Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - lift strut strap buckling (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 04:41 AM - belly strap bowing (Michael D Cuy)
3. 04:46 AM - Re: Pietenpol Propellers (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
4. 06:49 AM - Builders in North Dakota / Minnesota (Dan Loegering)
5. 11:29 AM - Re: lift strut strap buckling (Jeff Boatright)
6. 01:20 PM - Re: lift strut strap buckling (walt evans)
7. 01:39 PM - Deep rambling thoughts (walt evans)
8. 02:16 PM - Re: lift strut strap buckling (Dave and Connie)
9. 03:26 PM - gap seals (Dick Navratil)
10. 03:57 PM - Re: Deep rambling thoughts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 04:11 PM - Re: gap seals (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
12. 04:22 PM - Re: Deep rambling thoughts (Gary Gower)
13. 06:15 PM - Continental 65 or 85 eyebrow patterns (Jim Cooper)
Message 1
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Subject: | lift strut strap buckling |
Jeff,
I too have seen this on many Piets, typically in the front strap.
It must be hard landings where not only is the lift strut loading that strap in
compression, but the gear bungee attachment is pulling that strut fitting down
at the same time. I think this introduces a kind of downward "rolling" motion
in that fitting which wants to buckle that belly strap.
Most people just add more bolts.
Interesting note, I've never seen it on a axle-geared Piet.
Good luck
Douwe
Message 2
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Subject: | belly strap bowing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Jeff- congratulations on buying a Pietenpol. I've seen those straps do the
same on my plane BEFORE it ever left my house.
I suspect that as humidity levels in the air change that the wood fuselage
expands and contracts accordingly (you can see this
on the plywood of planes like the Spruce Goose.) and so the strap either
bows or tightens in different conditions. My advice is
not to worry about it and it really is only a backup in cases of severe
turbulence or hard landings to prevent the bolts from ripping
thru the ash cross members.
Mike C.
Message 3
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Subject: | Pietenpol Propellers |
There was a notice that came out a while back that the warp drive ground
adjustable props where fracturing at the roots.That's what happened to
Dave Stroud ,the guy who fly's the Christavia at our field.He now has a
solid piece of lumber on the front.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers
Harvey,
It is possible that Preceptor discouraged you from using a Warp Drive
propeller on your N3 Pup because it had a direct drive two cylinder
4-stroke engine. With only two cylinders, the power impulses are going
to be widely spaced. A friend has an N3 Pup with the two cylinder 40 hp
Mosler which has relatively high compression and lots of "snap".
I have never heard of such a restriction on a four cylinder
direct drive engine and know of quite a few four cylinder Continentals
(A 65, C 85, C90 & O200) that seem to be successfully mated to the Warp
Drive props. I was thinking of getting a Warp Drive prop for my 65 hp
Wag-A-Bond and you are instilling some doubts in my mind.
Has anyone on the list any information on this?
Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Message 4
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Subject: | Builders in North Dakota / Minnesota |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
Hi Ken,
I would be very interested in sharing ideas with you as your project progresses,
and maybe you could teach me a thing or two as well!
I am in Fargo, ND and am only slightly farther along than you at this point - purchased
plans about 4 months ago and have been working on getting the basement
ready for the project and researching all that I can on building practices and
Piet specific items. Just purchased the Tony Bengalis series while at Oshkosh
and have been reading these the last few weeks. My rib jig is nearly complete
and I was literally going to place the order for capstrip and ply for the
ribs today. (I'll hold off now though until we can talk)
I started this venture with another individual with the intent on building two
aircraft side by side, and this may still happen once work slows down a bit this
winter (he manages outside construction crews). Our intent was to be able
to purchase materials together and ease the shipping charges. Neither of us are
in a hurry to get them flying though and I am planning on about a 5 year project
- wing ribs through this winter - tail surfaces next spring, fuse next fall,
etc... The plan was that we would each work on a different jig and then
swap jigs around as we completed phases.
In talking with the local EAA chapter, I believe there is another Piet project
in the area, but he is inactive on it (doesn't want to sell though...).
Drop me an email at "danl(at)odayequipment.com" so we can chat - I'll be driving
through tonight on my way to Ottertail - can't stop tonight, but I'll swing
over some time with my Cardinal. Sure will be a blast to cruise the lakes with
a flight of Piet's though!
Dan Loegering
Time: 11:30:57 AM PST US
From: Kenneth Heide <km>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders in North Dakota/Minnesota
Members of the list:
I recently purchased a set of plans to build a Pietenpol. Anyone interested in
assisting me in and or around the Detroit Lakes, Minnesota area? Would enjoy working
with others to make this plane come to life.
I am a native of Albany, Wisconsin just 7 miles to the west of Brodhead, WI They
are some fantastic builders at that airport and well worth the time to visit.
Anyone interested please contact me at 218-486-1963 Home or Work 701-364-9100
Ken Heide
_
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: lift strut strap buckling |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Thanks to all those who responded. I think we'll replace the strap
since we've already cut the fabric to assess damage. To avoid bends
in the future, we'll probably replace the strap with angle or channel.
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: lift strut strap buckling |
<a06010228bf2bd47fe240@[163.246.59.196]>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Jeff,
My Piet has been flying for about 3 years now. I noticed that my straps,
especially the front one, was bellied down before I ever took it to the
airport. Think it's from a common mistake where you have the fuse upside
down and making all the parts , and not realizing that when you finally
tighten the brackets that support the wing struts,the landing gear, and
connects the strap,,,that a little bit of compression that was not there
before, bows that strap out a bit. You could remove the strap and open the
holes, but that would defeat the purpose. The strap is made to take the
load from the wing struts in an emergency. The wing load wants to pull the
ash strip ,on the floor, apart. Incase the bolts let go you still have a
continious "strap".
If you want to repair, I would replace the flat strap with simular from the
print. To use angle or channel would cause drag, look bad, blah blah.
And since it's in tension (when needed) angle or channel won't add
anything.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lift strut strap buckling
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> Thanks to all those who responded. I think we'll replace the strap
> since we've already cut the fabric to assess damage. To avoid bends
> in the future, we'll probably replace the strap with angle or channel.
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Deep rambling thoughts |
Anybody get to thinking ,,after you take people for a ride,, maybe during the drive
home,, "They asked the same old questions, "you really built this by hand?
From these prints? It's just glued together? How high can you go? What
if the engine quits?""""
And you realize that you actually created each and every piece of this plane!!!
Some build clocks, some boats, some jewlery boxes,,,but rarely is the builders
"arse" accountable for the result.
And I look at the plane and say to myself,,,"I actually fabricated each and every
part of this plane".
I'm proud of the way my plane came out. And I wish it was as good as others I've
seen. but all through my building process, my Mentor's words rattled in my
head every time I held the piece up and gave it a final look. " In building
airplanes,,,there's no such thing as ""That's good enough"" (Dick Lawson EAA#272)
walt evans
NX140DL
PS think about things like this when it's a rainy day, and know that winter's
comming.
Ain't life grand!
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: lift strut strap buckling |
<a06010228bf2bd47fe240@[163.246.59.196]>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
Jeff,
If the strap is bending because the wood is moving as some have suggested -
maybe Mike C? - I would be careful about putting in a piece of metal that
cannot bend. When the wood moves, and it will, if the metal won't move too
then the wood is going to move something else.
Dave
At 02:26 PM 8/19/2005, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
>Thanks to all those who responded. I think we'll replace the strap since
>we've already cut the fabric to assess damage. To avoid bends in the
>future, we'll probably replace the strap with angle or channel.
>--
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
>Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
>Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
>mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Message 9
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I know that gap seals hve been discussed before, but I just want to ad a bit more
to it. At Broadhead I had discussed my takeoff problems with a few of you.
If I wasn't careful and didn't add power slowly, while pinning the stick foward,
the plane would want to fly before it had the speed. This would cause the
plane to want to stall at the ground. I thought this might be the way a Piet
flew.
After telling my story to the old timers sitting around after all had left, they
told me not to look at moving the gear aft as I was thinking but to gap seal
the elevators. I have piano hinge on the ailerions so I hadn't thought much
about the elevators.
After locating some duct tape at Brodhead I taped up the elevators. Right away
it flew like a completely diffrent plane.
It is much easier to handle on takeoff, tail comes right up and the stick is much
lighter. On landing it is more responsive. In cruise it adds about 2 mph.
My only question in all of this is, what to replace the duct tape with for a permanent
addition? My first thought is a closed cell foam that we use at work
as an expansion joint in concrete. Next might be strips of leather or a mylar
tape.
Any suggestions?
Dick N.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Deep rambling thoughts |
In a message dated 8/19/2005 3:41:09 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans@verizon.net writes:
Anybody get to thinking ,,after you take people for a ride,, maybe during the
drive home,, "They asked the same old questions, "you really built this by
hand? From these prints? It's just glued together? How high can you go?
What if the engine quits?""""
And you realize that you actually created each and every piece of this
plane!!!
Some build clocks, some boats, some jewlery boxes,,,but rarely is the
builders "arse" accountable for the result.
And I look at the plane and say to myself,,,"I actually fabricated each and
every part of this plane".
I'm proud of the way my plane came out. And I wish it was as good as others
I've seen. but all through my building process, my Mentor's words rattled in
my head every time I held the piece up and gave it a final look. " In
building airplanes,,,there's no such thing as ""That's good enough"" (Dick Lawson
EAA#272)
walt evans
NX140DL
PS think about things like this when it's a rainy day, and know that
winter's comming.
Ain't life grand!
Walt,
I'm pretty sure that everyone who has completed and fly an airplane, has
had these thoughts and questions posed to them. Some other popular questions
are "How fast does it go ?", or "How far can you go ?" I think the general
public views airplanes as methods to go farther and faster, and probably believe
it is rather risky, too. Their beliefs are with merit. One thing John Q.
Public seems to have difficulty comprehending, is the sheer joy of
flight...until we take them up for a ride in a Pietenpol !! The sights, sounds,
and
feelings are truly one of a kind.
As far as completing and flying a homebuilt airplane, Mr. Lawson offers
some very good advise. I think for most of us it is a major lifetime
accomplishment, second only to raising a family. It will be one of the legacy's
we
will be remembered for when we are gone. It is a Very unique accomplishment, due
in large part to the EAA, that is not even possible in most other parts of
the world. The Freedom we have here in America is one to be cherished.
Yes, Life is Grand !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Message 11
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Dick,
I made empenage gap seals for my plane while in the construction phase,
therefore I can't compare the performance to being without the empenage gap seals.
Here is an area where I varied from the plans just a little, but I didn't
want to endorse the change till I had some flight time on the plane. Curse
me all you purists !! We all know how important it is to seal the gaps at the
ailerons. I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps with
a strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting.
Now, I just didn't like the big gaps at the hinges of the elevators
(flippers) and rudder. I used the same method I used when building model planes,
I
call it a 'Double Monocoat Hinge'. I used Vi Kappler aluminum hinges, and
after building and fitting the control surfaces, before covering, I glued a
triangle piece of bulsa wood to the trailing edge of the horiz & vert stabs, and
the leading edge of the flippers and rudder, leaving a gap of 1/4" between the
tips of these triangle pieces, in line with and the same diameter as the hinge
pins. I then covered all the flight surfaces in the conventional manner,
assembled the flight surfaces with the pins, then glued a fabric strip down each
slope of the triangle piece, across the gap, then up the other triangle piece,
and trimmed it. I did this on the top and the bottom, so two layers of
fabric bridge the 1/4" gap, right on the hinge line.
Advantages:
1) It seals any air from leaking at the hinge, when the flight surface is
deflected, therefore less deflection is needed, thus reducing drag.
2) It is a secondary attachment of the flight surfaces, in the event of a
hinge failure, and keeps the hinge pins from working out, even if the cotter key
is gone.
3) It prevents any sticks or stuff from becoming lodged in the hinge area,
when operating out of unimproved strips.
4) Hawks don't have any gaps in their tail.
5) I included a picture.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Deep rambling thoughts |
Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/19/2005 3:41:09 PM Central Standard Time,
wbeevans@verizon.net writes:
Anybody get to thinking ,,after you take people for a ride,, maybe during the drive
home,, "They asked the same old questions, "you really built this by hand?
From these prints? It's just glued together? How high can you go? What
if the engine quits?""""
And you realize that you actually created each and every piece of this plane!!!
Some build clocks, some boats, some jewlery boxes,,,but rarely is the builders
"arse" accountable for the result.
And I look at the plane and say to myself,,,"I actually fabricated each and every
part of this plane".
I'm proud of the way my plane came out. And I wish it was as good as others I've
seen. but all through my building process, my Mentor's words rattled in my
head every time I held the piece up and gave it a final look. " In building
airplanes,,,there's no such thing as ""That's good enough"" (Dick Lawson EAA#272)
walt evans
NX140DL
PS think about things like this when it's a rainy day, and know that winter's
comming.
Ain't life grand!
Walt,
I'm pretty sure that everyone who has completed and fly an airplane, has had
these thoughts and questions posed to them. Some other popular questions are
"How fast does it go ?", or "How far can you go ?" I think the general public
views airplanes as methods to go farther and faster, and probably believe it
is rather risky, too. Their beliefs are with merit. One thing John Q. Public
seems to have difficulty comprehending, is the sheer joy of flight...until
we take them up for a ride in a Pietenpol !! The sights, sounds, and feelings
are truly one of a kind.
As far as completing and flying a homebuilt airplane, Mr. Lawson offers some
very good advise. I think for most of us it is a major lifetime accomplishment,
second only to raising a family. It will be one of the legacy's we will
be remembered for when we are gone. It is a Very unique accomplishment, due in
large part to the EAA, that is not even possible in most other parts of the
world. The Freedom we have here in America is one to be cherished.
Yes, Life is Grand !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
*******************************************
Yes Chuck and Walt,
Same Questions Worldwide! Is amazing...
Also I think that the "risky" feeling to airplanes is caused by the Movies...
Almost 98% of the movies where a GA airplanes flyes...
yes, will crash! then the movie's trama beguins...
Also how many cars have been lost, because everytime (in the movies) a car gets
fire.... It expodes as it was full of dinamite!!! When a car beguins to
burn, just a simple coke (shaking to pressurise) will stop the fire. They dont
explode.
Well, flying is great, sharing the flight its greater...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Message 13
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Subject: | Continental 65 or 85 eyebrow patterns |
If anyone needs the eyebrow patterns for a 65 or 85 Continental engine, please
contact Tom Schildt at 337/989-8148. I have them and will be out of town until
Sept. 20. Thank you, Jim Cooper
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