Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:31 AM - building video (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 11:41 AM - Re: building video (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
3. 11:49 AM - Re: Building Video (Waytogopiet@aol.com)
4. 12:17 PM - Re: Building Video (Philip Miller)
5. 12:36 PM - Re: Flying NX770CG - Video (Carl Vought)
6. 12:59 PM - Re: Flying NX770CG - Video (DOUGLAS BLACKBURN)
7. 02:02 PM - pesky elevator cable (Oscar Zuniga)
8. 03:57 PM - building video (Oscar Zuniga)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Chuck;
Noble undertaking! I wouldn't consider the following to be "errors" in the
plans, but they certainly have proven to need updating to make the plane
easier to understand how to build.
1. Many have pointed out, Mike Cuy in his video especially, that many of the
fittings are dimensioned so close that the bolt tabs are too close to the
fabric or wood to allow the bolt and nut to be installed readily, much less
get a socket and wrench on them. There isn't any exhaustive list of which
fittings this applies to, but generally speaking, anything with a mounting
tab protruding from a finished surface, could stand to have a bit of extra
length.
2. Many, many of the clarification questions asked here have to do with
"what does 12 gauge fence wire convert to if I'm using 7x19 aircraft cable",
and the like. Metal gauges, turnbuckle callouts, tension wire nomenclature,
and a few bits and pieces of old-time materials that are scarce or
unavailable, such as the streamline tubing that the plans call for. It
isn't difficult to cross-reference to a newer material, but it could stand
some updating.
3. Can anybody explain why the old Flying & Glider manuals show the plywood
seat back for the front cockpit, on the FRONT of the framing, while the
newer plans show it on the BACK? 41CC is built per plans, with the plywood
on the BACK of the framing (facing the rear cockpit) and I'm going to add a
cushion to that because it's uncomfortable for the passenger to lean against
the framing members.
PS- I just started watching Chuck's "Flying NX770CG" video and it is a hoot!
Excellent! I will say this, though... Chuck goes through the takeoff roll
over and over from several different camera angles and it makes it seem like
his airplane requires about 4000 ft. of grass to takeoff from ;o) Every
Piet lover has to have this video!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: building video |
In a message dated 12/18/2005 12:33:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
PS- I just started watching Chuck's "Flying NX770CG" video and it is a hoot!
Excellent! I will say this, though... Chuck goes through the takeoff roll
over and over from several different camera angles and it makes it seem like
his airplane requires about 4000 ft. of grass to takeoff from ;o) Every
Piet lover has to have this video!
Where can we get a copy of this video?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Building Video |
In a message dated 12/17/2005 1:11:17 PM Central Standard Time,
Rcaprd@aol.com writes:
There has NEVER been a set of plans, for ANY type of airplane, that does not
have errors in them, and in my humble opinion, I think the plans should NOT be
changed.
Excellent comment....and presented, as you have with a solution to the
acknowledged problem. Don Hicks
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Building Video |
Chuck,
The plans have all the metal parts in gauge thicknesses. Consulting the machinists
equivalents, they seem to fall between the current available thicknesses
of 4130. Assuming that one would use 4130 aircraft steel for all those fittings,
what is the rule of conversion? Go to the next size up, down, or round to
the nearest? I can think of convincing arguments for any of them.
Size up - safer, and 4130 is more brittle than cold rolled steel.
Size down - The Pietenpol is an over-engineered plane. BHP said as much in the
Flying and Glider Manual.
Round to the nearest - stays as close to plans as possible.
I'd also like to see about pulleys. The plans call for 2" pulleys for the controls,
but AC 43.13 and Tony Bingelis would preach against such small sized pulleys.
The loads shown for pulleys don't seem out of line. Sizing up to larger
pulleys would mean changing the angles for the brackets, especially the bracket
that holds the pulleys that guide cable to the aileron horns.
And about that pesky elevator cable - the one that seems to rub the top LE on every
Piet I've seen; is there a solution that doesn't do that? Can't you extend
the bellcrank so that the cable exits in the fuse are high enough not to cause
that rubbing?
What about brakes? I've seen hydraulic, mechanical disk, drum, and band brakes.
No brakes in the plans, but that would hardly suffice on our modern ramp full
of very expensive airplanes bordering narrow taxiways that you have to S-turn
your way through. And Tailwheels. You can't have a skid. And I've seen a
lot of very different solutions for tailwheels.
The tube LG given on the plans are hardly ever used to my knowledge. Why? If
you are going with tube gear, there seem to be much better configurations available.
What are the trade-offs?
Plank seats. Lotsa folks complain about them. Couldn't one make a frame of wood
and sling a sheet of thin kevlar, impregnate it with fast epoxy, encase one's
butt in a garbage bag smeared with parafin and just sit on it? Not so good
for the front seat, but it sure makes the pilot's life a lot more comfortable!
