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1. 12:47 AM - Re: Re: DF weight, latex paint... Building fun (long) (Gary Gower)
2. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: DF weight, latex paint... Building fun (long) (Mark)
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| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... Building fun (long) |
Hi Mark, I dont want to start and argue about this, but this is my point of view
of homebuilding, and hands on experience, will like you and all to read it.
I love building and flying, I try to do good workmanship, but definitly no "Museum
Restoring" quality, life (active flying) is too short:
Building a homebuilt takes lots of PERSONAL thinking to chose it (how it fies?,
is good for my type of flying?, I like that particular type of aircraft - a Classic,
WW1. WW 2 replica, Glass "Star Wars" canard, Fast racer, etc"- one
seat, two seater (wife will join?) , etc... etc...
There are lots of variants in the final project I chose, MY Project... but I never
think: "I will chose to build this one, so someone will buy it from me later
and I will make a couple of dolars..." Probably never will happen.
We all loose (or our family, if we fly West) when our loved plane needs to be
sold... Use it so much and enjoy it so much so, if given away (almost) for free
there is no hard feelings (will eventualy happen, We all know it, no hard thinking
needed).
Build it as pleased (inside of safe parameters. of course), is an Experimental
and paint it as you like it, never think to paint it " lightly" so the new builder
could easily repaint it if he doesnt like it.... is YOUR Project... Sometimes
the only one you will ever build!
I will tell you something that happened to me: My latex painted airplane, the
same first day that we assembled it in the landing strip, was so popular that
everyone in the club wanted to see it closely.
I agreed, no problem, as a strange project, I was happy (and proud) to have everyone
looking at it, (you all will understand when you build one, if not already
gone though it ;-).
A son of one pilot ( a 9 year old kid that loves airplanes, now near 15) came
from the other side of the Club in his bike to take a look. Parked the bike
near the plane and other kid bumped the bike. The stearing handle made a 3"
x 2" "seven" type hole in the rudder!
A big Ooooh! was the only thing I heard from the guys that saw this, Then a silence...
Everyone looking at me!!!
The kid was so ashamed that start crying, the other kid that pushed the bike,
had his eyes as big as head lamps... I just calmed them down and asked them
if they will like to help me repair it. They agreed with a little smile...
We repair it IN the Spot this easy:
I handled the solvents (minors cant use them here).
With half thinner an Acetone in a old piece of towel, I wiped the latex paint from
the Dacron with several scrubs, until it was clear of all paint, cleaned
one circle about 5" D around the damaged area. One kid carefuly meassured and
cut the patch, I applied the contact cement and the patch in place. we (3)
pushed the airplane outside my hangar to the Sun, 30 minutes later, the other
kid painted the area with a foam brush two hands (15 minutes drying in betwen)
of the blue latex paint left over, directly from the can. About 1 :00 hr
later the airplane was taxi tested (long story), 3 hours later the damaged
place was dificult to see,,,
6 years later, still dificult to find. That easy!
If someone gets my plane(s) when I die, I am sure that I will not care in that
moment what they do with them :-)
This is aprox the covering costs of that airplane: 20 yrd of dacron 3.50 Each
(? no AS&S catalog handy now, but close) $ 70.00
(some Dacron left over)
3 galllons of paint (blue and yellow) lots of left over $100.00
Contact cement, AS&S sewing string,
all other gadgets used etc. maybe $ 30.00
Total of covering job (no labor of course) about $ 200.00 (plus shipping
and import)
Too much fun to charge for the labor :-)
In 10 years or more, if the paint fades... I will prefer to re- cover it for
$ 250.00 (inflation?) in stead of striping the paint and repaint it...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Enjoy building, enjoy flying it...
Do not archive.
Mark <aerialphotos@dp.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark
Gary Gower wrote:
> Shhhh, The expensive covernig company could go bankrupt... :-) :-)
>
> We all know: "If not expensive, is no good" is very common, mainly
> in aviation.
>
> Now serious, I am very happy with the results (almost 6 years) and
> will do it again in any future dacron covered project I build, with a
> clear urethane light hand over it, to give "gloss and touch" nobody
> will notice is not the original thing.
>
> How much is the life of the covering (the cheap ASpruce 1.8
> dacron), in a hangared ultralight flown about 50 to 80 hrs a year?
> Is out of the hangar almost all day, at least 40 of the 52 saturdays
> of the year...
> Just curious...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
Something to think about though guys when the paint does start to go,
and sooner or later they all do, using latex may cause problems getting
it off and then insuring the fabric is still good underneath after you
use a stripper that likely was not designed for a fabric in the first
place. With the stripper that gets the other paints off get the latex
off as well? Does it react differently with latex paint vs what it was
designed to remove? If so does it still do the job equally as well?
Can you be sure that chemical reactions that were never designed to be
on that particular material will react in the same manner? How will
latex stripper that you know will get latex paint off effect the life of
the fabric? Are you taking 80 year fabric and making it less than 5
year fabric?
Some of the most frustrated workers I have ever seen in aircraft paint
shops happen to draw the local hanger queen that was bought by someone
that whated to fix it up. They find out it had either auto paint or
house paint on it and the price and frustration level goes way up. I
once saw a Champ that was painted with a roller of all things. Sad
thing is that for a while it was an improvement over what it had. Im
all for saving money but Id talk to a paint shop before I went cheap on
the paint. You do not want to be penny wise and pound foolish.
Mark
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: DF weight, latex paint... Building fun (long) |
SpamAssassin (score=-2.261, required 3, AWL -0.26, BAYES_00 -2.60,
J_CHICKENPOX_21 0.60)
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark <aerialphotos@dp.net>
No arguement Gary from me. What works for you works for you and
regulation of experimentals would be a big mistake. If you plan on
recovering every time the painting none of the points I made might not
be as important to you. Just something to think about. Notice no where
in my post did I say don't do it. I did say to ask questions. I did
say it might not be the right move in many situations. I didn't say you
couldn't do it.
I have seen Laxtex put on certified airplanes when the owner thought
that no one would ever figure out what they had done. A cover that
could have lasted a lot longer had to be removed and replaced, which was
indeed a very expensive mistake. The result would have been exactly the
same on an experiemental.
One thing everyone should do about most decisions is to think them
through from as many different angles as possible. From your post you
considered your options, weighed the pros and cons and made your
choice. I hope they work out for you. I hope others do so as well.
Mark
Gary Gower wrote:
> Hi Mark, I dont want to start and argue about this, but this is my
> point of view of homebuilding, and hands on experience, will like you
> and all to read it.
> I love building and flying, I try to do good workmanship, but
> definitly no "Museum Restoring" quality, life (active flying) is too
> short:
>
> Building a homebuilt takes lots of PERSONAL thinking to chose it (how
> it fies?, is good for my type of flying?, I like that particular type
> of aircraft - a Classic, WW1. WW 2 replica, Glass "Star Wars" canard,
> Fast racer, etc"- one seat, two seater (wife will join?) , etc...
> etc...
>
> There are lots of variants in the final project I chose, MY
> Project... but I never think: "I will chose to build this one, so
> someone will buy it from me later and I will make a couple of
> dolars..." Probably never will happen.
>
> We all loose (or our family, if we fly West) when our loved plane
> needs to be sold... Use it so much and enjoy it so much so, if given
> away (almost) for free there is no hard feelings (will eventualy
> happen, We all know it, no hard thinking needed).
>
> Build it as pleased (inside of safe parameters. of course), is an
> Experimental and paint it as you like it, never think to paint it "
> lightly" so the new builder could easily repaint it if he doesnt like
> it.... is YOUR Project... Sometimes the only one you will ever build!
> I will tell you something that happened to me: My latex painted
> airplane, the same first day that we assembled it in the landing
> strip, was so popular that everyone in the club wanted to see it
> closely.
> I agreed, no problem, as a strange project, I was happy (and proud)
> to have everyone looking at it, (you all will understand when you
> build one, if not already gone though it ;-).
