Today's Message Index:
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1. 10:09 AM - Building Video (Rcaprd@aol.com)
2. 12:42 PM - Re: Building Video (Lou Wither)
3. 02:54 PM - Re: Building Video (Dick Navratil)
Message 1
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Well, the list is kind of slow, so I present to you a request for some
help. As most of you know, I'm putting together a Pietenpol Building Video, and
I want to make it as complete, and comprehensive as possible. I need some
help to hear what everyone thinks should be included in the video.
I'm going to include a detailed look at the plans. There has NEVER been
a set of plans, for ANY type of airplane, that does not have errors in them,
and in my humble opinion, I think the plans should NOT be changed. They fit
the era of the aircraft you are building, and are a part of the whole history of
the Pietenpol. Quite often, it is concluded that an error exists, but upon
further study, and some questions asked, the light bulb goes off, and it
becomes crystal clear. Granted there are errors in the plans, but given the
enormous amount of information that is included in the plans, the errors are not
that
many. Having said that, builders NEED to know what, and where the errors
are. They also need clarification in some areas. Done correctly, and with good
workmanship, in the 76 year history of the Pietenpol, there has NEVER been an
airframe failure (at least none that has been reported). I can make that
claim, because a couple years ago, I did an extensive, and exhaustive study=20of
all the NTSB accident reports, back as far as they go, found about 80 reports,
and NO airframe failures, if it was built to the plans.
Hence, the reason for this e-mail. I'd like to ask everyone who knows of
an area of the plans that are confusing, or has an error, to let the list
know.
Here are the things I've come up with:
1) The scarf splice shown on Dwg 5, shows the scarf to be horizontal. The
scarf should be a 12 to 1, as a reference to AC 43.13 publication.
2) The angle of the lift strut fitting, on Dwg 4 (lower left corner), and
Dwg 5 (at the bottom) should NOT be at the angle indicated. The angle should be
what ever the angle the lift strut is, so as to be in alignment with the lift
strut. This angle is determined by the length of the cabane struts, and is
on an individual airplane basis, because the length of the cabane struts are
altered so often.
3) The cabane strut fitting that bolts to the spar, on Dwg 4, (lower left
corner) is open to interpolation. It shows the a U strap around under the spar,
with a tab welded on each side, which is 3 pieces total for each fitting. If
you are not all that good of a weldor, then I think this fitting should be
built with two U straps, that fit inside each other.
4) The belly strap should be included at the front & rear, between the lift
strut / gear lug fittings. On Dwg 3 (lower left corner) it shows the tab
should be bent up 20=BA, but is should read closer to 30=BA, but again, this angle
is
determined by the length of the cabane struts.
5) The cross piece at the forward lower fuselage, shown to be a 3/4 X 3/4
spruce on Dwg 1(lower right hand portion of the page), is held short of going
all the way to the inside of the longerons, as shown on Dwg 6 (lower edge of the
page), it says "Cut off end of cross strut", to allow the inside engine mount
fitting to install on the inboard side of the longeron.
6) If you loft the dimension numbers of the rib Dwg 5, it makes a little
curve down on the top, just past the 50% chord. You should just blend that
little curve out.
7) I think there must be a dimension on the leading edge of the rudder, that
when added up, it causes the rudder to extend about 1/2" below the bottom of
the fuselage. When laying out the locations of the rudder hinges, you MUST
accommodate the thickness of the fabric on the top of the fuselage, top and
bottom of the horizontal stab, and the fabric on the bottom of the vertical=20stab,
BEFORE you locate the bottom rudder hinge.
These are some of the things I'm going show in my video. If anyone can think
of anything else that needs to be addressed in the plans, or anything about
building the airplane, please make the comment to the list, and lets talk about
it.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Building Video |
I think the most confusing thing in the build was not the errors in the plans but
the weight and balance. The weight and balance issue is a real problem and
it can not always be addressed by just moving the wing. I spoke to a few people
when I put mine together and I moved the engine (C-85) out 5" further than
shown on the motor mount drawing. I also moved the wing back 2" in the construction
process keeping my cabanes vertical. When it was all said in done my
weight came in not too bad (680 lbs) but my CG as built is only good really for
a 170 lb pilot when there is no fuel in the fuselage tank. I weigh considerably
more than that. That ultimately left me with some options, all of which
were not very attractive. A metal prop would take care of the problem (just doesn't
fit a Piet), ballast attached to the engine mount (current solution), or
reinstall the starter and generator that I initially didn't install (the future
solution). I think Piets should be hand proped,
but as
long as I have to haul extra weight I might just as well have it usefull.
