Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 08/19/05


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:38 AM - lift strut strap buckling (Douwe Blumberg)
     2. 04:41 AM - belly strap bowing (Michael D Cuy)
     3. 04:46 AM - Re: Pietenpol Propellers (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
     4. 06:49 AM - Builders in North Dakota / Minnesota (Dan Loegering)
     5. 11:29 AM - Re: lift strut strap buckling (Jeff Boatright)
     6. 01:20 PM - Re: lift strut strap buckling (walt evans)
     7. 01:39 PM - Deep rambling thoughts (walt evans)
     8. 02:16 PM - Re: lift strut strap buckling (Dave and Connie)
     9. 03:26 PM - gap seals (Dick Navratil)
    10. 03:57 PM - Re: Deep rambling thoughts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    11. 04:11 PM - Re: gap seals (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
    12. 04:22 PM - Re: Deep rambling thoughts (Gary Gower)
    13. 06:15 PM - Continental 65 or 85 eyebrow patterns (Jim Cooper)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:38:25 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: lift strut strap buckling
    Jeff, I too have seen this on many Piets, typically in the front strap. It must be hard landings where not only is the lift strut loading that strap in compression, but the gear bungee attachment is pulling that strut fitting down at the same time. I think this introduces a kind of downward "rolling" motion in that fitting which wants to buckle that belly strap. Most people just add more bolts. Interesting note, I've never seen it on a axle-geared Piet. Good luck Douwe


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:41:00 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: belly strap bowing
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Jeff- congratulations on buying a Pietenpol. I've seen those straps do the same on my plane BEFORE it ever left my house. I suspect that as humidity levels in the air change that the wood fuselage expands and contracts accordingly (you can see this on the plywood of planes like the Spruce Goose.) and so the strap either bows or tightens in different conditions. My advice is not to worry about it and it really is only a backup in cases of severe turbulence or hard landings to prevent the bolts from ripping thru the ash cross members. Mike C.


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:46:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Pietenpol Propellers
    From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
    There was a notice that came out a while back that the warp drive ground adjustable props where fracturing at the roots.That's what happened to Dave Stroud ,the guy who fly's the Christavia at our field.He now has a solid piece of lumber on the front. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Propellers Harvey, It is possible that Preceptor discouraged you from using a Warp Drive propeller on your N3 Pup because it had a direct drive two cylinder 4-stroke engine. With only two cylinders, the power impulses are going to be widely spaced. A friend has an N3 Pup with the two cylinder 40 hp Mosler which has relatively high compression and lots of "snap". I have never heard of such a restriction on a four cylinder direct drive engine and know of quite a few four cylinder Continentals (A 65, C 85, C90 & O200) that seem to be successfully mated to the Warp Drive props. I was thinking of getting a Warp Drive prop for my 65 hp Wag-A-Bond and you are instilling some doubts in my mind. Has anyone on the list any information on this? Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:49:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Builders in North Dakota / Minnesota
    From: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com> Hi Ken, I would be very interested in sharing ideas with you as your project progresses, and maybe you could teach me a thing or two as well! I am in Fargo, ND and am only slightly farther along than you at this point - purchased plans about 4 months ago and have been working on getting the basement ready for the project and researching all that I can on building practices and Piet specific items. Just purchased the Tony Bengalis series while at Oshkosh and have been reading these the last few weeks. My rib jig is nearly complete and I was literally going to place the order for capstrip and ply for the ribs today. (I'll hold off now though until we can talk) I started this venture with another individual with the intent on building two aircraft side by side, and this may still happen once work slows down a bit this winter (he manages outside construction crews). Our intent was to be able to purchase materials together and ease the shipping charges. Neither of us are in a hurry to get them flying though and I am planning on about a 5 year project - wing ribs through this winter - tail surfaces next spring, fuse next fall, etc... The plan was that we would each work on a different jig and then swap jigs around as we completed phases. In talking with the local EAA chapter, I believe there is another Piet project in the area, but he is inactive on it (doesn't want to sell though...). Drop me an email at "danl(at)odayequipment.com" so we can chat - I'll be driving through tonight on my way to Ottertail - can't stop tonight, but I'll swing over some time with my Cardinal. Sure will be a blast to cruise the lakes with a flight of Piet's though! Dan Loegering Time: 11:30:57 AM PST US From: Kenneth Heide <km> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders in North Dakota/Minnesota Members of the list: I recently purchased a set of plans to build a Pietenpol. Anyone interested in assisting me in and or around the Detroit Lakes, Minnesota area? Would enjoy working with others to make this plane come to life. I am a native of Albany, Wisconsin just 7 miles to the west of Brodhead, WI They are some fantastic builders at that airport and well worth the time to visit. Anyone interested please contact me at 218-486-1963 Home or Work 701-364-9100 Ken Heide _


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:29:48 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: lift strut strap buckling
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> Thanks to all those who responded. I think we'll replace the strap since we've already cut the fabric to assess damage. To avoid bends in the future, we'll probably replace the strap with angle or channel. -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:20:58 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: lift strut strap buckling
    <a06010228bf2bd47fe240@[163.246.59.196]> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net> Jeff, My Piet has been flying for about 3 years now. I noticed that my straps, especially the front one, was bellied down before I ever took it to the airport. Think it's from a common mistake where you have the fuse upside down and making all the parts , and not realizing that when you finally tighten the brackets that support the wing struts,the landing gear, and connects the strap,,,that a little bit of compression that was not there before, bows that strap out a bit. You could remove the strap and open the holes, but that would defeat the purpose. The strap is made to take the load from the wing struts in an emergency. The wing load wants to pull the ash strip ,on the floor, apart. Incase the bolts let go you still have a continious "strap". If you want to repair, I would replace the flat strap with simular from the print. To use angle or channel would cause drag, look bad, blah blah. And since it's in tension (when needed) angle or channel won't add anything. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lift strut strap buckling > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> > > Thanks to all those who responded. I think we'll replace the strap > since we've already cut the fabric to assess damage. To avoid bends > in the future, we'll probably replace the strap with angle or channel. > -- > > _____________________________________________________________ > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD > Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis > mailto:jboatri@emory.edu > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:39:53 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: Deep rambling thoughts
    Anybody get to thinking ,,after you take people for a ride,, maybe during the drive home,, "They asked the same old questions, "you really built this by hand? From these prints? It's just glued together? How high can you go? What if the engine quits?"""" And you realize that you actually created each and every piece of this plane!!! Some build clocks, some boats, some jewlery boxes,,,but rarely is the builders "arse" accountable for the result. And I look at the plane and say to myself,,,"I actually fabricated each and every part of this plane". I'm proud of the way my plane came out. And I wish it was as good as others I've seen. but all through my building process, my Mentor's words rattled in my head every time I held the piece up and gave it a final look. " In building airplanes,,,there's no such thing as ""That's good enough"" (Dick Lawson EAA#272) walt evans NX140DL PS think about things like this when it's a rainy day, and know that winter's comming. Ain't life grand!


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:16:39 PM PST US
    From: Dave and Connie <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: lift strut strap buckling
    <a06010228bf2bd47fe240@[163.246.59.196]> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie <dmatt@frontiernet.net> Jeff, If the strap is bending because the wood is moving as some have suggested - maybe Mike C? - I would be careful about putting in a piece of metal that cannot bend. When the wood moves, and it will, if the metal won't move too then the wood is going to move something else. Dave At 02:26 PM 8/19/2005, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> > >Thanks to all those who responded. I think we'll replace the strap since >we've already cut the fabric to assess damage. To avoid bends in the >future, we'll probably replace the strap with angle or channel. >-- > >_____________________________________________________________ >Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD >Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA >Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis >mailto:jboatri@emory.edu > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:26:49 PM PST US
    From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: gap seals
    I know that gap seals hve been discussed before, but I just want to ad a bit more to it. At Broadhead I had discussed my takeoff problems with a few of you. If I wasn't careful and didn't add power slowly, while pinning the stick foward, the plane would want to fly before it had the speed. This would cause the plane to want to stall at the ground. I thought this might be the way a Piet flew. After telling my story to the old timers sitting around after all had left, they told me not to look at moving the gear aft as I was thinking but to gap seal the elevators. I have piano hinge on the ailerions so I hadn't thought much about the elevators. After locating some duct tape at Brodhead I taped up the elevators. Right away it flew like a completely diffrent plane. It is much easier to handle on takeoff, tail comes right up and the stick is much lighter. On landing it is more responsive. In cruise it adds about 2 mph. My only question in all of this is, what to replace the duct tape with for a permanent addition? My first thought is a closed cell foam that we use at work as an expansion joint in concrete. Next might be strips of leather or a mylar tape. Any suggestions? Dick N.


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:57:48 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Deep rambling thoughts
    In a message dated 8/19/2005 3:41:09 PM Central Standard Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: Anybody get to thinking ,,after you take people for a ride,, maybe during the drive home,, "They asked the same old questions, "you really built this by hand? From these prints? It's just glued together? How high can you go? What if the engine quits?"""" And you realize that you actually created each and every piece of this plane!!! Some build clocks, some boats, some jewlery boxes,,,but rarely is the builders "arse" accountable for the result. And I look at the plane and say to myself,,,"I actually fabricated each and every part of this plane". I'm proud of the way my plane came out. And I wish it was as good as others I've seen. but all through my building process, my Mentor's words rattled in my head every time I held the piece up and gave it a final look. " In building airplanes,,,there's no such thing as ""That's good enough"" (Dick Lawson EAA#272) walt evans NX140DL PS think about things like this when it's a rainy day, and know that winter's comming. Ain't life grand! Walt, I'm pretty sure that everyone who has completed and fly an airplane, has had these thoughts and questions posed to them. Some other popular questions are "How fast does it go ?", or "How far can you go ?" I think the general public views airplanes as methods to go farther and faster, and probably believe it is rather risky, too. Their beliefs are with merit. One thing John Q. Public seems to have difficulty comprehending, is the sheer joy of flight...until we take them up for a ride in a Pietenpol !! The sights, sounds, and feelings are truly one of a kind. As far as completing and flying a homebuilt airplane, Mr. Lawson offers some very good advise. I think for most of us it is a major lifetime accomplishment, second only to raising a family. It will be one of the legacy's we will be remembered for when we are gone. It is a Very unique accomplishment, due in large part to the EAA, that is not even possible in most other parts of the world. The Freedom we have here in America is one to be cherished. Yes, Life is Grand !! Chuck Gantzer NX770CG