>
> A son of one pilot ( a 9 year old kid that loves airplanes, now near
> 15) came from the other side of the Club in his bike to take a
> look. Parked the bike near the plane and other kid bumped the bike.
> The stearing handle made a 3" x 2" "seven" type hole in the rudder!
> A big Ooooh! was the only thing I heard from the guys that saw this,
> Then a silence... Everyone looking at me!!!
> The kid was so ashamed that start crying, the other kid that pushed
> the bike, had his eyes as big as head lamps... I just calmed them
> down and asked them if they will like to help me repair it. They
> agreed with a little smile... We repair it IN the Spot this easy:
>
> I handled the solvents (minors cant use them here).
>
> With half thinner an Acetone in a old piece of towel, I wiped the
> latex paint from the Dacron with several scrubs, until it was clear
> of all paint, cleaned one circle about 5" D around the damaged area.
> One kid carefuly meassured and cut the patch, I applied the contact
> cement and the patch in place. we (3) pushed the airplane outside my
> hangar to the Sun, 30 minutes later, the other kid painted the area
> with a foam brush two hands (15 minutes drying in betwen) of the
> blue latex paint left over, directly from the can. About 1 :00 hr
> later the airplane was taxi tested (long story), 3 hours later the
> damaged place was dificult to see,,,
> 6 years later, still dificult to find. That easy!
>
> If someone gets my plane(s) when I die, I am sure that I will not
> care in that moment what they do with them :-)
>
> This is aprox the covering costs of that airplane: 20 yrd of dacron
> 3.50 Each (? no AS&S catalog handy now, but
> close) $ 70.00 (some Dacron left over)
> 3 galllons of paint (blue and yellow) lots of left over $100.00
> Contact cement, AS&S sewing string,
> all other gadgets used etc. maybe $ 30.00
> Total of covering job (no labor of course) about
> $ 200.00 (plus shipping and import)
>
> Too much fun to charge for the labor :-)
>
> In 10 years or more, if the paint fades... I will prefer to re- cover
> it for $ 250.00 (inflation?) in stead of striping the paint and
> repaint it...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
> Enjoy building, enjoy flying it...
> Do not archive.
>
> */Mark <aerialphotos@dp.net>/* wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark
>
> Gary Gower wrote:
>
> > Shhhh, The expensive covernig company could go bankrupt... :-) :-)
> >
> > We all know: "If not expensive, is no good" is very common, mainly
> > in aviation.
> >
> > Now serious, I am very happy with the results (almost 6 years) and
> > will do it again in any future dacron covered project I build,
> with a
> > clear urethane light hand over it, to give "gloss and touch" nobody
> > will notice is not the original thing.
> >
> > How much is the life of the covering (the cheap ASpruce 1.8
> > dacron), in a hangared ultralight flown about 50 to 80 hrs a year?
> > Is out of the hangar almost all day, at least 40 of the 52
> saturdays
> > of the year...
> > Just curious...
> >
> > Saludos
> > Gary Gower.
>
> Something to think about though guys when the paint does start to go,
> and sooner or later they all do, using latex may cause problems
> getting
> it off and then insuring the fabric is still good underneath after
> you
> use a stripper that likely was not designed for a fabric in the first
> place. With the stripper that gets the other paints off get the latex
> off as well? Does it react differently with latex paint vs what it
> was
> designed to remove? If so does it still do the job equally as well?
> Can you be sure that chemical reactions that were never designed
> to be
> on that particular material will react in the same manner? How will
> latex stripper that you know will get latex paint off effect the
> life of
> the fabric? Are you taking 80 year fabric and making it less than 5
> year fabric?
>
> Some of the most frustrated workers I have ever seen in aircraft
> paint
> shops happen to draw the local hanger queen that was bought by s
> omeone
> that whated to fix it up. They find out it had either auto paint or
> house paint on it and the price and frustration level goes way up. I
> once saw a Champ that was painted with a roller of all things. Sad
> thing is that for a while it was an improvement over what it had. Im
> all for saving money but Id talk to a paint shop before I went
> cheap on
> the paint. You do not want to be penny wise and pound foolish.
>
> Mark
>
> __________________________________________________
>
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