Now that I am done, I pretty much enjoyed building to the plans, once I came
to that they had some errors. It make you think before you leap and that is the
beauty of building a plane to this type of plans. I maintain if someone want
cookie cutter build a RV, insert part A into slot B and rivet with type C.
Sounds pretty boring to me.
Lou Wither
N799LJ
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Building Video |
An addition
When making fixed gear leg fittings, as per Flying Glider Manual, increase dinmensions
to clear the ash brace on the floor.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building Video
Well, the list is kind of slow, so I present to you a request for some help.
As most of you know, I'm putting together a Pietenpol Building Video, and
I want to make it as complete, and comprehensive as possible. I need some help
to hear what everyone thinks should be included in the video.
I'm going to include a detailed look at the plans. There has NEVER been
a set of plans, for ANY type of airplane, that does not have errors in them, and
in my humble opinion, I think the plans should NOT be changed. They fit the
era of the aircraft you are building, and are a part of the whole history of
the Pietenpol. Quite often, it is concluded that an error exists, but upon further
study, and some questions asked, the light bulb goes off, and it becomes
crystal clear. Granted there are errors in the plans, but given the enormous
amount of information that is included in the plans, the errors are not that
many. Having said that, builders NEED to know what, and where the errors are.
They also need clarification in some areas. Done correctly, and with good
workmanship, in the 76 year history of the Pietenpol, there has NEVER been an
airframe failure (at least none that has been reported). I can make that claim,
because a couple years ago, I did an extensive, and exhaustive study of all
the NTSB accident reports, back as far as they go, found about 80 reports, and
NO airframe failures, if it was built to the plans.
Hence, the reason for this e-mail. I'd like to ask everyone who knows of
an area of the plans that are confusing, or has an error, to let the list know.
Here are the things I've come up with:
1) The scarf splice shown on Dwg 5, shows the scarf to be horizontal. The scarf
should be a 12 to 1, as a reference to AC 43.13 publication.
2) The angle of the lift strut fitting, on Dwg 4 (lower left corner), and Dwg
5 (at the bottom) should NOT be at the angle indicated. The angle should be
what ever the angle the lift strut is, so as to be in alignment with the lift
strut. This angle is determined by the length of the cabane struts, and is on
an individual airplane basis, because the length of the cabane struts are altered
so often.
3) The cabane strut fitting that bolts to the spar, on Dwg 4, (lower left corner)
is open to interpolation. It shows the a U strap around under the spar,
with a tab welded on each side, which is 3 pieces total for each fitting. If
you are not all that good of a weldor, then I think this fitting should be built
with two U straps, that fit inside each other.
4) The belly strap should be included at the front & rear, between the lift
strut / gear lug fittings. On Dwg 3 (lower left corner) it shows the tab should
be bent up 20=BA, but is should read closer to 30=BA, but again, this angle
is determined by the length of the cabane struts.
5) The cross piece at the forward lower fuselage, shown to be a 3/4 X 3/4 spruce
on Dwg 1(lower right hand portion of the page), is held short of going all
the way to the inside of the longerons, as shown on Dwg 6 (lower edge of the
page), it says "Cut off end of cross strut", to allow the inside engine mount
fitting to install on the inboard side of the longeron.
6) If you loft the dimension numbers of the rib Dwg 5, it makes a little curve
down on the top, just past the 50% chord. You should just blend that little
curve out.
7) I think there must be a dimension on the leading edge of the rudder, that
when added up, it causes the rudder to extend about 1/2" below the bottom of
the fuselage. When laying out the locations of the rudder hinges, you MUST accommodate
the thickness of the fabric on the top of the fuselage, top and bottom
of the horizontal stab, and the fabric on the bottom of the vertical stab,
BEFORE you locate the bottom rudder hinge.
These are some of the things I'm going show in my video. If anyone can think
of anything else that needs to be addressed in the plans, or anything about building
the airplane, please make the comment to the list, and lets talk about
it.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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