Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? (Matt Dralle)
2. 02:12 AM - Nails-wing fittings (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
3. 03:16 AM - Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction (Ben Charvet)
4. 04:03 AM - Re: Light Sport Aircraft (Regs as I read them) (Sterling)
5. 04:25 AM - Re: Replacing A65 with C85 (Lou Wither)
6. 05:05 AM - Re: How much weld is needed for lift strut? (Michael D Cuy)
7. 05:05 AM - FlyCorvair update (Oscar Zuniga)
8. 05:19 AM - Replacing A65 with C85 (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 05:25 AM - Re: How much weld is needed for lift strut? ()
10. 06:18 AM - forming upper wing wrap-around fitting (Michael D Cuy)
11. 06:45 AM - Taco Hangar spotted in Kentucky ! (Michael D Cuy)
12. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction ()
13. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction (Phillips, Jack)
14. 07:59 AM - Thanks! forming upper wing wrap-around fitting (Jim Markle)
15. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction (Lou Wither)
16. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction ()
17. 09:23 AM - Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction (harvey rule)
18. 02:34 PM - Re: forming upper wing wrap-around fitting (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
19. 03:05 PM - Re: steel fittings & bracing wires (Dale Johnson)
20. 06:34 PM - Help from our U.K. friends (wdmelvin@netzero.net)
21. 07:30 PM - help from our U.K. friends (Oscar Zuniga)
22. 07:59 PM - Re: Help from our U.K. friends (Dick)
23. 08:12 PM - Re: Help from our U.K. friends (Dick)
24. 08:12 PM - Re: help from our U.K. friends ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I've also had a rather extensive background
in web development and CGI design during this period.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 50 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For the upmost in flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own
servers here locally. Other support systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched
network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda
spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial business T1 Internet
connection with static addressing.
The computer servers found here include two, dual processor Xeon Linux systems
dedicated to the email and web functions respectfully, and another P4 Linux system
serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for
an on-line, hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terabytes of storage. This
entire system is protected by multiple commercial-grade uninterrupted power
supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local
power outage!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Here's a new composite photo of the
List Computer Center following this Summer's upgrades!
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It
is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keep it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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ETAsAhRxdNs9fyUPy6gUqz+si0zDr2SMVgIUFrwgoaKxV4zadD3+SNsugrzb6qM=
| Subject: | Nails-wing fittings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Galen: If you use aircraft nails there is really no need to remove them
unless you just want to. I used hardware store brads and staples which
had to be removed. I made nailing strips from luan as you described.
It worked great. For tail brace wires I'm using 1/16 cable with some
small turnbuckles that I got in the Oshkosh fly market. Jim I've looked
at those wing fittings too and decided they probably should be 7/8 wide
rather than 1" as shown on the plans. The weld will probably make up for
1/8" difference. This is just another one of the MANY, MANY mistakes
that BHP never bothered to clean up. Leon S.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Those were probably my pictures you saw at mykitplanes.com
I used 3/4 inch aircraft nails to glue the fuselage sides on and never
thought of pulling them out, because the total weight of the nails was
probably about 4 ounces or less.. The bottom curve of the fuselage
would make fitting a nailing strip a chore, but I suppose it could be
done. I also used the little 3/8 inch nails on my wing ribs and left
those in place also. I've tried using the 1 inch aircraft nails, but
they are of the same guage as the shorter ones and they are difficult to
use without bending, I'm sure as you follow the list you will see both
sides of this arguement, and ultimately this will be just one of
thousands of little decisions you will make in your Pietenpol journey.
Its nice to have access to so many opinions, though, isn't it?
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Glenn Thomas wrote:
> I was looking at pictures on http://www.kitplanes.com and one step of
> the project was the addition of the ply sides to the fuse. Prior to
> applying the T-88, hundreds of nails were started over markings on the
> plywood so that it could be quickly nailed down before the adhesive
> cured. I have also read that the nails should be removed.
