---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/18/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Propellers (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 2. 04:27 AM - Re: Pietenpol Propellers (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 3. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Propellers (Ed G.) 4. 05:26 AM - Re: 65 hp props (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 5. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Propellers (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 6. 07:31 AM - Re: Wyoming Pietenpol for sale on ebay (Rick Holland) 7. 08:16 AM - Re: Wyoming Pietenpol for sale on ebay (del magsam) 8. 08:22 AM - Re: Wyoming Pietenpol for sale on ebay (Jeff Boatright) 9. 11:30 AM - Piet builders in North Dakota/Minnesota (Kenneth Heide) 10. 02:35 PM - New Piet(?) owner with questions (Jeff Boatright) 11. 02:51 PM - Re: Captain Gantzer Smoke Oil news (Rcaprd@aol.com) 12. 03:09 PM - Re: New Piet(?) owner with questions (Steve Eldredge) 13. 03:19 PM - Re: New Piet(?) owner with questions (Rcaprd@aol.com) 14. 06:45 PM - Re: Pietenpol Propellers (Graham Hansen) 15. 07:48 PM - Cruising "on the step". (Graham Hansen) 16. 08:00 PM - Re: Pietenpol Propellers (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca That's correct;the man I bought it from told me that he didn't think the adaptor set up was all that safe and he felt that it was too heavy with the metal prop.So much so,that he felt there was a danger of tipping over easily.He suggested that I switch to a wooden prop and the AME that is helping me said that a wooden prop would also be smoother.So I'm in the market for a wood prop with either a 72X42 or 72X43 for the 80hp.I have sent out letters to both Sensenich and Tennessee and have received no info back.I believe that they want all the particulars with regards to bolt pattern etc.before they will get back to me.In one situation you have to fill out an order form first.So I have to wait till I can get back to the aircraft to glean all that info.I will be selling that McCauley prop if anyone is interested.And the adaptor as well.With a wood prop on I may be able to reinstall the starter.That ,however may just put me right back where I started with the danger of tipping.With the starter,the metal prop and adaptor on it will tip over unless I tie a rock to the rear,HAHAHA!I'd probably land up in the Redeau River eh guys! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Chris and Ed, Harvey has an adapter on the Franklin which allows him to use the Continental props. It had been machined for that purpose. I saw it in May when I was at Ottawa and, at that time, a McCauley metal prop (for a Continental) was fitted. His friend, an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (as I am), told him a wooden prop would be safer with that adapter. I agree with his engineer. Harvey bought his GN 1 in an advanced state of construction and all this stuff was done by the builder. It would be better if he could find a wooden Sensenich for the Franklin, but I think that is not too likely. A custom-built prop to fit the Franklin would, if he decides to go that route, allow him to ditch the adapter. Graham ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers From: harvey.rule@bell.ca I would opt for the ground adjustable only I found out from Perceptor during my engine exchange on the N3 Pup that direct drive likes to destroy ground adjustibles.It has something to do with the torgue.The blades will work loose and try to leave at the connection point.All good info I'm receiving noe with the present letters coming out.I should be able to get a pretty good handle on what to go after,thanks a million to everyone. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers Harvey, It seems your Franklin engine is rated 80 hp at 2500 rpm. My Continental C 85 is rated 85 hp at 2575 rpm, which makes them reasonably close. I get about 2450 rpm full throttle static and about 2550 rpm in level flight, full throttle. If the airplane were cleaner aerodynamically, I would exceed the rated rpm of 2575 quite easily. The propeller I am currently using is a Colin Walker 72x43 wooden prop. Unfortunately, Colin Walker (of Surrey, British Columbia) has retired. However, there is a rumour that somebody on Vancouver Island is going to take over his business. Colin made excellent propellers for many years and, if this is true, it is good news. I suspect that a 72x44 CW propeller would be just right for my airplane, but the 72x43 I have is OK. (Remember, a "43 inch pitch" number on one propeller may not match the same number on another make!) Getting the optimum fixed pitch wooden propeller for your airplane is a gamble. An aeronautical engineer friend said that usually a lot of different propellers need to be tested to find the best one, but this isn't an option for most of us. He also told me that Pietenpols don't do as well with certified production props as with custom-built ones. Metal props can be re-pitched; wooden props don't lend themselves to this kind of "tweaking". A ground-adjustable prop (eg. Warp Drive) pretty-well eliminates the gamble factor, but some don't like their appearance on a Pietenpol. You could go that route, as others have. If you can borrow a Sensenich 72CK 42 or 72CK44 for trials, you would then get an idea what prop you need for your particular airplane/engine combination. Either of these should be reasonably close to your requirement--at least for testing. Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:56 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Harvey ..They both have on line order forms on their web sites at; www.sensenich.com and www.tn-prop.com..I bought from Tennessee because their price was half the price of a Sensenich uncertified prop without the brass leading edge..I set out to buy a Culver prop and found that Tennessee had bought them out...They have the template for the older Franklin hub..Which ever way you go make sure you stress your bolt pattern to them..The PLZ Franklins use an SAE pattern and when you say Franklin that's what they seem to think you need. I got mine several months ago and the workmanship in it is top notch and it has a nice classic shape to it...Ed Grentzer >From: harvey.rule@bell.ca >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:19:39 -0400 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > >That's correct;the man I bought it from told me that he didn't think the >adaptor set up was all that safe and he felt that it was too heavy with >the metal prop.So much so,that he felt there was a danger of tipping >over easily.He suggested that I switch to a wooden prop and the AME that >is helping me said that a wooden prop would also be smoother.So I'm in >the market for a wood prop with either a 72X42 or 72X43 for the 80hp.I >have sent out letters to both Sensenich and Tennessee and have received >no info back.I believe that they want all the particulars with regards >to bolt pattern etc.before they will get back to me.In one situation you >have to fill out an order form first.So I have to wait till I can get >back to the aircraft to glean all that info.I will be selling that >McCauley prop if anyone is interested.And the adaptor as well.With a >wood prop on I may be able to reinstall the starter.That ,however may >just put me right back where I started with the danger of tipping.With >the starter,the metal prop and adaptor on it will tip over unless I tie >a rock to the rear,HAHAHA!I'd probably land up in the Redeau River eh >guys! > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham >Hansen >Sent: August 17, 2005 9:38 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" > > >Chris and Ed, > >Harvey has an adapter on the Franklin which allows him to use the >Continental props. It had been machined for that purpose. > >I saw it in May when I was at Ottawa and, at that time, a McCauley metal > >prop (for a Continental) was fitted. His friend, an Aircraft Maintenance > >Engineer (as I am), told him a wooden prop would be safer with that >adapter. >I agree with his engineer. > >Harvey bought his GN 1 in an advanced state of construction and all this > >stuff was done by the builder. > >It would be better if he could find a wooden Sensenich for the Franklin, >but >I think that is not too likely. A custom-built prop to fit the Franklin >would, if he decides to go that route, allow him to ditch the adapter. > >Graham > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 65 hp props From: harvey.rule@bell.ca Since the engine is aimed downwards to about 3 degrees then if you are looking at your engine and it appears level then your plane would be down by about 3 degrees.Bringing the fusy up means now the plane is level while the engine is in it's normal configuration of down by 3 degrees and I believe that is why you are not loosing altitude.Your plane is now level.Don't look at the engine to see if your level because it's not.I believe I could be off a degree or two but this is what my plans indicate for motor mount.Correct? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 65 hp props In a message dated 8/16/2005 7:52:20 PM Central Standard Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: Mike and everyone. critical. If the ball is a little off and you step on it, you can just feel a big change in speed. Also, at altitude if I push the stick forward slightly to get it "on step" (don't know if that's a real term , or we made it up) it really cranks. You'd swear it was diving/losing altitude but it's not. It flattens the low pressure arch over the wing and keeps you there. Anyone else do this? Going like a rocket in NJ : ) walt evans NX140DL Yes, I've found this to be true, too. Especially transitioning from climb to cruise. I always leave full power in until cruise speed is reached, then adjust power till no pressure is needed on the stick to maintain altitude. It planes out at about 63 mph indicated, which is actually about 72 or 73 mph. Some day I'll have to try to correct the ASI by adding an O-ring in front of the static port on the pitot / static probe. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca Excellent;thankyou very much.I will order from Tennessee then using the info Provided. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Harvey ..They both have on line order forms on their web sites at; www.sensenich.com and www.tn-prop.com..I bought from Tennessee because their price was half the price of a Sensenich uncertified prop without the brass leading edge..I set out to buy a Culver prop and found that Tennessee had bought them out...They have the template for the older Franklin hub..Which ever way you go make sure you stress your bolt pattern to them..The PLZ Franklins use an SAE pattern and when you say Franklin that's what they seem to think you need. I got mine several months ago and the workmanship in it is top notch and it has a nice classic shape to it...Ed Grentzer >From: harvey.rule@bell.ca >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:19:39 -0400 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > >That's correct;the man I bought it from told me that