Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: tape to use on ailerons and elevator (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
2. 04:05 AM - Re: to gap or not to gap (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps (Egan, John)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 (Tim Willis)
5. 06:03 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 (Tim Willis)
6. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - (harvey.rule@bell.ca)
7. 08:21 AM - Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps (Dick Navratil)
8. 10:23 AM - Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps (Phillips, Jack)
9. 10:45 AM - GN-1/Corvair value (DJ Vegh)
Message 1
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Subject: | tape to use on ailerons and elevator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
Actually it's used in the theatre and TV industry in order to tape down
cables.There is no sticky stuff in the middle.Notice that technical term
"sticky stuff"!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Brousseau
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau"
<nfn00979@naples.net>
I went to a forum in Oshkosh and they highly recommended Gaffer's tape
as a
better solution than duct tape, even though it costs a little more.
From
its name I assumed it was used around boats...
Ted
> Time: 08:19:23 AM PST US
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
> From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
>
> I guess your right Jim,I never thought of that.Let me talk to my other
> friends in the theatre business first and if I can't get a roll from
> them then I will try getting it from you.Thanks very much.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Markle
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> As long as you have friends on the Piet list, isn't EVERYTHING in the
> states available to you? :-)
>
> Why can't we get it for you and mail it directly to you?
>
> As usual, I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that
> if we can get it, YOU can get it (from us)!
>
> JM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
>
> This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada
> at this time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
> Zuniga
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Harvey wrote-
>
> >I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for
> >gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best.
>
> Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on
the
>
> KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs.
> This
> is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor,
> so it
> doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part
that
> would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's
> available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example:
> http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | to gap or not to gap |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca
Good advice ;I do believe I will take it.Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to gap or not to gap
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen"
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
In 1963, I flew a friend's Pietenpol which had no gap seals and the
aileron
response was extremely sluggish. In fact, it was necessary to use some
rudder to bring up a low wing if a reasonable response was desired. He
had
not used the standard Pietenpol wingtip, but had simply terminated the
outboard end of the wing at a rib (eg. Mooney). At the time, I thought
this
might have been a factor, but it wasn't.
Later, he used tape as a gap seal and said the aileron response was much
improved but, since I never flew it again, I cannot attest to this.
When I first flew my Pietenpol in1970 there had been a lot of talk about
poor aileron response without gap seals, and I distinctly remembered my
experience with Floyd's airplane. So I used plastic tape from the
beginning,
reasoning that poor aileron response would be one thing less to deal
with
during initial test flights. Later, I experimented by removing the
sealing
tape, a bit at a time, until one aileron was completely unsealed. In
this
condition, the seal-less wing definitely tended to "fly low", and
aileron
response had been noticeably degraded. Needless to say, my Pietenpol has
had
aileron gap seals ever since and its aileron response with them is
excellent.
In 1985, I replaced all the fabric covering (the original Grade A cotton
had
deteriorated over a 15 year period) with polyester aircraft fabric and
used
fabric surface tapes to seal the aileron gaps as well as the
"tailfeather"
gaps. The elevator and rudder gaps were previously not sealed, and this
change made a noticeable improvement in their effectiveness--especially
in
raising the tail earlier during the takeoff run.
Note to Harvey:
************
Your airplane is a Grega GN-1 and I believe the aileron design is
different
from that of the Pietenpol. Nevertheless, I would be inclined to seal
the
gaps with a wide piece of plastic tape, making sure it doesn't restrict
aileron travel in any way.
When test flying a new airplane, it is a good idea to reduce the
potential
for problems or nasty surprises. If you wish to experiment, do it later
on
when everything else is going well. Don't take chances!
[Speaking of "chance", here is a Charles Lindbergh quote: "You can guard
against the high percentage of chance but not against chance itself."]
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
Message 3
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Subject: | Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
Chuck, and others who used the strap hinges,
On my project in progress, I bought 4" strap hinges, and cut off the
extra 1/2" of length, however there is a hole on the bend. Did you fill
the hole in the strap at the bend with weld (on mine, an existing hole
landed on the bend), or did you leave it untouched. Also, do you dato
out the small wood filler strip so the strip passes over the strap so
the fabric has a continuous straight edge to follow, or stop the filler
strip short of the hinge and let the fabric kind of tighten up against
the hinge=3F Thank you in advance.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:10 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
=09
=09
steel hinge pins, and bridged the gap with fabric, before the paint
process. For the empenage, I used Vi Kapler aluminum hinges, and
bridged those gaps with fabric, before paint process. These methods are
light weight, simple to build, add efficiency to the flight, and have
been trouble free for 4 years. If I were to do it again, I would use
the same methods.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view.
I will see what I can do.
Tim
truncated ===
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view.
I will see what I can do.
Tim
truncated ===
Message 6
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09/08/05
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - |
09/08/05
09/08/05
When I went to buy my N3 pup from the seller he insisted that I get time
in a tail dragger.I said I was flying a tail dragger and he asked what
that was.I said a Lazair and he said no I mean a real tail dragger.Like
a Champ.After some training in a Champ, with Samson out of Hawksberry, I
then knew what he ment.The pull you get from the engine revs makes you
get on those rudder peddles right away and if your not, then your headed
for the corn!After the Champ,the N3 Pup was a piece of cake because the
engine power was a lot less.The cause of this action is a thing called
gyroscopic progression from the prop.It's not very prevalent in a
trycicle situation.I thanked the seller very much for his advice and I
will pass this info on whenever needed because it sure helped me.Every
seller should make sure the buyer is aware of this problem.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05
Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point
of view. I will see what I can do.
Tim
truncated
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Allan
I brought up this subject of elevator gap seals after Brodhead. You may
feel that your elevators are responsive at this point, but try install a
temp piece of tape on the underside of the elevator and shoot a few
landings. I was amazed at the difference in the ability to get the tail up
and increased controll in the full stall landing.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com
>
> Allan,
>
> Yes, I am sure you can get it to work but is it needed?
>
> My Pietenpol is very responsive on elevator and rudder with the Vi Kapler
> hinges.
> No gap seals.
>
> I do have the piano hinges on the Ailerons, only because it is easier to
> make.
> Some claim better aileron response but I can not confirm or deny that,
> never flew the other type.
> Good response on Aileron though.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Aileron & Elevator Gaps |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
I want to try this, Dick. My elevators feel responsive, but I do notice
that it is much slower to raise the tail on takeoff than any other plane
I've flown, including my old Cessna 140 which had a pretty heavy tail
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil"
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
Allan
I brought up this subject of elevator gap seals after Brodhead. You may
feel that your elevators are responsive at this point, but try install a
temp piece of tape on the underside of the elevator and shoot a few
landings. I was amazed at the difference in the ability to get the tail
up
and increased controll in the full stall landing.
Dick
Message 9
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Subject: | GN-1/Corvair value |
what might one expect to get if they were selling an airframe/engine project exactly
like mine?
95% complete
WW corvair conversion (with all the goodies and polished aluminum components)
all instrumentation (except radio and xpdr, included Grand Rapids EIS2000 engine
monitor)
Grove wheels/brakes, custom 14 gal aluminum tank, all lasercut fittings, etc
I guess what I'm asking is what is my project worth.....
am I selling? the answer is truthfully maybe. I have been involved in a new
business venture over the past 4 months that looks like it is going to really
take-off but I need some capital to take it to that level.
I would REALLY REALLY REALLY hate to sell but sometimes these things happen.
Right now I'm just in the investigative stage but it may lead to me selling...
it may not. I just dunno now.... It would really just depend on what I
could get for my project.
DJ
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