---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/17/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:52 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 (Tim Willis) 2. 08:52 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 (Tim Willis) 3. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 (John Hofmann) 4. 01:01 PM - Elmer's Ultimate Glue? (Ben Williams) 5. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 6. 02:45 PM - Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? (walt evans) 7. 03:14 PM - Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? (Rcaprd@aol.com) 8. 03:18 PM - Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? (Jim Ash) 9. 03:32 PM - Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? (Ben Williams) 10. 09:31 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 (Ken Anderson) 11. 10:14 PM - Re: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? (Galen Hutcheson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:31 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 Pietenpol-List Digest List Some misc. items: 1. The Piet on ebay sold for $7100. It looked pretty rough, but likely well made, and most importantly, it was flyable. 2. There is another Piet for sale on ebay-- actually maybe listed as an "Air Camper GN-1"-- without engine, in Maine. It was $4K last time I looked. It is gorgeous. It was built by a local EAA club, and it shows a great deal of finish. The lister (who is not the seller) claims it weighs 620 lbs. without the engine. If that is right, isn't thtan 200 or 220 pounds overweight? 3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is gone now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas for a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer field just last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still there, but the field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the city of Creve Couer or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a park. He believed he was playing baseball at the new fields where the runways were only last year. You should check it out. If this is entirely factual, that's really sad, because it was close in towards the metro center, and was home for many interesting and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve Couer" is French for "broken heart." Tim --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:31 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 Pietenpol-List Digest List Some misc. items: 1. The Piet on ebay sold for $7100. It looked pretty rough, but likely well made, and most importantly, it was flyable. 2. There is another Piet for sale on ebay-- actually maybe listed as an "Air Camper GN-1"-- without engine, in Maine. It was $4K last time I looked. It is gorgeous. It was built by a local EAA club, and it shows a great deal of finish. The lister (who is not the seller) claims it weighs 620 lbs. without the engine. If that is right, isn't thtan 200 or 220 pounds overweight? 3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is gone now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas for a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer field just last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still there, but the field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the city of Creve Couer or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a park. He believed he was playing baseball at the new fields where the runways were only last year. You should check it out. If this is entirely factual, that's really sad, because it was close in towards the metro center, and was home for many interesting and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve Couer" is French for "broken heart." Tim --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 From: John Hofmann --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann I think Dauster Field (1H0) is fine. The American Waco Club held a flyin there in June. Air and Space magazine was there and did a nice writeup of the field in a recent issue. -john- >> >> 3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is >> gone now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas >> for a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer >> field just last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still >> there, but the field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the >> city of Creve Couer or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a >> park. He believed he was playing baseball at the new fields where the >> runways were only last year. You should check it out. If this is entirely >> factual, that's really sad, because it was close in towards the metro center, >> and was home for many interesting and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths >> and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve Couer" is French for "broken heart." ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:56 PM PST US From: Ben Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Williams Gentlemen, First time writing to this list. I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue. I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood will be covered with West System epoxy. http://www.westsystem.com/ Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue? Thanks, Ben Williams ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:01 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 Creve Coeur Airport in st.louis, county is still there. It is privately owned and will not be turned into a park although there is a Creve Coeur park nearby. I drive by there about every other week. The hangers are all there and the grass and paved runways also. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Willis To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List Digest List Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 Some misc. items: 1. The Piet on ebay sold for $7100. It looked pretty rough, but likely well made, and most importantly, it was flyable. 2. There is another Piet for sale on ebay-- actually maybe listed as an "Air Camper GN-1"-- without engine, in Maine. It was $4K last time I looked. It is gorgeous. It was built by a local EAA club, and it shows a great deal of finish. The lister (who is not the seller) claims it weighs 620 lbs. without the engine. If that is right, isn't thtan 200 or 220 pounds overweight? 