---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/05/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:17 AM - 2005 List of Contributors - Thank You... (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:34 AM - update on Flycorvair.com (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 05:44 AM - bolts and such (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 07:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 12/04/05 (Butch Pennewell) 5. 08:16 AM - trim adjustment update (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 09:04 AM - Re: trim adjustment update (Jim Markle) 7. 10:20 AM - Re: trim adjustment update (Jeff Boatright) 8. 10:30 AM - Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Jim Markle) 9. 10:53 AM - Re: Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Phillips, Jack) 10. 11:13 AM - Re: trim adjustment update (Mark Blackwell) 11. 11:38 AM - Re: Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Jim Markle) 12. 12:58 PM - Re: Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Jeff Boatright) 13. 01:00 PM - Re: Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Jeff Boatright) 14. 01:06 PM - Re: Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Peter W Johnson) 15. 02:20 PM - trim sketches (Michael D Cuy) 16. 03:22 PM - Re: trim sketches (Peter W Johnson) 17. 05:42 PM - Flying NX770CG (Jim Cooper) 18. 08:15 PM - Re: Up AND Down Trim adjustment? (Gary Gower) 19. 11:20 PM - Re: Up AND Down trim adjustment? (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:15 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2005 List of Contributors - Thank You... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Let me say *thank you* to everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all the great comments people had regarding what the Lists mean to them and how much they look forward to reading the new posts each day. As I have said many times before, running these Lists and creating the many new features is truly a labor of love. This is why your comments of support and appreciation have particular meaning for me. Your generosity during this time of List support only underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. There are still a number of the various Free Gifts to be had as well. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), and Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are three great guys that support this industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their respective web sites. Thank you Andy, Paul, and Jon!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find the 2005 List of Contributors current as of 12/4/05! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ------------------ 2005 List of Contributors --------------------- Ackerman, John P Ackland, Andrew Ackworth, Robert Adamson, Arden Akerstrom, Ed Alberti, David Alexander, George Allee, Joseph Allen, Mark L Alley, Brian Allington, Wally Allsop, Bryan Alons, Kevin Al, Rupp Altenhein, Gary Anderson, Edward Anderson, John Anderson, Ken Andrews, Ronald Anliker, Mark Anthony, Bruce Anton, Bill Applefeld, Gerald Archer, Matt Ashcraft, Keith Atkinson, Paul Austin, Peter Babb, Tony Bahrns, Stan Baker, Mike Baker, Owen Baker, Roger Baker, Victor Baleshta, Doug Ballenger, James Barba, Alberto Barnes, Thomas Barrie, Darwin Barson, Ron Barter, Tom Basiliere, Rick Bass, George BatchelderJr, Ellery Bates Jr, Marcus Bean, Jim Bean, Robert Bearden, Jeff Beauchamp, Norm Bellach, Robin Bell, Bruce B Bell, Jack Belvin, Thomas Benjamin, Hal Benson, Lonn Benson, Lonnie Berges, Duncan Berg, Wayne Bermudez, John Berner, Walter Bernier, Jim Berry, Bert Berry, Jim Bertz, Gary Berube, Bob Betz, Judie Bezzard, Richard Bickham, John Bidle, Jerry Bieberdorf, Roger Billingsley, Dan Billington, Chuck Bish, Dan Black, Milton Blackwell, Jimmie Blackwell, Rodney Blair, Sean Blank, Stephen Boeshaar, David Boetto, Steve Bohannon, Larry Bollaert, Brian Bonds, Kevin Boothe, Gary Booze, Greg Bope, David Bordelon, Bruce Borger, Robert Boucher, Michel Boulet, Paul Bourne, Larry Bowen, Gordon Bowen, James Bowen, Larry Bowman, Brice Bowman, John Boxill, Mike Boyd, Bill Boyer, James R Boyle, Neville Brame, Charles Brandt, Leroy Brasch, Glenn Breckenridge, Bruce Bressler, Wes Bressler, Wesley Brick, John Brien, Tim Briggs, Gary Brogley, Michael Brooks, John Brooks, Kenyon Brooks, Sterling Broom, Richard Brown, Allen Brown, Bob Brunke, Judy Bryan, Mark Buchanan, Guy Buchmann, Keith Buckthal, Robert Buess, Alfred Bullett, Charles Bullock, Jack Bumhoffer, Al Burden, Ron Burke, James Burkhardt, Michael Burnaby, John Burnett, Ron Burns, Mark Burrill, Phil Burrows, Alan Burton, James Busch, Rob Butcher, James Butcher, Ron Butler, Francis Butler, Sherman Butterfield, John Buyse, Lieven Caldwell, Rick Cannon, Michael Cannon, Paul Cann, Tony Cantrell, Jim Cantrell, Jimmy Capen, Ralph Capra, Sal Cardell, Bill Carillon Sr, Paul Carpenter, Jeffrey Carpenter, Kenneth Carriere, James Carroll, Randy Carter, David Carter, Howard Carter, PaulQ Carter, Preston Cary, William Casson, Perry Challgren, Stanley Chambers, Ken Champion, Robert Chandler, Rick Chang, Ted Chatham, Robert Checkoway, Dan Chelvanayagam, Indran Chenoweth, William Chevaillier, Mason Circle, Roger Clarke, Christopher Clarke, Paddy Clark, James Clark, Michael Clay, Dennis Cleaveland Aircraft Tool Cliff, John Clifford, Dewayne Clyma, Frank Coalwell, Timothy Cochran, Mark Cochran, Stewart Coggins, Mickey Cole, Gary Cole, Gerry Cole, Roger Colucci, Tony Combs, Doyle Combs, Jim Comfort, Gordon Compton, Scott Condrey, Bob Connell, Joseph Conrad, Gerald Constant, Jeremy Cook, Doug Cook, Marc Cooling, John Cooper, James Cooper, Marcus Corbalis, Leo Corder, Michael Corner, Jim Corriveau, Grant Cottingham, Richard Cottrell, Larry Coursey, William Courtney, James Coussons, Herb Cox, John Cravener, Donald Crawford, Corey Creer, Michael Cribb, William Crockett, Jim Crosby, Harry Crosley, Rich Cross, Brian Crothers, Bill Cruikshank, Bruce Culver, Ronald Curtis, William Dalstrom, Douglas Dalton, Bob Daniell, William Danielsen, HansJ%c3%b8rgen