Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - Re: seat belts/harness. (Sterling)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: help with instrument routing (Harvey Rule)
3. 08:17 AM - Sitka spruce pricing? (Michael Turrell)
4. 08:58 AM - Re: Sitka spruce pricing? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
5. 09:14 AM - Thanks for Prop Response (Isablcorky@aol.com)
6. 09:21 AM - Re: seat belts/harness. (Mark Blackwell)
7. 11:31 AM - Re:Sitka spruce availability (Michael Turrell)
8. 11:32 AM - Flying NX770CG ()
9. 03:45 PM - Re: Re:Sitka spruce availability (Jack T. Textor)
10. 04:05 PM - Steve (IE B-17 video) (walt evans)
11. 06:11 PM - Re: Re:Sitka spruce availability (Dick Navratil)
12. 07:11 PM - Re: Flying NX770CG (dmott9@aol.com)
13. 07:16 PM - Re: SHOULDER HARNESS (Kip and Beth Gardner)
14. 10:48 PM - Re: seat belts/harness. Safety (maybe out of theme, Delete?) (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: seat belts/harness. |
Gary:
Had this guy had a better way to strap himself in, he would have not required surgery
to his face. He failed to control his airplane in a shallow turn and he
screwed up, but still a small harness would have prevented his face from impacting
the panel. Needless to say, he managed to walk away from the wreck, but
he is disfigured for life. Better planning and flying skills would have prevented
this, and a small harness would kept his face from slamming into the panel.
My Cessna and my Piper Cherokee all had some absorbant material on the panel, but
the Pietenpol this chap was flying was typical to plans and the panel was unforgiving
to a facial impact.
My dad first gave me flying lessons when I was 14 years old in a Twin Bonanza back
in 1965, and he always strapped me in good. Yes, I learned to not panic and
fly the airplane regardless of conditions, and yes I have had forced landings
without incidence, but the extra margin of safety afforded by a simple harness
in a Pietenpol is on my list.
No, I won't have a ballistic parachute (too heavy and expensive) but I might dangle
a rabbits foot on the panel of my aircamper for good luck.
Sterling
5TA6
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness.
Hi Sterling,
Lets face it.... Airplanes are NOT designed to crash,,, The important thing
is to become proficient while flying and learn how your plane reacts in any emergency..
I say this because the human body only resists a limited amount of sudden impact
G's harness or not you might not survive a severe impact, but at list safety
harnessed to your seat :-).
Planes out of control are capable to add lots of speed VERY FAST before impact,
they are FALLING down... So the more important thing is to fly it down as
under control as much as our experience will allow us.
Newbies pilots think that BRS and Safety Harness will save their life, Bahhh
only learning and practicing emergency procedures will.
Fly it always untill is taxing to the platform ;-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com> wrote:
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Douwe...
I don't think anyone on this list will argue with you and most of us will say
safety is no hang-up...
I saw a Pietenpol last year that had been in a stall accident about 100 feet
off the ground whilst the pilot was trying to return to the grass strip h e
had just taken off from, when learning a presidential TFR was in effect at Crawford
(not too far from Waco.) The pilot's face impacted the panel and although
I didn't see the chap's face, I hate to think what it looked like after the
impact. The aftermath was alarming. The panel was smashed up pretty good from
the fellow's face and this pilot only had a seat belt in his Piet.
My Piet only has a seat belt setup (I bought it as a project) and I plan on
going back into the fuselage to attach cables to the tail (much in the same way
you have described) in order to fabricate a shoulder harness. An A&P/IA suggested
this same method to me for attaching the shoulder harness.
I am confident my wife would leave me if my face got any uglier, thus the reason
for wanting the shoulder harness in my A ir Camper.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness
Ken,
I guess we all have our little "hang-ups" and safety harness is one of mine.
I've probably overengineered mine, but with that panel so close to my face,
it gives me more peace of mind.
I've fashioned a glass seat bottom with a scoop for my rump which is not
only much more comfortable, it also drops me down almost two inches into the cockpit.
Now, if I run the harness out the top of the turtle deck, the angle is
right and would minimize any spine compression, which is a possibility if the
harness originates much lower than one's shoulders.
I welded up a very light tubular pylon that mounts just inside the turtle
deck, to which my harness bolts. Then a cable runs from that bolt, back to the
tailskid mounting area.
If I remember correctly, the pilot's seat belt bolts through both the vertical
member with some ash blocking.
The passenger seat belt bolts through the bottom crossmember and through
the metal strap that runs between gear fittings on the bottom of the fuse.
