---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/16/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Highlight Two (Matt Dralle) 2. 01:18 AM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Rcaprd@aol.com) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Mark) 4. 07:52 AM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Rick Holland) 5. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 (Rick Holland) 6. 08:00 AM - MEK proof sanding sealer? (Rick Holland) 7. 10:53 AM - Re: raising the seat NOT (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 8. 12:30 PM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Carl Vought) 9. 03:00 PM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Rcaprd@aol.com) 10. 05:17 PM - Re: raising the seat NOT (Mark) 11. 05:30 PM - External stringers (Mike Green) 12. 08:24 PM - Re: MEK proof sanding sealer? (Dick Navratil) 13. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 (Catdesign) 14. 09:56 PM - Re: raising the seat, extending the vertical stab, and Corvair College #9 (Mike Whaley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:55 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Highlight Two --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no commercial advertising on any of the Lists to support their operation, and it is solely YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS that keeps these Lists up and running. Please take a second to make your Contribution today at the secure website: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Below is a highlight of another one of the awesome Free Gifts available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. 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The second is a Mechanic's Toolbox offering many of the most useful items typically found in printed Mechanic's Handbooks and a few other handy items not found anywhere else. Works with Windows 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP. To receive your copy, visit the List Contribution Web site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution * This gift is provided by Andy Gold of The Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:27 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT In a message dated 11/15/2005 9:43:10 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: How did you make a seat like that Chuck? With fiberglass? Sounds like a great idea. It wasn't too difficult. I made it with various densities of foam...no fiberglass. In the center, where my tailbone sits, the dense foam is less than 1/2" thick, and the outer edge of the seat (dished out & shaped kinda like a toilet seat), it's about 2" thick, but I never feel like I'm sitting on a hard wood seat. I used open cell foam, and cloth cover, to maintain some ventilation. I sloped the dense foam up and forward about 2" past the forward edge of the wood seat. I covered it with a denim cloth. The key to the comfort is the form fit, and extending it forward to spread out my weight, and ventilation. Leather or Naugahyde does NOT allow ventilation. I also made accommodations on the sides, for items like a 4 way screwdriver, Leatherman Tool, ELT, small fire extinguisher, fuel dip stick, fuel sump tool, small LED flashlight, small digital camera, note pad with a pen on a string, and under the seat to one side, I stow my Pietenpol ball cap. Most of this stuff is held in place with Velcro. There is actually plenty of room on the seat to put all that stuff, if you carefully plan it all out. I'm going to make another seat, with the idea of spreading out my weight even farther forward, but NOT thicker under my tail bone. Oh yeah, I can also carry a bomb load of FOUR rolls of Toilet Paper (two on each side) !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:36 AM PST US From: Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT BAYES_00 -2.60) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/15/2005 9:43:10 AM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > How did you make a seat like that Chuck? With fiberglass? Sounds > like a great idea. > Many racing series use form fitted seats. Driving at speeds of 200mph comfort isn't a luxary. Its a necessity for concentration and I would submit that if you are flying concentration is every bit as important even in a Piet. It is ususally the higher dollar series, but the basic princple is to have the driver sit in something that then works as a mold. They use a full body seat so they get a mold of not only the backside but the back as well. Then use that as a basis for construction, and I really do not see why you couldn't do the same thing. The experimenters out there could easily come up with some ideas of materials that should work and I would think fiberglass should do well in the actual construction of the seats. Race car builders usually use some form of carbon fiber, but they expect to build it to help protect the driver from a 200mph crash. You also might be able to order one from a local auto racing store or performance auto shop, but don't expect those to be cheap. One down side to form fitting is that if you ever let a buddy fly your Piet, his backside will not match yours. Same goes if you ever sell it, but you probably could build a way into it to switch out the seat to something generic (and less confortable). Racers build a different seat for each driver and just switch the seat when you switch the driver. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:17 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT Thanks Chuck, being out in farm country I figured you may have gone out to the North 40 and got an old tractor seat like they put on top of bar stools sometimes. They are actually much more comfortable than a flat slab of wood. RH On 11/16/05, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/15/2005 9:43:10 AM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > How did you make a seat like that Chuck? With fiberglass? Sounds like a > great idea. > > It wasn't too difficult. I made it with various densities of foam...no > fiberglass. In the center, where my tailbone sits, the dense foam is less > than 1/2" thick, and the outer edge of the seat (dished out & shaped kinda > like a toilet seat), it's about 2" thick, but I never feel like I'm sitting > on a hard wood seat. I used open cell foam, and cloth cover, to maintain > some ventilation. I sloped the dense foam up and forward about 2" past the > forward edge of the wood seat. I covered it with a denim cloth. The key to > the comfort is the form fit, and extending it forward to spread out my > weight, and ventilation. Leather or Naugahyde does NOT allow ventilation. I > also made accommodations on the sides, for items like a 4 way screwdriver, > Leatherman Tool, ELT, small fire extinguisher, fuel dip stick, fuel sump > tool, small LED flashlight, small digital camera, note pad with a pen on a > string, and under the seat to one side, I stow my Pietenpol ball cap. Most > of this stuff is held in place with Velcro. There is actually plenty of room > on the seat to put all that stuff, if you carefully plan it all out. I'm > going to make another seat, with the idea of spreading out my weight even > farther forward, but NOT thicker under my tail bone. > Oh yeah, I can also carry a bomb load of FOUR rolls of Toilet Paper (two > on each side) !! > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:15 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 I did about the same with mine after building a mock fuselage and moving things