---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/16/06: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:28 AM - update on Flycorvair.com website (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 05:41 AM - Re: "The nose knows" Pietenpol cowling. (Hans Vander Voort) 3. 07:09 AM - Re: transportability (Ralph) 4. 07:28 AM - serious information for Corvair builders (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 07:29 AM - Re: Pietenpol questions (Hans Vander Voort) 6. 10:11 AM - Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Jim Markle) 7. 10:47 AM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Hans Vander Voort) 8. 10:47 AM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (DJ Vegh) 9. 11:37 AM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Jim Markle) 10. 11:46 AM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Jim Markle) 11. 11:58 AM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (John Egan) 12. 12:09 PM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (DJ Vegh) 13. 12:32 PM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (gcardinal) 14. 01:36 PM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Sterling) 15. 01:50 PM - Re: Re:Sitka spruce availability (Jack T. Textor) 16. 02:49 PM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Peter W Johnson) 17. 04:00 PM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 18. 04:30 PM - Interested in the Smoke.... (Kenneth M. Heide) 19. 04:36 PM - Re: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... (Sterling) 20. 04:38 PM - Re: Interested in the Smoke.... (Sterling) 21. 04:57 PM - Ribstitching - Don't Do What I Did (slowbilder@comcast.net) 22. 05:31 PM - Re: Interested in the Smoke.... (Rcaprd@aol.com) 23. 06:48 PM - Wing spar questions (Jack T. Textor) 24. 06:58 PM - Redesign of..... upper lift strut fitting.... (Jim Markle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:56 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on Flycorvair.com website --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" William has posted an update to his website, at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . The new engine disassembly videos are now available and he has also announced two additional ones now in production. Also included are updates on back-ordered parts. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "The nose knows" Pietenpol cowling. From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort All the inquiries about noses and cowlings spurred me to finish the drawing of mine (cowling that is). Mind you the drawings are reversed engineered from the cowling that I made from sketches on my workbench. Drawing is are listed in Mykitplane .com file section. Or copy link to address bar: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/fileslist2.cfm?AlbumID=74 Pictures and a description at: http://www.hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/indexfront.html Hans NX 15KV, Waller, TX ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:45 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: transportability --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" A number of years ago an article in the PBA newsletter had an article about a builder in England who had developed a set of hinges for folding a Pietenpol. It might be something to check into. Carol and Ralph Raymond ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:19 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: serious information for Corvair builders --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Those who are building or flying Corvair engines should read William's latest technical report on the crankshaft, at http://www.flycorvair.com/crankissues.html It's long and the news isn't great, but if you're planning to fly behind a Corvair, better take a look. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol questions From: Hans Vander Voort John, 1. I have rebuild engines before ( two car engines) thus I was not to worried about my capabilities. But the Corvair is a experimental engine (for airplanes) and as such you should respect that. Every flight I always listen for abnormal sounds. Rebuilding the engine is not difficult, many books are written about it and it can be done by a novice. Most trouble I had was with the ancillary equipment, Electrical system, Carburetor, fuel system, Airfilter, heat box and muffler. Limited material is available on this and you're own creative engineering needs to be applied. I am comfortable with the Corvair engine (at least as comfortable I would be with Continetal or Lycoming) Most engine trouble starts with the ancillary equipment, a heat box that does not work properly or a fuel system that has a fault. It is rarely the engine it self. 2. Bought the following from AS&S: (Embedded image moved to file: pic26777.jpg) I did not make a fiberglass fuel tank, I originally had a 12 Gallon Aluminum Fuel tank in the center section with a 2 gallon header tank in the nose. I have now a 12 Gallon Fuel tank in the nose, found out a Piper J3 tank fits in the long fuselage. I still have the 12 Gallon Tank in the center section but will remove this eventually. Best regards Hans John Egan To hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com 01/16/2006 08:39 cc AM Subject Pietenpol questions Hans, I like your Piet a lot Hans. You did a great job. I'm in the building process, and I would like to ask you a couple of questions if I may. 1. I see onyour web site, you mention that you built up your Corvair yourself. I am thinking about that (building mine), however I have never rebuilt an engine. Do you believe this is an area that an ameture can tackle? I have bought the Wyme conversion manual, and most of his video tapes, but it seems to make like a very challenging task. Seems high risk to me. 2. Could you list the materials you used to