I am planning on snapping my passenger's harness to the rear X bracing (rods
in my case), as this should spread any load between many fittings, but we'll
see if my inspector lets it go. That's a really hard spot to find a good anchor.
I do have some shots and drawings somewhere from England of a pretty nice
Piet installation. you'd have to plan very early since it really must be
fitte d while the fuse is in the works. if you want, email me and I'll TRY to
find them.
Douwe
douweblumberg@earthlink.net
Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it!
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: help with instrument routing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
What I ment was ,I will use domes and eye rings.
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
>
>Good idea about those eye rings on the corners;thanks.I will use domes.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
>Vander Voort
>Sent: January 6, 2006 2:05 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
><hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
>I use snap buttons (domes?) in between and eye rings in corners which
>are
>secured with a safety pin through a dowel pin
>
>Snap buttons or velcro alone might not be enough, if your front cover
>comes
>of it might obstruct your vision (right when you need it most - Murphy's
>law)
>
>Cover is made of Vinyl (imitation leather)
>
>
>Hans
>
>
>
>
> <harvey.rule@bell
>
> .ca>
>
> Sent by:
>To
> owner-pietenpol-l <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> ist-server@matron
>cc
> ics.com
>
>
>Subject
> RE: Pietenpol-List: help with
>
> 01/06/2006 11:57 instrument routing
>
> AM
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Would velcro and leather work for a cover or would domes be better?
>
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
>Holland
>Sent: January 6, 2006 12:15 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing
>
>The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold
>weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit.
>On 1/5/06, HVandervoo@aol.com <HVandervoo@aol.com> wrote:
>Douwe,
>
>I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the
>Tachometer.
>It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short.
>Plus it saves space on the rear panel.
>
>Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is
>easily
>visible.
>
>Hans
>
>
>--
>Rick Holland
>
>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Sitka spruce pricing? |
Question gentleman.What would one expect to pay for sitka spruce per board foot
in the rough kiln dried.I am a cabinet maker so I have all the equipment needed
to dimention the rough lumber into the finished sizes as called for in the
plans.There is a sawmill in Ontario Canada that has 2" X 6" X up to 16' long
boards that were kiln dried for $12.50 per board foot Canadian,which is about
$10.40 US. dollars .I would be able to pick this up so shipping costs are not
an issue.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards Mike Turrell
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Sitka spruce pricing? |
Check with Edensaw in Washington. I paid $8.50 for 2x6 16ft vertical grain,
kiln dried. Bought 6. Bundled and shipped to Louisiana about $140. Beautiful
lumber. Sitka Spruce.
I also bought for 41CC Douglas Fit from same company at $4.50. If I built
another, which I won't, I think I'd go back to DF if I could get the same
quality as before. Hopes this helps.
Corky in Louisiana
Message 5
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Subject: | Thanks for Prop Response |
Pieters,
Mr. Dick Nelson, a prosperous oil producer, old car enthusiaste, pilot and
real fine guy asked me to help him find a prop for his Pietenpol. It is not
completed. Has to cover the wing etc. He is building a large arena type building
for his old car museum. He now owns 4 or 5 hundred at last count and wants
to hang his Piet from the ceiling because it has a Model B engine installed to
let visitors know that Ford engines powered more than automobiles. One offer
was accepted so thanks all of you for your help.
Corky
Do not archive
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: seat belts/harness. |
Actually the human body can withstand a great deal for very short durations. Race
car impact have been documented to over 100 G's without injury to a driver,
with the driver properly restrained. Now airplanes have the downward load factor
to contend with which is a huge difference, but it is amazing just how tough
the body is at times and how fragile it can be at other.
Airplanes actually are designed with quite a bit of consideration for accidents
and accident prevention. Strength, where you run wires and fuel lines what you
cover your airplane with, how you cover your seat, and a host of any of a number
of decisions you make during building will effect just how well an airplane
holds up in an accident. From the looks of it for the technology of his day,
the Piet did quite well. That does not mean that if there is an improvement
out there we shouldn't take advantage of it.
I hope we see more chutes out there but that is not the end all be all. The one
statement you made I couldn't agree with more is to fly the airplane all the
way to the ground if its still flyable and you are still in it. A controlled
aircraft gives the occupants a great chance of survival, but an out of control
one makes the chances very slim.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness.
Hi Sterling,
Lets face it.... Airplanes are NOT designed to crash,,, The important thing
is to become proficient while flying and learn how your plane reacts in any emergency..
I say this because the human body only resists a limited amount of sudden impact
G's harness or not you might not survive a severe impact, but at list safety
harnessed to your seat :-).
Planes out of control are capable to add lots of speed VERY FAST before impact,
they are FALLING down... So the more important thing is to fly it down as
under control as much as our experience will allow us.
