Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements (Ed G.)
2. 09:15 AM - Seat belts and harnesses (Irwin Fust)
3. 09:50 AM - The nose knows (Jeff Boatright)
4. 10:08 AM - nosebowl/cowl photo searches (Michael D Cuy)
5. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements (Lou Wither)
6. 10:56 AM - Re: Seat belts and harnesses (harvey rule)
7. 01:23 PM - Re: Seat belts and harnesses (Mark Blackwell)
8. 02:07 PM - Re: Seat belts and harnesses (Harvey Rule)
9. 02:35 PM - Re: The nose knows (Phillips, Jack)
10. 04:13 PM - Re: The nose knows (Jeff Boatright)
11. 05:28 PM - Re: Seat belts and harnesses (Mark Blackwell)
12. 07:09 PM - woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Scott S.)
13. 07:59 PM - HS Fuse Attach PT (Nick Harris)
14. 08:12 PM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Glenn Thomas)
15. 08:14 PM - Fw: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Glenn Thomas)
16. 08:29 PM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Malcolm Morrison)
17. 08:37 PM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Glenn Thomas)
18. 09:35 PM - Re:woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Michael Turrell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
I didn't want to mess with shimming the jig and takeing a chance on
something getting misaligned so I made standard thickness ribs with slightly
wider capstrip and cut a recess in the capstrips for the plywood after the
ribs were completed using my router table. It was a little extra work but it
came out nice and its a little stronger rib for the fabric to pull against.
Walt's way sounds alot easier and faster but you asked how different people
have done it so there ya go...Ed G.
>From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
>Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:09:28 -0600
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack T. Textor"
><jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
>
>Walt can you share some of the things you would have done different?
>Thanks,
>Jack Textor
>Des Moines
>www.textors.com
>
>.net>
>
>I just put the ply over the standard rib of 1/4" thk.
>You don't see it at all.
>Of the few things that I look over and wish I'd done different,,,that's
>not
>one of them.
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Seat belts and harnesses |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Irwin Fust <ifust@digitalpath.net>
Pietenpol folks,
Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and
harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have
gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has
responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still
in the building process.
Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of
you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones
to get and where to get them.
Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols!
Irwin
ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a
monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and
then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I
thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol!
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
OK, here's a question that's sure to stir the pot. And it's not even political!
We just replaced our A65 with a C75. Everything was a straight fit
except the C75 has a tapered shaft and ends up holding the prop about
1/2 inch closer to the cowling than the A65 did. Just close enough to
cause problems. So, we cut the snout off the cowling. It's functional
but butt-ugly. Actually, butt-ugly insults butts all over the world!
Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has
one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a
URL that links to a photo. We eventually have to make a new an
purtier cowl 'cause we're having trouble flying with paper sacks over
our heads!
Thanks,
Jeff
Message 4
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| Subject: | nosebowl/cowl photo searches |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Jeff-- nothing worse that an ugly Piet cowling....and they come up from
time to time.
Whenever I'm looking for an image of just about anything---I seem to have
the best results with
Google.com and instead of "web" click on "images" and you'll be amazed.
You can type Pietenpol in one time, GN-1 another...you name it, it will
search the photos posted out there
ALL over the earth.
Mike C.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements |
I made my 4 butt ribs that same as the rest, but I also covered the sides with
1/16" plywood and cut openings in that for the aleron cables. I had no probems
with the covering pulling those ribs.
Lou
N799LJ
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Seat belts and harnesses |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
I used the military type purchased from Aircraft Spruce.Three way
system.
Irwin Fust wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Irwin Fust <ifust@digitalpath.net>
>
> Pietenpol folks,
> Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and
> harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have
> gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has
> responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still
> in the building process.
> Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of
> you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones
> to get and where to get them.
> Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols!
> Irwin
> ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a
> monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and
> then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I
> thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol!
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Seat belts and harnesses |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
I was actually thinking when I got to that point of needing a seat belt of
using a Simpson Racing harness. The only one Id think about leaving off
might be the submarine belt. Though a Piet is slow a body in motion is
still a body in motion and the angle at touchdown might actually help one
slip out through the lap belt.
----- Original Message -----
From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
>
> I used the military type purchased from Aircraft Spruce.Three way
> system.
>
> Irwin Fust wrote:
>>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Irwin Fust <ifust@digitalpath.net>
>>
>> Pietenpol folks,
>> Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and
>> harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have
>> gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has
>> responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still
>> in the building process.
>> Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of
>> you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones
>> to get and where to get them.
>> Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols!
>> Irwin
>> ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a
>> monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and
>> then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I
>> thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Seat belts and harnesses |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
The lap belt part of the system is 5 to 6 inchs wide and the shoulder
straps are 2 inchs.If you slip out of that then your one slippery
fellow!Besides I usually fly with both feet on the rudder peddles and
that in itself will assist in keeping me in and if that doesn't then
hitting the control post with those delecate parts of your body will
defiinately make you move back!
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell"
> <markb1958@verizon.net>
>
> I was actually thinking when I got to that point of needing a seat
> belt of using a Simpson Racing harness. The only one Id think about
> leaving off might be the submarine belt. Though a Piet is slow a body
> in motion is still a body in motion and the angle at touchdown might
> actually help one slip out through the lap belt.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
>>
>> I used the military type purchased from Aircraft Spruce.Three way
>> system.
>>
>> Irwin Fust wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Irwin Fust
>>> <ifust@digitalpath.net>
>>>
>>> Pietenpol folks,
>>> Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and
>>> harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have
>>> gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has
>>> responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still
>>> in the building process.
>>> Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of
>>> you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones
>>> to get and where to get them.
>>> Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols!
>>> Irwin
>>> ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a
>>> monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and
>>> then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I
>>> thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Why not just add a spacer behind the propeller?
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The nose knows
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
OK, here's a question that's sure to stir the pot. And it's not even
political!
We just replaced our A65 with a C75. Everything was a straight fit
except the C75 has a tapered shaft and ends up holding the prop about
1/2 inch closer to the cowling than the A65 did. Just close enough to
cause problems. So, we cut the snout off the cowling. It's functional
but butt-ugly. Actually, butt-ugly insults butts all over the world!
Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has
one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a
URL that links to a photo. We eventually have to make a new an
purtier cowl 'cause we're having trouble flying with paper sacks over
our heads!
Thanks,
Jeff
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Jack,
The back plate on the taper shaft hub fouled the cowl, too. Sorry, I
should have been more specific. Thanks for the thought, though.
Probably the best solution would have be a combination of spacer and
less cutting of the front of the cowl, though it still would have to
have been cut.
Thanks again,
Jeff
At 5:35 PM -0500 1/11/06, Phillips, Jack wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
><Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
>Why not just add a spacer behind the propeller?
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>Boatright
>Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:50 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: The nose knows
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
>OK, here's a question that's sure to stir the pot. And it's not even
>political!
>
>We just replaced our A65 with a C75. Everything was a straight fit
>except the C75 has a tapered shaft and ends up holding the prop about
>1/2 inch closer to the cowling than the A65 did. Just close enough to
>cause problems. So, we cut the snout off the cowling. It's functional
>but butt-ugly. Actually, butt-ugly insults butts all over the world!
>
>Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has
>one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a
>URL that links to a photo. We eventually have to make a new an
>purtier cowl 'cause we're having trouble flying with paper sacks over
>our heads!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Seat belts and harnesses |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harvey Rule" <harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Harvey Rule
> <harvey.rule@sympatico.ca>
>
> The lap belt part of the system is 5 to 6 inchs wide and the shoulder
> straps are 2 inchs.If you slip out of that then your one slippery
> fellow!Besides I usually fly with both feet on the rudder peddles and
> that in itself will assist in keeping me in and if that doesn't then
> hitting the control post with those delecate parts of your body will
> defiinately make you move back!
>
Race car belts are about the same size as you describe, yet they had a
problem. Feet were on brake pedals just as you describe a rudder pedals,
but legs were being broken. Bracing ones self seldom helps much. Some
impacts had the body slipping out under the lap belts, so they add straps
between the legs and sometimes two to make sure the body stayed upright in
the proper position in the seat. Last one I saw was a 5 or 6 point harness.
It goal was to keep it so the body doesn't hit those key places. Equally
importantly its has a single release to get out quickly.
Thing is they can be a pain to use. In a run off the end of the runway
accident I wonder how much value they would be, but a more serious one I
would suspect that value would be much greater.
Message 12
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| Subject: | woodworker intimidated by metal fittings |
I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in
the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last
spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list.
My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person
to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must
it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as
to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools
or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am.
Metalworker I am not.
Thanks for any info you guys can give.
Message 13
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| Subject: | HS Fuse Attach PT |
Question about the attach point for the HS? I have GN1 plans so this may be a
little different. My plans show a solid piece of wood that glues to the inboard
side of the leading edge. How thick should this piece be? Should it have
a gusset over it or just a but joint?
