Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale (Hans Vander Voort)
2. 07:00 AM - Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale (Sterling)
3. 07:26 AM - Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale (Michael D Cuy)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: raising the seat, extending the vertical stab, and Corvair College #9 (Rick Holland)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Rick Holland)
6. 07:53 AM - raising the seat, etc. (Dick Navratil)
7. 12:58 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 (Tim Willis)
8. 12:58 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 (Tim Willis)
9. 02:54 PM - Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale (Richard Gillespie)
10. 07:09 PM - air filter service (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 (Ronnie Wagner)
12. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 (harvey rule)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale |
27, 2005) at 11/15/2005 03:05:58 PM
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Sterling,
Rib stitching should go through both top and bottom.
Technically the bottom should not need any (high pressure area) but the Top
must have stitching as it generates 75% of the lift with a low pressure
area.
Inspect this plane carefully, open the inspection covers on the wing, you
should see stitching wire going across the ribs (from top to bottom)
securing both top fabric and bottom fabric.
I would walk away from it, if it doesn't have the top fabric stitched.
The cracking paint is also a major concern, looks like the top paint is not
flexible enough,
Happens a lot with enamel paints over stits.
The Corvair engine feels different because it is a 6 banger and smaller
stroke engine
The best thing to do is to check compression on the cylinders.
I get 150 to 140 PSI of compression on my new (40 hours) Corvair, using the
standard Automotive compression tester
Good luck.
Hans
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Hans... (and all)
I'm not going back to look at this Aircamper a second time, too many things
are suspect and I'll keep looking for a clean and well-built Aircamper to
buy that has a track-record. If anyone knows of a decent Aircamper for sale,
please keep me in mind.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Powered Piet for sale
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
>
> Sterling,
>
> Rib stitching should go through both top and bottom.
>
> Technically the bottom should not need any (high pressure area) but the
Top
> must have stitching as it generates 75% of the lift with a low pressure
> area.
> Inspect this plane carefully, open the inspection covers on the wing, you
> should see stitching wire going across the ribs (from top to bottom)
> securing both top fabric and bottom fabric.
>
> I would walk away from it, if it doesn't have the top fabric stitched.
>
> The cracking paint is also a major concern, looks like the top paint is
not
> flexible enough,
> Happens a lot with enamel paints over stits.
>
> The Corvair engine feels different because it is a 6 banger and smaller
> stroke engine
> The best thing to do is to check compression on the cylinders.
> I get 150 to 140 PSI of compression on my new (40 hours) Corvair, using
the
> standard Automotive compression tester
>
> Good luck.
>
> Hans
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale |
aval.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Sterling-- GOOD choice buddy. Skip that piece of crap and wait for a
decent one to come around.
It always seems like when you are not looking for a decent Piet, they show
up....but when you are,
the bottom shelf ones show up. Give it another few mos....something will
pop up.
I'll keep an ear to the tracks for you too.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: raising the seat, extending the vertical stab, |
and Corvair College #9
Good info Mike, does Pat Green have an email address that you know of? Would
like to ask him some increasing wingspan questions.
Thanks
Rick H
On 11/14/05, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I saw Pat Green's 1977 Piet this weekend at Corvair College. It has a few
> mods to it, including a 34 foot wing and an extended vertical stabilizer.
> Pat told me the reason for the higher vertical tail was after a couple of
> incidents where he held the tail up as it slowed on the landing roll.
> There
> was no wind, yet it suddenly shot off to the right of the runway and into
> the weeds. No damage was done, but he tried it again and this time it did
> the same thing, except that it went off to the left. after a while they
> realized that the problem was that the elevator was capable of holding the
> tail (and the tailwheel) up down to a lower speed than the point where the
> rudder lost effectiveness. Another time, a pilot took it up for spin
> testing. He started at 4000 feet, got a good spin going (was hard to get
> into the spin) and then couldn't get out of it until he got down to 800
> feet, he got it out by modulating the power. Pat went up and had little
> trouble with spins. The first pilot was a really tall guy, while Pat was a
> bit shorter. He believed that the spin problem was due in large part with
> a
> tall pilot blanking out the vertical stabilizer, which would also be a
> factor in the landing experience (though the quick solution to the landing
> thing was simply to not hold the tail up too long.) He installed a taller
> stabilizer of the same basic shape, I think he said it was 10 inches
> taller.