around a bit. Figure there is no such thing as a too low seat since you can add all the seat cushion you want later (and be more comfortable at the same time). RH On 11/15/05, Ronnie Wagner wrote: > > Tim, > I lowered the back bottom of my seat 2 in. and the backrest is leaning > back 2 in, at the top. The front of the seat bottom is at the height called > for in the plans. I'm 6'1" and wear 36 length in jeans. so mostly legs and > feet. But this arrangement feels super. I love the way it feels sitting in > it but I have not flown it yet. The seat cocked up seems to help the leg > room but lowered may hurt your visibility, I wanted to sit pretty low in my > plane. I don't have any clearance problems with the foot holes but I raised > them I think according to Mike Cuy's video. about 2 inches. > Ronnie > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tim Willis > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List Digest List > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:58 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 > > > Guys, > Thanks for all the very good input-- both on this group board and in your > private emails. You have given me several good reasons not to raise the seat > and/or move the console cowlings forward. > Back into the cockpit again to see if I can enlarge my shin/foot holes by > making the passenger seatback "V" support a modified "Y." There may never be > a front passenger or seat again, either. I see a future building in > cardboard, ducktape, and plywood on the garage floor. > Your experiences are what I was after-- I'd rather have the negatives > with gritty details than butcher the plane and not have it work. It's too > big to paint pink and make a lawn ornament. > Tim > > ------------------------------ > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:41 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: MEK proof sanding sealer? Mike Cuy has recommended using a Dupont 222 Sanding Sealer to coat any varnished wood prior to covering to prevent the PolyTac from dissolving the varnish. Problem is I can't find the stuff anywhere including the Internet. Does anyone know where this stuff can be found or of a substitute? Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:22 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Mark: I have seen seats made using that expandable foam. Same thing as the spray stuff but you can buy it in quart size cans in most marine stores. http://www.jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm Mix the two parts, pour in to a garbage bag, grab your favorite drink and sit on it for about 15 minutes. instant mold of your deriere. michael silvius in cold rainy Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" > Many racing series use form fitted seats. (snip) > The experimenters out there could easily come up with some ideas > of materials that should work and I would think fiberglass should do > well in the actual construction of the seats. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:45 PM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Vought" I love to see inovation at work...Good on ya, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" > > > Mark: > I have seen seats made using that expandable foam. Same thing as the spray > stuff but you can buy it in quart size cans in most marine stores. > http://www.jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm > Mix the two parts, pour in to a garbage bag, grab your favorite drink and > sit on it for about 15 minutes. instant mold of your deriere. > > michael silvius > in cold rainy Scarborough, Maine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark" > >> Many racing series use form fitted seats. > (snip) >> The experimenters out there could easily come up with some ideas >> of materials that should work and I would think fiberglass should do >> well in the actual construction of the seats. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:10 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT In a message dated 11/16/2005 2:54:01 PM Central Standard Time, carbarvo@knology.net writes: I have seen seats made using that expandable foam. Same thing as the spray > stuff but you can buy it in quart size cans in most marine stores. That stuff is closed cell foam, and will inhibit air circulation. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:16 PM PST US From: Mark Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: raising the seat NOT BAYES_00 -2.60, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB 0.01) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/16/2005 2:54:01 PM Central Standard Time, > carbarvo@knology.net writes: > > I have seen seats made using that expandable foam. Same thing as > the spray > > stuff but you can buy it in quart size cans in most marine stores. > > That stuff is closed cell foam, and will inhibit air circulation. > > Chuck G. Chuck what I think he meant is using that stuff to make a mold of a body from which a seat could be made out of, not making the seat out of that stuff. It sounds logical and like it would work to me, but then again I haven't tried it either. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:37 PM PST US From: "Mike Green" Subject: Pietenpol-List: External stringers Hi All, Just wanting to know what you guys have done at the tail end with the external stringers for the fabric stand off. I was trying to avoid adding the 1/4"x1/2" stringer to both sides of the vertical section of the tail to prevent having a "fat" tail post leading into a "skinny" rudder but having pondered about it for a day, seem to think it's the easiest option. Any advise/criticism welcome. Mike Green Romsey, Victoria, AUSTRALIA. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:36 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MEK proof sanding sealer? I used West System epoxy on all surfaces that come into contact with the fabric. It doesnt have any odor, which is great for working in the house. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: MEK proof sanding sealer? Mike Cuy has recommended using a Dupont 222 Sanding Sealer to coat any varnished wood prior to covering to prevent the PolyTac from dissolving the varnish. Problem is I can't find the stuff anywhere including the Internet. Does anyone know where this stuff can be found or of a substitute? Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:49 PM PST US From: "Catdesign" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" Harvey asked: >There is a lip on the floor at the heel section which causes my heel to > get stuck there at times.I think I may just rivet another piece of > aluninum here in order to stop this from happening.Anybody else > experience this aspect of the heel getting caught here?Or am I just > having a bad day? I think a lot of people have installed plates from the top of the landing gear (ash) cross brace forward to the floor so their feet slide better and do not get caught on the lip of the ash cross brace Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 11/14/05 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:33 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: raising the seat, extending the vertical stab, and Corvair College #9 Can't find an email for him, but the N-number is registered to this address: 14281 Urn Rd Jacksonville, FL 32218 -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ Good info Mike, does Pat Green have an email address that you know of? Would like to ask him some increasing wingspan questions.