Daves, Russell Davidson, Jeff Davies, Brian Davis, Barry Davis, Deems Davis, Robert Dawson, Clif Dawson, Garth Decker, Daniel Decramer, Dick Deford, David De Jong, Jan Delaney, Tom Deloach, Reginald DelPeso, Jose Delsol, Mich%c3%a8le Dennis, Chris Dewees, Ron Dewey, Debbie Dial, Larry Dickson, Robert Dieh, Donald Dietrich, Klaus Disher, John Dominy, Kenneth Donato, John Dondlinger, Leo Doran, Thomas Dorsey, Robert Doud, Herbert Dovey, Martin Doyle, Mike Draper, Mike Dresden, Robert Dufresne, Robert Duke, Gordon Dunne, John Durakovich, David East, David Eckenroth, Paul Edgerton, Wayne Edwards, Ed Edwards, Joe Ehlers, Clyde D Eli, Robert Ellenberger, Christopher Ellenberger, Mike Elliott, Andrew Ellis, Dale Elrod, Michael Engel, Jerry Engh, Duncan England, Charles Erickson, Alan Erickson, Gerald Erickson, Ken Ervin, Thomas Evenson, Roger Fackler, Ken Fair, Deal Falik, Donald Farmer, Daniel Faulkner, Thomas F, Dwight Featherston, Les Feldman, Herb Felker, Timothy Fetterman, Lanny Fillinger, Fred Filucci, Michael Finley, John Fischer, Douglas Fischer, John Fishe, James Fisher, Richard Fitzpatrick, Robert Fix, Douglas Flamini, Dennis Flavin, John Fluent, Grant Flynn, Harold Ford, Dean Ford, John Ford, Michael Forrest, Gerald Forsberg, Erik Fosse, James M Fox, Byron Fox, Stephen Franz, Carl Fray, Jerry Frazier, Ford French, Edwin French, James Fromm, John Fulgham, Bill Fullilove, Ken Fulmer, Joseph Fussell, Larry Fux, Franz Gabbard, Gary Gallagher, Noel Gallenbach, Craig Gantzer, Charles G Gardner, Albert Gardner, Terrence Garland, Doug Garrou, Douglas Gates, Leo Geese, Ronald Geldermann, Daniel Genzlinger, Reade George, Joe George, Neal German, Mark Giacona, William Gibbons, Robert Giddens, Gerald Gillespie, Byron Gillespie, Rl Gilliatt, Jim Glaeser, Dennis Gleason, Mike Goff, George Goguen, Jon Goguen, Nelson Golden, Dennis Goode, Richard Goodings, John Goodridge, Stuart Goolsby, James Gordon, Keith Gottelt, Herbert Gott, Shelby Goudinoff, Peter Gower, Gary Gowing, John Grabb, Gary Graham, Jim Graham Jr, W Doyce Graichen, Peter Grajek, Al Grant, Jordan Grantz, Alan Green, Luther Greenough, Jim Griffin, Bill Griffin, Jim Griffin, Robert Grigson, Greg Grimmonpre, Jerry Groell, Pascal Groote, Curtis Grosse, John Gummo, Thomas Gustafson, Aaron Gwin, Rique Hackler, Douglas Haertlein, Frank Hagar, Steve Hale, Ade Haley, Gary Hall, Charles Hall, Joel Halvorsen, Lyf Hamer, Steve Hamilton, Red Hamilton, William J Hand, Christopher Hankinson, Julian Hanley, BrettAlan Hanley, Mark Hansen, ArnoldKristian Hansen, Graham Happ, Paul Harcourt, David Haring, Robert Harmon, John Harrill, Roy Harrison, Nigel Harrod, Peter Hart, Rob Hasbrouck, John Hatch, Fletcher Hatfield, Cecil Hatfield, William Hauck, John Haverlah, Dennis Haynes, Joel Heaton, Herb Hedrick, Keith Hefferan, Rex Hefner, Jim Hegenauer, Elmar Hegenauer, Manuela Heindl, Karl Hein, Jim Heller, Martin Helming, LarryRobert Henwick, Mark Heritch, Ian Herminghaus, John Herron, Al Hershberger, Edward Herzner, Fred Hetrick, Dale Heykoop, John Hibbing, William Higgins, Floran Hill, Jeff Hill, Ken Hill, Kenneth Hill, StanleyA Hinde, Frank Hodges, Mitchell Hoffman, Allan Hoffman, Carl Holifield, Steve Holland, James Holland, Rick Holliday, Robert Holyoke, Ed Honer, Michael Hooper, Randy Horne, Gilbert Horton, Kevin Howell, Kenneth Howey, Ralph Huft, John Hughes, Robert Hukill, Chris Hunter, Robert Hunt, Malcolm Hunton, Jim Hunt, Wallace Hurd, James Hurn, JohnAllen Hurst, Kingsley Hutchins, Mike Hyde, Ken Isler, Jerry Jacko, Victor W Jaussi, Curtis Jensen, Charles Jensen, Marinus Jernigan, Carroll Jessen, John Johannsson, Johann G Johansson, Max John, Kent Johnsen, Svein Johnson, David Johnson, DennisL Johnson, Forrest Johnson, Ken Johnson, Russell Johnson, William Johnston, Christopher Johnston, Dudley Johnston, Stephen Jones, David Jones, Don W Jones, Eric M Jones, Kenneth Joosten, Craig Jordan, JR Joyce, David Jula, TheodoreF Julian, Raymond Jung, John Jurotich, Matthew Kaluza, Charles Katra, James Kaufmann, Robert Kayner, Dennis Kearney, John Keener, Forest Kelly, Michael Kemp, Roger Kenney, Thomas Kerr, Dennis Kesterton, Donald Kilburg, Larry Killion, Clay Kimsey, Thomas King, John Kinkade, Les Kinne, Russ Kinney, Kevin Kirk, Floyd Kister, Dale Klein, Larry Klingmuller, Lothar Knievel, Gerald Knoll, Barrett Knotts, F Barry Knott, Vernon Kohles, Jerry Koonce, RL Kramer, Ed Krueger, Grant Kruleski, Chet Kulp, David Kummer, Gerald Kuntz, Paul Kuss, Charles Kyle, Fergus Kyle, Larry Lackwitz, Raymond Ladd, Pat Laird, Dave Lammers, Dave Lannon, Walter Lansden, John Larsen, Gene Larson, Joseph Larzilliere, Alain Lathrop, Jim Laundy, Mike Laurie, Kip Ledbetter, Gene Lederman, Howard Ledoux, Paul Lee, Terrence Lee, Thomas Leggette, Edward Lehman, Ken Leinberger, Gary Lekven, Carl Lendon, Ron Lenton, Dennis Lerohl, Gaylen Levy, Pierre Lewis, Scott Lewis, Terry Lewis, Tim Ligon, Howard Lilja, Ken Lind, David Lindsay, Robert Linebaugh, Jeff Lineberry, Gary Linse, Mike Lively, Chad Lloyd, Brian Lloyd, Daniel Loer, Stanley Logan, Michael Long, Charles Long, Eugene Long, Patrick Longwell, Anna Loring, Arthur Loring Jr, Arthur P Loubert, Gary Lovley, Forrest Lucas, David Lundin, Richard Lynch, Charles Lyscars, Alan Macdonald, Larry Macinnes, Bruce Mackay, Alex Macon, Mike Mahurin, Jerry Mains, Ralph Malczynski, Francis Markle, Jim Marlow, Sam Marshall, Aaron Marshall, FR Martin, Jay Martin, Mickey Mason, John Mason, Marty Massari, Stephen Massey, Allen Masys, Daniel Matejcek, Glen Matlack, Dean Matteson, Lynn May, George May, James Mcallister, Paul Mcbean, John Mcbride, Duncan Mccallister, Don Mccallum, Robert Mcchesney, James Mcconnell, Roger Mcdaniel, Steve Mcdonald, Stephen Mcfarland, Larry Mcfarlane, Lloyd Mckeon, Vincent Mckervey, Joseph Mckinnon, Greg Mcmahon, John Mcnutt, George Medeiros, Joel Melenyzer Iv, Cl Mell, Roger Merchant, Dean Merrill, Dj Messinger, Paul Meyers, Jess Meyers, John Meylor, Dean Milgrom, Mark Miller, David Miller, John Miller, Michael Miller, Terrence Mills, Jack Mitchell, Paul Montagne, Ray Montague, Neita Montoure, Kenneth Moore, Dave Moore, David