---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/02/05: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:41 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] (Jeff Boatright) 2. 05:56 AM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: Seat Belts (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 4. 11:45 AM - Re: Model A spark plug gaps (walt evans) 5. 12:28 PM - Securing Brake Line to Gear (Lynn Knoll) 6. 12:34 PM - seat belts (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 12:44 PM - Diesel Piet (Bill Church) 8. 02:57 PM - Re: Model A spark plug gaps (Larry Nelson) 9. 03:30 PM - Spirialing Slipstream (Rcaprd@aol.com) 10. 03:39 PM - Re: Model A spark plug gaps (walt evans) 11. 04:54 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05 (DONALD COOLEY) 12. 04:56 PM - Re: Spirialing Slipstream (walt evans) 13. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05 (Jim Markle) 14. 06:00 PM - Re: Spirialing Slipstream (sbobka@charter.net) 15. 07:37 PM - Re: Spirialing Slipstream & Other Forces (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:49 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright Thanks for the reminder. Piet content: The plan is to fly the Piet for the first time this evening! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! From: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com 27, 2005) at 09/02/2005 08:56:16 AM --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com Larry, Congratulations, enjoy. Hans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:28 AM PST US ETAsAhQ/76CmRolq4NlWJ9Era3oZhwi3IgIUWBx6qFv5d2Gs86SMzaynUerRipY= From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat Belts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) John: I mounted my belts from a suggestions in an old Buckeye Piet News. I put a 1x1x2" piece above the lower longeron at the attach location, then a U strap around the lower longeron with a bolt threw the added block above. Then a strap from the threw bolt, threw the ply seat bottom which I will attach the seat belt. The inverted U strap to the added block above the longeron so as to not have to drill a hole threw the longeron. I'm going to add a head rest as a routing for the shoulder harness. This will locate the sholder belts higher and cover the attach cable that I will run back to the tail wheel bolt. The front belts will hook up to eye bolts running threw the floor board, ash crossmember, and 14g steel strap. Front shoulder belts will attach to top cabane area ala Bill Ruewe I scrounged my belts at the Osh. fly market. Leon S. In Ks. giving to the Red Cross. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:05 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" If it's an Eisemann mag,,, it's .018" If this helps. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is a > discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently for > magneto use. > > Someone please save me the trouble of looking. > > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > Cessna 195 N9883A > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:53 PM PST US From: "Lynn Knoll" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Securing Brake Line to Gear We are ready to paint the split axel gear after welding some sort of clips or hold downs to the aft gear leg to secure the brake line. Would appreciate some ideas and suggestions. Lynn & Kevin Knoll Wichita Vair/Peit ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:57 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat belts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Now here's a topic I can post a useful opinion on. The seatbelts that came with NX41CC are just fine, but the connection between the shoulder belt and the lap belt buckle is not the best. It's like the typical Cessna connection which allows you to disconnect the shoulder harness from the lap belt buckle in order to lean forward or reach the floor, but the problem is that it comes off unexpectedly and usually without being noticed. In the case of 41CC, it is fortunate that Charlie did not have the shoulder harness disconnected prior to the nose-over incident or he would have been thrown forward with much more force; as it was, his forehead hit the ignition switch and snapped the key off in his forehead. I did not charge him for a replacement key, however ;o) The best type of harness setup is similar to the ones used in race cars and aerobatic planes, where the master buckle captures all of the straps in one release mechanism in a very positive way. The ones I have in my "Flying Squirrel" are from Summit Racing, 3" wide, and a fraction the cost of what the aero suppliers want for "authentic airplane" seatbelts. There are plenty of clear and descriptive website photos out there showing nifty ways of mounting both seat belts and shoulder harnesses for both cockpits. Some of the older methods are as on Ernie Moreno's Piet, photos at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html and one of the neatest passenger shoulder harness connections is somewhere on the U.K. Piet builders' site but I don't remember where. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Diesel Piet From: "Bill Church" Just had a peek at the UK Pietenpol site, and found some pictures of G-BUXK, taking it's maiden flight. http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/ G-BUXK is the first Pietenpol to be fitted with the new Wilksch WAM 100 three cylinder engine that can run on diesel or jet fuel. http://www.wilksch.com/ Looks like it works! The only drawback I see is the cost - approx 11,000 pounds, or $20,000 US. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:00 PM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson How about a Scintilla, Walt? I reckon I will set them at .018" just for fun. Goin' flyin' again manana with new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't have it on very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my very first flight. It went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go figure THAT ONE out. Thanks Walt. --- walt evans wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" > > > If it's an Eisemann mag,,, it's .018" > If this helps. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Nelson" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > > > > > > Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is > a > > discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently > for > > magneto use. > > > > Someone please save me the trouble of looking. > > > > Larry Nelson > > Springfield, MO > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > > Cessna 195 N9883A > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > > SV/ Spirit of America > > ARS WB0JOT > > > > __________________________________________________ > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Cessna 195 N9883A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:18 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream In a message dated 9/2/2005 5:00:27 PM Central Standard Time, lnelson208@yahoo.com writes: Goin' flyin' again manana with new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't have it on very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my very first flight. It went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go figure THAT ONE out. Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:16 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Larry, I don't know . It's just the concept was explained to me by my mentor. The era of the Eismann Mags were during a time that the voltage output wasn't that high. So the spark couldnt jump that far. Today the voltages are so high in the auto ignitions, that the amperage is low and the plugs last forever. My guess would be that if those mags are from the same era, the gap would be the same. I just searched on Google.com for "scintilla", then at the bottom under "search within results" searched "magneto" then under "search within results" again,,,searched "gap". Got oodles of sites explaining the old mags, and their gappage. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > How about a Scintilla, Walt? I reckon I will set them > at .018" just for fun. Goin' flyin' again manana with > new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't have it on > very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my > very first flight. It went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go > figure THAT ONE out. > > Thanks Walt. > > > --- walt evans wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" > > > > > > If it's an Eisemann mag,,, it's .018" > > If this helps. > > walt evans > > NX140DL > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Larry Nelson" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:15 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A spark plug gaps > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somewhere in my pile o' Pietenpol stuff, there is > > a > > > discussion of gapping Model A plugs differently > > for > > > magneto use. > > > > > > Someone please save me the trouble of looking. > > > > > > Larry Nelson > > > Springfield, MO > > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > > > Cessna 195 N9883A > > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > > > SV/ Spirit of America > > > ARS WB0JOT > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > Cessna 195 N9883A > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:12 PM PST US From: DONALD COOLEY Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05 Sr. Gower, Don't worry about your English...it's better than that we hear from some of our "native sons". I have always enjoyed your contributions and have never had any trouble understanding them. Keep up the good work! Don Cooley, rib jig under way in Fairfield, CA Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-01.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-09-01.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/01/05: 19 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:53 AM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 2. 04:18 AM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Jeff Boatright) 3. 08:56 AM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Larry Nelson) 4. 10:05 AM - Seat Belts (Egan, John) 5. 11:02 AM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Michael D Cuy) 6. 11:16 AM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Phillips, Jack) 7. 11:35 AM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Larry Nelson) 8. 11:48 AM - ribs & bbq sauce (Michael D Cuy) 9. 11:51 AM - Re: Seat Belts (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 10. 12:11 PM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Larry Nelson) 11. 12:14 PM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Galen Hutcheson) 12. 02:09 PM - Re: HAPI powered Pietenpol for sale on Barnstormers.com (Tuu2Tango@aol.com) 13. 02:14 PM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Gary Gower) 14. 03:09 PM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Rcaprd@aol.com) 15. 03:22 PM - Re: Try to wipe that smile off my face! (Christian Bobka) 16. 05:37 PM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Mitty) 17. 06:46 PM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Jeff Boatright) 18. 07:16 PM - Re: Model A spark plug gaps (Larry Nelson) 19. 07:20 PM - Re: fuel prices and gas tanks (Mitty) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel prices and gas tanks From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca I went to the New Orleans web page yesterday and they have bigger problems than anyone could imagine.There are now sharks and alligators wondering around in those waters.Boy ,that's scary! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel prices and gas tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark I got my commercial CFI and CFII at Jackson. Times like this bring out the best in people and the worst in people. I hope you told the guy what he could do with the hundred that someone would eventually pay even if you didn't. Yet with the jerks you don't hear about the good stories. My dad after Camile picked up a camp stove for my aunt in Gulfport at the time. He took it to the counter to check out. The owner looked at him and asked, "Is this going to someone on the Gulf Coast?" He told him it was for his sister in the Gulfport area. He just said, "No charge, and wish her my best." I was on the coast about 2 weeks after Camile. This has many simularities. Its almost like you combine the flooding of Virginia, but put it in worst terrain (New Orleans) and the other destruction and you have damage that will last for decades. The last time I was there only a few years ago you could still see some signs of Camile and that was decades later. This one will be no different and likely worse in some ways. Hopefully those that had airplanes in the area got them out and can go fly them occasionally to get away from the rest of the mess. Mitty wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mitty > >Here in Jackson ms yesterday some clown were selling 5 >gal jugs for $100.Damn bastards!! :(It's pretty bad >here at the moment.No gas,no drinking water...We got >power but my internet still dont work...SUX > >--- Rick Holland wrote: > > > >>$2.40? Ha! Thats peanuts, I am in San Diego on a >>business trip and regular >>is already $2.99 before any increase. By the way had >>the afternoon off and >>visited the San Diego Aerospace Museam, it is >>excellent. They have the >>original wing rib jig used to make the Spirt of St. >>Louis wing down the road >>at Lindberg field and it used 1/2" x 1/4" cap strips >>just like the Piet >>except they are rotated 90 degrees so the entire rib >>is 1/4" thick. >> >> >>On 8/30/05, hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com >> >>wrote: >> >> >>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: >>> >>> >>hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com >> >> >>>Some inside info: Gasoline wholesale price >>> >>> >>(automobil) just hit 2.40 , >> >> >>>forty cents up from yesterday! >>>Fill up your gas tanks, retail price will be 3 + >>> >>> >>by the end of the week >> >> >>>Hans >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>===================================== >>===================================== >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Rick Holland >> >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:41 AM PST US <984E798CE7C4D4419A6D99DF385597A8961557@toroondc511.bell.corp.bce.ca> <984E798CE7C4D4419A6D99DF385597A8961557@toroondc511.bell.corp.bce.ca> From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel prices and gas tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright http://www.mds.mennonite.net/ http://www.redcross.org/ http://www.aspca.org/ At 6:52 AM -0400 9/1/05, harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > >I went to the New Orleans web page yesterday and they have bigger >problems than anyone could imagine.There are now sharks and alligators >wondering around in those waters.Boy ,that's scary! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:58 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Howard Hendersons Pietenpol, N444MH (for MacLaren / Henderson I guess) flew this morning. I made three flights and everything went GREAT. She is a bit "right wing low" hand off, BUT she does has a broken left wing tip rib, that might be the cause of that, although it is hardly noticable. My little strip is just east of metro Springfield, MIssouri, the Flying Bar H. She is banana shaped in plan view and I didn't realize that till this morning when I looked DOWN on it. She is "take off to the SW and land to the NE" kind of strip, due to obstructions. Immediately upon departure you fly over a deep railroad "trench" with trees on both sides. Not a good place to have to put her back down, and on my mind, you can be sure. I just LOVE flying this plane. My first landing was the best. My last as just sort of flaring too high and she just settled in without complaint. Anyway, since Chuck wouldn't let me ride in HIS plane at Brodhead '04 (said I was way too fat, but he did take my friend Wes up).....I thought I need to join the fun. Try to wipe my smile off....I dare ya. Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat Belts From: "Egan, John" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" What is the best practice for seat and shoulder belts for a new Piet and does anybody have any purchase sourcing suggestions? Thanks all. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ============================================================================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:47 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Larry-- way to go. Congratulations on logging your 1st few flights in a Pietenpol !!! On the broken wingtip bow....is that the bow that is broken ? If so--that is a compression member and I'd not fly it like that. If it is a rib--less worry. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Way to go, Larry! Great feeling, isn't it? Depending on how the rib is broken, you might be able to repair it without having to do much fabric work. I had to repair one broken rib after my forced landing last fall and was able to do the repair in place by working through one inspection hole and a 6" slit in the fabric which was easily patched with tape. How did the rib get broken? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:03 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Mike, it is a rib that was actually broken, I believe, by HH hisself. Previous owner never repaired but I am planning on doing so this winter. --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Larry-- way to go. Congratulations on logging your > 1st few flights in a > Pietenpol !!! > > On the broken wingtip bow....is that the bow that is > broken ? If so--that > is a compression > member and I'd not fly it like that. If it is a > rib--less worry. > > Mike C. > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Cessna 195 N9883A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:26 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs & bbq sauce --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Larry-- that's great news. Just slather some bbq sauce on some ribs this weekend and worry about repairing the wood one when the flying season wanes and sunsets become annoyingly early ! Mike C. PS_-way to go ! PSS--- do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Seat Belts From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca I used the military type from Aircraft Spruce.I havn't flown with them yet but just sitting in the seat and making motor noises;they feel just fine. I bought the lap belt and two shoulder strap type that has a long single belt on the shoulder for feeding back behind the seat and around the cable and through the special wrap back on itself piece.It looks like a square piece of metal with slots in it.This piece comes with the order.I cut a slot in the wood that my back rests on,as high as I could get it without running into too much wood from the turtle deck.Seems to work OK. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egan, John Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat Belts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Egan, John" What is the best practice for seat and shoulder belts for a new Piet and does anybody have any purchase sourcing suggestions? Thanks all. ------ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ======================================================================== ====== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:12 PM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Jack, HH kept meticulous logs and so did Joe Santana. I believe it was HH that ground looped her. And thanks for the advice. --- "Phillips, Jack" wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, > Jack" > > Way to go, Larry! Great feeling, isn't it? > > Depending on how the rib is broken, you might be > able to repair it > without having to do much fabric work. I had to > repair one broken rib > after my forced landing last fall and was able to do > the repair in place > by working through one inspection hole and a 6" slit > in the fabric which > was easily patched with tape. How did the rib get > broken? > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Cessna 195 N9883A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:50 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Try to wipe that smile off my face! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Congratulations Larry!!! Say, I live in Harrison, AR just south of you. If you want to make a short long distance flight sometime, give me a call and come on down. Harrison (HRO) has around 6000' X 150' so it shouldn't give you much trouble. It's a nice flight too with the lakes to look at from the air. Have a great time enjoying your plane. Doc (H) 870-741-5539 Do Not Archive --- Larry Nelson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > > Howard Hendersons Pietenpol, N444MH (for MacLaren / > Henderson I guess) flew this morning. I made three > flights and everything went GREAT. > > She is a bit "right wing low" hand off, BUT she does > has a broken left wing tip rib, that might be the > cause of that, although it is hardly noticable. > > My little strip is just east of metro Springfield, > MIssouri, the Flying Bar H. She is banana shaped in > plan view and I didn't realize that till this > morning > when I looked DOWN on it. She is "take off to the SW > and land to the NE" kind of strip, due to > obstructions. Immediately upon departure you fly > over > a deep railroad "trench" with trees on both sides. > Not > a good place to have to put her back down, and on my > mind, you can be sure. > > I just LOVE