---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/09/06: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:44 AM - Smart Tool Level (Dave and Connie) 2. 04:20 AM - Re: Sitka spruce availability (Bernadette) 3. 05:39 AM - Plan question (Jack T. Textor) 4. 10:50 AM - Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements (Ed G.) 5. 10:50 AM - Re: Plan question (tmbrant1@netzero.com) 6. 11:59 AM - Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements () 7. 12:19 PM - Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements (Bill Church) 8. PM - () 9. 03:44 PM - Smart tool (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 10. 06:02 PM - Re: Big Error, (Tom Stinemetze) 11. 07:07 PM - All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:37 AM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smart Tool Level <20060108230937.yjuqkt1jyzwgwosc@www.wotelectronics.com> DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:37 AM PST US From: "Bernadette" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sitka spruce availability --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bernadette" > From: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" > > For any of you SE Pieter's I still have about 600 bf of Kachemak Bay AK, > clear dried Sika Spruce down at my hanger in Palatka FL. . Offered to give some away last yr to some kid > that wanted to get into woodworking and building wood planes, but didn't > show up. > Gordon Bowen > Yep, not sure if my son is the only kid into woodworking but Gordon is a really nice guy who offered my 12 year old son and I some of the spruce if we would stop by and pick it up. Unfortunately that was about the time the price of gas was headed to over $3 a gallon and a trip from Ohio to Florida just wasn't in the budget. Meanwhile we did buy the "baragin spruce box" from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. I will be ripping and planing those pieces into capstrips at the harp shop where I work part time (www.argentfox.com) to get started on wing ribs for our project as soon as it gets warm enough this spring to hang out in an unheated detached garage. Thanks for all the tips, information and building information I have gotten from this list. I hope the day finds you well DocFont ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plan question From: "Jack T. Textor" Hi all, Getting ready to order some additional wood for my fuselage. The 32 Manual shows fuselage top and bottom braces at 1"x3/4". The improved plans indicate 1"x =BD" unless otherwise indicated. I assume I go with the =BD", correct? Thanks all! Jack Textor www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:10 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hi Glen..Welcome to Pietland..The wing chord is 60". If you try to do stuff like expecting the individual dimensions to add up to the total length you will just make yourself crazy. I don't remember the second verticle measurement being missing, I can check my plan set for you when I get home tonite or maybe someone else can get it for you sooner if it is there. If you plot the dimensions out you will find that there is a low spot ( about 1/8") near the aft third of the upper cap strip. I plotted the points on a piece of plywood and then drove a small nail partially into the wood at each plotted point. Then I bent a 1/8" hardwood strip over the nails and ran a pencil line along it to connect and average the points. There are lots of Piets out there flying just fine with minutely different wing rib profiles. Save your rib jig incase you ever need to replace a rib. I didn't use a full size rib profile but I hear they are undependable because of the expansion and contraction of the paper due to humidity changes. hope this helps...Ed G. >From: "Glenn Thomas" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements >Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:12:17 -0500 > >Today while building my rib jig, I was plotting points according to Wing >Plan (3/3/34) in the "Measurements of Wing Rib Profile" section (top). The >tip of the LE is 1 1/2" up from the baseline. The second vertical is back >1/2" from the tip of the LE but no measurement is given from the baseline. >Do you just eyeball it and do a manual curve fit based on the other points? > Doesn't make sense that you would guess at it if other dimesions are >given to the nearest 1/64" (the tip of my pencil is wider than that) It's >a point in an area with a lot of bend so I don't like guessing. Also one >drawing shows the total rib length of 60" but if you add up all the >individual measurements for the verticals it comes out to 60 1/8". Am I >quibbling? > >I read through the archives and didn't see anything on this but found >another article regarding the 3/3/34 Plan profile being different than the >full sized rib profile. Which do you go with? > >Thanks in advance, >Glenn ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:18 AM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plan question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" I did the 1/2"... Question is, in what orientation? I wouldn't think it would matter. If it's the braces I think you're referring to, I installed mine with the 1/2" up and down and the 1" left and right. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:37 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Thanks a lot Ed, ---- "Ed G." wrote: > I don't remember the second verticle > measurement being missing, ... The distance between the 2 crossings of the 2nd vertical is given but not the distance from the baseline to the bottom of the profile. Thanks, Glenn ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:12 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements From: "Bill Church" Glenn, This missing dimension caused me to pause as well. I plugged all the given co-ordinates into a CAD program and joined them up and approximated the curve at the leading edge. Based on this CAD drawing I could measure a theoretical dimension for that point. I also compared against the full-size rib profile, which I found to be not very precise overall (at the time I measured, the overall length was about 1/4" short). But the general shape at the front is pretty close, since the length was only out by less than half a percent (1/4 divided by 60 .004, or .4%). What I ended up using was 1/2" from the baseline. That seemed to give a pretty good smooth curve. In any case, that dimension falls in the leading edge, not on the capstrip area, so it doesn't impact directly on the rib jig profile. I'm not sure why there are dimensions given in 64ths of an inch. Most Pietenpols operate at sub-sonic speeds, I believe. : ) After all, these things are built out of wood. The most important aspect of the rib profile is that