3. Reference the Creve Couer Airport in St. Louis County, MO-- I think it is gone now. I lived in St. Louis County for 30 years, but have been in Texas for a decade. Our older son who now lives in CA, was at the Creve Couer field just last month. According to him, most of the hangars are still there, but the field did not seem to be operational. Apparently either the city of Creve Couer or the St. Louis County governent has turned it into a park. He believed he was playing baseball at the new fields where the runways were only last year. You should check it out. If this is entirely factual, that's really sad, because it was close in towards the metro center, and was home for many interesting and some great aircraft like Tiger Moths and homebuilts. Fittingly, "Creve Couer" is French for "broken heart." Tim ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:56 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Ben, Glues have been discussed for a long time. T-88 epoxy has been accepted/used for a long time, and I kind of swear by it. You never have to wonder if the glue is going to fail. Back when I started building my last project, about 6 years ago a quart kit (pint of A, pint of B) cost about $25.00/$30.00. And I only used 1 1/2 kits to build the whole plane. Don't know if this is your first project. But when you're flying over the big mountain pass with no place to set down, it's nice to know about all the things you did the right way. My Mentor (thru 2 projects, and personal AP for Leo Laudenschlager) once said to me and I won't forget..."When building airplanes, there's no such thing as ,,""That's good enough"" walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Williams" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Williams > > Gentlemen, > > First time writing to this list. > > I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue. > > I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood > will be covered with West System epoxy. > > http://www.westsystem.com/ > > Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue? > > Thanks, > > Ben Williams > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:00 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? In a message dated 10/17/2005 3:03:02 PM Central Standard Time, benw@pdi.com writes: Gentlemen, First time writing to this list. I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue. I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood will be covered with West System epoxy. http://www.westsystem.com/ Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue? Thanks, Ben Williams Ben, Personally, I use what is well proven, hence I use T88 exclusively. I would NOT trust my life to an experiment with Elmer's Ultimate Polyurethane glue. Nor could I sell a project with that glue, with a clear mind. I say use the ribs you built as an experience to learn how to build your actual ribs, using T88. You could also use several of them for destructive tests, or for a wall hanging. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG Shot some video with the camera mounted on the belly, looking forward between the gear legs on Friday and Saturday. Shot some Air to Air video on Sunday !! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:11 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Does anybody look at glue samples when they go over your airplane any more? Once upon a time, having a glue sample available for every batch you mixed up for wooden joints was a big deal. I'd heard this part of the inspection has fallen out of favor, but is that really true? If not, what's your inspector going to say when you show up with some kind of glue they're not used to seeing? Jim Ash ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:40 PM PST US From: Ben Williams Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Williams Chuck, Walt, Sound advice. I'll use T88. Thanks, Ben Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/17/2005 3:03:02 PM Central Standard Time, > benw@pdi.com writes: > > Gentlemen, > > First time writing to this list. > > I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue. > > I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After assembly, all wood > will be covered with West System epoxy. > > http://www.westsystem.com/ > > Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use a different glue? > > Thanks, > > Ben Williams > > Ben, > Personally, I use what is well proven, hence I use T88 exclusively. > I would NOT trust my life to an experiment with Elmer's Ultimate > Polyurethane glue. Nor could I sell a project with that glue, with a > clear mind. > I say use the ribs you built as an experience to learn how to build > your actual ribs, using T88. You could also use several of them for > destructive tests, or for a wall hanging. > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > Shot some video with the camera mounted on the belly, looking forward > between the gear legs on Friday and Saturday. Shot some Air to Air > video on Sunday !! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:04 PM PST US From: "Ken Anderson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 There was another small airport (don't remember the name) about 5 miles or so from Creve Coeur that has been closed for quite some time at lease 10 yrs do not archive Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/15/05 Creve Coeur Airport in st.louis, county is still there. It is privately owned and will not be turned into a park although there is a Creve Coeur park nearby. I drive by there about every other week. The hangers are all there and the grass and paved runways also. Dennis ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:06 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's Ultimate Glue? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Not that I am suggesting that anyone use the polyurethane glue for important structural members, but a friend of mine and I are conducting tests using this glue. He glued two pieces of wood together as per label directions, attached a 50# weight to the wood and hung the entire test sample on a fence. This sample has been hanging for nearly one year, through all kinds of weather and is showing no signs of failure. The wood is showing signs of deteriation, but the glue joint is intact. Take this for what it is worth, but I feel that down the road this glue will be useful in some applications of aircraft building. I used T-88 for all my structural applications (including ribs) but I did use the polyurethane for some things such as trim, ect. I personally don't think that T-88 is the ONLY glue that is safe to build airplanes with. As I recall, the early Piets (as well as almost all wooden antique aircraft) were built with casien glue (derived from milk protien). I think that logic and proper testing would be a good way to resolve this issue. We are experimenters, are we not? Each builder must make his own decisions and form his own conclusions from his work. If we never allowed experimentation away from the norm, the accepted methods, then new methods would never be developed. Perhaps these thoughts are the ramblings of an old scientist, but they have served me well in the past. Doc (H) --- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/17/2005 3:03:02 PM Central > Standard Time, benw@pdi.com > writes: > Gentlemen, > > First time writing to this list. > > I'm building wing ribs using Elmer's Ultimate > polyurethane glue. > > I'm using Douglas Fir and aircraft plywood. After > assembly, all wood > will be covered with West System epoxy. > > http://www.westsystem.com/ > > Will this work or should I trash these ribs and use > a different glue? > > Thanks, > > Ben Williams > Ben, > Personally, I use what is well proven, hence I > use T88 exclusively. I > would NOT trust my life to an experiment with > Elmer's Ultimate Polyurethane > glue. Nor could I sell a project with that glue, > with a clear mind. > I say use the ribs you built as an experience to > learn how to build your > actual ribs, using T88. You could also use several > of them for destructive > tests, or for a wall hanging. > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > Shot some video with the camera mounted on the > belly, looking forward between > the gear legs on Friday and Saturday. Shot some Air > to Air video on Sunday !! > __________________________________ Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/