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:11:26 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: gap seals
    Dick, I made empenage gap seals for my plane while in the construction phase, therefore I can't compare the performance to being without the empenage gap seals. Here is an area where I varied from the plans just a little, but I didn't want to endorse the change till I had some flight time on the plane. Curse me all you purists !! We all know how important it is to seal the gaps at the ailerons. I used the plans barn door hinges, and sealed the aileron gaps with a strip of 3" fabric tape, centering it over the gap, before painting. Now, I just didn't like the big gaps at the hinges of the elevators (flippers) and rudder. I used the same method I used when building model planes, I call it a 'Double Monocoat Hinge'. I used Vi Kappler aluminum hinges, and after building and fitting the control surfaces, before covering, I glued a triangle piece of bulsa wood to the trailing edge of the horiz & vert stabs, and the leading edge of the flippers and rudder, leaving a gap of 1/4" between the tips of these triangle pieces, in line with and the same diameter as the hinge pins. I then covered all the flight surfaces in the conventional manner, assembled the flight surfaces with the pins, then glued a fabric strip down each slope of the triangle piece, across the gap, then up the other triangle piece, and trimmed it. I did this on the top and the bottom, so two layers of fabric bridge the 1/4" gap, right on the hinge line. Advantages: 1) It seals any air from leaking at the hinge, when the flight surface is deflected, therefore less deflection is needed, thus reducing drag. 2) It is a secondary attachment of the flight surfaces, in the event of a hinge failure, and keeps the hinge pins from working out, even if the cotter key is gone. 3) It prevents any sticks or stuff from becoming lodged in the hinge area, when operating out of unimproved strips. 4) Hawks don't have any gaps in their tail. 5) I included a picture. Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:22:42 PM PST US
    From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Deep rambling thoughts
    Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/19/2005 3:41:09 PM Central Standard Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: Anybody get to thinking ,,after you take people for a ride,, maybe during the drive home,, "They asked the same old questions, "you really built this by hand? From these prints? It's just glued together? How high can you go? What if the engine quits?"""" And you realize that you actually created each and every piece of this plane!!! Some build clocks, some boats, some jewlery boxes,,,but rarely is the builders "arse" accountable for the result. And I look at the plane and say to myself,,,"I actually fabricated each and every part of this plane". I'm proud of the way my plane came out. And I wish it was as good as others I've seen. but all through my building process, my Mentor's words rattled in my head every time I held the piece up and gave it a final look. " In building airplanes,,,there's no such thing as ""That's good enough"" (Dick Lawson EAA#272) walt evans NX140DL PS think about things like this when it's a rainy day, and know that winter's comming. Ain't life grand! Walt, I'm pretty sure that everyone who has completed and fly an airplane, has had these thoughts and questions posed to them. Some other popular questions are "How fast does it go ?", or "How far can you go ?" I think the general public views airplanes as methods to go farther and faster, and probably believe it is rather risky, too. Their beliefs are with merit. One thing John Q. Public seems to have difficulty comprehending, is the sheer joy of flight...until we take them up for a ride in a Pietenpol !! The sights, sounds, and feelings are truly one of a kind. As far as completing and flying a homebuilt airplane, Mr. Lawson offers some very good advise. I think for most of us it is a major lifetime accomplishment, second only to raising a family. It will be one of the legacy's we will be remembered for when we are gone. It is a Very unique accomplishment, due in large part to the EAA, that is not even possible in most other parts of the world. The Freedom we have here in America is one to be cherished. Yes, Life is Grand !! Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ******************************************* Yes Chuck and Walt, Same Questions Worldwide! Is amazing... Also I think that the "risky" feeling to airplanes is caused by the Movies... Almost 98% of the movies where a GA airplanes flyes... yes, will crash! then the movie's trama beguins... Also how many cars have been lost, because everytime (in the movies) a car gets fire.... It expodes as it was full of dinamite!!! When a car beguins to burn, just a simple coke (shaking to pressurise) will stop the fire. They dont explode. Well, flying is great, sharing the flight its greater... Saludos Gary Gower.


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:15:20 PM PST US
    From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1@direcway.com>
    Subject: Continental 65 or 85 eyebrow patterns
    If anyone needs the eyebrow patterns for a 65 or 85 Continental engine, please contact Tom Schildt at 337/989-8148. I have them and will be out of town until Sept. 20. Thank you, Jim Cooper




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