Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Re: Aileron Cable Friction (slowbilder@comcast.net)
2. 05:53 AM - Shock absorbers (Richard Carden)
3. 05:56 AM - wire wheels (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 06:12 AM - Re: wire wheels (Phillips, Jack)
5. 06:13 AM - do I need brakes (Douwe Blumberg)
6. 06:18 AM - Corvair- new update (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 06:25 AM - Re: do I need brakes (Phillips, Jack)
8. 06:50 AM - Do I need brakes? (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
9. 07:55 AM - Re: do I need brakes (Carl Vought)
10. 08:04 AM - wire wheel hub width (Michael D Cuy)
11. 08:16 AM - keeping your weight down (Michael D Cuy)
12. 03:56 PM - Yet one more spoked wheel weight... (Jim Markle)
13. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Brodhead (Rick Holland)
14. 04:19 PM - Re: Do I need brakes? (Gary Gower)
15. 04:21 PM - discouraged corvair builder - help! (tmbrant1@netzero.com)
16. 05:56 PM - Re: Wheels, seat belts (nhulin)
17. 05:58 PM - Charlie Rubeck has died. (Jim Markle)
18. 07:44 PM - Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara (Ted Brousseau)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cable Friction |
Thanks Chuck. The pulley bushing lubrication was on my list as the next item for
improvement. I have my fairleades screwed to 1/4" plywood pads as you do,
and have had occasion to remove and replace some of them. It can be a little
challenging in a wing that is already covered.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
In a message dated 10/4/2005 10:00:19 PM Central Standard Time, slowbilder@comcast.net
writes:
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and found
that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I took
a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the hard
maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the friction
in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running through
wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
Bob,
It seems you've pinpointed the location where most of your friction is. My guess
is that you don't have the hole in the hard maple fairleads big enough for
the cables to pass through freely. For my fairleads, I glued a piece of 1/4"
plywood to the spars with T88, and screwed the hardwood fairleads to the 1/4"
plywood, to eliminate violating the spars with any screws. I made saw cuts in
the hardwood for the cable to pass through, which were at least 1 1/2 times the
diameter of the cable...plenty of room. Two screws for each fairlead, which
makes them removable. My aileron control is a very free, and smooth movements,
with NO slop, or play. I have Never lubricated the fairleads...it's a good
thought, though. Another area which you probably already checked, is the
pulleys. Do they have ball bearings, or brass bushings ? Are they lubricated
well ? Do they work freely without the cable in them ? Is the cable fouling
on the guides that keep the cables in the groove of
the pulley ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Thanks Chuck. The pulley bushing lubrication was on my list as the next item for
improvement. I have my fairleades screwed to 1/4" plywood pads as you do,and
have had occasion to remove and replace some of them. It can be a little challenging
in a wing thatis already covered.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2722" name=GENERATOR>
In a message dated 10/4/2005 10:00:19 PM Central Standard Time, slowbilder@comcast.net
writes:
I recently connected the aileron control cables on my Pietenpol project, and found
that there was a lot of friction in the aileron control system. Today I took
a piece of candle wax and waxed the cables where they run through the hard
maple fairleads in the wing. This resulted in a dramatic reduction in the friction
in the system.
Does anyone have any comments on this or other lubricants for cables running through
wood fairleads?
Bob Humbert
N491RH
Battle Creek, Michigan
Bob,
It seems you've pinpointed the location where most of your friction is. My guess
is that you don't have the hole in the hard maple fairleads big enough for the
cables to pass through freely. For my fairleads, I glued a piece of 1/4" plywood
to the spars with T88, and screwed the hardwood fairleads to the 1/4" plywood,
to eliminate violating the spars with any screws. I made saw cuts in the
hardwood for the cable to pass through, which were at least 1 1/2 times the
diameter of the cable...plenty of room. Two screws for each fairlead, which makes
them removable. My aileron control is a very free, and smooth movements, with
NO slop, or play.I have Never lubricated the fairleads...it's a good thought,
though. Another area which you probably already checked, is the pulleys. Do
they have ball bearings, or brass bushings ? Are they lubricated well ? Do they
work freely without the cable in them ? 