Newbies pilots think that BRS and Safety Harness will save their life, Bahhh
only learning and practicing emergency procedures will.
Fly it always untill is taxing to the platform ;-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re:Sitka spruce availability |
Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade Sitka any
longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to quality.I was told
that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would be considerably more
than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so I will keep looking for
the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western Canada that I have to
look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been told ;-)
Regards,Mike
Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
Hi,
Last night I got my video from Chuck and I'm really glad I have it. For a new
builder who hasn't even actually seen the plane I'm building other than static
photos this was incredibly inspiring. This will get lots of play time in my
house if my project should happen to stall. A real kick in the pants to go out
to the shop and "Gitt'r Done" so I can fly my own.
Thanks for all the hard work Chuck! You obviously put your heart into this.
Glenn
Message 9
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Subject: | Re:Sitka spruce availability |
Mike I purchased some rough cut 1" spruce at McCormick Lumber in Madison last year. It Planed to 3/4". I think it was $4.50 a board foot. It had to pick through a lot to get decent stuff. It was dirty and played hell with my planer blades, Their 1 1/2 stock was pretty poor. Their web is http://www.mccormicklumber.com/index.htm. When talking with Andy, I don't believe he will ever order any more stock.
Jack Textor
Vice President
Palmer Group
515-225-7000
www.thepalmergroup.com
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Michael Turrell
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability
Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade Sitka any
longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to quality.I was told
that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would be considerably more
than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so I will keep looking for
the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western Canada that I have to
look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been told ;-)
Regards,Mike
Message 10
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Subject: | Steve (IE B-17 video) |
Steve,
Few days ago while visiting my Mom in the nursing home, met a mother and "son"
who was visiting a resident. It turns out that this "son" who I thought was in
his 60's, was her husband in his 80's. Great guy. Said that in 1941 he was a
crew member on a B-17. Thought of your video, and today made a CD of it and
delivered it to him at the home visiting his wife. He was as happy as a clam.
Said he'd watch it on his son-in-laws computer. Promised I'd take him flying
in the Piet in the spring.
Thanks for your efforts. You did good!
Ain't Life Grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 11
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Subject: | Re:Sitka spruce availability |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I've had very good luck with McCormack. Their people hve been very patient
with me picking thru their stock and I've found excellent quality in the
past.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability
Mike I purchased some rough cut 1" spruce at McCormick Lumber in Madison
last year. It Planed to 3/4". I think it was $4.50 a board foot. It had
to pick through a lot to get decent stuff. It was dirty and played hell
with my planer blades, Their 1 1/2 stock was pretty poor. Their web is
http://www.mccormicklumber.com/index.htm. When talking with Andy, I don't
believe he will ever order any more stock.
Jack Textor
Vice President
Palmer Group
515-225-7000
www.thepalmergroup.com
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Michael Turrell
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability
Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade
Sitka any longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to
quality.I was told that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would
be considerably more than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so
I will keep looking for the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western
Canada that I have to look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been
told ;-)
Regards,Mike
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Flying NX770CG |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dmott9@aol.com
Hi,
I too have received my DVD from Chuch and last night watched it.
Brings back memories of when I was
learning to fly in a C-150. I could see and feel the movement of the
airplane and the wind. It is a great
video. I love the various angles. You must have shot an awful lot more
hours of video that what is on the DVD.
I would have liked to have seen some more comparisons of the Model A vs
the A-65 as well as seeing the
Model A up close running etc. Loved the different sections.
Another THANKS CHUCK from me ! (Check got mailed 1-6-06) This was a
birthday present from me to me !
Can't wait for the construction video !
Dennis
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: SHOULDER HARNESS |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Hi Dick,
I'd love to have the info about the british shoulder harness info for
the front cockpit - that's where my daughter will be riding until
she's old enough to fly it herself.
Please send the files to this address:
gardner.698@osu.edu
That's my work e-mail & it's hi speed, my home one is cranky old dial-up.
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
At 8:56 AM -0600 1/6/06, rhartwig11@juno.com wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
>
>I have the information on the British approved SHOULDER HARNESS for the
>front cockpit. If you want the info e-mail me directly by clicking on
>this link rhartwig11@juno.com . The files are about 1 meg so it will
>take a few minutes to download if you have a dial up connection.
>Dick H
>
>
--
North Canton, OH
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: seat belts/harness. Safety (maybe out of theme, Delete?) |
Hi Sterling,
Yes, you are right, I also use a harness in my airplanes, I was thinking in
another thing: Maybe not your point at all I accept it now, but my post was
because I reminded that many pilots try to compare safety of planes with cars...
even braking power in their wheels.
cars crash with others because they move in the same "level" and brake hard
because of intersections and red lights... so they need colapsable structure,
etc. and heavy disk brakes.
