---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/21/05: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:48 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 12/20/05 (Tim Willis) 2. 06:48 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 12/20/05 (Tim Willis) 3. 06:57 AM - Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR (Tim Willis) 4. 06:57 AM - Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR (Tim Willis) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR (Jim Markle) 6. 07:49 AM - A bit more on: the builder of Piet NX497AR (Jim Markle) 7. 09:30 AM - Re: A bit more on: the builder of Piet NX497AR (TRichmo9@aol.com) 8. 05:06 PM - Re: Building Video (Rick Holland) 9. 06:17 PM - Re: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR () 10. 06:51 PM - Wing strut fittings, etc. (Graham Hansen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:07 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 12/20/05 Pietenpol-List Digest List Guys, This discussion is very rewarding. Thanks. Tim Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:07 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 12/20/05 Pietenpol-List Digest List Guys, This discussion is very rewarding. Thanks. Tim Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:29 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR Pietenpol-List Digest List I understand that the builder of a blue Piet, number NX497AR, has done some remarkable things with a particular auto carb. I'd like to contact the builder. If anyone knows who this is, or if there is a Piet registry (forgive my ignorance), please reply. Thanks, Tim Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:29 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR Pietenpol-List Digest List I understand that the builder of a blue Piet, number NX497AR, has done some remarkable things with a particular auto carb. I'd like to contact the builder. If anyone knows who this is, or if there is a Piet registry (forgive my ignorance), please reply. Thanks, Tim Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:37 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:57 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: A bit more on: the builder of Piet NX497AR DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:23 AM PST US From: TRichmo9@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A bit more on: the builder of Piet NX497AR jim call me at home tonight tom ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:10 PM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Video As has been mentioned on this group before, someone wrote an article I think in an EAA magazine in 54 about Bernie including an interview. When asked what changes he recommended to the design one item was: "Where the flying struts are fastened to the wing, slant the wing fittings* at about the slant of the flying struts." *On 12/20/05, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/20/2005 10:29:45 AM Central Standard Time, > Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com writes: > > Chuck, the things I remember being flawed were the isometric drawings > showing the compression struts between the spars at the lift strut attach > points. The drawings show them in line vertically, but if you mount the > lift strut fittings as shown in the plans, the strap fittings interfere with > the compression struts. I made my lift strut fittings per the plans (I'l > explain why below) and had to offset the compression struts to clear them. > > On your item #2, I was planning to do as you did (and most people would > do, since most modern airplanes do so) and make the lift strut fitting strap > in line with the strut, so the strut would not impose a moment (torque) on > the spar. I assumed that BHP designed it the way he did out of ignorance. > Then I decided to do a little stress analysis to see just how much "better" > I could design it than Bernard did. To my surprise, I found that the > fitting as designed by BHP actually decreased the bending moment in the > spars to the extent that by building the fittings to his design, the wings > can withstand almost a full G more than they can if the fittings are in line > with the struts! The ultimate loading (with a 1050 lb gross weight) goes > from 4 G's to 4.9 G's > > Jack, > You bring up a Very interesting point here. Bernard Harold > Pietenpol's design genius is profound, so who am I to question it ?? This > includes the Bellcrank. However, for 9 years now, I have been wondering > why on earth Bernard would design the lift strut fittings at that angle. It > just seems to me that with the constant positive / negative loads imposed on > those fittings, applying the moment of torque would eventually wallow out > the holes in the wood spars, even with the 1" strips of wood on each side of > the fittings, and the strap welded across the top between the two straps. > Now, after hearing of your stress analysis, I ran the scenario through my > brain again. Be warned: This could be the Irish Beer talking... > > Here is what my brain came up with: > Placing the Lift Strut Spar Fittings in alignment with the Lift struts > (not per plans), and adding G load causes the lift struts to be in tension, > and the wing panel outboard of the lift strut fitting will flex upward. > Placing the Lift Strut Spar Fittings at the angle called out in the > plans, with the piece welded across the top, (as per plans), and adding G > load causes the lift strut to be in tension, however, the moment torque > applied to the fittings will tend to cause the outboard wing panel to be > pulled down. Could this be the reason it can withstand almost 1 G more load > before failure ??? > Maybe the ultimate load is higher with the B.H.P. design angle, but > the drawback is that the fittings will eventually loosen up. I doubt it > would cause an immediate failure, but what would be immediate is a change in > the Angle of Incidence, causing a wing heavy condition in flight. Something > to keep a very close eye on. > Jack: In your stress analysis, specifically, what was it that failed > ?? Forgive my skepticism, Jack, but I think it would be Very helpful if > you could run those numbers again, and / or some of you other engineers out > there to run these numbers on the angle of the lift strut fittings, and see > if they agree. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:51 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hi, I remembered a Blue Piet on Mr. Wynne's site. Check out this link. It mentions the gentleman's name and William Wynne might be able to help contact him (or you could poke around his site and see if there's a page that goes into detail on the blue Piet's engine ...and I think he does) http://flycorvair.com/cc9a.html > > From: Tim Willis > Date: 2005/12/21 Wed PM 02:57:15 GMT > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com, > Pietenpol-List Digest List > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for the builder of Piet NX497AR > > I understand that the builder of a blue Piet, number NX497AR, has done some remarkable things with a particular auto carb. > > I'd like to contact the builder. If anyone knows who this is, or if there is a Piet registry (forgive my ignorance), please reply. > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:29 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing strut fittings, etc. Rick Holland, I think you are referring to a post I made some time ago in which I quoted Bernard Pietenpol's letter to the EAA Experimenter dated May 1956 (Wow! almost fifty years ago.). I have my well-worn copy before me and will quote again what BHP said about changes to his design: "As I don't have the time to change the plans, only the following changes are recommended. In making up the landing gear fittings, make the strap go way across the bottom. Where the flying struts are fastened to the wing, slant the wing fittings at about the slant of the flying struts. Cub wing fittings would work swell. Some sort of stop should be put on the controls." "If a 65 HP engine is used, make the fuselage just 6 inches longer in front, and make the engine mount fittings go back at least 3 inches further on the longeron. A complete Cub landing gear could be used to advantage." Regarding the longer fuselage, BHP goes on to say: "I built one with a foot longer fuselage, but that was too much--does not handle good in a steep slip." On the strength of his letter, I incorporated all the changes BHP recommended and they worked well for me. Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN