---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/28/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Landing Gear Alignment (Lou Wither) 2. 05:58 AM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com) 3. 06:15 AM - Re: Aileron (hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (Lou Wither) 5. 11:38 AM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (Carl Vought) 6. 12:19 PM - Re: Landing Gear Alignment (Jeff Boatright) 7. 03:25 PM - Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead (Douwe Blumberg) 8. 03:43 PM - Vertical Stab (Nick Harris) 9. 04:05 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Jim Markle) 10. 04:47 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Nick Harris) 11. 05:15 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Steve Eldredge) 12. 05:32 PM - Re: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead (Larry Nelson) 13. 05:34 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Nick Harris) 14. 07:10 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (Graham Hansen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:53 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment Guys, I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle wheels, but had problems with the hubs breaking. They are insufficient to take the side load imposed on them when landing. Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and axles from a 182. These should be rugged enough. The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The right side seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear spreads. I have done some alignment work and have finally gotten the right gear and left gear to be dimesionally the same. I used a straight edge against the tire and measured to the fuselage when the plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt conduit held against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage. The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. This is without touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening the left wheel had some effect on the right side. Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane flies fine, just having this one last problem. Thanks Lou ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment From: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com 27, 2005) at 09/28/2005 08:58:21 AM Lou, I had the same problem with my first landing gear. The problem is in geometry of hinge points at the fuselage, the front attachments are slightly wider than the rear. This can result in a toe-in unloaded, straight track half loaded and toe-out at full load. This all gets worse if bungees are weak, I found the bungees don't do much the first inch of compression I replaced the bungees with compression springs, see attached drawing. And align wheels with slight toe-in. Toe-out will cause tracking problems on runway at high speed. To much toe-in will cause tire wear and drag when rolling. You will still have a slight spreading when pushing it backwards but mostly because the plane is lightly loaded (your not in it) Hope this helps. Hans (See attached file: comp spring.pdf) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron From: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com 27, 2005) at 09/28/2005 09:15:10 AM --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com Santiago, I build my first aileron Rib with a 1/4 inch gap, used 1/4 ply as spacer. But this pace quickly disappears when fabric is applied, this area sees at least three layers or more due to folding and overlaps of the fabric. My gap is now less than 1/16, it works, but if I had known I would have started with 1/2 inch or perhaps 3/8. Regards Hans ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:18 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment Hans, Thanks for the info. I have been wondering about the bungee arrangement. I really don't seem to be getting mine tight enough and there is the question as to whether they are equally tight. I like the spring arrangement. This could be an over the winter project. Thanks again. Lou ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:15 AM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment Please tell us what kind of motorcycle wheels you had trouble with....It could save ssomeone a bunch of heartache...Carl Vought ----- Original Message ----- From: Lou Wither To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment Guys, I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle wheels, but had problems with the hubs breaking. They are insufficient to take the side load imposed on them when landing. Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and axles from a 182. These should be rugged enough. The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The right side seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear spreads. I have done some alignment work and have finally gotten the right gear and left gear to be dimesionally the same. I used a straight edge against the tire and measured to the fuselage when the plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt conduit held against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage. The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. This is without touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening the left wheel had some effect on the right side. Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane flies fine, just having this one last problem. Thanks Lou ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:05 PM PST US b$b82ca9d0$c3afd618@DJJYD981> From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment I agree. We have cycle wheels and no problems after a few hundred flight hours. The previous owner claimed that they were Honda 350 wheels, but they're not. They appear to be a hybrid dirt-street wheel from the 60s or 70s. The tires are 3.00x17 or 3.5x17. At 1:37 PM -0500 9/28/05, Carl Vought wrote: >Please tell us what kind of motorcycle wheels you had trouble >with....It could save ssomeone a bunch of heartache...Carl Vought > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Lou Wither >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Alignment > >Guys, > >I have a Piet with the bungee type gear. Originally had motorcycle >wheels, but had problems with the hubs breaking. They are >insufficient to take the side load imposed on them when landing. > >Replaced the motorcycle wheels with a set of Goodyear wheels and >axles from a 182. These should be rugged enough. > >The problem is, I am having problems with the gear alignment. The >right side seems to be OK. When I back