---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/12/06: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:02 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:04 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Lou Wither) 3. 04:05 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Lou Wither) 4. 04:10 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Lou Wither) 5. 04:21 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Glenn Thomas) 6. 04:36 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Glenn Thomas) 7. 05:04 AM - welding/premade parts (Douwe Blumberg) 8. 05:12 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 9. 05:12 AM - seat belts (Douwe Blumberg) 10. 05:27 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Scott S.) 11. 05:39 AM - Re: seat belts (harvey rule) 12. 05:41 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Egan, John) 13. 06:22 AM - Seat belts and harnesses, and ignitions (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 06:38 AM - the nose knows (Oscar Zuniga) 15. 06:48 AM - Re: the nose knows (Sterling) 16. 06:59 AM - Re: the nose knows (Sterling) 17. 07:58 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Paul Carter) 18. 09:19 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Lou Wither) 19. 09:31 AM - Ford Piet on ebay 1day left (Michael D Cuy) 20. 10:12 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Jim Ash) 21. 10:14 AM - Re: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left (Jim Markle) 22. 10:31 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Carl Vought) 23. 10:40 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Jim Ash) 24. 10:45 AM - Re: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left (Jim Ash) 25. 11:02 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Scott S.) 26. 11:20 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Jim Ash) 27. 11:43 AM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Lou Wither) 28. 12:03 PM - Elevator center beam question (Dan Loegering) 29. 12:16 PM - Re: Elevator center beam question (Jack T. Textor) 30. 03:13 PM - Steel fittings (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 31. 04:12 PM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Rcaprd@aol.com) 32. 04:26 PM - Re: Elevator center beam question (Dale Johnson) 33. 06:40 PM - Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings (Kenneth M. Heide) 34. 06:51 PM - Corvair engine cowling..... (Kenneth M. Heide) 35. 06:59 PM - Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires (Kenneth M. Heide) 36. 07:06 PM - Re: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires (Dick Navratil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:21 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Go here and check out "Zen and the Weld Puddle" under "How To"; http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How Lot's of other neat stuff on Budd's site as well. And whatever you do, DON'T grind, file, or otherwise attempt to clean up your welds. You'll be cutting across the grain lines in the metal thus weakening it. And don't stick it in water to cool it down faster, your inner blacksmith won't like it. Neither will you when it comes apart at some inopportune time. You might want to look into some night school lessons as well. One little trick to make things a little easier is to cut the welding rods in half and fold over one end. That way you'll be sure to pick it up by the cold end every time. :-) Here's an update on my progress, so much to do, so little time. http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol4.html Clif, somewhere on the wetcoast of Nort America. If you really want to know, go see the frapper. :-) http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol PS, "fill in the holes" , good pun, I like it. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:00 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I welded up all of my fittings with a gas torch. Did one motor mount wrong with a Tig setup, the replacement was done with gas. I much preferred the gas welding. I am not sure that this is an application for either stick welding or mig welding, although I understand the Maule fuselage is welded together with mig. Hope this helps. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:40 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I cut all of mine out with a band saw, and finished with a file. The old fashoned way, but I bet it is a lot more cost effective than laser cutting. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:50 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings The inner blacksmith might find it handy to do some reading on welding 4130 tubing. I believe that he might find there is a process call normalizing that will also take out the internal stresses in the weld and soften the metal in the heat effected zone of the weld thereby making it more ductile. This is especially true when welding with a TIG set-up. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:35 AM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings There is a lot to know about welding and a lot of welders aren't familiar with the stringent requirements of aircraft welding. That's why I read a few books. The point Lou Makes with the stress relieving process is important and something my brother would never bother with but I WILL find a place to do this on my engine mount. The book ("Aircraft Welding") is cheap and you can read through it in an evening and have it around for a reference. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Lou Wither To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings The inner blacksmith might find it handy to do some reading on welding 4130 tubing. I believe that he might find there is a process call normalizing that will also take out the internal stresses in the weld and soften the metal in the heat effected zone of the weld thereby making it more ductile. This is especially true when welding with a TIG set-up. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:30 AM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings The airbum site is a great resource. ...and your plane is a work of art! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Go here and check out "Zen and the Weld Puddle" under "How To"; http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How Lot's of other neat stuff on Budd's site as well. And whatever you do, DON'T grind, file, or otherwise attempt to clean up your welds. You'll be cutting across the grain lines in the metal thus weakening it. And don't stick it in water to cool it down faster, your inner blacksmith won't like it. Neither will you when it comes apart at some inopportune time. You might want to look into some night school lessons as well. One little trick to make things a little easier is to cut the welding rods in half and fold over one end. That way you'll be sure to pick it up by the cold end every time. :-) Here's an update on my progress, so much to do, so little time. http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol4.html Clif, somewhere on the wetcoast of Nort America. If you really want to know, go see the frapper. :-) http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol PS, "fill in the holes" , good pun, I like it. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:34 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding/premade parts Hi Scott, Welcome to Piet land! I know that Lee Stenson at Brodhead airport had some parts laser cut and was offering them for sale about four years ago. I don't have his number but you could track him down if you get hold of someone at Brodhead, WI airport. Maybe he has some laying around. They were very nice. Do not be afraid to tackle the fittings, they're very simple. Think of it as hard plywood and work it the same, just use metal working tools. The bandsaw mentioned is perfect, just use a metal cutting blade and slow the speed down, then file and grind edges etc, etc. Be sure you get Tony Bingalas' books on building from EAA and you'll gain lots of confidence. Don't mig weld aircraft parts. TIG is too expensive, so find yourself a nice little oxy/acetelyne setup and a book or two or even a video (all available through EAA or elsewhere) and just start. If you have a friend, ask him or pay a welder to help you for a few hours. Be sure you use good rod from an aircraft supplier once you really start on actual fittings, but you can research that later. If this all was that difficult, you think we'd be able to be doing it??!! and.. just keep asking questions, that's why we're all here Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:21 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings That would be DJ Vegh's fantastic site. An inspiration to many of us. The Emachineshop he links, may still has his job on file. Though one thing to remember is that DJ's plane is a GN1, so the fittings are different from the Pietenpol. Additionally I seem to recall DJ indicated that since he has had his parts made, the prices for their work had gone up considerably. But they may be worth a try if you are looking for a way to avoid doing to much metal work. Michael Silvius In Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas I forgot the paste the link. Here it is... http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-10-03.htm ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:56 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat belts Irwin, I used car racing belts with a wide lap belt and two narrower, over the shoulder belts that are permanently attached to the lap belt, which opens in the middle using a large lever type buckle. I used this belt in off-roading and really like the larger width across my lap, though this stuff IS heavier than aircraft stuff. It's a little hard to snuggle into, but so what. Douwe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:15 AM PST US From: "Scott S." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I took a metals class back in college (20 yrs) ago, in which we did some gas welding. Seeing the instructor break apart with his bare hands what looked like a good weld taught me there's much more to it than meets the eye. I swore I'd NEVER trust my own gas welding. That's why I asked about electric, but it appears that's not so simple either. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:29 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule Always remember there are places on your body that are suspended in water or a substance like water.Even though you hold your body ridged in a crach ,these parts move anyway,very quickly to a point where they are either stopped by bone or they just tear through the flesh.I have heard horrifying stories (some may be myths) of instances where parts have kept going and it don't matter how good your held in place.Then again most injuries in a car would be prevented had the people inside been held in place better.We should all really wear helmets when driving a car or flying a plane.Like it or not it would help a lot of head injuries. > Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Irwin, > > I used car racing belts with a wide lap belt and two narrower, over > the shoulder