Moore, Goff Moore, Paul Moore, Tom Moore, Warren Moran, Felix Morawski, Brett Morehead, Jim Morley, Hal MorrisN75up, Dave Morris, Steven Morrow, Dan Mortimore, Terry Moser, Scott Mountain, Patrick Mrotzek, Dan Mulcahy, Bob Muldoon Jr, Francis Muller, Albert Muller, Mick Mulwitz, Paul Munn, Mike Munro, Robert Murphy, Walt Myers, George Myers, Gerald Myers, John Nadeau, Michael Naumuk, William Navratil, Mark Navratil, Richard Naylor, Doug Needham, James Neilsen, Richard Neitzel, Richard Nelson, James Nelson, Larry Newkirk, Bill Newsum, James Nicely, Vince Nichols, Clem Niles, Bruce Nimigon, David Noyer, Robert Nuckolls Iii, Robert L Nutt, James Obrien, John Ochs, James Ockuly, Bernie Oconnor, Edward O'Day, Jim Offill, Danny O'Hara, Tom Ohnigian, Steve Okeefe, Lawrence Oke, Jim Oldford, David Oliver, Bradley Olsen, Paul Olson, Bob Olson, Brad Olson, Gary Olson, Tim Orear, Jeff Orsborn, Thomas Overgaard, Allan Owens, Donald Packard, Tom Palamarek, Ted Pansier, Don Partyka, LeeM Paulich, John Payne, Craig Pearsall, Don Peck, Kenneth Peerenboom, Paul Pelletier, David Pellien, James Peoples, James Perez, M Domenic Perkinson, Robert Perry, Ilan Perry, Richard Persels, Lyle Peterson, Alex Peterson, David A Petri, David Petty, Paul Pfeifer, Michael Pfundt, Jan Phillips, Mark Phillips, Terrence Pierce, Roger Pierce, Tony Pierson Jr, Edward Pierzina, Michael Pike, Richard Pilling, Kevin Plecenik, Michael Pocock, Graham Point, Jeff Polits, Richard Ponzio, John Porter, Richard Portouw, Lawrence Powell, Ken Prater, Michael Preston, Doug Prevost, Guy Princell, Bill Pritchard, Jeff Pritchard, Roger Puglise, James Puls, Jeffrey Quinn, Rollie Quist, David Rabbers, Richard Raby, Ron Radford, Joe Rammos, Ricardo Randolph, George Ransom, Brad Rataj, Mark Ray, Carl Reel, David Reese, Craig Reese, Wayne Reeves, Dan Reid, Greg Reining, Bill Reining, Jonathan Reusser, Hans-peter Reynolds, Richard Ribb, Dan Rice, Paul Richardson, Colin Richardson, Paul Richards, Stephen Rickard, Ian Rickman, Loy Ricks, Allen Rigby, David Riggs, Lynn Rigney, Bruce Risch, Robert Ritter, Mark T Roberts, Gary Roberts, John Robertson, Bob Roberts, Rick Robinette, William Robson, Peter Rodebush, James Rodgers, Paul Rodriguez, Paul Rodriguez, Pedro Roehr, Michael Ronnau, James Ross, Christopher Ross, Jonathan Rousselle, Kenneth Rowbotham, Chuck Rowe, Denny Rowe, Jay Rueb, Duane Ruksnaitis, WilliamF Russell, Larry Ryan, Michael Sa, Carlos Sagerser, James Sager, Truman Saligman, Ira Sallas, C William Salter, Phillip Sanders, Andrew Sanford, Fred Sapp, Douglas Sargeant, Jack Sargent, Thomas Savarese, Anthony Dennis Sax, Sam Saylor, David Schemmel, Grant Schertz, William Schieber, Cedric Schieffer, Charles Schilf, Richard Schlafly, Fred Schlatterer, Bill Schlosser, Kevin Schmidt, John Schmitendorf, Bill Schneider, Benjamin Schneider, Werner Schoenberger, Robert Schott, Jared Schrader, Kurt Schreck, Ron Schrimmer, Mark Schroeder, Earl Schroeder, John Schulke, Thomas Scott,Jr, Fred W Scott, Mark Scroggs, Ross Seagrave, Scott Seal, John Selby,Jr, Jim Setser, David Seve, Eddie Shablow, John Shafer, James Shanks, Jim Shank, William Shannon, Kevin Sharp, Michael Sharp, Ralph Shaw, Cliff Shaw, Rex Shepherd, Dallas Shepherd, Stanislaus Sheridan, Roger Sherry, James Shiple, Fred Shipley, RobWM Shipley, Walt Shumaker, Jim Siegfried, Oldbob Simmons, Kendall Simpson, Skip Simutis, Frank J Sinclair, Michael Sinke, Jim Sipp, Richard Sisson, Phil Skelly, Brian Skyring, Kerry Slatt, Gary Small, Thomas Smart, Steven Smith, Bret Smith, DannyL Smith, Gene Smith, Jeff Smith, Kirk Smith, Roland Smith, Ronal Smith, Zed Snedaker, Bob Snyder, Bruce Soikkeli, Robert Solecki, John Sparks, Timothy Spaur, Chuck Specht, Stan Spencer, Scott Springer, Gerald Spudis, Robert Staal, Stephen Staley, Dick Starnes, Robert Starn, JH "kabong" Stefan, Leon Steitle, Mark Stelwagon, Frank Stephanak, Bob Stevenson, Will Stewart, Michael Stinemetze, Thomas St-laurent, Ray Stone, Christopher Stone, Jim Strange, Ted Stribling, James Strong, Gary Sutterfield, Stan Swaney, Mark Swankie, Ian Swartout, John Swinford, George Syverson, David Szantho, John B Tarmar, Brian Tasker, Richard Tatro, John Tatz, Norm Tauchen, Bryan Taupier, John Teegarden, Vaughn Testement, John Tew, Stanley Textor, Jack Tezyk, Robert Thatcher, Scott Therrien, Michel Tholen, Tom Thomas, Bruce Thomas, Glenn Thomas, James Thomas, Lee Thomason, Mannan Thomason, Michael Thomas, Stephen Thorp, Kevin Thwing, Randy Tichy, Robert Tilford, Stephen Tillmann, Johan Timm, Peter Timoney, James Tinker, R Rupert Tomlin, Thomas Tomm, Bevan Tompkins, Jeff Toro, Jose Tower, John Trombley, Erich Trost, Sebastian Trotter, Paul Tuck, John Tupper, Kirby Turrell, Mike Turrentine, Donna Tuton, Bill Tyler, George Unruh, Brian Unternaehrer, Rolf Upshaw, Roman Usrey, Reed Utsey, Randy Utterback, ThomasE Vader, Tim Valovich, Paul Vandenberg, Daniel Van Der Voort, Hans VanDerZouw, Henkjan Van Eldik, Anthony Vangrunsven, Stan VanHeeswijk, J Van Lanen, David Van Winkle, Alden Varnes, William Vaughan, Cye Vaughan, Lee Venables, JohnRoger Verdev, Victor Versteeg, Maarten Vervoort, Jef Vetterli, Richard Vinal, Adelbert Vinroot, Robert Vogt, Gary Von Bevern, Brian Von Doymi, Carl VonRuden, Dennis Voss, Richard Vranken, Karel Wade, Jim Wagner Jr, James E Wagoner, Richard Waligroski, Gregg Walker, Robbie Walker, Tommy Walker, Valerie Walker, Weston Walmsley, Brett Walrath, Howard Walsh, Denis Wambolt, Charles Ward, Ann Washburn, Oliver Watson, Terrence Weaver, Fred Webb, Randol Wehner, Clem Weiler, Douglas C Weinstock, Steven Weisfeld, Hans-peter Weiss, Richard Welsch, Philip Welsh, Don Werner, Russell Wetzel, Bob Whelan, Thomas White, Bob White, Charles Whiteley, Kenneth White, Phil Whittfield, Clive Whittington, Dewitt Wigney, John Wilde, Daniel Williamson, Richard Williamson, William Williams, Terry Willis, Tim Wilson, James Wilson, Kelly Winburn, Larry Winings, James Wither, Louis Woboril, David Wood, Larry Woods, Donald Wsiaki, Michael Wynn, Michael Yeamans, David York, Richard Young, Al Young, Dan Young, Dee Young, Greg Zakreski, Steve Zecherle, John Zelinski, Alan Zilz, Dave Zirges, Malcolm Zollinger, Duane Zuniga, Oscar Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:17 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on Flycorvair.