he didn't think the >adaptor set up was all that safe and he felt that it was too heavy with >the metal prop.So much so,that he felt there was a danger of tipping >over easily.He suggested that I switch to a wooden prop and the AME that >is helping me said that a wooden prop would also be smoother.So I'm in >the market for a wood prop with either a 72X42 or 72X43 for the 80hp.I >have sent out letters to both Sensenich and Tennessee and have received >no info back.I believe that they want all the particulars with regards >to bolt pattern etc.before they will get back to me.In one situation you >have to fill out an order form first.So I have to wait till I can get >back to the aircraft to glean all that info.I will be selling that >McCauley prop if anyone is interested.And the adaptor as well.With a >wood prop on I may be able to reinstall the starter.That ,however may >just put me right back where I started with the danger of tipping.With >the starter,the metal prop and adaptor on it will tip over unless I tie >a rock to the rear,HAHAHA!I'd probably land up in the Redeau River eh >guys! > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham >Hansen >Sent: August 17, 2005 9:38 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" > > >Chris and Ed, > >Harvey has an adapter on the Franklin which allows him to use the >Continental props. It had been machined for that purpose. > >I saw it in May when I was at Ottawa and, at that time, a McCauley metal > >prop (for a Continental) was fitted. His friend, an Aircraft Maintenance > >Engineer (as I am), told him a wooden prop would be safer with that >adapter. >I agree with his engineer. > >Harvey bought his GN 1 in an advanced state of construction and all this > >stuff was done by the builder. > >It would be better if he could find a wooden Sensenich for the Franklin, >but >I think that is not too likely. A custom-built prop to fit the Franklin >would, if he decides to go that route, allow him to ditch the adapter. > >Graham > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:04 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wyoming Pietenpol for sale on ebay Interesting, he is selling it because the Corvair engine doesn't have the power to drag it around at the 5250 ft. elevation. Given that the airport I would fly out of is at 6880 I better look more seriously at WWs turbo conversion. Rick H On 8/17/05, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy < > Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > just stumbled upon this in my semi-monthly search for Pietenpols on > ebay. Mike C. do not archive > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63679QQitemZ4569340531QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW > > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:22 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wyoming Pietenpol for sale on ebay I would guess that his engine is not putting out full power. I would ask some more questions as to how it is set up. Mine still climbs well at 9000 feet, (in a sonex) Del Rick Holland wrote: Interesting, he is selling it because the Corvair engine doesn't have the power to drag it around at the 5250 ft. elevation. Given that the airport I would fly out of is at 6880 I better look more seriously at WWs turbo conversion. Rick H On 8/17/05, Michael D Cuy wrote:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy just stumbled upon this in my semi-monthly search for Pietenpols on ebay. Mike C. do not archive http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63679QQitemZ4569340531QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW =========================sp; - The Pietenpol-List Emator?Pietenpol-List ======================================= -- Rick Holland Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:26 AM PST US <003201c5a2cc$149033b0$ea3032cc@CPQ29466173462> <5.1.1.5.2.20050817085839.025377f8@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wyoming Pietenpol for sale on ebay It appears to be the older Pietenpol conversion, which put out about 70 hp. The Wynne conversion puts out over 90. At 7:30 AM -0700 8/18/05, Rick Holland wrote: >Interesting, he is selling it because the Corvair engine doesn't >have the power to drag it around at the 5250 ft. elevation. Given >that the airport I would fly out of is at 6880 I better look more >seriously at WWs turbo conversion. > >Rick H > >On 8/17/05, Michael D Cuy ><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> >wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy ><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > >just stumbled upon this in my semi-monthly search for Pietenpols on >ebay. Mike C. do not archive > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63679QQitemZ4569340531QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW >=========================sp; - The Pietenpol-List >Emator?Pietenpol-List ======================================= > > >-- >Rick Holland -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:57 AM PST US From: Kenneth Heide Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders in North Dakota/Minnesota Members of the list: I recently purchased a set of plans to build a Pietenpol. Anyone interested in assisting me in and or around the Detroit Lakes, Minnesota area? Would enjoy working with others to make this plane come to life. I am a native of Albany, Wisconsin just 7 miles to the west of Brodhead, WI They are some fantastic builders at that airport and well worth the time to visit. Anyone interested please contact me at 218-486-1963 Home or Work 701-364-9100 Ken Heide ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:56 PM PST US <002c01c5a0e1$9a1f3770$6401a8c0@FAMILY> From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet(?) owner with questions Dear Pietenpolers, My dad and a friend and I just bought a Pietenpol built in the late 70s. The plane had been regularly flown by the seller right up to the day that we bought it. He had purchased the plane from the widow of the builder, who died a few years ago. Hence, we cannot ask him some of the questions that I'm going to be asking on this list. Though the plane is registered as a Pietenpol Air Camper (two separate words), after trucking it home 1000 miles and upon close inspection, it appears to be a combination of Pietenpol and Grega designs - would that be a Griegenpol or a Priega? :) The only plans we have for it are Grega, but it's a plans set from the 80s, well after the plane had been flying, so this is not the plans that the plane was built from. The landing gear appears to be Pietenpol, with the fuselage lift strut fittings doing double duty as landing gear strut fittings. These fittings are connected with one another by a metal strap that runs under the fuselage directly under the cross-member that is visible from inside the cockpit. The strap is simply bolted to each fitting by two AN3 bolts running vertically through the wooden cross-member and floorboard. Our front strap is bowed/bent on the left side, halfway between the centerline and the left strut bracket. There are absolutely no other signs of damage or stress to the wooden or metal members attached to or surrounding this assembly, nor are there obvious signs of repair. We're not sure how this could be unless a hard landing years ago caused the strap to bend, and a bunch of repairs were made so expertly that they are not detectable. I guess it could have happened during the truck drive home, but if so, it was the only damage to anything on the plane. I've check with the seller, who was very up-front about other issues, and he says that the plane never had a damaging landing in the last three years, nor had he seen the bulge of the bent strap through the fabric (which is what we noticed once we got the plane home). Note that it's not easy to see - the plane is all white. Is there a consensus in the on the use of a steel strap running across and under the fuselage between strut fittings? Should we replace with another strap or maybe use angle, channel, or square tubing to prevent another bend? All thoughts are welcome and thanks for reading this far. Jeff ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:15 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Captain Gantzer Smoke Oil news Hey Mikee, Thanks for the info !! Now I have to find out if it is available in town. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:30 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Piet(?) owner with questions From: "Steve Eldredge" I have seen this once. In this case the bend was caused during a ground loop that put the gear in compression on one side. Normal flight loads have the bar in tension. In our case the other repairs needed solved the problem, but there was no wood damage. Probably worth investigating, but it may turn out to be minor. Steve e ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet(?) owner with questions Dear Pietenpolers, My dad and a friend and I just bought a Pietenpol built in the late 70s. The plane had been regularly flown by the seller right up to the day that we bought it. He had purchased the plane from the widow of the builder, who died a few years ago. Hence, we cannot ask him some of the questions that I'm going to be asking on this list. Though the plane is registered as a Pietenpol Air Camper (two separate words), after trucking it home 1000 miles and upon close inspection, it appears to be a combination of Pietenpol and Grega designs - would that be a Griegenpol or a Priega? :) The only plans we have for it are Grega, but it's a plans set from the 80s, well after the plane had been flying, so this is not the plans that the plane was built from. The landing gear appears to be Pietenpol, with the fuselage lift strut fittings doing double duty as landing gear strut fittings. These fittings are connected with one another by a metal strap that runs under the fuselage directly under the cross-member that is visible from inside the cockpit. The strap is simply bolted to each fitting by two AN3 bolts running vertically through the wooden cross-member and floorboard. Our front strap is bowed/bent on the left side, halfway between the centerline and the left strut bracket. There are absolutely no other signs of damage or stress to the wooden or metal members attached to or surrounding this assembly, nor are there obvious signs of repair. We're not sure how this could be unless a hard landing years ago caused the strap to bend, and a bunch of repairs were made so expertly that they are not detectable. I guess it could have happened during the truck drive home, but if so, it was the only damage to anything on the plane. I've check with the seller, who was very up-front about other issues, and he says that the plane never had a damaging landing in the last three years, nor had he seen the bulge of the bent strap through the fabric (which is what we noticed once we got the plane home). Note that it's not easy to see - the plane is all white. Is there a consensus in the on the use of a steel strap running across and under the fuselage between strut fittings? Should we replace with another strap or maybe use angle, channel, or