>
> I haven't actually done any building yet because I'm still trying to
> put together a plan. Would it be ok to place a strip of cheap thin
> plywood or luan where the nails go so that after the glue sets you can
> pull the nails out by simply removing the top strip of plywood? To
> make my question clear you would nail through the strip of
> plywood/luan and then through the fuselage plywood into the spars so
> that you could remove the nails by removing the top strip of wood. It
> just seems like you'd really be digging up the surface of the plywood
> trying to get all those nails out. If this is a valid idea would you
> just purchase nails long enough to compensate for that top strip of
> plywood that you use or would you be able to go deep enough with the
> nails most people use? Is there a reason why this wouldn't be a good
> idea? Maybe the builder's manual goes into this. I've been focusing
> on the motor now since winter is settling in and I have a warm (small)
> place to work when it's cold and have the wood work planned for the
> early spring.
>
> Glenn Thomas
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Light Sport Aircraft (Regs as I read them) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
My AOPA membership came in handy again. Last week I contacted AOPA and the
representative said the meds I am taking should not be an issue for my 3rd
class physical.
Also, by quiting coffee (ouch) and other forms of caffine, and reducing my
salt intake (not to mention reducing my girth a couple of inches) my blood
pressure would be back to normal.
I'd much rather maintain my private pilot's license rather than switch to
the sport pilot way of flying. I'll be scheduling my flight physical in a
few weeks and report back to advise how it went.
Sterling
(Almost bought a Glasair this weekend, but now looking at a Tailwind... Will
be fun to be able to go fast in the Tailwind and low and slow in the
Aircamper... Thank goodness for free hanger space.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <aerialphotos@dp.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Light Sport Aircraft (Regs as I read them)
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark <aerialphotos@dp.net>
>
> Sterling wrote:
>
> > If a private pilot is in need of renewing his or her 3rd Class
> > Medical, and if that same pilot is now taking blood pressure
> > medication for BP that is a tad high, not to mention Lipitor for goo
> > in the blood, and if the 3rd Class is denied by the FAA because by
> > law, the new medication has to be reported (because t is a felony not
> > to report the new meds) the way I read the regs, is that pilot
> > *CAN'T* fly under the new Sport Pilot LSA class.
> >
> > The regs seem to suggest if you blow the physical, *you can't use your
> > drivers license to suggest you are healthy enough to fly under the LSA.*
> > **
> > The way I see keeping this simple, is to* NOT* take the 3rd Class
> > physical and simply fly under the LSA regs, with your driver's license
> > allowing for the LSA and everyone is happy (right)...
> >
> > Sterling
> >
>
> Sterling the Liptor probably will not be a problem as long as everything
> else is ok, but the blood pressure meds will require some extra tests.
> If they don't turn up anything it may not be that big of a deal, but if
> they do it might get expensive. Yes they have to be reported, and yes
> once you start the process you are committed as far as LSA goes, but not
> every prescription med is disqualifying. The best resource I have
> found is the AOPA medical certification branch. It alone is worth the
> price of dues. They keep up on this type of stuff an can give you good
> solid information on which to base a sound decision about your flying
future
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing A65 with C85 |
I installed a C85 on the front of my Piet. Used a wooden prop carved by Ed Sturba
in Florida. It is a 76" x 44". I think this is an ideal prop.
My installation of the C85 did not have the starter or the generator. I moved
the engine forward 5" and the wing back 2". This is with the long fuselage, weighed
in a 680 lbs. I am a large person 230 lbs., and ended up putting an additional
35 lbs of ballast in the front to get the CG back in line. I also have
a fuselage tank with 15.5 gallons over the front cockpit.
This springs project is to add the starter and the generator. I might just as
well have something useful in the front if I have to carry around ballast.
Lou Wither
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How much weld is needed for lift strut? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Jim--- I headed that strip with a torch with it in a vise and used a good
sized hammer to bend it around the tube.
It helps if you use a way longer strip of 1" for leverage. I never
flattened my upper strut ends or welded them to this
strap fitting...just welded washers on either side of the lift strut and
bolted it together.
Mike C.