; Is the cable fouling on the guides that keep the cables in the groove of the
pulley ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden <flywrite@erols.com>
I'm trying to decide what method to use to absorb landing gear shock.
Hans van der Voort sent me a beautiful drawing of a spring-loaded gear
leg, but that requires making two legs. I've been wondering about an
axle-located absorber composed of a series of rubber donuts, a la
Mooney, but more of them and not nearly so big around. I'd appreciate
input. Dick Carden
Message 3
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Hey Fred,
To answer your query regarding weight of wire wheels. I'm using big rims (21")
for real clinchers, but no brakes. My wheels with rubber weigh 18 lbs. I weighed
another set up at Brodhead (no brakes either) and they were about the same,
though they had smaller rims. So you're going to be a bit heavier with tires,
but maybe not out of the ballpark... until you start adding stuff.
We've all gone around about the side load issue, and it seems that as long as your
hub is wide enough, you'll be allright. If you use standard narrow hubs,
it'll increase the possibility of a problem.
your solution sounds good and strong, I'd really figure the weight of everything
before you go with it (rims, bearings, brakes, tire, etc) because these planes
need to be kept light.
Douwe
Message 4
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Just to add fuel to the "Wheel Side Loading" fire, when I had my forced
landing and groundloop last fall, about the only thing that DIDN'T break
were my 6" wide custom machined hubs for my wire wheels. Wheels still
roll true - no wobble. Jenny-style undercarriage also came through
without a scratch. Very strong.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
Hey Fred,
To answer your query regarding weight of wire wheels. I'm using big
rims (21") for real clinchers, but no brakes. My wheels with rubber
weigh 18 lbs. I weighed another set up at Brodhead (no brakes either)
and they were about the same, though they had smaller rims. So you're
going to be a bit heavier with tires, but maybe not out of the
ballpark... until you start adding stuff.
We've all gone around about the side load issue, and it seems that as
long as your hub is wide enough, you'll be allright. If you use
standard narrow hubs, it'll increase the possibility of a problem.
your solution sounds good and strong, I'd really figure the weight of
everything before you go with it (rims, bearings, brakes, tire, etc)
because these planes need to be kept light.
Douwe
Message 5
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| Subject: | do I need brakes |
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I wanted
to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or would it work
with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need brakes. I'm
just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
Message 6
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| Subject: | Corvair- new update |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
William Wynne has added some info to his firewall forward update (wiring
tips, oil pans, and other things) at the top of
http://flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | do I need brakes |
You need brakes if you have a tailwheel on pavement. When I was getting
mine ready for the first flight my brakes did not work very well and it
was very scary trying to maneuver it on the ramp with only tailwheel
steering. With those big wheels it rolls very well and doesn't slow
down, even with the engine idling. Unless your airport has a very wide
ramp with nothing on it (certainly nothing expensive to hit), you will
want brakes, preferably differential braking.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: do I need brakes
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I
wanted to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or
would it work with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need
brakes. I'm just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
Message 8
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ETAtAhUAhaGeOmeskkZgCu0Z7N8SeKfMg6sCFGrFTo3QGiHOVtRPB0hl2lefvJ5B
| Subject: | Do I need brakes? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Hi Douwe: The airport I will most likely be flying out of has grass
next to the paved runways, so no brakes and skid probably would have
been no problem, but the occasional Lear Jet and expensive spam cans
made me decide to use brakes and steerable tail wheel. A minor taxi
accident would have eliminated any thought of retirement sooner than
about 75 years from now. Leon S. Keeping it lite in Ks.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: do I need brakes |
What sold me on brakes was a tale posted on the web (by whome?) where someone
was blown backwards towards another airplane by the propwash of an airplane in
front of him. Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: do I need brakes
Hi guys!
I've built my Piet without brakes and with a skid. My question is, if I wanted
to be able to operate off paved surfaces, do I need brakes, or would it work
with just a tailwheel.