> and now he says that it's very authoritative. I didn't see his arrival to
> William Wynne's place but there was about a 20-knot direct crosswind over
> some trees, and he said that it was no problem at all.
>
> So it sounds like raising the seat might even affect control by blanking
> out
> the rudder in some situations.
>
> After looking at Pat's plane, I think I really like the idea of making a
> taller rudder. It was the kind of thing where sub-consciously, you saw the
> plane and felt like something was different, but it didn't really stand
> out
> until he said something. I think it might even look nice to re-shape the
> upper part of the stab and get a little more of a classic rounded look (I
> can hear the gasps of the purists from here... hehehe) If you were to
> raise
> the stab and make the top into a nice curve, starting roughly at the rib
> where the brace wires attach, would there be any reason to think you'd
> create any bad flight characteristics in doing so? I'll be building a
> widened, long-fuse Piet, I'm 6' 1" with long legs so I might end up
> blanking
> the rudder no matter where the seat is!
>
> This is the second Piet that I've seen with added wing length. Pat said
> that
> he visited BHP, and was told that it didn't need a longer wing. Pat felt
> that he did need it, so he could clear the 50 foot pine trees we have here
> instead of the 6-foot Minnesota corn stalks.) Apparently it adds some
> stability and makes the aileron response a bit slower. The plane has a
> hand-start BHP Corvair conversion with a blower on top, hadn't seen one of
> those before and it looks a bit different than the Wynne conversions. I
> don't know if Pat and his starter/partner in crime Jack are on the list
> here, if they are they could correct anything I remembered wrong. Super
> nice
> guys.
>
> Corvair College was great, as usual. Lots of fun, saw neat planes and met
> even neater people. I'm sure they'll have a report posted soon. There was
> 1
> Pietenpol, 1 Cleanex (basically a Corvair Sonex), 1 flying CH-601XL and
> one
> being built, one KR-2S, one KR-2, a Mustang I, a Wagabond, and a turbo
> Corvair Stits Sky Coupe. Also several Corvair cars and a van were there.
> Cool stuff.
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
> Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
> http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: raising the seat NOT |
How did you make a seat like that Chuck? With fiberglass? Sounds like a
great idea.
Rick H.
On 11/14/05, Rcaprd@aol.com <Rcaprd@aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/14/2005 5:47:06 PM Central Standard Time,
> jboatri@emory.edu writes:
>
> I agree with Mike. If anything, I would lower the seat (assuming it
> doesn't change the engineering). I sit too high in mine, and I'm only
> 5'6". You can always add another temperfoam pad if the seat is too
> low, but you sure can't go the other direction if you raise it!
>
> Ditto for me.
> I wish my seat was a tad lower, so I could have more padding. Speaking of
> padding, I made a seat that conforms to my personal Butt Print, as well as
> extending the pad forward a little past the forward edge of the seat to help
> support under my legs. I found a HUGE difference in comfort, compared to
> what I had before. I'm going to re-do the seat to extend even further under
> my legs, in order to spread out my weight.
> Chuck G.
>
--
Rick Holland
Message 6
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Subject: | raising the seat, etc. |
Just to add to the comments already. I was being hit in the forehead by the wind
blast, so I re-cut the windshield 2 in higher. It made a huge difference.
Also much quieter.
I had a very sore butt and back from my 4 hour trip to Brodhead. While there someone
suggested rolling up my self inflating sleeping bag pad as a cushion.
Thank you to whoever that was. The air control is right at my shoulder and I'm
riding on air. These are available at outddor stores for about $80.
Dick N.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Guys,
Thanks for all the very good input-- both on this group board and in your private
emails. You have given me several good reasons not to raise the seat and/or
move the console cowlings forward.
Back into the cockpit again to see if I can enlarge my shin/foot holes by making
the passenger seatback "V" support a modified "Y." There may never be a front
passenger or seat again, either. I see a future building in cardboard, ducktape,
and plywood on the garage floor.