Message 7
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| Subject: | FlyCorvair update |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
There is a short update on William Wynne's FlyCorvair site, dated Nov. 18,
with some informative photos of the teardown of the 2700cc engine that ran
for 200 hrs. on his demonstrator 601. Also some good info on oil gauges.
It's at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 8
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| Subject: | Replacing A65 with C85 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Jeff writes-
<snip>Also, the new engine, which has starter and generator, will weigh
>at least 50 lbs more. This will change weight and balance, of course.
>Some people say that the wing can be moved fore or aft to compensate
>for W&B changes. Others say that this is not really true since such
>movement would alter the relationship of center of lift to landing
>gear. What is the list's wisdom on this?
Doc Mosher wrote an excellent post on this topic a while back, worth
studying just to understand the problems. It does not address the geometry
issue, which has also been discussed and there is clearly a good range of
angles that the axle centerline should fall relative to the wing and CG
geometry for acceptable handling. But here's Doc's post again, as general
information.
===========================
Time: 07:01:01 PM PST US
From: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ancient CAA recommendations for CG limits
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net>
Recently there have been some questions concerning establishing practical
CG limits on homebuilt Pietenpols. Perhaps by going back to the Piet era
(1930s) we can gain an insight about how the CG limits were established in
those days ("That's how Bernie did it.")
Years ago, the CAA published a manual that all the A&E mechanics (Aircraft
& Engine mechanics in those days) used as a standard for airworthy repairs
and alterations. It was called the "Department of Commerce, Civil
Aeronautics Administration Manual 18." The title was "Maintenance, Repair,
and Alteration of Certificated Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Propellers, and
Instruments." Manual 18 had a bunch of changes over the years, so don't
use a Manual 18 printed later than 1941 or it may not have these 1930s tips
about weight and balance limits.
Back in the early 1930s, the Type Certificate Data Sheets that were issued
by the CAA for each model of certificated airplane were quite brief - 10
or 12 lines of print. Today, those same TCDSs for those antique airplanes
still appear in that brief, sweet, naive condition. Compare that with
today's TCDS of the popular Aeronca Champion - 32 pages!
So if the C.G. limits are not set by the FAA in a TCDS (and of course, on
your homebuilt experimental Pietenpol there is no TCDS), how can you know
where the limits should be? If you can find an old pre-WWII Manual 18 (my
reference is "As amended June 1, 1941), you will find a couple of
interesting rules of thumb about Center of Gravity locations.
For instance, on page II-5, under "E. APPROVED CENTER OF GRAVITY LIMITS"
1. Current Models - stated on the pertinent aircraft specification in
percent of the MAC or in inches aft of a given datum. This information may
be obtained from the local Civil Aeronautics Inspector.
2. Older Models - In the case of those models for which approved limits
are not given on the specification or listing, it will usually be
acceptable to assume the limits to be at 18% and 30% of the MAC for low and
mid wing monoplanes and 22% and 34% of the MAC for high wing monoplanes and
biplanes.
Inasmuch as several models are known to have satisfactory flight
characteristics with the C.G. beyond such arbitrary positions, these should
not be considered hard and fast limits. In such cases, approval will
depend largely upon the recommendations of the examining inspector. The
major consideration governing approval of such cases will be the relative
change in the empty weight C.G. due to the alterations, rather than the
absolute C.G. extremes.
If the approved forward limit thus determined is exceeded, it may be
considered satisfactory provided that it is demonstrated to the local Civil
Aeronautics Inspector that the aircraft can be landed in the three-point
position when landed in the extreme forward condition.
Page II-6 of old CAA Manual 18 goes on to say:
G. DETERMINATION OF LOADED CENTER OF GRAVITY EXTREMES (The most forward
and most rearward C.G. positions obtainable as equipped and with the most
critical distribution of useful load.) The loaded extremes may be
determined either, (1) by weighing the two loaded conditions or, (2) by
computation. Both procedures have a common objective; namely, to
demonstrate that, under the most adverse loading conditions (forward and
aft), the C.G. positions will not exceed the approved limits (Part E)
which have been determined by flight test as the most extreme positions at
which the model will satisfactorily comply with the Civil Air Regulations.