Thanks!
Nick Harris
nharris25@yahoo.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings |
Hi,
Funny you should ask about pre-made fittings (or at least pre-cut/pre-bent). I
was just killing time looking at Piet pictures an hour ago and came across this
site. I can't say how good the work is but the site creator seems to like
it. There are a few close-ups of some of the fittings. There will be some welding
still but the cutting appears to be done by laser and looks very clean and
accurate.
Hope it helps,
Glenn Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott S.
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the
Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring
when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list.
My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to
weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it
be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where
I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge
to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker
I am not.
Thanks for any info you guys can give.
Message 15
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| Subject: | woodworker intimidated by metal fittings |
>My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to
weld the small parts with a $300 >electric welder from Home Depot, or must it
be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate >leads as to
where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet,
I forgot the paste the link. Here it is...
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-10-03.htm
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Hi,
Funny you should ask about pre-made fittings (or at least pre-cut/pre-bent). I
was just killing time looking at Piet pictures an hour ago and came across this
site. I can't say how good the work is but the site creator seems to like
it. There are a few close-ups of some of the fittings. There will be some welding
still but the cutting appears to be done by laser and looks very clean and
accurate.
>Hope it helps,
Glenn Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott S.
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the
Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring
when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list.
My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to
weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it
be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where
I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge
to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker
I am not.
Thanks for any info you guys can give.
Message 16
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| Subject: | woodworker intimidated by metal fittings |
Scott
I have done all my welding with a Campbell Hausfeld wire feed welder
(non-MIG). This is my first venture into welding. Luckily for me, my
neighbor is a welder (person not machine). He helped me get started and
showed me how to practice. He also has cleaned up some of the welds on my
project. It's not hard, but there is an art to it, and it does take some
practice. All of the welding required for the Pietenpol can be done using
an inexpensive welder with a little patience. For me, this was a chance to
learn another skill and get another toy. Besides, melting metal together is
way cool. The rest of the metal work I did on my bandsaw (woodworking
bandsaw with a metal cutting blade), bench grinder, vise and file. Embrace
your inner blacksmith and built the Pietenpol.
Malcolm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott S.
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in
the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last
spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list.
My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person
to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must
it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as
to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools
or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am.
Metalworker I am not.
Thanks for any info you guys can give.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings |
Hi Scott,
I'm just getting started myself and I'm not a welder either. I have read a couple of books on the topic that came recommended in the William Wynne Corvair Conversion manual. "Aircraft Welding" and "Welder's Handbook" were informative books you can get from the EAA site or possibly even used on Amazon. What I've learned is that because you can't guarantee the penetration of a MIG weld you should OxyAcetylene weld all aircraft parts. I looked into a Victor set of torches and regulators on http://www.cyberweld.com and you can get them for about $250.00 and the cylinders go for about $120.00 each empty. Oxygen costs about $40.00 to fill the tank and Acetylene costs about $30.00 and the cylinders and gas are purchased from your local welding supply company. ...so the whole outfit (less a welding table) goes for roughly $560.00. The other option is TIG welding which is supposedly much more expensive and requires a lot more practice/skill. I want to do everything on my project so I plan on becoming the skilled pro by the time I start making parts.
Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the
Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a
Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes.
Good luck!
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott S.
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to
weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it
be done by a skilled professional?
Thanks for any info you guys can give.
Message 18
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| Subject: | re:woodworker intimidated by metal fittings |
Glenn I believe is correct the only 2 safe methods for welding an aircraft are
oxy-acetylene and TIG .This is all I have ever read and what I was told at the
workshops at Oshkosh that I attended. I took a course at our local college on
oxy-acetylene .It was a great expierience and gave me the confidence I needed.I'm
still practicing on scrap metal and making things in metal for around the
house,and am destructing some of my welds and am quite pleased with my work.I
am a cabinet maker but I find the welding quite relaxing and am seriously considering
building the piet out of 4130.They were building a piet at Oshkosh last
summer out of metal and when I asked why,the gentleman told me for him welding
was the most enjoyable medium he could work with.Also easy to add things like
a door and find a place to attach your shoulder harness too.
If you get the chance read Budd Davisson's' Zen and the Art of the Weld Puddle' you can find it at http://www.airbum.com.The eaa video on oxy-acet welding is also very good.
Regards,Mike
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