they are all the same, down the length of the wing. I don't think that it would make a huge difference in performance if you were out by 1/32" here or there. As for the dimensions not adding up, I think it's so that the wing will match the fuselage. : ) (if you add those up on the side view, as I remember they don't match the dimensions given for the top view - don't have the drawings in front of me, just going from memory - hope I remembered that right). I think I took the extra 1/8" out of the last section, to end up with 60" overall. (the actual size and profile of your leading and trailing edges will determine your final overall chord of your wing, and if it ends up 1/8" big or small, it will be inconsequential) I ended up using the dimensioned drawing (Wing Plan (3/3/34)) to create my rib profile for my jig (lofted directly onto a piece of MDF), and I used the full size template to determine approximate locations for the diagonals, since they don't have any dimensions anywhere. From the discussions I have read, you'd be fine if you built using the full size template, even if it was 1/4" big or small - as long as all the ribs were consistant. That's why you'll want to hang onto your rib jig when you're finished, in case you ever need to make a replacement or two. Only your jig will give you ribs that EXACTLY fit your wing. Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements Today while building my rib jig, I was plotting points according to Wing Plan (3/3/34) in the "Measurements of Wing Rib Profile" section (top). The tip of the LE is 1 1/2" up from the baseline. The second vertical is back 1/2" from the tip of the LE but no measurement is given from the baseline. Do you just eyeball it and do a manual curve fit based on the other points? Doesn't make sense that you would guess at it if other dimesions are given to the nearest 1/64" (the tip of my pencil is wider than that) It's a point in an area with a lot of bend so I don't like guessing. Also one drawing shows the total rib length of 60" but if you add up all the individual measurements for the verticals it comes out to 60 1/8". Am I quibbling? I read through the archives and didn't see anything on this but found another article regarding the 3/3/34 Plan profile being different than the full sized rib profile. Which do you go with? Thanks in advance, Glenn ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:27 PM PST US ETAuAhUAgWemQe5qEuBbe6CUoq+pyJji9HsCFQCMghIz40s9MtuhH9XJBZvy6gxEQA== From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smart tool --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Hi Dave. The Smart Tool level has really gone up. I gave around 100 bucks for mine from one of the aircraft tool venders at Oshkosh 3 years ago. It reads to the 10th of a degree and its fun to read the level showing 0.00 when an item is level. You can't get that close with a bubble level. Rocket science stuff, but not really needed to build a Pietenpol. If you have money to burn go ahead and get one. Leon S. in Kansas ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:18 PM PST US From: "Tom Stinemetze" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Big Error, Don't apologize for "that Cajun Stuff". That was GREAT. Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Pieters, That Cajun stuff was sent unintentional with the last E mail. Please excuse my computer error and ignorance, Corky the Cajun in Louisiana ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:33 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, I'm very proud to announce a completely new BBS interface is now available for all of the Email Lists at Matronics! This is a full-featured system that allows for viewing, posting, attachments, polls - the works. But the best part is that it is *completely* integrated with all of the existing email tools currently available at Matronics! What this means at the most basic level is that, if you post a message to List from Email in the traditional way, it will show up on the BBS system *and* get distributed to everyone currently subscribed to the Email List. By the same token, if you are on the BBS and post a message to a given List-Forum, the message will not only show up on the BBS, but also be distributed to everyone on the Email List!! It is really a very nice implementation and I am very pleased with its operation. All of the tools you have come to know and love such as the List Search Engine and List Browse and Download will still be available and contain all of the latest posts. Think of the new BBS interface as just another method of accessing the all of the Lists. You can use the BBS to view all of the latest posts without having to do anything except use your browser to surf over to the site. You can view and look at all of the various List's posts. If you want to post a new message or reply to an existing message from the BBS, you will have to Register on the BBS. This is a *very* simple process and will only take a couple of minutes. There is a small icon in the upper righthand side of the main BBS page labeled "Register" to get you started. I strongly recommend that you use the exact *same* email address you are subscribed to the Email Lists with when registering on the BBS. Also, while not an absolute requirement, I would really appreciate it if people would use their full name when choosing their Username on the BBS (for example "Matt Dralle"). This just makes it easier for everyone to know who's posting. Also, I have enabled the ability to upload a small user picture with your profile called an "avatar". Please use a *real* picture of yourself *with* your cloths on! Thank you! Maximum size of the bitmap is 120x120. You can either be subscribed to the BBS, or any number of Email Lists, or both. Registering on the BBS will allow you to email directly to all of the various Lists. However, to receive direct List Email, you will need to be *subscribed* to the various Lists as you have in the past. No changes here in operation. I have added numerous links on the BBS pointing to the Email List subscription page. I've had the BBS connected to the Lists for about a week now, so its already loaded up with a fair number of messages. You can post photos and other documents directly to the BBS and links to them will appear in the List Email distributions. Also, when any messages posted to the BBS are viewed in the List Email distribution, there will be a URL link at the bottom of the message pointing back to the BBS. And here's what you've been waiting for -- the main URL for the new Matronics Email List BBS is: http://forums.matronics.com Please surf on over, Register, and have a great time! I think this will be the dawn of a whole new era for the Lists at Matronics! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft