Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Tuu2Tango@aol.com)
2. 05:16 AM - Re: First off-Field ()
3. 05:35 AM - light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations (Michael D Cuy)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations (Textor, Jack)
5. 06:08 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Robert Gow)
6. 06:30 AM - Re: light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations (hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com)
7. 06:34 AM - Fus. fuel tank. (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
8. 06:54 AM - Re: Rims and Tires (Gene Rambo)
9. 07:07 AM - Re: light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations (Michael D Cuy)
10. 07:08 AM - Re: Fus. fuel tank. (Jim Markle)
11. 07:10 AM - nose tank sketch-installation: the correct attachment ! (Michael D Cuy)
12. 09:18 AM - Re: nose tank sketch-installation: the correct (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
13. 09:41 AM - flex hose under tank (Michael D Cuy)
14. 09:55 AM - Re: flex hose under tank (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
15. 10:12 AM - Re: flex hose under tank (Michael D Cuy)
16. 10:58 AM - Re: flex hose under tank (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
17. 11:17 AM - fuel prices and gas tanks (hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com)
18. 11:44 AM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
19. 01:25 PM - Fus. Fuel tank idea (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
20. 03:27 PM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Chris Cosentino)
21. 05:04 PM - Re: Rims and Tires (Michael Conkling)
22. 07:54 PM - Re: Fus. Fuel tank idea (Rick Holland)
23. 08:14 PM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Rick Holland)
24. 09:02 PM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Jeff Boatright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
I think this is the crash that occured at Gimli Industrial Airpark in
Manitoba, Canada. The aircraft is a highly modified Caribou, converted to turbine
power and operated under the Experimental catagory of CAR 4b. It had flown the
year prior to the crash.
.
The complete report can be found starting on page 6 of a PDF file at this
website...
_http://www.asasi.org/papers/2001/Four%20Unrelated%20Accidents.pdf_
(http://www.asasi.org/papers/2001/Four%20Unrelated%20Accidents.pdf)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First off-Field |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
>You have to try landing in corn when it's not harvested.You talk about gettin
beaten up.This was done with an ultralight not enclosed.
> From: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
> Date: 2005/08/29 Mon AM 09:23:56 EST
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: First off-Field
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
>
>
> Made my first off-field landing this Saturday evening, due to my own
> mistake I created a vapor lock between main and header tank.
> Flew for 25 minutes until my header tank was empty and she went into Glider
> "mode"
> Luckily I was at 2000 ft and over lot of flat farm land.
> Had to land a mile short of the home strip in a freshly harvested corn
> field, it was rough.
>
> But no damage, other than my own pride, sure like that split landing gear
> with the fat tires ;)
>
> I am making some small changes to the fuel lines trying to eliminate of
> this ever happening again.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations |
laval.com>
Hans-- I'm glad you landed safely and have determined the cause of your
fuel starvation problem. Excuse my continual
endorsement of the four-book series written by Tony Bingelis, but he shows
all types of fuel flow installations and knows
the do's and don't that are easily done without doing some valuable reading
first.
I can't help but recommend a nose-tank only for any kind of Pietenpol with
any kind of powerplant. You have the most
simple of designs with very short tubing/flexible tubing runs, a single
shutoff valve, a gascolator, and vented cap. You can
fit 17 gallons there too if you design it to fit the curved upper portion,
just under your aluminum cockpit cowling area.
With the nose tank you free up the entire center section for camping or any
other kind of gear. In my center section I can
fit my tent, sleeping air pad, cloth folding chair, tie downs, spare oil,
Marvel oil, and rags. It also makes for an excellent way
to easily inspect your aileron balance cable, turnbuckle, and two aileron
pullies.
With most Piets having tail-heavy syndrome, if you put your fuel just
behind the firewall instead of the cc, you help yoursefl
in the CG department.
The nose tank is easier to fill too....and if you spill some it doesn't run
down and drip on the pilot seat like a cc tank fill job can do.
Just some thoughts !
Simpler= lighter. Lighter= better performance and the ability to fly
passengers without a pucker factor in the high 9's.
Mike C.
Message 4
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| Subject: | light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Good thoughts Mike. How did you baffle your tank? If I recall, it was
welded aluminum.....?
Jack Textor
Des Moines
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations
Hans-- I'm glad you landed safely and have determined the cause of your
fuel starvation problem. Excuse my continual
endorsement of the four-book series written by Tony Bingelis, but he
shows
all types of fuel flow installations and knows
the do's and don't that are easily done without doing some valuable
reading
first.
I can't help but recommend a nose-tank only for any kind of Pietenpol
with
any kind of powerplant. You have the most
simple of designs with very short tubing/flexible tubing runs, a single
shutoff valve, a gascolator, and vented cap. You can
fit 17 gallons there too if you design it to fit the curved upper
portion,
just under your aluminum cockpit cowling area.
With the nose tank you free up the entire center section for camping or
any
other kind of gear. In my center section I can
fit my tent, sleeping air pad, cloth folding chair, tie downs, spare
oil,
Marvel oil, and rags. It also makes for an excellent way
to easily inspect your aileron balance cable, turnbuckle, and two
aileron
pullies.
With most Piets having tail-heavy syndrome, if you put your fuel just
behind the firewall instead of the cc, you help yoursefl
in the CG department.
The nose tank is easier to fill too....and if you spill some it doesn't
run
down and drip on the pilot seat like a cc tank fill job can do.
Just some thoughts !
Simpler= lighter. Lighter= better performance and the ability to fly
passengers without a pucker factor in the high 9's.
Mike C.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
That's a real video of the crash of the first prototype Turbo Caribou. I
think it was Winnipeg, but I don't remember anymore. The control locks were
never removed before take-off. I didn't know them personally but they were
friends-of friends that died in that crash. the project was picked up later
and I was privileged to work on it. The STC to convert the Caribou to
turbines is now held by Pen Turbo in the States. DECA Aviation in Toronto
with some minor assistance form our company (Avionics Design Services)
finished off the program.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
Dralle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations |
27, 2005) at 08/30/2005 09:30:34 AM
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
Thanks Mike,
I came so close to doing exactly that during building but decided to stay
with the BHP design.
Now after this and a few times having to fill to CC tank I am considering
it again.
It still can easily be done although it would be more work as CG will
change forward.
Filling the CC tank is real pain and spillage risk is high, did not happen
to me yet but I am sure Murphy's law will rule on this to.
Plus that Tank sitting above you during a more damaging emergency landing
is potential for being soaked in gas
Hans
Message 7
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ETAtAhQFEmWpUe9psACImwhWG9x/d4lwawIVAK/5V4nao7KD/vQvGG9vBd3S4QvK
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Good thoughts Mike. Unfortunately Model A builders like me are stuck
with the wing tank because of the high location of the Model A"s carb.
My carb. sets at the same height as the top of the fus. cowl.
eliminating gravity flow. Leon S. In hurricane free Kansas.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rims and Tires |
The Travel Air uses 30x5 wheels. The shock cord attaches to the axle and center
vee, unlike a Cub where the shock cord is entirely on the axle "spreader bar."
I could come up with measurements for the Travel Air if anyone thought it
would be useful, but I doubt it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Conkling<mailto:hpvs@southwind.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rims and Tires
Phil,
Look up the 1929-30 Travelair 2000 landing gear for how it could be done -- the
Travelair used 28 x 4 wheels with the shock cords attached to the center "vee"
(like a J-3 Cub). It will take some drafting time to figure axle placement
and landing gear angles for the right deck angle.
Concerning the straight axle Piets -- if I remember correctly, aren't Part 23
landing gear (only) stressed for about 3g's ??