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" William has posted an "at the hangar" update on his webpage, at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . Included are photos of Dave "the Bear" Vargesko's successful test-flight of his Wagabond, some builder photos of Flybaby builders, and some "how not to balance your pistons" photos. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:03 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: bolts and such There are plenty of "non-critical" items in a Piet where alternative techniques and materials can be subsituted in the name of frugality or experimentation. Latex paint, or good quality Douglas fir, etc, come to mind. While everyone can appreciate the need/desire to be frugal, with critical items such as hardware, fitting metal, good quality wood, glue etc, it seems that the real amount of money saved cannot compare with your life. I think there is enough going through one's mind in a plane they built during heavy turbulance, that adding any doubt about the integrity of structural items seems highly undesireable. $.02 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:42 AM PST US From: "Butch Pennewell" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 12/04/05 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Butch Pennewell" On the subject of bolts, I had a bolt salesman tell that every time you tighten a bolt it would take less lbs torque to brake it. Makes a case for changing them every so often in a place where they are taken off and retorqued ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 12/04/05 > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-12 -04.html > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2005-12 -04.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun 12/04/05: 8 > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:31 AM - Re: grade 8 bolts (Harvey Rule) > 2. 07:19 AM - Flying NX770CG - Video (Rcaprd@aol.com) > 3. 08:11 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 (Tim Willis) > 4. 08:11 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 (Tim Willis) > 5. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 (w b evans) > 6. 04:30 PM - Re: Grade 8 vs AN (gbowen@ptialaska.net) > 7. 05:42 PM - Re: Flying NX770CG - Video (John and Phyllis Smoyer) > 8. 06:02 PM - Re: Flying NX770CG - Video (Rcaprd@aol.com) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:31:22 AM PST US > From: Harvey Rule > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: grade 8 bolts > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule > > Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > > I wonder how much one really saves avoiding AN hardware... maybe the > > cost of a couple of nice dinners? > > > > Douwe > > MAYBE your life might depend on it;think about that! > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:19:02 AM PST US > From: Rcaprd@aol.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying NX770CG - Video > > First of all, I would like to thank the many folks who responded about > the first video I made. Your help was extremely valuable in the making of this > > final version. This has been a HUGE project for me, but I'm glad I did it. > It's one of those things that seems like it's never done. > > I finally finished 'Flying NX770CG', (I'm close to finishing 'Building > NX770CG'). For those that have never seen a Pietenpol fly, or for those who > have never been in one, this video is for you !! I put the viewer in the Pilot > > seat to give the sight, sound, and feel of what it's like flying Low & Slow. > > It's 1hr 50min long, and here are some of the scenes: > Engine start, taxi, and Detailed take off & landing sequences, with 8 or 9 > camera angles. > Some special effects. > Lots of Smokin' scenes. > Air to Air footage. > Background music to accompany many scenes. > Lots of Voice Over, explaining what's going on. > In air video of Cutting the Toilet Paper, Windmills, Lakes, Hot Air Balloons, > Chasing trains, pacing the shadow on the interstate. > Some of my 3100 mile cross country flight in '04. > River Run - down on the deck. > Detailed landing sequence. > > $20 > e-mail me direct, if you are interested. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:11:18 AM PST US > From: Tim Willis > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 > Pietenpol-List Digest List > > Source of AN bolts > > I think one of our site members directed us to a good source for inexpensive new AN bolts and other hardware. Take a look at www.airpartsinc.com in Kansas City, KS. While their catalog only shows sizes up to AN6-20 (3/8"-24), an obscure note on p.11 of their 2005 catalog says they stock up to AN10 (5/8" dia.). I would try them for bolts first. > > On the subject of hardness, you don't want steel parts that are tempered to great > hardness. I recall dropping a 3 inch dia. tool steel form tool (it made > the shape of a unique part). I had the tool hardened professionally to maximum > (Rockwell) hardness. It shattered on the concrete from a three foot drop. > That's a good argument for not hardening your own stuff, or considering the application > very thoroghly. It was great for my app., but required special handling. > > > Case hardening the first few thousandths of any bolt can be a good idea, though, > for you don't want the threads to be soft and work against each other. As > pointed out, rolled threads are stronger than cut threads, in part because they > are "work hardened" by the process. I suspect that AN bolts are not only rolled > threads, but may be case hardened, as well. > > At a practical level, while all this discussion is worthwhile, I plan to leave > it to the pros and buy AN parts. In a pinch I would not hesitate to use other > quality bolts for a while. > > The practice of changing specific bolts annually is a new thought for inexpeienced > me. Is that considered "good