A note on page II-17 states:
When the necessary information is not included in the pertinent
specifications (as for older models), it will be necessary to obtain such
data by computation and actual measurement.
OK, when you start your establishment of loaded C.G. limits on your
Pietenpol, lets use these old CAA limits (22% of the MAC for forward limit
and 34% of the MAC for the rearward limit on your high wing monoplane). A
forward C.G. may make it so you cannot land the airplane in a three-point
position (put another way, the engine is just too heavy for the too-small
elevators at slow speed to overcome). A rearward C.G. starts to get into
problems with stability and spin recovery. Vaughan Askue in his book
Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft says "C.G. provides the most direct
method the pilot has for controlling pitch stability. Moving the C.G.
forward increases the effectiveness of the horizontal tail and improves
both static and dynamic stability. The primary objective of a stability
test program is to prove that the airplane has acceptable stability
characteristics at a limiting C.G. This C.G. then becomes the aft C.G.
limit called out in the airplane's limitations. If moving the C.G. limit
forward gives acceptable stability without hurting the utility of the
airplane, then this is the simplest fix for a stability problem.
What does all this mean in your Piet? If you establish the fore and aft
loaded C.G. limits at something like 22% and 34% of the Mean Aerodynamic
Chord and try to stay away from the rear limit as much as possible (that's
the one where instability starts to take over), you will probably be OK.
Historically, most Piets come out of the jig being tail heavy because they
don't have that heavy Ford A engine on the front end of the
teeter-totter. If you increase the arm of the engine weight of a 220#
Corvair engine, for example, (move it 4 or 5 inches forward of where the
Ford used to be) your Piet will probably not be chronically tail
heavy. Then, if you want, you can tweak it by moving the wing fore or aft
- usually aft - to really set the loaded CG between your goal numbers of
22/34%
That's how Bernie did it. It still works. A pound is a pound the world
around.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
===========================
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How much weld is needed for lift strut? |
Hey Jim,
These are the most difficult steel parts on the whole project. I struggled with
bending
red hot steel around tubing and I was not successful.
I finally made up dies and formed the parts in a hydraulic press.
It was two-step process. Bend them into a U shape first, then squeeze them into
the final shape around a piece of tubing. It took a 20 ton press.
The width of the fitting will have to allow for final welding and grinding.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How much weld is needed for lift strut?
Can someone tell me the secret to "wrapping" the 1" X 13ga strip "around" the
tubing in the upper strut fitting per the attached detail?
Seems that this process would put a lot of stress on the 13ga, but maybe if it's
done right, it's ok...
So I'm thiniking just heat up the strip and wrap it around the tubing then using
a vise or some kind of clamp, squeeze the strip "tight" right up next to the
tubing...all the while keeping it red hot...hmmm.
Also, if the gap between the wing attach strips is 1" and the fitting is 1",
then some weld would increase the fitting to more than an inch...in which case
the weld would have to be ground down...is grinding down the excess (over 1"
thick) acceptable in this case?
Am I right or is there another (better) way to do this?
Thanks
Jim in Plano...
Message 10
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| Subject: | forming upper wing wrap-around fitting |
Attached is a sketch of how I formed this fitting using a big vise and a
torch...plus the
classic Tony B. idea for vise inserts to make nice radii. You can do this
without
extravagant means, it just takes some time to heat and work the pieces down and
squeezed until the strap fits snugly around the tube. I used much longer
pieces than
spelled out in the plans for ease of handling and to cut to size later.
Mike C.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Taco Hangar spotted in Kentucky ! |
Guys-- this is pretty funny. A fellow builder/flyer from Kentucky posted
this on another list. Read below
and then open the attached photo. Hilarious.
Mike C. do not archive
>On a light note, our 3 year old granddaughter, home for Thanksgiving on
>the farm, kept talking about the big taco. We couldn't figure out what she
>was talking about until we looked out in the backyard from the perspective
>of a 3 year old. (see attached picture)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
Thanks Ben,
I've got a bad case of analysis paralysis. I'm trying to understand all the in's
and out's of this project and, of course, everyone has different ideas. Up
here in Connecticut it has already snowed once and the garage is a bit chilly
which is why I'm putting off the wood work until Spring. That will give me the
Winter to focus on the motor, read books and gather info from people like you.
Matt Paxton, who wrote the article for AVWeb, "Wooden it be lovely" also
left the nails in, so I guess it really doesn't matter. In spite of all the concern
over doing it the right way, I have to admit this is the most exhilerating
and awesome thing I have ever attempted.
Thanks for the info,
Glenn
>
> From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
> Date: 2005/11/28 Mon AM 06:15:31 EST
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brads Used During Fuse Construction
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>
> Those were probably my pictures you saw at mykitplanes.com
> I used 3/4 inch aircraft nails to glue the fuselage sides on and never
> thought of pulling them out, because the total weight of the nails was
> probably about 4 ounces or less.. The bottom curve of the fuselage
> would make fitting a nailing strip a chore, but I suppose it could be
> done. I also used the little 3/8 inch nails on my wing ribs and left
> those in place also. I've tried using the 1 inch aircraft nails, but
> they are of the same guage as the shorter ones and they are difficult to
> use without bending, I'm sure as you follow the list you will see both
> sides of this arguement, and ultimately this will be just one of
> thousands of little decisions you will make in your Pietenpol journey.
> Its nice to have access to so many opinions, though, isn't it?
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
>
> Glenn Thomas wrote:
>
> > I was looking at pictures on http://www.kitplanes.com and one step of
> > the project was the addition of the ply sides to the fuse. Prior to
> > applying the T-88, hundreds of nails were started over markings on the
> > plywood so that it could be quickly nailed down before the adhesive
> > cured. I have also read that the nails should be removed.
> >
> > I haven't actually done any building yet because I'm still trying to
> > put together a plan. Would it be ok to place a strip of cheap thin
> > plywood or luan where the nails go so that after the glue sets you can
> > pull the nails out by simply removing the top strip of plywood? To
> > make my question clear you would nail through the strip of
> > plywood/luan and then through the fuselage plywood into the spars so
> > that you could remove the nails by removing the top strip of wood. It
> > just seems like you'd really be digging up the surface of the plywood
> > trying to get all those nails out. If this is a valid idea would you
> > just purchase nails long enough to compensate for that top strip of
> > plywood that you use or would you be able to go deep enough with the
> > nails most people use? Is there a reason why this wouldn't be a good
> > idea? Maybe the builder's manual goes into this. I've been focusing
> > on the motor now since winter is settling in and I have a warm (small)
> > place to work when it's cold and have the wood work planned for the
> > early spring.
> >
> > Glenn Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Glenn,
One of the hardest things to do when contemplating building an airplane
is to just "pull the trigger" and get started. There are a few tips
that can help you get started and keep working on the project:
1. Don't look at the project as a whole - it is simply too intimidating
to think of all the tasks required to build an airplane from scratch
(hence the popularity of all those kits on the market). Instead, just
think of it as a bunch of small projects and concentrate on finishing
them, one at a time. Start with something simple, like building wing
ribs (you can do that indoors during the winter - all you need is a
workspace large enough to hold a piece of plywood 12" wide and about 6'
long).
2. Try to work on it some every day, if at all possible. Even if all
you do is install one nutplate, or just look at the plans and think of
your next steps, that is better than ignoring it.
3. Don't worry about making it perfect. You will make many mistakes.
Just learn to repair the mistakes that are serious, but fixable.
Serious mistakes that can't be fixed can be made over. Trivial mistakes
that don't affect flight safety and won't be obvious to the casual
observer can be ignored.
4. Don't get in a hurry to fly. Enjoy the building process. I
finished mine last year and I'm still missing having an airplane to work
on in the basement. I'm about to buy an RV-10 kit, partly because I
enjoy building an airplane, and partly because I need something with 4
seats and a high cruise speed.