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Miller<mailto:philip_miller_3@earthlink.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Rims and Tires
Is it possible to use split landing gear with spoked wheels? If so, are there
any special considerations about that (wheel dimensions limits, side loads,
etc.) I like the look of the spoked wheels, but the impact absorbtion, strength
and utility of the split axle sure looks more attractive. I'd miss those
beautiful ash struts though.
Phil Miller
PietenVair
Altadena,CA
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: light, simple, mindless fuel tank installations |
laval.com>
Jack-- I have no baffles in my tank. There are enough bends in that back
piece that it doesn't oil
can and the bottom is supported by two pieces of spruce running side to
side with s/s fuel tank straps
w/ felt glued to them cradling in the whole thing.
Good thoughts on the fuel above you during an accident, Hans. William
Wynne had a really neat idea
of making his cc out of fiberglass and using it as a structural member if
I'm not mistaken....but that
was also the cause of his burns after he had some carb ice and a forced
landing. A really great guy---hated
to see that happen. Lesson learned from all of these stories.
Some have asked if I get enough head pressure with my tank being all in the
nose and I performed flow testing
ala the Bingelis HP/min-flow-in-a-climb angle at the carb and I had the
required flow all the way down to just under 2 gallons.
So to fly safely full power in a climb, I need at least two gallons of fuel
in the tank or more. Not bad to have a useful load
of 15 gallons on board in a Piet.
Mike C.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fus. fuel tank. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Yeah, I know JUST what you mean, same here, I can relate, that's been my
experience.....
Ok, I'll admit it, I don't actually know what the heck we're talking about
here....but since I'm picking up MY (ready to "bolt on and fly") Model A
this weekend, I'm just kinda excited about being able to include myself in
the "Model A builders like me" group, along with Leon, Larry, Ken, Jeff,
Kip, Douwe, et al.....
Jim in Plano.....making PockaTa PockaTa sounds....all the time now.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fus. fuel tank.
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>
> Good thoughts Mike. Unfortunately Model A builders like me are stuck
> with the wing tank because of the high location of the Model A"s carb.
> My carb. sets at the same height as the top of the fus. cowl.
> eliminating gravity flow. Leon S. In hurricane free Kansas.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | nose tank sketch-installation: the correct attachment |
!
Guys--here is what my setup looks like.
Mike C.
Message 12
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attachment !
| Subject: | nose tank sketch-installation: the correct |
attachment !
attachment !
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
You see that flex tube and connection at the bottom of your tank,well
turn it around so it goes directly out to the fire wall instead of
having that loop in it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: nose tank sketch-installation: the correct
attachment !
Guys--here is what my setup looks like.
Mike C.
Message 13
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| Subject: | flex hose under tank |
ce.ca>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Harvey-- if I turned that fitting around I'd not have had room for my
shutoff valve and
a flex hose works to dampen vibration if in a loop or semi-loop as I have
it installed.
Has worked perfectly as drawn for 7 years and close to 400 hours of flying
time.
Mike C.
Message 14
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| Subject: | flex hose under tank |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
Ok ,I stand corrected.In my situation I have the shut of valve directly
below the tank with the connection going out to the gascolator with no
flex tube in it as per an AME and I have yet to test mine.I am also
having more of a problem trying to connect up the shut off cable because
the valve is facing 90 degrees from where yours is and I have to find
somewhere on the side to mount that cable and high enough so it can
still shut off the valve.
It does give me an idea though,I can still turn my valve around 90
degrees and still have the lower connection connected up the same.Thanks
for the picture.I may still land up putting the flex tube it yet.I have
a short piece going from the gascolator to the carb as it stands right
now.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flex hose under tank
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Harvey-- if I turned that fitting around I'd not have had room for my
shutoff valve and
a flex hose works to dampen vibration if in a loop or semi-loop as I
have
it installed.
Has worked perfectly as drawn for 7 years and close to 400 hours of
flying
time.
Mike C.