I'm using big motorcycle wheels so I'm thinking i'm going to need brakes. I'm
just trying like crazy to keep the weight down.
thanks
Douwe
Message 10
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| Subject: | wire wheel hub width |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Guys-- I have never heard of any Pietenpol wire wheel folding over or
failing during a ground loop or side
loads--be it stock motorcycle wheels and hubs or home made.
What I HAVE heard of is Craig Aho's Piet (before it burned up in a hangar
fire) in Washington state wheel
collapsing and it was due to lack of proper tensioning of his spokes. He
told me this directly over there phone.
The first landing was fine, but the second--one wheel collapsed on his test
pilot. The other wheel showed the problem.
Mike C.
Message 11
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| Subject: | keeping your weight down |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Douwe--- when we spoke at Brodhead it was very apparent to me that you are
trying to keep your plane
as light as possible with your Ford engine. You have several things going
in your favor: primarily that you
are not a heavy guy at all, and secondly this list as a great resource.
If I were to build another Pietenpol but with a Ford engine, I would
incorporate brakes and a tailwheel for
safety and versatility reasons. There will be fly-in's you might want to
take your plane to that don't have
grass and you'll be much more comfortable with the controlability factor
having a steerable tailwheel and
differential braking as Jack P. mentioned.
You can find some really reasonable ATV brakes on line these days---be they
cable or hydraulically actuated.
You don't need powerful brakes on a Piet at all since you only use them for
run up and slower taxi speeds.
If you need them for situations other than those----you have screwed
up:) (been there)
The way to keep your weight down in my book is (if airspace allows)
1) don't use heavy epoxies to seal your wood. Let the varnish cure for two
mos. or so before fabric covering
and prior to fabric, spray or brush a coat or two of Dupont 222S sanding
sealer. It goes on like water and dried
in about 1/2 hour.
2) use the 1.7 oz fabric everywhere.
3) don't use more screws or bigger screws that you need on your cowling or
cockpit cover areas.
4) don't use any heavier than .024" alum. for your cowling areas and keep
the brackets very simple and light-- see Bingelis for great ideas here.
5) don't have front cockpit instruments
6) build the short fuse if you can
7) no electrical system, no started, no generator, no battery, no air
conditioner, no heated seats, no strobe lights no rear window defroster.
8) no upholstery--if you need some cushion for your rear, make it light
and just for the seat bottom.
9) use aluminum rims if using wire wheels, not steel.
10) Fill wings with helium filled ping pong balls:))
Mike C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Yet one more spoked wheel weight... |
Ken Perkins' built 6" wide hubs, 21"x 1.85 aluminum rims, steel spokes/nipples,
300S21 (3" wide) tires (26" outside height inflated), 1.125" X 8" steel brake
disc, the tire is filled with helium to reduce weight....(ok, just kidding...)
19.5# (according to a digital scale that has NOT been kind to me so the tire probably
ACTUALLY weighs less. :-)
JIm in Plano
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 8:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels
Hey Fred,
To answer your query regarding weight of wire wheels. I'm using big rims (21")
for real clinchers, but no brakes. My wheels with rubber weigh 18 lbs. I
weighed another set up at Brodhead (no brakes either) and they were about the
same, though they had smaller rims. So you're going to be a bit heavier with
tires, but maybe not out of the ballpark... until you start adding stuff.
We've all gone around about the side load issue, and it seems that as long as
your hub is wide enough, you'll be allright. If you use standard narrow hubs,
it'll increase the possibility of a problem.
your solution sounds good and strong, I'd really figure the weight of everything
before you go with it (rims, bearings, brakes, tire, etc) because these planes
need to be kept light.
Douwe
Message 13
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Glad to hear that you guys made it all the way across the country without
getting attacked by wild indians or something. Was great meeting and talking
with you at Broadhead.
Rick Holland
On 9/22/05, clem <clam@snap.net.nz> wrote:
>
> The two New Zealanders - Clem & Dave - drove across USA in a rental car,
> 5550 miles. We met some wonderful people during our trip . A special thanks
> to Carl and Ann Lekven for their offers of hospitality. We met amazing
> people at Brodhead. It was great to meet the people I have followed on this
> site over the years. I loved Lowell Frank's radial engined Piet.