belts that are permanently attached to the lap belt, > which opens in the middle using a large lever type buckle. > > I used this belt in off-roading and really like the larger width > across my lap, though this stuff IS heavier than aircraft stuff. > > It's a little hard to snuggle into, but so what. > > Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings From: "Egan, John" Another good welding source is: Book: Performance Welding by Richard Finch - Richard is one of the guys who comes up to EAA and volunteers in the gas welding both, and he visits the EAA museum during the January EAA Sportair workshops to teach gas welding. You can find his welding books (and he published a book on "How to keep your Corvair engine running") in stores like "Home Depot", however the cover on the welding book when sold at Home Depot may say something like "Monster Garage Welding" or something, but I think it's the same "how to" book, and it will have his name on it. When speaking with him, he explains how many commercial built airframes have been MIG welded over the years due to simply the cost savings in time, and he mentioned specific types of planes which I can not recall. He also discussed with the group that I was in when he spoke about normalizing welds. The message I left with after all said and done is that I will not attempt to normalize any welds, and I will be better off just letting the weld cool down slowly. I am also more of a woodworker than a metal worker and have all the same issues during the metal working process..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:34 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal =66ittings =09 =09 The airbum site is a great resource. ...and your plane is a work of art! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Go here and check out "Zen and the Weld Puddle" under "How To"; http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How Lot's of other neat stuff on Budd's site as well. And whatever you do, DON'T grind, file, or otherwise attempt to clean up your welds. You'll be cutting across the grain lines in the metal thus weakening it. And don't stick it in water to cool it down faster, your inner blacksmith won't like it. Neither will you when it comes apart at some inopportune time. You might want to look into some night school lessons as well. One little trick to make things a little easier is to cut the welding rods in half and fold over one end. That way you'll be sure to pick it up by the cold end every time. :-) Here's an update on my progress, so much to do, so little time. http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol4.html Clif, somewhere on the wetcoast of Nort America. If you really want to know, go see the frapper. :-) http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol PS, "fill in the holes" , good pun, I like it. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:11 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses, and ignitions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" My opinion on seat belts and harnesses, based on NX41CC and my roughly 150 lb., 5'-10" frame. After the nose-over incident, I was determined to change the seat belts in the airplane to a race-car type harness. I figured I wouldn't be able to anchor the submarine strap (the one up between your legs) due to the controls being right there below the pilot's crotch, but a 4-point would be fine. So I bought a basic quick-release race car harness from Summitt Racing, one that had a single strap going aft from the shoulder harnesses so I could still use the same anchor point in the aft fuselage, and ditched the submarine strap. I got it all to fit on the old anchor points and slid into the seat for a fit. And I didn't even get the wide, fat straps that are available; I think mine are only 2" wide straps and you can get some honkin' 3" wide ones. I ended up with a big, fat buckle and latch assembly not only in my lap, but pressing the tops of my thighs and restricting the use of my legs. Not only was it not comfortable, it may be a bit dangerous because it severely restricts the motions needed to fly the airplane and to lean out the side to toss a roll of toilet paper (oops... I didn't mean that). Seriously, it will...not...work...in the snug little Piet cockpit. If you want to try it and see, email me privately with your address and I'll send you a brand-new Summit Racing 5-point harness in blue to try for yourself. Really! It's sitting in a box in my hangar for anybody who wants to try it out (then buy it if you want it after trying it). So I've gone back to the olive-drab, military-style seat belt and harness that Corky put in the airplane originally and we're back to comfortable again. I don't like the fact that the shoulder straps on this military rig can be unhooked from the lap belt, but will have to live with that and be aware that it can happen unintentionally. And by the way, there was a discussion a few days ago about stuff on the instrument panel and I already mentioned that good old Charlie ended up with half an ignition key embedded in his forehead when the plane went over on its back. It snapped off in the ignition switch when he hit, and Charlie's face was all bloody from the cut on his forehead from the key. When you install stuff on your panel, check where your head would hit if you were slammed forward before you "get it tune with your inner ignition key"! Another thing I found from this (I'm replacing the ignition wiring with shielded, to cut the radio noise) is that the blow to the ignition switch stripped one of the screws that holds the switch together, and at some point could have led to an open "hot" mag when it was supposed to be grounded, or a dead mag when it was supposed to be driving an A65 toilet-paper slicer in the air. The screws that hold the switch together screw into plastic, and the impact had stripped out one of the two screws. Either way, I use this as an example to carefully examine things after you have an incident of some sort. I now have an identical, brand-new ACS ignition switch. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:32 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" I guess noses are like opinions... everybody has one and there is at least one you don't like. I think that the nose of 41CC is about the best treatment I've ever seen on a Continental-powered Piet (see the top couple of pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ), and it's essentially the same as Mike Cuy's. I really do think it's tops for simplicity and clean lines. Most of the others look too boxy, or too bulbuous, or too... something, to me. They try to enclose too much of the engine and accessories and end up detracting from the lines of the airplane. There are several other very attractive Piet noses I've seen, though... William Wynne's ill-fated Corvair-powered Piet had a very nice shape to the nose if you plan to have a spinner, and the absolutely incredible artwork that DJ Vegh did for Sterling Brooks to create the TACO logo, featured a fabulous Piet with a beautiful nose treatment that brings out that antique look if that's what you're after... sort of like what the cowling would look like if you hung a Ranger or other inverted inline engine on the nose. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:55 AM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" Oscar: Can you send a picture of your nose (the airplane nose... I've already seen your personal nose in Junction...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > I guess noses are like opinions... everybody has one and there is at least > one you don't like. I think that the nose of 41CC is about the best > treatment I've ever seen on a Continental-powered Piet (see the top couple > of pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ), and it's > essentially the same as Mike Cuy's. I really do think it's tops for > simplicity and clean lines. Most of the others look too boxy, or too > bulbuous, or too... something, to me. They try to enclose too much of the > engine and accessories and end up detracting from the lines of the > airplane. > > There are several other very attractive Piet noses I've seen, though... > William Wynne's ill-fated Corvair-powered Piet had a very nice shape to > the nose if you plan to have a spinner, and the absolutely incredible > artwork that DJ Vegh did for Sterling Brooks to create the TACO logo, > featured a fabulous Piet with a beautiful nose treatment that brings out > that antique look if that's what you're after... sort of like what the > cowling would look like if you hung a Ranger or other inverted inline > engine on the nose. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:55 AM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" Seriously, I'm in need of some direction as I get close to building the nose on my Piet... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling" Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" > > Oscar: > > Can you send a picture of your nose (the airplane nose... I've already > seen your personal nose in Junction...) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oscar Zuniga" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:37 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" >> >> >> I guess noses are like opinions... everybody has one and there is at >> least one you don't like. I think that the nose of 41CC is about the >> best treatment I've ever seen on a Continental-powered Piet (see the top >> couple of pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ), >> and it's essentially the same as Mike Cuy's. I really do think it's tops >> for simplicity and clean lines. Most of the others look too boxy, or too >> bulbuous, or too... something, to me. They try to enclose too much of >> the engine and accessories and end up detracting from the lines of the >> airplane. >> >> There are several other very attractive Piet noses I've seen, though... >> William Wynne's ill-fated Corvair-powered Piet had a very nice shape to >> the nose if you plan to have a spinner, and the absolutely incredible >> artwork that DJ Vegh did for Sterling Brooks to create the TACO logo, >> featured a fabulous Piet with a beautiful nose treatment that brings out >> that antique look if that's what you're after... sort of like what the >> cowling would look like if you hung a Ranger or other inverted inline >> engine on the nose. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:43 AM PST US From: "Paul Carter" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Scott, Go to aviation@metalcraftuk.freeserve.co.uk _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott S. Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:51 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Scott, I am curious, what college do you go to that taught gas welding? Lou Wither N8799H Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:23 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys-- have you seen this crate yet ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603404406&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting I'd wanna see this one in person before buying it...........even cheap. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:58 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:46 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle I just hope whoever buys it tells us how those brakes work....with what appear to be straight laced hubs..... -----Original Message----- >From: Michael D Cuy >Sent: Jan 12, 2006 11:29 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > >Guys-- have you seen this crate yet ?? > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603404406&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting > > >I'd wanna see this one in person before buying it...........even cheap. > >Mike C. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:59 AM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings For the record, I took Welding, Machine Shop, and steam lab at LSU half a centry ago......Carl Vought ----- Original Message ----- From: Lou Wither To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Scott, I am curious, what college do you go to that taught gas welding? Lou Wither N8799H Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:50 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:46 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash ANY plane will stop at least once.... Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Jim Markle >Sent: Jan 12, 2006 1:14 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle > > >I just hope whoever buys it tells us how those brakes work....with what appear to be straight laced hubs..... > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Michael D Cuy >>Sent: Jan 12, 2006 11:29 AM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left >> >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy >> >>Guys-- have you seen this crate yet ?? >> >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603404406&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting >> >> >>I'd wanna see this one in person before buying it...........even cheap. >> >>Mike C. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:09 AM PST US From: "Scott S." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings The class didn't teach gas welding per se, it was a general metals class that covered several areas. We even did some sand casting of aluminum, which was pretty cool. Middle TN State U. On 1/12/06, Lou Wither wrote: > > Scott, > > I am curious, what college do you go to that taught gas welding? > > Lou Wither > N8799H > > Do not archive > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:14 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:58 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I took mine at Wentworth Institute in Boston, not quite a half a century ago, but got out in 1970. I didn't know how many other schools taught courses such as that. We too had machine shop and electrical wiring shops. Lou Wither N799LJ Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator center beam question From: "Dan Loegering" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" Need help with a plans question on the elevator. Just finished laying out the tail surfaces in Cadd and had a question on the center beam dimensions in the plan. The depth of the center beam is listed as 3/4", but the main beam depth is only 5/8"... This would put a bow of 1/16" per side on the elevators and then it tapers back to 1/2" at the trailing edge. What are the thoughts out there on this? When you constructed your elevators, did you use the full depth 3/4" center beam, or did you shave this down to 5/8", or even a bit more to match the taper back to the trailing edge... In looking this over, I don't think the 1/16" bow will affect anything, just curious what others have done. Same question for the rudder as it's beam dimensions are the same as the elevators. Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator center beam question From: "Jack T. Textor" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack T. Textor" Dan, I tapered mine down to 5/8" starting from about six inches from each tip. Jack Textor Need help with a plans question on the elevator. Just finished laying out the tail surfaces in Cadd and had a question on the center beam dimensions in the plan. The depth of the center beam is listed as 3/4", but the main beam depth is only 5/8"... This would put a bow of 1/16" per side on the elevators and then it tapers back to 1/2" at the trailing edge. What are the thoughts out there on this? When you constructed your elevators, did you use the full depth 3/4" center beam, or did you shave this down to 5/8", or even a bit more to match the taper back to the trailing edge... In looking this over, I don't think the 1/16" bow will affect anything, just curious what others have done. Same question for the rudder as it's beam dimensions are the same as the elevators. Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:40 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel fittings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Scott: A lot of the steel fittings are simple steel strap. For instance strut fittings are .90 X 1 X what ever long. AS&S sells steel strip in various sizes and withs, just cut to length. buy an extra couple of feet of everything . This saved me a lot of work. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:25 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings In a message dated 1/11/2006 9:10:53 PM Central Standard Time, covertspecialops@gmail.com writes: Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. I say you are a Craftsman, and one way or another, you're going to do all your metal work, including the welding. Then, you can get back to woodwork, and build your Toilet-Paper cutter...I mean Prop. I learned to weld at 'The School of Hard Knocks'. My dad was the instructor, I was a young teenager, class was in his Auto Repair Shop, and my most important task in the winter, was to keep the coal furnace going !! I'm currently building a Wittman Tailwind W10, and I will tack weld with a MIG, then oxy/accy weld the clusters. No normalize. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:44 PM PST US From: "Dale Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator center beam question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dale Johnson" Dan Build just like the plan shows. The corners( rear elevater ) will have to be tapered so the gussets lay flat. The center beam & main beam where the wire braces attach should be built up flush with the ribs.This allows the brackets to be mounted on top of the fabric.This makes it a lot easier to cover & paint. Drill holes in the wood than after it's covered melt the holes in the fabric with a small soldering iron. Dale in Mpls > [Original Message] > From: Dan Loegering > To: > Date: 1/12/2006 2:02:52 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator center beam question > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" > > Need help with a plans question on the elevator. > > Just finished laying out the tail surfaces in Cadd and had a question on the center beam dimensions in the plan. The depth of the center beam is listed as 3/4", but the main beam depth is only 5/8"... This would put a bow of 1/16" per side on the elevators and then it tapers back to 1/2" at the trailing edge. > > What are the thoughts out there on this? When you constructed your elevators, did you use the full depth 3/4" center beam, or did you shave this down to 5/8", or even a bit more to match the taper back to the trailing edge... > > In looking this over, I don't think the 1/16" bow will affect anything, just curious what others have done. Same question for the rudder as it's beam dimensions are the same as the elevators. > > Thanks! > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:24 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I must make mention of that site......they will not let you use someones else pattern even if you have permission. The only way to get those parts are to find the original person who ordered them and have them call it in and ship to his door. Then he can send them to you. Their policy is non-negotiable to everyone......This village idiot tried with another aircraft. Having said all of that gobletty goop....They do excellent work and very reasonable. Now affordable to you and me......that another story. Ken Do not Archive MICHAEL SILVIUS wrote: That would be DJ Vegh's fantastic site. An inspiration to many of us. The Emachineshop he links, may still has his job on file. Though one thing to remember is that DJ's plane is a GN1, so the fittings are different from the Pietenpol. Additionally I seem to recall DJ indicated that since he has had his parts made, the prices for their work had gone up considerably. But they may be worth a try if you are looking for a way to avoid doing to much metal work. Michael Silvius In Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas I forgot the paste the link. Here it is... http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-10-03.htm --------------------------------- Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:07 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine cowling..... Hello Fellow Pietens: The simple question I have is this: Are there any plans for a corvair designed cowling? The photo sent with my plans (appears to be a piet with a corvair engine) looks just like a production cowl. Very well done! Does anyone have plans or drawings to make fabrication guessing much less enjoyable? I am allergic to cranial rectal inversion even though I catch it every so often. Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:33 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires Scott: I too have been searching for a good set of lightweight tundra tires for my piet. Here is what I have come up with. At our local Fleet Farm they carry Carlisle Tires size 18x9.50x8NHS 4 ply tubeless rib TL for $31.99. I like the size and width of these tires and they are not very heavy. If you get a chance to look at these (Carlisle web site ) tell me your thoughts. They look very much like the real aircraft tires with a wide profile and moderate groove channels. Be very interested in what others have to say. Also wondering the weight of complete set-ups of motorcycle tires vs tundra tires?... Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:45 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires Ken My Harley wheels weigh out at 58 lbs. Thats 2 - 21 in rims with tires, rotors, calipers and axle. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires Scott: I too have been searching for a good set of lightweight tundra tires for my piet. Here is what I have come up with. At our local Fleet Farm they carry Carlisle Tires size 18x9.50x8NHS 4 ply tubeless rib TL for $31.99. I like the size and width of these tires and they are not very heavy. If you get a chance to look at these (Carlisle web site ) tell me your thoughts. They look very much like the real aircraft tires with a wide profile and moderate groove channels. Be very interested in what others have to say. Also wondering the weight of complete set-ups of motorcycle tires vs tundra tires?... Ken Heide Fargo, ND Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.