Message 15
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| Subject: | flex hose under tank |
ce.ca>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Harvey-- you know I had the exact same setup as you describe on your tank
and the reason I switched to the flex line is that I could not for the life
of me make
up that little line of alum. tubing with flares to match both my fuel valve
and my firewall
fitting !!! It was such a short run that I couldn't get it right-- could
not get the tube in the
flaring tool after I did one end.
I hear you on the actuator problem too on your valve orientation. You can
do it though !
;You know my IA was watching me toil with that short tubing connection and
HE was the one
who suggested I turn that blasted fitting around and run/purchase a s/s
braided flex hose
to complete the run--and boy am I glad I did. I can't take credit for
that installation idea, but
it has worked like a charm.
Don't forget to use fuel lube on all your threads/connections. It feels
like thick bees wax....and if
I'm not mistaken it just might be. I have some if you need it and can
ship it to you via mail.
You won't need more than a shot glass full for three airplanes worth.
Mike C.
Message 16
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| Subject: | flex hose under tank |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
I can't take credit for that flared alluminum pipe either because it was
already done when I got the plane.Yes sir I used fuel lube on all my
connections even the ones at the flex hose and the AME said I didn't
need to.
He informed me on how sticky it is because he supplied me with some and
your right it doesn't take much.He was very enfatic on the point of not
getting it in the line too.If I can get that whole connection to move 90
degrees then I will fix my problem tonight after work.I figure I'll have
to disconnect that alluminum tube first though.Oh boy another trip
upside down and backwards while hanging on with my knees and one hand.I
have bruises all
up and down my one side from doing this acrobatic feat and I'm not
amused.The guys at the field keep telling me I'm having fun!This plane
building is interesting especially when most of its been done already
and I have to go in and fix it or modify it after the fact.I have had to
cut holes in the side of the aircraft just to install seat belts because
they were not put in.Interesting way to build.I see now why the guy at
the government office (when I went to apply for my registration) told me
that I would have to dismantle the plane and start over again;maybe he
had something there.I thought he was nuts at the time but I'm beginning
to think maybe he was right.Having fun here in cold Canada;I use that
term loosely!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: flex hose under tank
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Harvey-- you know I had the exact same setup as you describe on your
tank
and the reason I switched to the flex line is that I could not for the
life
of me make
up that little line of alum. tubing with flares to match both my fuel
valve
and my firewall
fitting !!! It was such a short run that I couldn't get it right--
could
not get the tube in the
flaring tool after I did one end.
I hear you on the actuator problem too on your valve orientation. You
can
do it though !
;You know my IA was watching me toil with that short tubing connection
and
HE was the one
who suggested I turn that blasted fitting around and run/purchase a s/s
braided flex hose
to complete the run--and boy am I glad I did. I can't take credit for
that installation idea, but
it has worked like a charm.
Don't forget to use fuel lube on all your threads/connections. It feels
like thick bees wax....and if
I'm not mistaken it just might be. I have some if you need it and can
ship it to you via mail.
You won't need more than a shot glass full for three airplanes worth.
Mike C.
Message 17
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| Subject: | fuel prices and gas tanks |
27, 2005) at 08/30/2005 02:16:48 PM
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
Some inside info: Gasoline wholesale price (automobil) just hit 2.40 ,
forty cents up from yesterday!
Fill up your gas tanks, retail price will be 3 + by the end of the week
Hans
Message 18
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| Subject: | fuel prices and gas tanks |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
Up here we are paying 1.03$ per litre which translates to 4X's that much
for a gallon.So we pay 4.12/gallon but then again our gallon is slightly
bigger than yours and our dollar is lower as well.Sooooo I think we are
about on par with you.But because our dollar is lower it seems like we
are paying twice as much.I am looking forward to the day when we can
stick it to them and fly on water for fuel!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel prices and gas tanks
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
Some inside info: Gasoline wholesale price (automobil) just hit 2.40 ,
forty cents up from yesterday!
Fill up your gas tanks, retail price will be 3 + by the end of the week
Hans
Message 19
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ETAtAhUAghB5HmEawieVTA59fIlm5UGzn+ICFC2plCl21uvX99rnCm/duzYFkCVU
| Subject: | Fus. Fuel tank idea |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
The man who had the Corvair project fuselage at Brodhead had a great
idea for his nose tank. It was a 12 gal. race car fuel cell from Jeggs.
They even have the foam inside. He said W. Wynn gave him the suggestion.
Leon S.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Chris Cosentino <ccosenti@cisco.com>
Hi Matt,
I asked on one of the flight sim boards I frequent.
Appears to be a full size De Havilland DHC-4T Caribou:
Some people linked to this document (page 7 - page 6 in PDF), starting fourth paragraph)
http://www.asasi.org/papers/2001/Four%20Unrelated%20Accidents.pdf
The final example I?d like to bring before you today also deals with a modified
aircraft.
Like the first event I described, it?s unusual because virtually the entire accident
sequence
is captured on videotape.
The accident occurred in August 1992 at the Gimli Industrial Park in Manitoba?a
famous site in Canadian aviation history, where an Air Canada Boeing 767 known
as the
Gimli Glider was dead-sticked onto a drag racing strip, following fuel exhaustion.
The accident aircraft is a highly modified de Havilland aircraft. In this case
a Caribou had
been converted to turbine power and was operated under the EXPERIMENTAL category
of CAR 4b.
The conversion was accomplished at Gimli, and the aircraft first flew in mid-November
1991, before accumulating about 23 hours on 12 flights by month end.
These preliminary tests revealed the need for the replacement of the aircraft?s
mechanical
vacuum pumps with a Bendix suction system, the addition of in-line fuel boost pumps
and the installation of a newly designed hydraulic pump.
The accident occurred on August 27, 1992 on the first of several planned trips
to flightcheck
the fuel and hydraulic systems. The aircraft had been hangared in a partially disassembled
state over the winter, and had only recently been re-assembled, including the
re-installation of the complete tail section.
I?ll let the video show you what happened?and I will caution you right now that
this
footage is extremely graphic?
[Video?]
The accident investigation used this videotape and some 35mm photographs as a key
resource in determining what went wrong at Gimli.
With the exception of a slightly higher-than-normal nose attitude at lift-off,
the aircraft?s
initial climb appeared normal. At about 35 feet AGL, the aircraft made a noticeable
pitchup
movement.
When I tell you that the photography revealed that the elevator control surfaces
were
observed to pitch trailing-edge-up for rotation, neutralize and then remain in
the neutral
position through the balance of that short flight, I expect most of you will come
to the
same conclusion as the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. The aircraft?s control
gust locks were at least partly engaged.
A very close examination of the video does indicate rudder movement and minimal
elevator movement, during the start of the takeoff roll.
On the standard Caribou, the gust lock control handle is located forward of the
power
quadrant, and it has two positions?forward for Unlocked, and aft for Locked. If
the
control surfaces are not in the neutral position when the lock is engaged, any
movement
of the surfaces through the neutral position will cause the lock to engage.
In addition, on the factory-standard Caribou, the control handle is designed so
that when
it is in the aft-Locked position, the power levers cannot be fully advanced. This
is
intended to prevent power application and takeoff when the gust lock system is
engaged.
The accident investigation further revealed that the aircraft?s takeoff distance
was
approximately 20 per cent longer than anticipated for the conditions. This may
provide
further evidence that the gust locks played a part in this event.
Analysis of the recovered debris indicated that, although the aileron and elevator
locking
mechanisms were in their respective Disengaged positions, the rudder locking
mechanism was found to have been in the fully engaged position at impact.
Further investigation revealed that in fact, it had been jammed there by the forces
of the
impact. In addition, the analysis determined from the damage evidence that the
aileron
control lock had been dis-engaged at the time of impact.
In its synopsis of the accident, the Transportation Safety Board concluded that
the control
gust lock system had not been fully disengaged prior to flight and that one or
more of the
locking pins had become re-engaged after lift-off.
See also:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920827-1
Narrative:
The aircraft took off for a test flight for a turbine-engine conversion programme.
It climbed steeply, rolled to the right and crashed in a nose-down, rightwing-low
attitude.
3 fatalities
Tuesday, August 30, 2005, 12:44:20 AM, dralle@matronics.com wrote:
-->> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
MD> Hi Listers,
MD> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
MD> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
MD> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
MD> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
MD> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
MD> Any information on this video would be intersting.
MD> Matt
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rims and Tires |
Thank you , Gene , for pointing out the error of my ways! ;-] Give me a
second to find a crayon so I can correct the Peter Westburg plans I was
looking at! (not! ;-) The Travel Air 2000 (OX-5 powered) actually was
spec'ed out with 26 x 4 wheels (I was wrong!!) -- The 30 x 5 showed up on
the 4000 3-seat Biplanes & 6000 Monoplanes.
I stand corrected on trying to describe the shock cord arrangement on the
2000 -- but it is closer to the "Cub" then it is to the '34 "Improved" Piet
(!).
For what it's worth, Doug Bryant (Wichita, KS) had built his Model "A" Piet
with "Improved" landing gear & wire wheels.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rims and Tires
The Travel Air uses 30x5 wheels. The shock cord attaches to the axle and
center vee, unlike a Cub where the shock cord is entirely on the axle
"spreader bar." I could come up with measurements for the Travel Air if
anyone thought it would be useful, but I doubt it.
Gene
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fus. Fuel tank idea |
I have always wondered why more homebuilders don't use these kind of fuel
tanks. As some people on the newsgroup have mentioned before, if a NASCAR
offical inspected the typical homebuild fuel system for safety he would
laugh his butt off. WW is very sensitive to the issue of crash-worthy fuel
systems after his burn injuries after a Piet crash. I know that few if any
prebuilt tanks would fit in the center section but fitting one behind the
firewall shouldn't be a problem.
On 8/30/05, Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>
> The man who had the Corvair project fuselage at Brodhead had a great
> idea for his nose tank. It was a 12 gal. race car fuel cell from Jeggs.
> They even have the foam inside. He said W. Wynn gave him the suggestion.
> Leon S.
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: fuel prices and gas tanks |
$2.40? Ha! Thats peanuts, I am in San Diego on a business trip and regular
is already $2.99 before any increase. By the way had the afternoon off and
visited the San Diego Aerospace Museam, it is excellent. They have the
original wing rib jig used to make the Spirt of St. Louis wing down the road
at Lindberg field and it used 1/2" x 1/4" cap strips just like the Piet
except they are rotated 90 degrees so the entire rib is 1/4" thick.
On 8/30/05, hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
>
>
> Some inside info: Gasoline wholesale price (automobil) just hit 2.40 ,
> forty cents up from yesterday!
> Fill up your gas tanks, retail price will be 3 + by the end of the week
>
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 24
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<984E798CE7C4D4419A6D99DF385597A896154C@toroondc511.bell.corp.bc e.ca>
<OF9EAED589.B026F5D2-ON8625706D.00644260-8625706D.00646941@alfalaval.com>
<ab80748b05083020147e3ef777@mail.gmail.com>
| Subject: | Re: fuel prices and gas tanks |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
That's $2.40 WHOLESALE.
I missed it, too, the first time I read it.
--
In other news, the city of New Orleans disappeared today. My personal
favorite for help in natural disasters is the Mennonite Disaster
Service. They come early, stay late; way, way after the TV cameras
leave:
http://www.mds.mennonite.net/
>$2.40? Ha! Thats peanuts, I am in San Diego on a business trip and
>regular is already $2.99 before any increase.
>
>...
>--
>Rick Holland
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