the plane up the left gear >spreads. I have done some alignment work and have finally gotten >the right gear and left gear to be dimesionally the same. I used a >straight edge against the tire and measured to the fuselage when the >plane was on jacks. I used a 10' section of 1/2" emt conduit held >against the tire and measured to the rear of the fuselage. > >The problem is, now both wheels are spreading when taxing forward. >This is without touching the right wheel. Apparently, straightening >the left wheel had some effect on the right side. > >Can anyone give me an idea on how they did their alignment. Plane >flies fine, just having this one last problem. > >Thanks >Lou -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:52 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead Since I'm putting an "A" in my Piet, I'm always wanting to know of problems with other guys engines. I also have found over the years that there is a lot of wrong info about events and problems. So, for any other Ford guys out there, Ken Perkins DID have a mag problem at Brodhead, but it was NOT the coupling. He says it was a small piece of metal stuck on the magnet which wouldn't let it enter the field. He has no idea where the metal came from, but once removed, everything is fine. Thought you'd wanna know, I did. Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:38 PM PST US From: "Nick Harris" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Question I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem? Thanks Nick Harris ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:06 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue.... Jim Markle Plano, TX 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Question I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem? Thanks Nick Harris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:05 PM PST US From: "Nick Harris" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join into the tail post. I have it just the opposite. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue.... Jim Markle Plano, TX 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Question I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem? Thanks Nick Harris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:57 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab From: "Steve Eldredge" It looks like you have enough length in the vertical to fix the problem, No? I think I would fix it since one of the bolts will pass nearly through the joint attaching it to the horizontal. Stevee ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Harris Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join into the tail post. I have it just the opposite. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971 &PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue.... Jim Markle Plano, TX 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Question I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem? Thanks Nick Harris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:12 PM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ken Perkins "A" trouble at Brodhead --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Thanks for that info. I fly an A powered Pietenpol (Howard Hendersons), and was also interested in this issue. The only issue I have had, I was previously warned about, and it is magneto related, too. I asked Joe Santana what the small diameter soft copper tube was for, stowed loose alongside the pilots leg. It is to spray WD 40 into the mag when the impulse isn't clicking. Works everytime and starts right up. Now that fall is here, I am going to be trying to get mo' flyin' in. --- Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Since I'm putting an "A" in my Piet, I'm always > wanting to know of problems with other guys engines. > I also have found over the years that there is a > lot of wrong info about events and problems. So, > for any other Ford guys out there, Ken Perkins DID > have a mag problem at Brodhead, but it was NOT the > coupling. He says it was a small piece of metal > stuck on the magnet which wouldn't let it enter the > field. He has no idea where the metal came from, > but once removed, everything is fine. > > Thought you'd wanna know, I did. > > Douwe Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Cessna 195 N9883A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:53 PM PST US From: "Nick Harris" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab I did when this pic was taken. Since then I cut it down closer to finish length. The bolt was one of my concerns also, but the front bolt bolt holes go through the joint also. Maybe it would be best to just make a new one. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab It looks like you have enough length in the vertical to fix the problem, No? I think I would fix it since one of the bolts will pass nearly through the joint attaching it to the horizontal. Stevee From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Harris Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:46 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Sorry for the bad description. Here is a link, I hope it works. Look at the lower left hand of the part. According to the plans the lower beam should join into the tail post. I have it just the opposite. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID971&PlaneID500&FNameNick&LNameHarris&PlaneNameGN-1%20Aircamper Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Uhh, not sure what you mean....maybe a picture would help. I for one have only an idea what you might be describing here...but anyway, if it's a junction of two pieces that will end up with gussets on both sides of the junction (as many on the vertical stab do), it probably won't be an issue.... Jim Markle Plano, TX 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Question I am building the vertical stab, and made a mistake. After fitting all my pieces in the jig I found that I had made the junction of the bottom beam and the tail post the opposit way that it should be. Is this a problem? Thanks Nick Harris ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:40 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vertical Stab Nick, If you use birch plywood gussets at this joint and make the fittings slightly longer so that the bolt holes don't line up with the joint line, it should be OK as is. Birch plywood, aircraft quality, is very strong and stiff---and the primary strength of the joint is in the gussets, not the butt joint. Just keep the bolt hole(s) away from the joint line. Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)