> Regards
> Clem Boyd
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Do I need brakes? |
Remembert that when flying around, to other airports, Murphy will shurely make
you land in a paved only airport... Just only one incident with an expensive
"something" and the fun is over.
Flying some Xcountry is part of the fun...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Hi Douwe: The airport I will most likely be flying out of has grass
next to the paved runways, so no brakes and skid probably would have
been no problem, but the occasional Lear Jet and expensive spam cans
made me decide to use brakes and steerable tail wheel. A minor taxi
accident would have eliminated any thought of retirement sooner than
about 75 years from now. Leon S. Keeping it lite in Ks.
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 15
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| Subject: | discouraged corvair builder - help! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.com>
Any corvair builders out there who may be able to offer some advice or encouragement...
I'm really having trouble with my heads. Reading the WW manual basically I was
expecting to be able to find a pair of heads with good guides, seats, etc, that
would just need cleaning, new springs and a valve job.. Well I've bought (2)
sets of heads to find that for one reason or another, they need extensive work.
The best pair needs guides, all new exhaust valves, several new seats, possibly
fly cutting of the cylinder head mating surfaces, plus the valve job and
cleaning. I've got about $240 wrapped up in them so far and still have about
$400-$500 left..
Now the machine shop told me tonight when I brought my new pistons in that the
rods are very egg shaped and they may not be able to get them back to tolerance..
Plus, maybe it's no big deal, but I had them install ARP rod bolts - they
installed them prior to glass beading the rods so the bolts are glass beaded
too.. Maybe not a big deal but it seems that they would have done that after
the glass beading..
The pistons I ordered from Clark's have a slightly different part number than the
ones suggested in the WW manual L2206F. It looks like they have a coating
on the skirt where as the L2206 does not. Does this make a difference? I haven't
been able to reach WW as I'm sure they're super busy in the post Oshkosh
orders...
Any help or encouragement would be appreciated.
Tom B.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wheels, seat belts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Wed Oct 05 at 4:47 PM, TBYH@aol.com wrote:
<snip> I'd also be interested in ideas on where to get good seat
belts/shoulder harness at reasonable cost. I think someone
mentioned a source of stock car or drag racing harnesses at
a very attractive price...
<snip> Regards, Fred B. La Crosse, WI
Fred,
See http://www.ch601.org/tools/harness/crowharness-rev1.3.pdf
for details of the harness I'm using in my Zodiac. It might be suitable for
the Pietenpol. Talk to Fred Crow (contact details and web site are at the
top of page three in the PDF) about any customization you might need. He has
a copy of the Zodiac installation manual and isn't worried about people
using the harness in homebuilt aircraft. Please note that I'm not flying
with this harness yet but I first saw it a few years ago in the ultralight
area at Sun'n'Fun.
..neil
Zodiac 601XL
Message 17
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| Subject: | Charlie Rubeck has died. |
From the Brodhead Website (http://www.eaa431.org/):
Charlie Rubek, who for many years spent innumerable hours volunteering each year
at the Pietenpol Fly-In, has died. More details to come.
This was one VERY nice fellow.....
Many Piets are flying around with ribs he built....
I, for one, will miss his smile.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
Oscar,
God Bless you. I can't imagine how you must feel. When you are ready, I
will be looking forward to flying with you on the Piet "invasion" of
Guadalajara. In the meantime, enjoy that vacation as best you can and dream
about the "Invasion".
Ted
PS I hope the TSA doesn't intercept this message....
> Time: 08:47:00 AM PST US
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar, the second home
> > Keep talking! There are still several of us with dreams of flying down
to
> Mexico in Pietenpols someday, and it's dreams that keep things going. In
my
> case, I had no sooner done the final color coat on the repaired vertical
> stabilizer of 41CC (picture down past Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray, at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html#update ) than our
> middle son died rather suddenly on Sept. 3. So my airplane stuff came to
a
> screeching halt on Labor Day weekend and now my wife and I are going on
> vacation for a while, so I will not be able to get back to the Piet for a
> couple of weeks. It is taking some time to get through this.
>
> But keep talking about a Piet "invasion" of Guadalajara and it will be
good
> therapy for me ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
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