Planes fly at their speed out of (normally) other planes area, also they
bleed speed in the strip at touch down before aplying the brakes, most dont even
use the brakes until turning (hold a wheel). Yes, when a plane crushes normally
ends as a mess.
A harness and a way to safety things inside the cabin (tools, carry on cloths
in long flights etc) can prevent injuries to pilot and passenger in minor incidents.
I every case, lets keep us alert when flying, if we are not in perfect "mental
fit" that day, better go back and fly the next day... Aviation is jelous
and wont forgive.
Sorry for not getting your point right...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com> wrote:
Gary:
Had this guy had a better way to strap himself in, he would have not required
surgery to his face. He failed to control his airplane in a shallow turn and
he screwed up, but still a small harness would have prevented his face from impacting
the panel. Needless to say, he managed to walk away from the wreck, but
he is disfigured for life. Better planning and flying skills would have prevented
this, and a small harness would kept his face from slamming into the panel.
My Cessna and my Piper Cherokee all had some absorbant material on the panel,
but the Pietenpol this chap was flying was typical to plans and the panel was
unforgiving to a facial impact.
My dad first gave me flying lessons when I was 14 years old in a Twin Bonanza
back in 1965, and he always strapped me in good. Yes, I learned to not panic
and fly the airplane regardless of conditions, and yes I have had forced landings
without incidence, but the extra margin of safety afforded by a simple harness
in a Pietenpol is on my list.
No, I won't have a ballistic parachute (too heavy and expensive) but I might
dangle a rabbits foot on the panel of my aircamper for good luck.
Sterling
5TA6
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness.
Hi Sterling,
Lets face it.... Airplanes are NOT designed to crash,,, The important thing
is to become proficient while flying and learn how your plane reacts in any emergency..
I say this because the human body only resists a limited amount of sudden impact
G's harness or not you might not survive a severe impact, but at list safety
harnessed to your seat :-).
Planes out of control are capable to add lots of speed VERY FAST before impact,
they are FALLING down... So the more important thing is to fly it down as
under control as much as our experience will allow us.
Newbies pilots think that BRS and Safety Harness will save their life, Bahhh
only learning and practicing emergency procedures will.
Fly it always untill is taxing to the platform ;-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com> wrote:
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Douwe...
I don't think anyone on this list will argue with you and most of us will say
safety is no hang-up...
I saw a Pietenpol last year that had been in a stall accident about 100 feet
off the ground whilst the pilot was trying to return to the grass strip h e had
just taken off from, when learning a presidential TFR was in effect at Crawford
(not too far from Waco.) The pilot's face impacted the panel and although
I didn't see the chap's face, I hate to think what it looked like after the impact.
The aftermath was alarming. The panel was smashed up pretty good from the
fellow's face and this pilot only had a seat belt in his Piet.
My Piet only has a seat belt setup (I bought it as a project) and I plan on going
back into the fuselage to attach cables to the tail (much in the same way
you have described) in order to fabricate a shoulder harness. An A&P/IA suggested
this same method to me for attaching the shoulder harness.
I am confident my wife would leave me if my face got any uglier, thus the reason
for wanting the shoulder harness in my A ir Camper.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness
Ken,
I guess we all have our little "hang-ups" and safety harness is one of mine.
I've probably overengineered mine, but with that panel so close to my face, it
gives me more peace of mind.
I've fashioned a glass seat bottom with a scoop for my rump which is not only
much more comfortable, it also drops me down almost two inches into the cockpit.
Now, if I run the harness out the top of the turtle deck, the angle is right
and would minimize any spine compression, which is a possibility if the harness
originates much lower than one's shoulders.
I welded up a very light tubular pylon that mounts just inside the turtle deck,
to which my harness bolts. Then a cable runs from that bolt, back to the tailskid
mounting area.
If I remember correctly, the pilot's seat belt bolts through both the vertical
member with some ash blocking.
The passenger seat belt bolts through the bottom crossmember and through the
metal strap that runs between gear fittings on the bottom of the fuse.
I am planning on snapping my passenger's harness to the rear X bracing (rods
in my case), as this should spread any load between many fittings, but we'll see
if my inspector lets it go. That's a really hard spot to find a good anchor.
I do have some shots and drawings somewhere from England of a pretty nice
Piet installation. you'd have to plan very early since it really must be fitte
d while the fuse is in the works. if you want, email me and I'll TRY to find
them.
Douwe
douweblumberg@earthlink.net
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