Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - LOC... (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05 (tbyh@aol.com)
3. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05 (Phillips, Jack)
4. 06:03 AM - Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage (Jim Lathrop)
5. 06:21 AM - Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage (Phillips, Jack)
6. 06:45 AM - Piet Community Member (Joe Krzes)
7. 07:25 AM - Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage (Carl Vought)
8. 07:27 AM - Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage (Jim Lathrop)
9. 08:26 AM - Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage (Phillips, Jack)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message
acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone
that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the
years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable
as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical
magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's
LOC? Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a
Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit
card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that
its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't
forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05 |
Question: I'm building my Jenny-style landing gear and am wondering what size bolts
most folks use for the metal attachment fittings on the fuselage lower longerons
and for the gear struts. Are you using 3/16" (AN3) or 1/4" (AN4) bolts?
Or...? Many thanks!
Fred B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-11-09.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-11-09.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 11/09/05: 3
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 PM - No Mail (Richard Gillespie)
2. 02:20 PM - Re: No Mail (w b evans)
3. 06:10 PM - Re: No Mail (Richard Gillespie)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 01:49:13 PM PST US
From: "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick@peoplepc.co m
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 02:20:54 PM PST US
From: "w b evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
I got you. and rec'd some yesterday.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Gillespie
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick@peoplepc.co m
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:10:39 PM PST US
From: "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Thanks Walt.
Dick Gillespie
----- Original Message -----
From: w b evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
I got you. and rec'd some yesterday.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Gillespie
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No Mail
Haven't rec'd any mail lately. What happened?
Richard Gillespie
margdick@peoplepc.co m
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05 |
Hi Fred,
I used AN4's (1/4"), with MS21042 locknuts. Held up well to the
groundloop last year (the gear was about the only thing that didn't
receive some damage).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tbyh@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/09/05
Question: I'm building my Jenny-style landing gear and am wondering what
size bolts most folks use for the metal attachment fittings on the
fuselage lower longerons and for the gear struts. Are you using 3/16"
(AN3) or 1/4" (AN4) bolts? Or...? Many thanks!
Fred B.
Message 4
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Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started
building my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting for
a shipment of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about the
fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working with
metal more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a Bearhawk which
has a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the steel tube will be
slower due to the need to design the fittings which which aren't spelled out
in the plans for the steel tube version, but I am willing to accept that.
When talking to owners/pilots at Brodhead this year everyone said to go with
the long fuselage, it gives you more room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs from
the 1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both fuselages
I see that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear seat to the
cross brace defining the back of the front seat is 33" on the steel tube vs.
31" on the long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29" for the steel vs.
28.75for the long wood. Overall from firewall to the back seat cross
brace on the
steel tube is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of leg
room for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot with the
steel tube version. The real difference between the two is from the rear
seat to the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8" longer than the steel
tube version. I do not have my pilots license yet, and this is where my
question comes in. Would not moving the tail feathers back nearly 10" inches
make them much more responsive than on the short version, or is this really
not a noticeable change? It seems to me that with a plane as light as the
Pietenpol, that extra leverage would be significant. Has anyone flown both
the long and short version (wood or steel) and have any input on the
differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
Message 5
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Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
Jim,
Good questions. I have flown both my long fuselage Piet and Mike Cuy's
short version (both in wood - have not flown a steel Piet). What I can
tell you is there is virtually no difference in feel or sensitivity of
the controls between the long and short versions. Both have more than
adequate control response. Nor does it seem to affect ground handling
much. I can also tell you that adding 10" to the tail makes the whole
plane heavier, and adds to an already tail-heavy situation. If you have
adequate legroom in the shorter fuselage, I would recommend building
that.
Of course, if you have long legs (as I do), a short light airplane is
not going to make you very happy if you cannot be comfortable sitting in
it. I can tell you from personal experience, if you EVER take a trip in
your Pietenpol, you will be sitting in it for a long, long time and
you'd better make it as comfortable as possible. If possible, try to
sit in both versions and try them on for size. If at all possible, sit
in them long enough to get a feel for what a long trip will feel like (I
found on my trip to Brodhead this year that any leg over an hour and a
half got to be pretty uncomfortable).