And what about Wing LE covering. The plans are somewhat non-specific. I've seen
Aluminum and plywood used. I would imagine you could use some prepreg bendable
composite too if you wanted light and strong.
The bellcrank bearing. The plans don't give enough detail, or if they do, you
wouldn't want to use bearings like that now. Really Good bearing are now available
and cheap. What size?
I would like to see the plans updated. Not so much to correct errors, but to fulfill
omissions, and make compliant to our modern rules and environment. I'd
like to have the LG angles and W&B solutions for more than the Ford Model A.
Even the Corvair LG and W&B data on the plans is only good if you are using the
blower on top - which nobody does any more - and the LG info is very imprecise.
Variances will always occur. What is needed is a best-practices approach
to derive such information in a clear manner, set down in one place where the
nomenclature, data reference points, and assumptions are consistent and spelled
out.
Michael Cuy's video mentions the need to extend the tabs.
Perhaps I'm just nitpicking, but all of these things leave me scratching my head.
Can I build something with this many unknowns? My hats off to all of you
who have. And this list goes a long way to creating a place where the questions
can be answered. Without it, and all of you, I don't think I would attempt
it.
Phil Miller
Altadena, CA
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying NX770CG - Video |
Hey Chuck....Yes, I want a copy of your video. Where can I send my check? Does
$20 include shipping? That's a very reasonable price...Any plans for publishing
it on DVD? You've made a very important contribution to Pietdom...Good work....Carl
Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying NX770CG - Video
First of all, I would like to thank the many folks who responded about the
first video I made. Your help was extremely valuable in the making of this
final version. This has been a HUGE project for me, but I'm glad I did it. It's
one of those things that seems like it's never done.
I finally finished 'Flying NX770CG', (I'm close to finishing 'Building NX770CG').
For those that have never seen a Pietenpol fly, or for those who have
never been in one, this video is for you !! I put the viewer in the Pilot
seat to give the sight, sound, and feel of what it's like flying Low & Slow.
It's 1hr 50min long, and here are some of the scenes:
Engine start, taxi, and Detailed take off & landing sequences, with 8 or 9 camera
angles.
Some special effects.
Lots of Smokin' scenes.
Air to Air footage.
Background music to accompany many scenes.
Lots of Voice Over, explaining what's going on.
In air video of Cutting the Toilet Paper, Windmills, Lakes, Hot Air Balloons,
Chasing trains, pacing the shadow on the interstate.
Some of my 3100 mile cross country flight in '04.
River Run - down on the deck.
Detailed landing sequence.
$20
e-mail me direct, if you are interested.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flying NX770CG - Video |
Carl,
A DVD is what you will get. That is what I received. Great fun to sit and watch
after a hard day at the office/workplace!!!!!
Doug Blackburn
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Vought<mailto:carbarvo@knology.net>
Any plans for publishing it on DVD?
Message 7
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| Subject: | pesky elevator cable |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Phil mentioned the matter of the elevator cables rubbing the leading edge of
the horizontal stabilizer, and that most Piets seem to have that condition.
Not John Dilatush's "Mountain Piet"!
Check out the pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
(second picture from the bottom) and you'll find that engineer John studied
the geometries of the bellcranks, hinge points, and cables and built his
such that everything stays true as it goes about its "four-bar linkage"
motions. This is one fix that should be easy to figure out for those with
the luxury of starting from scratch. Myself, with retensioning the tail
rigging after the repairs to 41CC, I *almost* started to tension the lower
aileron cables to match the uppers, but quickly realized that I'd put the
controls in a bind when I pull the stick back if I did that.
But they fly just fine with the setup 'per plans' and a section of clear
plastic tubing over the upper aileron cables where they contact the LE of
the HS to prevent scuffing the paint.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Well, as long as we're piling onto good old Chuck "Baby Oil" Gantzer with
things to think about for his building video, here's more good information.
Some is in the way of tips, some gives alternate ways to do the same thing,
some is clarification "British style". It's from the UK Piet builders'
website, at http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/buildersnotes/fuznotes.htm . On
that page if you scroll down to "Chris and Fran Barley's Fuselage Notes"
there is some good insight and clarification on some things.
On a cold and rainy day you can spend quite a bit of time perusing the photo
gallery that the Brits have on their website. Just go to their main page,
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/default.htm , and click on 'Photo Gallery'.
For something really nifty, look closely at the image on Peter Hill's image
page (UK Projects) at
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=48&pos=1 to
see the tubing bracket that they used to install passenger cockpit shoulder
harnesses onto. It conceals behind the pilot's instrument panel, doesn't
interfere with any of the cables, and provides a very secure shoulder strap
mounting. There is a similar one on G-BYZY utilizing a single-point
shoulder harness; see image at
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=6 or go
to the images of G-BYZY.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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