You are about to embark on something that few people start, and even
fewer finish. Enjoy it!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Icarus Plummet
-----Original Message-----
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
...I've got a bad case of analysis paralysis. ...In spite of all the
concern over doing it the right way, I have to admit this is the most
exhilerating and awesome thing I have ever attempted.
Thanks for the info,
Glenn
Message 14
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| Subject: | Thanks! forming upper wing wrap-around fitting |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
This is exactly what I had in mind. But after reading Greg's comment about how
difficult it is to form the metal, I was beginning to wonder if I could do it
without the die. I had just about decided to leave it straight and put a spacer
(the same depth as the OD of the tubing) between the 1" straps where the bolts
go through....but I'm going to give this a try and see how well it works
for me.
Time to blow the sawdust off the gas tanks...
Thanks very much.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: forming upper wing wrap-around fitting
Attached is a sketch of how I formed this fitting using a big vise and a
torch...plus the
classic Tony B. idea for vise inserts to make nice radii. You can do this
without
extravagant means, it just takes some time to heat and work the pieces down and
squeezed until the strap fits snugly around the tube. I used much longer
pieces than
spelled out in the plans for ease of handling and to cut to size later.
Mike C.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction |
Glen,
Where are you located in Connecticut. I finished my project last summer. Did
it in my cellar. I am located in Branford. If you need some help let me know.
Lou Wither
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
Wow!
I've been wondering if there were any other Piet's in CT. I'd love to take a look
at one that's finished. Do you think I could check yours out some time?
I'm in Storrs.
Thanks,
Glenn
>
> From: Lou Wither <nav8799h@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: 2005/11/28 Mon AM 11:11:10 EST
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brads Used During Fuse Construction
>
> Glen,
>
> Where are you located in Connecticut. I finished my project last summer. Did
it in my cellar. I am located in Branford. If you need some help let me know.
>
> Lou Wither
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Brads Used During Fuse Construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Like we say here at Bell Canada,we take one thing and do it right.It's
the Company that screws up!
"Phillips, Jack" wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> Glenn,
>
> One of the hardest things to do when contemplating building an airplane
> is to just "pull the trigger" and get started. There are a few tips
> that can help you get started and keep working on the project:
>
> 1. Don't look at the project as a whole - it is simply too intimidating
> to think of all the tasks required to build an airplane from scratch
> (hence the popularity of all those kits on the market). Instead, just
> think of it as a bunch of small projects and concentrate on finishing
> them, one at a time. Start with something simple, like building wing
> ribs (you can do that indoors during the winter - all you need is a
> workspace large enough to hold a piece of plywood 12" wide and about 6'
> long).
>
> 2. Try to work on it some every day, if at all possible. Even if all
> you do is install one nutplate, or just look at the plans and think of
> your next steps, that is better than ignoring it.
>
> 3. Don't worry about making it perfect. You will make many mistakes.
> Just learn to repair the mistakes that are serious, but fixable.
> Serious mistakes that can't be fixed can be made over. Trivial mistakes
> that don't affect flight safety and won't be obvious to the casual
> observer can be ignored.
>
> 4. Don't get in a hurry to fly. Enjoy the building process. I
> finished mine last year and I'm still missing having an airplane to work
> on in the basement. I'm about to buy an RV-10 kit, partly because I
> enjoy building an airplane, and partly because I need something with 4
> seats and a high cruise speed.
>
> You are about to embark on something that few people start, and even
> fewer finish. Enjoy it!
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Icarus Plummet
>
> -----Original Message-----
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
>
> ...I've got a bad case of analysis paralysis. ...In spite of all the
> concern over doing it the right way, I have to admit this is the most
> exhilerating and awesome thing I have ever attempted.
>
> Thanks for the info,
> Glenn
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: forming upper wing wrap-around fitting |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius@worldnet.att.net>
Mike:
Not bad, but I sort of like DJ's solution for the problem. A lot simpler, no
welding and you end up w/ adjustable fittings on the lift strut.
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-13-04.htm
all the best:
Michael Silvius
Scarborough, Maine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> Attached is a sketch of how I formed this fitting using a big vise and a
> torch...plus the
> classic Tony B. idea
Message 19
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| Subject: | steel fittings & bracing wires |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn@earthlink.net>
Hi Tom
That lower metal fitting is the upper motor mount . The tab on the top is
for drag bracing for the wing if you don't use the cross bracing that was
used on
the early campers.With this bracing it makes it a lot easier to get in the
front hole.
As for the tail we used 3/32 cable 7 by 7 in SS. With MS20667-3
MS21260-53lh An155-16S Barrel & AN161-16RS Fork
Dale In Mpls
> [Original Message]
> From: tmbrant1@netzero.com <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 11/27/2005 5:05:13 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: steel fittings & bracing wires
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
<tmbrant1@netzero.net>
>
> On the plans sheet of the "improved" air camper from the Pietenpol
family, the dwg of the extended fuselage has some metal fittings on the
bottom of the sheet. One of the fittings just says "Up to wing". What is
this piece for? It appears to be an engine mount fitting but I don't get
the tab on top.
>
> I'm working on the tail section and wondering what people are using for
bracing wire, turnbuckles, etc..
>
> Tom B.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Help from our U.K. friends |
Hello All,
I was looking at the Pietenpol UK website when I stumbled across some pics of
the Flitzer biplane. I was wondering, since I have a brother stationed in the
U.K. right now, does anyone know where Mr Williams is located in the U.K. and
if there is a good contact for him? He has tried to e-mail him through his
website to no avail. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Bill
Hello All,
I was looking at the Pietenpol UK website when I stumbled across some pics of the
Flitzer biplane. I was wondering, since I have a brother stationed in the U.K.
right now, does anyone know where Mr Williams is located in the U.K. and if
there is a good contact for him? He has tried to e-mail him through his website
to no avail. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Bill
Message 21
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| Subject: | help from our U.K. friends |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
The man you want is right here on this list... Chris, the "Braumeister" and
uber-Flitzerwhatever. He'll see your post and chime in shortly.
Chris visited the U.K. guys and had a great time. I'm sure he knows who you
want to contact in the U.K.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 22
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| Subject: | Help from our U.K. friends |
Bill - try www.av8rblake.com/flitzer for most info you will need. Also
www.frapper.com/flitzerbuilders for worldwide location of builders and
those who want to. Enjoy both sites. Regards, Dick
Hello All,
I was looking at the Pietenpol UK website when I stumbled across some
pics of the Flitzer biplane. I was wondering, since I have a brother
stationed in the U.K. right now, does anyone know where Mr Williams is
located in the U.K. and if there is a good contact for him? He has
tried to e-mail him through his website to no avail. Any information is
greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Bill
Message 23
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| Subject: | Help from our U.K. friends |
Bill (and all) - missed on the second link. Should have been
www.frappr.com/flitzerbuilders -- sorry about that!! Dick
Bill - try <http://www.av8rblake.com/flitzer> www.av8rblake.com/flitzer
for most info you will need. Also xxxxxxxxxxxxx for worldwide
location of builders and those who want to. Enjoy both sites.
Regards, Dick
Hello All,
I was looking at the Pietenpol UK website when I stumbled across some
pics of the Flitzer biplane. I was wondering, since I have a brother
stationed in the U.K. right now, does anyone know where Mr Williams is
located in the U.K. and if there is a good contact for him? He has
tried to e-mail him through his website to no avail. Any information is
greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Bill
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: help from our U.K. friends |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Chris isn't currently on the Pietenpol list.
Search Yahoo groups for "Flitzer" where you
will find
a very active group.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: help from our U.K.
friends
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
> "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> The man you want is right here on this
> list... Chris, the "Braumeister" and
> uber-Flitzerwhatever. He'll see your post
> and chime in shortly.
>
> Chris visited the U.K. guys and had a great
> time. I'm sure he knows who you want to
> contact in the U.K.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> Month --
> Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> out more about
> Gifts provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> www.kitlog.com, and
> www.homebuilthelp.com!
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Forum -
> Subscriptions page,
> Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
>
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