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Lathrop
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started
building my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting
for a shipment of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about
the fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working
with metal more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a
Bearhawk which has a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the
steel tube will be slower due to the need to design the fittings which
which aren't spelled out in the plans for the steel tube version, but I
am willing to accept that. When talking to owners/pilots at Brodhead
this year everyone said to go with the long fuselage, it gives you more
room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs
from the 1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both
fuselages I see that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear
seat to the cross brace defining the back of the front seat is 33" on
the steel tube vs. 31" on the long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29"
for the steel vs. 28.75 for the long wood. Overall from firewall to the
back seat cross brace on the steel tube is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long
wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of
leg room for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot
with the steel tube version. The real difference between the two is
from the rear seat to the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8"
longer than the steel tube version. I do not have my pilots license
yet, and this is where my question comes in. Would not moving the tail
feathers back nearly 10" inches make them much more responsive than on
the short version, or is this really not a noticeable change? It seems
to me that with a plane as light as the Pietenpol, that extra leverage
would be significant. Has anyone flown both the long and short version
(wood or steel) and have any input on the differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
Message 6
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Subject: | Piet Community Member |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes@hotmail.com>
Sterling,
Sorry to hear about your Dad. Sounds like quite a guy.
Former WASP instructor passes away
Sweet Water Reporter Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:16 AM PST
A former WASP instructor passed away Tuesday. Funeral services for Roy A.
Brooks, 86, will be held at 10 a.m. Saturday, Nov. 12, in the Fort Stockton
Funeral Home under the direction of Steve Hampton Jr. with Dr. Larry Krueger
of Carlsbad, N.M. officiating.
<http://sweetwaterreporter.com/articles/2005/11/09/news/news7.txt>
do not archive
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
Hi Jack, et al....Bill Beerman is from Raleigh and was building a Piet. Do you
know him? I'm wondering how he's progressing.....Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
Jim,
Good questions. I have flown both my long fuselage Piet and Mike Cuy's short
version (both in wood - have not flown a steel Piet). What I can tell you is
there is virtually no difference in feel or sensitivity of the controls between
the long and short versions. Both have more than adequate control response.
Nor does it seem to affect ground handling much. I can also tell you that
adding 10" to the tail makes the whole plane heavier, and adds to an already tail-heavy
situation. If you have adequate legroom in the shorter fuselage, I
would recommend building that.
Of course, if you have long legs (as I do), a short light airplane is not going
to make you very happy if you cannot be comfortable sitting in it. I can tell
you from personal experience, if you EVER take a trip in your Pietenpol, you
will be sitting in it for a long, long time and you'd better make it as comfortable
as possible. If possible, try to sit in both versions and try them on
for size. If at all possible, sit in them long enough to get a feel for what
a long trip will feel like (I found on my trip to Brodhead this year that any
leg over an hour and a half got to be pretty uncomfortable).
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lathrop
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:03 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
All,
I have been lurking on this group for about a year now and have started building
my Piet. I have the wing ribs completed, and while I'm waiting for a shipment
of spruce for the tail feathers, I got to thinking about the fuselage.
I would like to go with the steel tube version because I like working with metal
more than wood and my next project after the Piet is a Bearhawk which has
a steel tube fuselage. I know that building the steel tube will be slower due
to the need to design the fittings which which aren't spelled out in the plans
for the steel tube version, but I am willing to accept that. When talking to
owners/pilots at Brodhead this year everyone said to go with the long fuselage,
it gives you more room.
I have made the following observations about the two fuselage designs from the
1934 Improved Air Camper plans. Looking at the plans for both fuselages I see
that from the cross brace defining the back of the rear seat to the cross brace
defining the back of the front seat is 33" on the steel tube vs. 31" on the
long wood. Similarly the front pit is 29" for the steel vs. 28.75 for the
long wood. Overall from firewall to the back seat cross brace on the steel tube
is 74.5" and 76.25" for the long wood.
From all of this, I gather that space wise, I am sacrificing 1.75" of leg room
for the passenger and gaining a couple of inches for the pilot with the steel
tube version. The real difference between the two is from the rear seat to
the tail post. The long wood version is 9 5/8" longer than the steel tube version.
I do not have my pilots license yet, and this is where my question comes
in. Would not moving the tail feathers back nearly 10" inches make them much
more responsive than on the short version, or is this really not a noticeable
change? It seems to me that with a plane as light as the Pietenpol, that extra
leverage would be significant. Has anyone flown both the long and short version
(wood or steel) and have any input on the differences?
Thanks,
Jim Lathrop
Columbus, OH
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
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Subject: | Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage |
I've heard of him - as I recall he owns a Stinson. But I've never met
him.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Vought
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fulelage vs Long wood fuselage
Hi Jack, et al....Bill Beerman is from Raleigh and was building a Piet.
Do you know him? I'm wondering how he's progressing.....Carl Vought
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