flying this plane. My first landing was > the best. My last as just sort of flaring too high > and > she just settled in without complaint. > > Anyway, since Chuck wouldn't let me ride in HIS > plane > at Brodhead '04 (said I was way too fat, but he did > take my friend Wes up).....I thought I need to join > the fun. > > Try to wipe my smile off....I dare ya. > > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > > __________________________________ > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the > tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:51 PM PST US From: Tuu2Tango@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HAPI powered Pietenpol for sale on Barnstormers.com This might be worth exploring except for the VW engine. Been there, done that and VERY disappointed in VW based "airplane" engines.. Won't fly in an aircamper very well, that I can promise. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:52 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel prices and gas tanks Yes, Harvey, is more serious that you think, in the short time. Drinking water will be the most important thing first... (hope I can explain with my low english) the smell of dead animals, and swamped water with garbage will make people very sick, then getting food and things to wear, probably one less problem now, is that is not winter, I dont know how cold could get there at night or early in the morning... then some ileness gets serious with many people and medicines get dificult to deliver... All this beguins in a few days and get worse in a daily basis, until everithing gets under control. Another problem is the mud, trucks with help cant get easy over dirt roads (or broken asphalt roads) to little towns. I dont know how rainy will get later, but will lower the speed in pumping the water out... Is important that people close to them volunter to help, One of the first things we do is to trow from our airplanes, when weather permits little parachutes with 1/2 quart bottled water and chocolate bars or cookies and bread, What ever we get donated... Volunteers make the little parachutes... We "waypoint" every family found with the GPS to later send help. Here floods get serious mostly with poor people that live in low (cheap) land and near the rivers. Saludos Gary Gower Local Volunteer in Search and Rescue Do not archive harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca I went to the New Orleans web page yesterday and they have bigger problems than anyone could imagine.There are now sharks and alligators wondering around in those waters.Boy ,that's scary! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel prices and gas tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark I got my commercial CFI and CFII at Jackson. Times like this bring out the best in people and the worst in people. I hope you told the guy === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:12 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream Chuck, My understanting of this whole thing is that the offset of the engine that we put in upon building ( down and to the right or left) is a way to make the plane fly straight during mid range power. During normal climbout the Piet is angled up, but a plane doesn't follow the nose angle, so the prop see's a condition where the prop is taking bigger bites on the right side. So a right rudder is in order. (P- Factor) When you chop the power, the oppisite seems to happen,,you need left rudder. If you ever read , in depth, about the pilots that fly behind the WWI planes where the cylinders spin,,like at Old Rhinebeck,,It's a whole new class of flying. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:18 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05 Agreed...... ----- Original Message ----- From: DONALD COOLEY To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 09/01/05 Sr. Gower, Don't worry about your English...it's better than that we hear from some of our "native sons". I have always enjoyed your contributions and have never had any trouble understanding them. Keep up the good work! Don Cooley, rib jig under way in Fairfield, CA Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:08 PM PST US From: "sbobka@charter.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "sbobka@charter.net" Chuck, If it smacks the left side of the vertical stab, it would push the nose to the left. chris Original Message: ----------------- From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream In a message dated 9/2/2005 5:00:27 PM Central Standard Time, lnelson208@yahoo.com writes: Goin' flyin' again manana with new plugs and new oil filler cap. (I didn't have it on very good, I guess, and it went flying PAST me on my very first flight. It went by on MY LEFT SIDE. Go figure THAT ONE out. Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:54 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream & Other Forces In a message dated 9/2/2005 6:58:15 PM Central Standard Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: Chuck, My understanting of this whole thing is that the offset of the engine that we put in upon building ( down and to the right or left) is a way to make the plane fly straight during mid range power. During normal climbout the Piet is angled up, but a plane doesn't follow the nose angle, so the prop see's a condition where the prop is taking bigger bites on the right side. So a right rudder is in order. (P- Factor) When you chop the power, the oppisite seems to happen,,you need left rudder. If you ever read , in depth, about the pilots that fly behind the WWI planes where the cylinders spin,,like at Old Rhinebeck,,It's a whole new class=20of flying. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spirialing Slipstream Spiraling Slipstream. That's also one of the reasons the plane will yaw to the left, at slow airspeeds. It flows in a helical pattern around the fuselage at slow speeds, and smacks the left side of the vert stab, pushing the nose to the right. At higher speeds the slipstream is more parallel to the fuselage. Chuck G. Soon after I sent this message, I realized my error...a couple of them in fact !! The spiraling slipstream rotates around the fuse in a Counter Clockwise direction, when viewing from the front, looking back...the same direction the prop rotates. This negates the possibility that it was the cause of Larry's oil filler cap going past him on the left side (the Model A oil filler cap is on the right side of the engine) . Maybe it came off, and just bounced of the cabane strut, and bounced to the left side. Let me attempt to explain the forces involved that makes the plane yaw to the left. For a Corvair engine, which spins in the Wrong direction :) the engine and prop rotates in the opposite direction, all these forces cause the plane to yaw to the right. The Brits built the Hawker Sea Fury, which also=20had an engine that spins in the Wrong direction !! It was a rude awakening for guys that were not used to it. Angle of Attack - The angle represented between the Mean Aerodynamic Chord, and the Relative Wind. Spiraling Slipstream - Circulates around the fuselage in a helical pattern, at slower airspeeds. At higher speeds it tends to straighten out, and at speeds when the airframe is overrunning the prop, there is No spiraling slipstream, and the airflow is parallel to the fuselage. At the slower speeds, and high thrust (Takeoff) It might make a full revolution around the fuse, coming up=20in front of the Left Horizontal Stab, and smack the Left side of the Vertical Stab, causing the plane to Yaw to the Left. P - Factor - When the airframe is at a High Angle of Attack, the prop blade that is descending is at a higher angle of attack than the one that is going up. This means the blade that is descending (on the right side) is pulling harder than the one going up (on the left side), causing an un-equal pull on the crankshaft, and causing the airframe to yaw to the Left. At a Zero angle of Attack, there is no P-Factor. Torque - The most powerful of the forces, and it causes the airframe to Roll Left. Imagine if a Giant Hand grabbed the spinning prop, stopping it, causing the rest of the airframe to rotate, or roll, to the Left. The highest thrust is produced when the airframe is sitting still, and at full power...such as doing a Static Run Up. If you could put a pull gage between the prop and the airframe, this is the time period when the highest thrust reading will occur. In cruise flight, the prop is not producing nearly as much thrust, and when the airframe overruns the prop, Thrust and Torque Factor is not even there. Gyroscopic Precession - When a spinning mass on an axle is moved at the axis, this force acts at a Ninety Degree angle to the force that moved it. This force only occurs DURING a change in attitude, such as when on the Take Off roll, during motion of the tail coming up. As soon as the tail is up, and the motion ceases, Gyroscopic Precession is no longer there. It causes the nose to pull to the Left. This is the force that wreaked havoc on those pilots of planes that the cylinders rotated with the prop, like the Gnome Engine. That rotating mass had so much Gyroscopic Precession, that even full rudder could not overcome it. A good example would be if you took a Spoked Wire Wheel from a Pietenpol (or even a bicycle), and held it at arms reach, holding end of the axle with each hand, and the tire almost rubbing on your nose, have someone=20spin the tire, and then tilt the axle. There is a Very Noticeable force that acts at a 90=BA angle to the direction that you tilted the spinning wheel. The faster that mass spins the higher the force, and the more that mass weights, the higher the force. This is also the reason that Crop Dusters always wore out the thrust bearing at the front of the engine, from doing all those hammerhead turn arounds !! These are Dynamic Forces, and change constantly through each phase of flight. That's is one of the reasons why the trim changes. The Engine Mount angled Down, is an effort to reduce the Pendulum Effect of the thrust pulling forward at a location that is below the horizontal Center of Gravity, causing the nose to pitch up. The thrust line is below the high drag of the wing, and it causes a nose up pitch when power is applied, is another way of saying it. The closer the wings Mean Aerodynamic Chord is located to the Thrust Line, the less the need to angle the engine mount down. A low wing airplane has the opposite effect. The Engine Mount angled to the Right, is an effort to counteract all of the forces that cause the airframe to yaw left. Everything in the design of an aircraft is a compromise. That's why when you change something in the original design, you WILL effect other items and flight characteristics. Gives ya a Lot to think about...huh? Chuck Gantzer NX770CG Wow !! All this, trying to figure out why Larry's oil filler cap went flying past him on the Left side...