Your experiences are what I was after-- I'd rather have the negatives with gritty
details than butcher the plane and not have it work. It's too big to paint
pink and make a lawn ornament.
Tim
---------------------------------
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 |
Pietenpol-List Digest List <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Guys,
Thanks for all the very good input-- both on this group board and in your private
emails. You have given me several good reasons not to raise the seat and/or
move the console cowlings forward.
Back into the cockpit again to see if I can enlarge my shin/foot holes by making
the passenger seatback "V" support a modified "Y." There may never be a front
passenger or seat again, either. I see a future building in cardboard, ducktape,
and plywood on the garage floor.
Your experiences are what I was after-- I'd rather have the negatives with gritty
details than butcher the plane and not have it work. It's too big to paint
pink and make a lawn ornament.
Tim
---------------------------------
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Powered Piet for sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Gillespie" <MARGDICK@peoplepc.com>
Sterling,
If you're not in a big rush and it's not too far away. I'll have a Piet
ready to go as soon as it's annual is completed in the next week or two.
DickG.
Ft. Myers, Fl.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Powered Piet for sale
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
>
> Hans... (and all)
>
> I'm not going back to look at this Aircamper a second time, too many
> things
> are suspect and I'll keep looking for a clean and well-built Aircamper to
> buy that has a track-record. If anyone knows of a decent Aircamper for
> sale,
> please keep me in mind.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sterling Brooks
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Powered Piet for sale
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
> <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>>
>>
>> Sterling,
>>
>> Rib stitching should go through both top and bottom.
>>
>> Technically the bottom should not need any (high pressure area) but the
> Top
>> must have stitching as it generates 75% of the lift with a low pressure
>> area.
>> Inspect this plane carefully, open the inspection covers on the wing, you
>> should see stitching wire going across the ribs (from top to bottom)
>> securing both top fabric and bottom fabric.
>>
>> I would walk away from it, if it doesn't have the top fabric stitched.
>>
>> The cracking paint is also a major concern, looks like the top paint is
> not
>> flexible enough,
>> Happens a lot with enamel paints over stits.
>>
>> The Corvair engine feels different because it is a 6 banger and smaller
>> stroke engine
>> The best thing to do is to check compression on the cylinders.
>> I get 150 to 140 PSI of compression on my new (40 hours) Corvair, using
> the
>> standard Automotive compression tester
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | air filter service |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
I have a new air filter for the A-65 with Stromberg NAS carb. The carb air
box is pretty much the stock Cessna 120/140 type with AirMaze filter. I
don't have it in front of me, but I believe the filter says to soak it in
engine preservative oil and let the excess drip off, before installing it.
Any service tips on this type of cleanable permanent air filter? I'm sure
it needs some sort of oil to entrap dust and particles, but engine
preservative oil?
Low 'n' slow since 1934... that's 71 years!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 |
Tim,
I lowered the back bottom of my seat 2 in. and the backrest is leaning back 2 in,
at the top. The front of the seat bottom is at the height called for in the
plans. I'm 6'1" and wear 36 length in jeans. so mostly legs and feet. But this
arrangement feels super. I love the way it feels sitting in it but I have not
flown it yet. The seat cocked up seems to help the leg room but lowered may
hurt your visibility, I wanted to sit pretty low in my plane. I don't have any
clearance problems with the foot holes but I raised them I think according to
Mike Cuy's video. about 2 inches.
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Willis
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List Digest List
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05
Guys,
Thanks for all the very good input-- both on this group board and in your private
emails. You have given me several good reasons not to raise the seat and/or
move the console cowlings forward.
Back into the cockpit again to see if I can enlarge my shin/foot holes by making
the passenger seatback "V" support a modified "Y." There may never be a front
passenger or seat again, either. I see a future building in cardboard, ducktape,
and plywood on the garage floor.
Your experiences are what I was after-- I'd rather have the negatives with gritty
details than butcher the plane and not have it work. It's too big to paint
pink and make a lawn ornament.
Tim
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
There is a lip on the floor at the heel section which causes my heel to
get stuck there at times.I think I may just rivet another piece of
aluninum here in order to stop this from happening.Anybody else
experience this aspect of the heel getting caught here?Or am I just
having a bad day?
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