practice" or is that someone's (e.g., the > FAA) requirement? > > Tim > > > --------------------------------- > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:11:18 AM PST US > From: Tim Willis > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 > Pietenpol-List Digest List > > Source of AN bolts > > I think one of our site members directed us to a good source for inexpensive new AN bolts and other hardware. Take a look at www.airpartsinc.com in Kansas City, KS. While their catalog only shows sizes up to AN6-20 (3/8"-24), an obscure note on p.11 of their 2005 catalog says they stock up to AN10 (5/8" dia.). I would try them for bolts first. > > On the subject of hardness, you don't want steel parts that are tempered to great > hardness. I recall dropping a 3 inch dia. tool steel form tool (it made > the shape of a unique part). I had the tool hardened professionally to maximum > (Rockwell) hardness. It shattered on the concrete from a three foot drop. > That's a good argument for not hardening your own stuff, or considering the application > very thoroghly. It was great for my app., but required special handling. > > > Case hardening the first few thousandths of any bolt can be a good idea, though, > for you don't want the threads to be soft and work against each other. As > pointed out, rolled threads are stronger than cut threads, in part because they > are "work hardened" by the process. I suspect that AN bolts are not only rolled > threads, but may be case hardened, as well. > > At a practical level, while all this discussion is worthwhile, I plan to leave > it to the pros and buy AN parts. In a pinch I would not hesitate to use other > quality bolts for a while. > > The practice of changing specific bolts annually is a new thought for inexpeienced > me. Is that considered "good practice" or is that someone's (e.g., the > FAA) requirement? > > Tim > > > --------------------------------- > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:05:41 PM PST US > From: "w b evans" > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 > "Pietenpol-List Digest List" > > My understanding is that there is hardness and toughness. > I read where AN bolts can be bent into a knot , cold, without breaking. Don't > think a grade 8 will do that. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Willis > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List Digest List > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 11:10 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 > > > Source of AN bolts > > I think one of our site members directed us to a good source for inexpensive new AN bolts and other hardware. Take a look at www.airpartsinc.com in Kansas City, KS. While their catalog only shows sizes up to AN6-20 (3/8"-24), an obscure note on p.11 of their 2005 catalog says they stock up to AN10 (5/8" dia.). I would try them for bolts first. > > On the subject of hardness, you don't want steel parts that are tempered to great > hardness. I recall dropping a 3 inch dia. tool steel form tool (it made > the shape of a unique part). I had the tool hardened professionally to maximum > (Rockwell) hardness. It shattered on the concrete from a three foot drop. > That's a good argument for not hardening your own stuff, or considering the application > very thoroghly. It was great for my app., but required special handling. > > > Case hardening the first few thousandths of any bolt can be a good idea, though, > for you don't want the threads to be soft and work against each other. As > pointed out, rolled threads are stronger than cut threads, in part because they > are "work hardened" by the process. I suspect that AN bolts are not only rolled > threads, but may be case hardened, as well. > > At a practical level, while all this discussion is worthwhile, I plan to leave > it to the pros and buy AN parts. In a pinch I would not hesitate to use other > quality bolts for a while. > > The practice of changing specific bolts annually is a new thought for inexpeienced > me. Is that considered "good practice" or is that someone's (e.g., the > FAA) requirement? > > Tim > > > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:30:49 PM PST US > From: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" > pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grade 8 vs AN > INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" > > I think I remember reading in the Sacramento Sky Ranch tech book that AN > bolts have the threads actually pressed into the bolt vs store bought grade > 8's that have the threads cut into the bolt shank. Think the tensile, > elongation and hardness are the same but this issue of how the threads are > cut or pressed is critical for failure. Sky Ranch also has a good section > on the amount of torque needed to get the bolt to right elongation for > maximum clamping without overstressing to failure. Recommend this book to > anyone building a homebuilt. > Gordon Bowen > Homer AK > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: w b evans wbeevans@verizon.net > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 > > > My understanding is that there is hardness and toughness. > I read where AN bolts can be bent into a knot , cold, without breaking. > Don't think a grade 8 will do that. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Willis > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List Digest List > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 11:10 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/03/05 > > > Source of AN bolts > > I think one of our site members directed us to a good source for > inexpensive new AN bolts and other hardware. Take a look at > www.airpartsinc.com in Kansas City, KS. While their catalog only shows > sizes up to AN6-20 (3/8"-24), an obscure note on p.11 of their 2005 catalog > says they stock up to AN10 (5/8" dia.). I would try them for bolts first. > > On the subject of hardness, you don't want steel parts that are tempered > to great hardness. I recall dropping a 3 inch dia. tool steel form tool > (it made the shape of a unique part). I had the tool hardened > professionally to maximum (Rockwell) hardness. It shattered on the > concrete from a three foot drop. That's a good argument for not hardening > your own stuff, or considering the application very thoroghly. It was > great for my app., but required special handling. > > Case hardening the first few thousandths of any bolt can be a good idea, > though, for you don't want the threads to be soft and work against each > other. As pointed out, rolled threads are stronger than cut threads, in > part because they are "work hardened" by the process. I suspect that AN > bolts are not only rolled threads, but may be case hardened, as well. > > At a practical level, while all this discussion is worthwhile, I plan to > leave it to the pros and buy AN parts. In a pinch I would not hesitate to > use other quality bolts for a while. > > The practice of changing specific bolts annually is a new thought for > inexpeienced me. Is that considered "good practice" or is that someone's > (e.g., the FAA) requirement? > > Tim > > > -- > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:42:59 PM PST US > From: "John and Phyllis Smoyer" > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying NX770CG - Video > > Dear Chuck, > I'd be very interested in the "building of" video. Please let me know whenever > it's available. Thanks. > John Smoyer > jpsmoyer@verizon.net > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:02:13 PM PST US > From: Rcaprd@aol.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying NX770CG - Video > > In a message dated 12/4/2005 7:43:38 PM Central Standard Time, > jpsmoyer@verizon.net writes: > Dear Chuck, > I'd be very interested in the "building of" video. Please let me know > whenever it's available. Thanks. > John Smoyer > John, > I will try to remember to let you know when it's done, but it probably not be > done before Christmas. I'm going into great detail about the construction. > Ya just can't imiagine how much time it takes me to do this video stuff !! I > will certainly post it to the Matronix Pietenpol Group, when it's done. > > Chuck Gantzer > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:36 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim adjustment update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" For anyone who is interested, I've fabricated and tried out an elevator trim mechanism (simple) using bead chain. The idea is that you pull the chain out to where the elevator is trimmed, then drop the chain into a notch to hold it there. The chain applies tension to a bungee that pulls on the elevator bellcrank in the tailcone. My findings: the bead chain I got from the hardware store is only good for about 12 lbs. pull, and the small chain "joiners" let go at even less than that... 8 lbs. Readings were taken with a "fish de-liar" type scale. The bungee sure makes a loud twang when the chain lets go ;o) Conclusion: abandon the bead chain since I can't find anything more robust. I'll be trying nylon parachute cord with knots tied in it, or something similar. I've found that it takes a couple of pounds' pull just to hold the weight of the elevator, with no air loads imposed. In lieu of cord with knots, I could do an aluminum bar with notches cut in it and may try that, too. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:53 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: trim adjustment update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle Why not run bungee all the way (no transition to bead chain) and replace the notch/notched aluminum bar/whatever with an open V cleat? Nice and simple..... http://www.chsmith.com.au/Sail.html Or transition the part that slips into the V cleat to some kind of "non" streachy line if needed..... Jim in Plano -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim adjustment update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" For anyone who is interested, I've fabricated and tried out an elevator trim mechanism (simple) using bead chain. The idea is that you pull the chain out to where the elevator is trimmed, then drop the chain into a notch to hold it there. The chain applies tension to a bungee that pulls on the elevator bellcrank in the tailcone. My findings: the bead chain I got from the hardware store is only good for about 12 lbs. pull, and the small chain "joiners" let go at even less than that... 8 lbs. Readings were taken with a "fish de-liar" type scale. The bungee sure makes a loud twang when the chain lets go ;o) Conclusion: abandon the bead chain since I can't find anything more robust. I'll be trying nylon parachute cord with knots tied in it, or something similar. I've found that it takes a couple of pounds' pull just to hold the weight of the elevator, with no air loads imposed. In lieu of cord with knots, I could do an aluminum bar with notches cut in it and may try that, too. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:41 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: trim adjustment update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright Oscar, How about light-weight chain; the links could be looped over a nail, providing nearly infinite adjustment. Jeff >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > >For anyone who is interested, I've fabricated and tried out an >elevator trim mechanism (simple) using bead chain. The idea is that >you pull the chain out to where the elevator is trimmed, then drop >the chain into a notch to hold it there. The chain applies tension >to a bungee that pulls on the elevator bellcrank in the tailcone. > >My findings: the bead chain I got from the hardware store is only >good for about 12 lbs. pull, and the small chain "joiners" let go at >even less than that... 8 lbs. Readings were taken with a "fish >de-liar" type scale. The bungee sure makes a loud twang when the >chain lets go ;o) Conclusion: abandon the bead chain since I can't >find anything more robust. I'll be trying nylon parachute cord with >knots tied in it, or something similar. I've found that it takes a >couple of pounds' pull