square tubing to prevent another bend? All thoughts are welcome and thanks for reading this far. Jeff ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:48 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet(?) owner with questions In a message dated 8/18/2005 4:37:35 PM Central Standard Time, jboatri@emory.edu writes: Our front strap is bowed/bent on the left side, halfway between the centerline and the left strut bracket. Jeff, I had the same thing happen on my plane. I've seen it on other Pietenpol's, too. My strap is one piece, from lift strut fitting to lift strut fitting. I originally built it without any bolts down through the cross strap. I believe it is caused by hard landings, causing the wing panels to load the lift struts, and cross strap in compression, causing the slight buckle. Even though it isn't very much, it caused the incidence of the left wing to decrease, causing a slight left wing heavy condition. I repaired it by using three #10 bolts / washers (3/16" bolts) down through the Ash cross member and cross strap - one in the center, and the other two spaced evenly to the outboard. The left wing heavy went away, and I've had no problems ever since. The aft strap has plenty of hardware going through it to keep it from bowing down. The brake cylinders, front seat belt, and rudder bar support all have hardware going down through the aft Ash cross piece and cross strap. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:56 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers Harvey, It is possible that Preceptor discouraged you from using a Warp Drive propeller on your N3 Pup because it had a direct drive two cylinder 4-stroke engine. With only two cylinders, the power impulses are going to be widely spaced. A friend has an N3 Pup with the two cylinder 40 hp Mosler which has relatively high compression and lots of "snap". I have never heard of such a restriction on a four cylinder direct drive engine and know of quite a few four cylinder Continentals (A 65, C 85, C90 & O200) that seem to be successfully mated to the Warp Drive props. I was thinking of getting a Warp Drive prop for my 65 hp Wag-A-Bond and you are instilling some doubts in my mind. Has anyone on the list any information on this? Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:41 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cruising "on the step". --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Walt & everyone, All four short fuselage Pietenpols I have flown were very sensitive in both pitch and yaw and, as you stated, concentration is required to get maximum cruise speed. With my Pietenpol, it is easy to fly "cockeyed" merely by having the ball only slightly off center.This costs some speed. At the end of a full throttle climb, I don't reduce power until I have established the cruising attitude, using as reference the position of the nose on the horizon and the relationship of the underside of the wing to the horizon. Speed is allowed to build up and power is gradually reduced to the desired level to avoid disturbing this somewhat delicate situation. The feel of the aircraft, as well as the ASI and altimeter readings (I don't have a VSI, but having one would help), will tell you when you are "on the step". Over fifty years ago, a bush pilot (I was his mechanic) showed me how to get a bit more speed in cruise by trimming the A/C (DeHavilland Beaver, in this case) slightly tail heavy, requiring a slight forward pressure on the yoke. I don't have elevator trim on my Piet, so this isn't an option--but I have tried it on Taylorcrafts, Aeroncas, etc. In any case, these techniques work well only when the air is smooth. When it is turbulent, all bets are off. With my Pietenpol, in rough air I'm lucky to keep it pointed in the intended direction! Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:54 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers Hi Graham, The advise has been that nobody should use this type of propellers in any VW engine. Only the wooden two blades type. The "Legend" (I use this word when I have no first hand info on something) says that this props will not act as a flywheel like the wooden propelers. This make the crankshaft to break. I dont mention the brand of propellers that where the first ones to fail because was not "that" brand of props in specific, were all of them. Off course I have not tested personally this failure, or used any ground ajustable one, in my past VW engines. Mainly because loosing a blade or a propeller in flight is a SERIOUS CG problem... I just use(d) wooden props in the VW conversions I built. Not the case for the Piet, because averyone is advised not to use the VW in the Piet... Not even with the Valley Reduction ;-) Saludos Gary Gower. Graham Hansen wrote: Harvey, It is possible that Preceptor discouraged you from using a Warp Drive propeller on your N3 Pup because it had a direct drive two cylinder 4-stroke engine. With only two cylinders, the power impulses are going to be widely spaced. A friend has an N3 Pup with the two cylinder 40 hp Mosler which has relatively high compression and lots of "snap". I have never heard of such a restriction on a four cylinder direct drive engine and know of quite a few four cylinder Continentals (A 65, C 85, C90 & O200) that seem to be successfully mated to the Warp Drive props. I was thinking of getting a Warp Drive prop for my 65 hp Wag-A-Bond and you are instilling some doubts in my mind. Has anyone on the list any information on this? Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ---------------------------------