---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/09/05: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:01 AM - Re: tape to use on ailerons and elevator (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 2. 04:05 AM - Re: to gap or not to gap (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 3. 05:23 AM - Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps (Egan, John) 4. 06:03 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 (Tim Willis) 5. 06:03 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 (Tim Willis) 6. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - (harvey.rule@bell.ca) 7. 08:21 AM - Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps (Dick Navratil) 8. 10:23 AM - Re: Aileron & Elevator Gaps (Phillips, Jack) 9. 10:45 AM - GN-1/Corvair value (DJ Vegh) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca Actually it's used in the theatre and TV industry in order to tape down cables.There is no sticky stuff in the middle.Notice that technical term "sticky stuff"! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Brousseau Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" I went to a forum in Oshkosh and they highly recommended Gaffer's tape as a better solution than duct tape, even though it costs a little more. From its name I assumed it was used around boats... Ted > Time: 08:19:23 AM PST US > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator > From: harvey.rule@bell.ca > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > > I guess your right Jim,I never thought of that.Let me talk to my other > friends in the theatre business first and if I can't get a roll from > them then I will try getting it from you.Thanks very much. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Markle > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle > > > As long as you have friends on the Piet list, isn't EVERYTHING in the > states available to you? :-) > > Why can't we get it for you and mail it directly to you? > > As usual, I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that > if we can get it, YOU can get it (from us)! > > JM > > > -----Original Message----- > From: harvey.rule@bell.ca > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca > > This tape is only sold and delivered in the US.Can't get any in Canada > at this time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar > Zuniga > Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape to use on ailerons and elevator > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > Harvey wrote- > > >I'd like to know what is the best tape to use in these places for > >gap cover? I will order the one you guys say is best. > > Well, I have not used this myself (yet), but one of the guys over on the > > KRNet suggested "gaffers tape" for use on the wing gap seals on KRs. > This > is tape that is used in movie sets to tape wiring down onto the floor, > so it > doesn't have adhesive down the middle part of the tape... the part that > would be over the gap between the wing and the control surface. It's > available in an assortment of colors. Here's one example: > http://www34.pair.com/harrison/thetapeworks.com/progaff.htm > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to gap or not to gap From: harvey.rule@bell.ca --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey.rule@bell.ca Good advice ;I do believe I will take it.Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to gap or not to gap --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" In 1963, I flew a friend's Pietenpol which had no gap seals and the aileron response was extremely sluggish. In fact, it was necessary to use some rudder to bring up a low wing if a reasonable response was desired. He had not used the standard Pietenpol wingtip, but had simply terminated the outboard end of the wing at a rib (eg. Mooney). At the time, I thought this might have been a factor, but it wasn't. Later, he used tape as a gap seal and said the aileron response was much improved but, since I never flew it again, I cannot attest to this. When I first flew my Pietenpol in1970 there had been a lot of talk about poor aileron response without gap seals, and I distinctly remembered my experience with Floyd's airplane. So I used plastic tape from the beginning, reasoning that poor aileron response would be one thing less to deal with during initial test flights. Later, I experimented by removing the sealing tape, a bit at a time, until one aileron was completely unsealed. In this condition, the seal-less wing definitely tended to "fly low", and aileron response had been noticeably degraded. Needless to say, my Pietenpol has had aileron gap seals ever since and its aileron response with them is excellent. In 1985, I replaced all the fabric covering (the original Grade A cotton had deteriorated over a 15 year period) with polyester aircraft fabric and used fabric surface tapes to seal the aileron gaps as well as the "tailfeather" gaps. The elevator and rudder gaps were previously not sealed, and this change made a noticeable improvement in their effectiveness--especially in raising the tail earlier during the takeoff run. Note to Harvey: ************ Your airplane is a Grega GN-1 and I believe the aileron design is different from that of the Pietenpol. Nevertheless, I would be inclined to seal the gaps with a wide piece of plastic tape, making sure it doesn't restrict aileron travel in any way. When test flying a new airplane, it is a good idea to reduce the potential for problems or nasty surprises. If you wish to experiment, do it later on when everything else is going well. Don't take chances! [Speaking of "chance", here is a Charles Lindbergh quote: "You can guard against the high percentage of chance but not against chance itself."] Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:45 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps From: "Egan, John" Chuck, and others who used the strap hinges, On my project in progress, I bought 4" strap hinges, and cut off the extra 1/2" of length, however there is a hole on the bend. Did you fill the hole in the strap at the bend with weld (on mine, an existing hole landed on the bend), or did you leave it untouched. Also, do you dato out the small wood filler strip so the strip passes over the strap so the fabric has a continuous straight edge to follow, or stop the filler strip short of the hinge and let the fabric kind of tighten up against the hinge=3F Thank you in advance. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:10 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps =09 =09 steel hinge pins, and bridged the gap with fabric, before the paint process. For the empenage, I used Vi Kapler aluminum hinges, and bridged those gaps with fabric, before paint process. These methods are light weight, simple to build, add efficiency to the flight, and have been trouble free for 4 years. If I were to do it again, I would use the same methods. Chuck G. NX770CG This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:13 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 Pietenpol-List Digest List Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view. I will see what I can do. Tim truncated === ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:13 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 Pietenpol-List Digest List Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view. I will see what I can do. Tim truncated === ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:24 AM PST US 09/08/05 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 09/08/05 From: harvey.rule@bell.ca When I went to buy my N3 pup from the seller he insisted that I get time in a tail dragger.I said I was flying a tail dragger and he asked what that was.I said a Lazair and he said no I mean a real tail dragger.Like a Champ.After some training in a Champ, with Samson out of Hawksberry, I then knew what he ment.The pull you get from the engine revs makes you get on those rudder peddles right away and if your not, then your headed for the corn!After the Champ,the N3 Pup was a piece of cake because the engine power was a lot less.The cause of this action is a thing called gyroscopic progression from the prop.It's not very prevalent in a trycicle situation.I thanked the seller very much for his advice and I will pass this info on whenever needed because it sure helped me.Every seller should make sure the buyer is aware of this problem. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/08/05 Thanks for the tip on learning on a taildragger. I understand the point of view. I will see what I can do. Tim truncated ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:53 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Allan I brought up this subject of elevator gap seals after Brodhead. You may feel that your elevators are responsive at this point, but try install a temp piece of tape on the underside of the elevator and shoot a few landings. I was amazed at the difference in the ability to get the tail up and increased controll in the full stall landing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com > > Allan, > > Yes, I am sure you can get it to work but is it needed? > > My Pietenpol is very responsive on elevator and rudder with the Vi Kapler > hinges. > No gap seals. > > I do have the piano hinges on the Ailerons, only because it is easier to > make. > Some claim better aileron response but I can not confirm or deny that, > never flew the other type. > Good response on Aileron though. > > Hans > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" I want to try this, Dick. My elevators feel responsive, but I do notice that it is much slower to raise the tail on takeoff than any other plane I've flown, including my old Cessna 140 which had a pretty heavy tail Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron & Elevator Gaps --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Allan I brought up this subject of elevator gap seals after Brodhead. You may feel that your elevators are responsive at this point, but try install a temp piece of tape on the underside of the elevator and shoot a few landings. I was amazed at the difference in the ability to get the tail up and increased controll in the full stall landing. Dick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:39 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1/Corvair value what might one expect to get if they were selling an airframe/engine project exactly like mine? 95% complete WW corvair conversion (with all the goodies and polished aluminum components) all instrumentation (except radio and xpdr, included Grand Rapids EIS2000 engine monitor) Grove wheels/brakes, custom 14 gal aluminum tank, all lasercut fittings, etc I guess what I'm asking is what is my project worth..... am I selling? the answer is truthfully maybe. I have been involved in a new business venture over the past 4 months that looks like it is going to really take-off but I need some capital to take it to that level. I would REALLY REALLY REALLY hate to sell but sometimes these things happen. Right now I'm just in the investigative stage but it may lead to me selling... it may not. I just dunno now.... It would really just depend on what I could get for my project. DJ