just to hold the weight of the elevator, with >no air loads imposed. > >In lieu of cord with knots, I could do an aluminum bar with notches >cut in it and may try that, too. > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:45 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle Seems all I ever hear about is someong having to "hold some back pressure" on the stick.... Does the Pietenpol Air Camper EVER need down elevator on a "typical" flight? I know there's no way to say "never"....but generally speaking, could I get by with just an "UP" adjustment or will some down elevator be needed on a regular basis? JM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? From: "Phillips, Jack" Mine nearly always needs some down elevator trim. I installed a bellcrank spring trim system similar to Mike Cuy's (although my trim lever sticks up through the rear seat and is arranged so forward is nose down, aft is nose up trim). When flying solo, with nothing in my nose baggage compartment, I have the trim lever about 80% forward. When flying with a load in the front seat and in the baggage compartment, the trim lever need to be a bit aft of neutral. Incidentally, I use screen door springs and taoilet tank chain from Home Depot for my trim system. I don't think bungees are a great way to go because they don't have a linear spring rate and they tend to stretch over time. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle Seems all I ever hear about is someong having to "hold some back pressure" on the stick.... Does the Pietenpol Air Camper EVER need down elevator on a "typical" flight? I know there's no way to say "never"....but generally speaking, could I get by with just an "UP" adjustment or will some down elevator be needed on a regular basis? JM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:47 AM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: trim adjustment update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" Just make sure that what ever system you use, it can be overpowered for the day when you forget to set it for take off or any of a number of different situations. Though it might take work, you should be able to fly the airplane with the trim in the wrong position. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: trim adjustment update > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright > > Oscar, > > How about light-weight chain; the links could be looped over a nail, > providing nearly infinite adjustment. > > Jeff > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" >> >> >>For anyone who is interested, I've fabricated and tried out an elevator >>trim mechanism (simple) using bead chain. The idea is that you pull the >>chain out to where the elevator is trimmed, then drop the chain into a >>notch to hold it there. The chain applies tension to a bungee that pulls >>on the elevator bellcrank in the tailcone. >> >>My findings: the bead chain I got from the hardware store is only good for >>about 12 lbs. pull, and the small chain "joiners" let go at even less than >>that... 8 lbs. Readings were taken with a "fish de-liar" type scale. The >>bungee sure makes a loud twang when the chain lets go ;o) Conclusion: >>abandon the bead chain since I can't find anything more robust. I'll be >>trying nylon parachute cord with knots tied in it, or something similar. >>I've found that it takes a couple of pounds' pull just to hold the weight >>of the elevator, with no air loads imposed. >> >>In lieu of cord with knots, I could do an aluminum bar with notches cut in >>it and may try that, too. >> >>Oscar Zuniga >>San Antonio, TX >>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:26 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:56 PM PST US <28010042.1133807426263.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <28010042.1133807426263.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright Mine always needs down elevator, even with full fuel and a passenger. I think they're tail heavy. >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle > > >Seems all I ever hear about is someong having to "hold some back >pressure" on the stick.... > >Does the Pietenpol Air Camper EVER need down elevator on a "typical" >flight? I know there's no way to say "never"....but generally >speaking, could I get by with just an "UP" adjustment or will some >down elevator be needed on a regular basis? > >JM > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:34 PM PST US <8434738.1133811476515.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8434738.1133811476515.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? My flying often involves plumbing terms, like: "That was a really crappy landing, Jeff..." >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle >thanks very much Jack. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" >Sent: Dec 5, 2005 1:52 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? > >Mine nearly always needs some down elevator trim. I installed a >bellcrank spring trim system similar to Mike Cuy's (although my trim >lever sticks up through the rear seat and is arranged so forward is >nose down, aft is nose up trim). When flying solo, with nothing in >my nose baggage compartment, I have the trim lever about 80% >forward. When flying with a load in the front seat and in the >baggage compartment, the trim lever need to be a bit aft of neutral. > >Incidentally, I use screen door springs and taoilet tank chain from >Home Depot for my trim system. I don't think bungees are a great >way to go because they don't have a linear spring rate and they tend >to stretch over time. > >Jack Phillips > >NX899JP > >"Icarus Plummet" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:55 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? Mike, Have you any photos/pictures of your trim system? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? Mine nearly always needs some down elevator trim. I installed a bellcrank spring trim system similar to Mike Cuy's (although my trim lever sticks up through the rear seat and is arranged so forward is nose down, aft is nose up trim). When flying solo, with nothing in my nose baggage compartment, I have the trim lever about 80% forward. When flying with a load in the front seat and in the baggage compartment, the trim lever need to be a bit aft of neutral. Incidentally, I use screen door springs and taoilet tank chain from Home Depot for my trim system. I don't think bungees are a great way to go because they don't have a linear spring rate and they tend to stretch over time. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com"mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle Seems all I ever hear about is someong having to "hold some back pressure" on the stick.... Does the Pietenpol Air Camper EVER need down elevator on a "typical" flight? I know there's no way to say "never"....but generally speaking, could I get by with just an "UP" adjustment or will some down elevator be needed on a regular basis? JM HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:24 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim sketches --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Peter-- I have some sketches but none scanned. Basically I welded to mini-tabs or ears that look like about 1/10 the length of the bellcrank lever arm on the elevator pivot tube inside the fuselage aft of the pilots seat. I drilled a hole at the end of each tab or ear and just hooked that up via some light chains and hardware store springs to a 4130 lever arm that pivots to put a pull on either the up direction or down direction. I never put a detent or 'stop positions' on my lever (which is located under my left thigh under the seat) but installed a friction type knob which works good. Jack's setup is very nice and based upon the same principals as mine. I find that with 17 gallons of fuel up front she only starts to require forward stick after I burn off about 8 gallons. Any Piet that is tail heavy needs to move it's wing back or for the pilot (like me) to loose some weight:) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:37 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: trim sketches --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Mike, Thanks Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim sketches --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Peter-- I have some sketches but none scanned. Basically I welded to mini-tabs or ears that look like about 1/10 the length of the bellcrank lever arm on the elevator pivot tube inside the fuselage aft of the pilots seat. I drilled a hole at the end of each tab or ear and just hooked that up via some light chains and hardware store springs to a 4130 lever arm that pivots to put a pull on either the up direction or down direction. I never put a detent or 'stop positions' on my lever (which is located under my left thigh under the seat) but installed a friction type knob which works good. Jack's setup is very nice and based upon the same principals as mine. I find that with 17 gallons of fuel up front she only starts to require forward stick after I burn off about 8 gallons. Any Piet that is tail heavy needs to move it's wing back or for the pilot (like me) to loose some weight:) Mike C. -- -- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:31 PM PST US From: Jim Cooper Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying NX770CG Chuck G. I am interested in 'Building NX770CG' when it's ready, and would like to order 'Flying NX770CG' now. Please let me know how to pay you. Thanks, Jim Cooper blugoos1@direcway.com PS I still have the eyebrow patterns you mailed me at Corky's request a few months ago. We are almost finished with them. Let me know what you want me to do with them. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:24 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down Trim adjustment? As you all know, I dont own a Piet, but I love the plane... Well, This because my comment is not a hands on one about the Piet. But tail heavy is a No Fly until correct potential danger... Please check your CG and move the wing a little backwards. Try not to add lead, I have lost already 3 of my best pilot friends (two testing one new plane that they just moved the stabilizer to "compensate" the tail heavy condition and one in his own ultralight) In the sole pilot case, was in his airclub. After the oficial report, the cause was aft CG in an engine failure on take off, acording to the witnesses (all pilots) the plane lost power and even that they watch that the pilot instantly moved the elevator down, the plane continue until the stall and 1/4 spin to crash wing nose first... Getting the correct CG will make a great winter project... Saludos Gary Gower. Jeff Boatright wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright Mine always needs down elevator, even with full fuel and a passenger. I think they're tail heavy. >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle > > >Seems all I ever hear about is someong having to "hold some back >pressure" on the stick.... > >Does the Pietenpol Air Camper EVER need down elevator on a "typical" >flight? I know there's no way to say "never"....but generally >speaking, could I get by with just an "UP" adjustment or will some >down elevator be needed on a regular basis? > >JM > --------------------------------- Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:00 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Up AND Down trim adjustment? I don't have any mechanism to control the flippers for pitch trim. I use the Power Setting. I've got the C of G maintained in the envelope throughout the weight ranges, and simply pitch trim with Power. On some occasions, when the sun wouldn't wait up for me, I've had to add full power to get back to the airport before dusk, and had to hold forward stick. In order to adjust pitch trim to attain a different speed, I adjust the leading edge of the stabilizer with the turnbuckles. I've done it several times, and it is effective. However, I do have fixed trim tabs on the trailing edge of each flipper, angled down, holding the flipper up. Chuck G. NX770CG