make the fiberglass section of your nose? Did you make a fiberglass fuel tank? Thank you. I hope I'm not bothering you. john Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:59 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Jim, I would fill the center to avoid crushing the strut but not for the negative G's Negative G loads are not an issue for a Pietenpol struts, theoretically they handle 7 G's positive and probably 3+ negative. I did some calculations once, but it is so over engineered it can stand many times normal flight (non Aerobatic) maneuvers Which brings up an question I have asked myself many times. Has anyone ever done a successful Roll or Loop in a Aircamper? Not that I am going to try, just like to know. Hans ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:33 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I see you use the Skytek struts. Why not insert a solid piece of 2024 aluminum like I did? something to consider ( and you probably know this already, but just in case) is you will want to prime the steel piece with zinc chromate. don't want aluminum touching steel or you get dissimilar metal corrosion issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:49 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" Thanks Hans, Yes, I have a spacer/bushing in there but it's hard to see in the pic. Thanks! JM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Vander Voort" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort > > > Jim, > > I would fill the center to avoid crushing the strut but not for the > negative G's > > Negative G loads are not an issue for a Pietenpol struts, theoretically > they handle 7 G's positive and probably 3+ negative. > I did some calculations once, but it is so over engineered it can stand > many times normal flight (non Aerobatic) maneuvers > > Which brings up an question I have asked myself many times. > Has anyone ever done a successful Roll or Loop in a Aircamper? > > Not that I am going to try, just like to know. > > Hans > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:03 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Thanks DJ! I thought about using 3/4" sq bar and actually ordered some. I just didn't like the looks of it as much as this design, partly because my spars are 1" wide on the top and bottom and this fills up the 1" gap between the fittings. I didn't much care for the gap that the 3/4" square bar left. I'm sure both would work fine though. I'm going to sand blast and powsercoat the fittings. Let me know if you (or anyone) feels that zinc chromate will give me some protection that powdercoating would not. I can do either! Thanks again, jm ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I see you use the Skytek struts. Why not insert a solid piece of 2024 aluminum like I did? something to consider ( and you probably know this already, but just in case) is you will want to prime the steel piece with zinc chromate. don't want aluminum touching steel or you get dissimilar metal corrosion issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:04 AM PST US From: John Egan Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I think it looks great. If I understand this, you have weld running lengthwise on the inside portion of the bend where the bushing and strap merge, so you effectively have a cross section of weld about the same thickness as the strap itself, would indicates to me that the strap has the same opportunity to fail as the weld has. Maybe a spacer between the straps will be handy to prevent over tightening and distortion of the strut material. Makes me want to build struts now... Jim Markle wrote: Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:46 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I think powdercoating would be fine just remember to make the tolerances loose on the fitting because the powdercoat adds quite a bit of thickness. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Thanks DJ! I thought about using 3/4" sq bar and actually ordered some. I just didn't like the looks of it as much as this design, partly because my spars are 1" wide on the top and bottom and this fills up the 1" gap between the fittings. I didn't much care for the gap that the 3/4" square bar left. I'm sure both would work fine though. I'm going to sand blast and powsercoat the fittings. Let me know if you (or anyone) feels that zinc chromate will give me some protection that powdercoating would not. I can do either! Thanks again, jm ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I see you use the Skytek struts. Why not insert a solid piece of 2024 aluminum like I did? something to consider ( and you probably know this already, but just in case) is you will want to prime the steel piece with zinc chromate. don't want aluminum touching steel or you get dissimilar metal corrosion issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:05 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Hey Jim, I would prefer to see the strap bent completely around the bushing and then welded. The only thing supporting your wing under negative loading is a weld that has been ground down. You might want to re-think this fitting. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:36 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Jim: Avid Aircraft and Kitfox used powder coating effectively to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion between 4130 and aluminum at the junctures where the lift strut structure attached to the alumunim spar. The thickness of the powder coating ensures that the two different metals will never touch. From my experience, zinc chromate is thin and doesn't have enough solids-build-up to effectively separate the two different metals. Sterling ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I think powdercoating would be fine just remember to make the tolerances loose on the fitting because the powdercoat adds quite a bit of thickness. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Thanks DJ! I thought about using 3/4" sq bar and actually ordered some. I just didn't like the looks of it as much as this design, partly because my spars are 1" wide on the top and bottom and this fills up the 1" gap between the fittings. I didn't much care for the gap that the 3/4" square bar left. I'm sure both would work fine though. I'm going to sand blast and powsercoat the fittings. Let me know if you (or anyone) feels that zinc chromate will give me some protection that powdercoating would not. I can do either! Thanks again, jm ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I see you use the Skytek struts. Why not insert a solid piece of 2024 aluminum like I did? something to consider ( and you probably know this already, but just in case) is you will want to prime the steel piece with zinc chromate. don't want aluminum touching steel or you get dissimilar metal corrosion issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability From: "Jack T. Textor" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack T. Textor" Has anyone on the list done business with Public Lumber? I called and they seemed very knowledgeable. They thought shipping from Detroit to Des Moines would be around $180. Thanks, Jack I have not done business with public lumber but if you ordered a couple of 2x6 x20 foot boards I am sure you could manage 1.6 Piets of so. Have three long boards shipped to your home for about $425 total. A Pietenpol is a bird of tradition, enjoy the process! Bernie himself had nice local wood 2x4 and 2x6 of spuce and western hemlock, he cut them up himself and built a great Airplane. While the good stuff is not available locally building 1.6 or so Piets for $400ish is not all that bad! Get yorrself a thin cerf blade and you could probably build two! http://www.publiclumber.com/aasitsprucve.html As always you must grade the wood yourself in the end. Shipping at 14 feet requires a truck and gets expensive so buy enough for two piets and share the cost! You must buy the whole length of the board. Seemed like reasonable people on the phone not afraid to talk airplane use but I don't think they will "certify" anything. Neither will Aircraft spruce! You are buying the experince thier mill workers have sorting for the aircraft industry. Western Aircraft in Canada sells a premium kit of first class stock milled to dimension for a Piet as well as planks. They ship everthing Airmail and I am told it always arrives in good shape. Roughly $120 airfreight. http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Sources/WesternAircraft.html Since I live in Wisconsin I am sorry to hear McCormick is getting so pricy! http://www.mccormicklumber.com/sitka-spruce.htm May your sawdust eventaully be carried aloft and catch a good tail wind! Lets all get out to the shop an remove the parts of the wood that don't look like an airplane! Matt Formerly posted under steamlaunch(at)softhome.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4295#4295 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:34 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Hi Guys, I use solid 4140 steel bar. Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com. Go to page 10 of the builder=92s photographs, about half way down the page (IMG_1057.jpg). All fittings yet to be powder coated. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Tuesday, 17 January 2006 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Thanks DJ! I thought about using 3/4" sq bar and actually ordered some. I just didn't like the looks of it as much as this design, partly because my spars are 1" wide on the top and bottom and this fills up the 1" gap between the fittings. I didn't much care for the gap that the 3/4" square bar left. I'm sure both would work fine though. I'm going to sand blast and powsercoat the fittings. Let me know if you (or anyone) feels that zinc chromate will give me some protection that powdercoating would not. I can do either! Thanks again, jm ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:djv@imagedv.com"DJ Vegh "mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com"pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I see you use the Skytek struts. Why not insert a solid piece of 2024 aluminum like I did? something to consider ( and you probably know this already, but just in case) is you will want to prime the steel piece with zinc chromate. don't want aluminum touching steel or you get dissimilar metal corrosion issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:jim_markle@mindspring.com"Jim Markle "mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com"pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano -- -- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:42 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Not necessarily applying to this thread, but of interest when talking about aluminum corrosion and prevention there of, has anyone heard of doing your own anodizing? Looks like it can be done at home as shown here by Ed Barros. Lacking any one who can do it for him commercially in Argentina he does his own. Rather creative I say. http://www.kr2-egb.com.ar/ on the left hand menu scroll down to "ANODIZADO" perhaps using bablefish translator http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn may help for the ones not fluent in Spanish. Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Sterling Jim: Avid Aircraft and Kitfox used powder coating effectively to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion between 4130 and aluminum at the junctures where the lift strut structure attached to the alumunim spar. The thickness of the powder coating ensures that the two different metals will never touch. From my experience, zinc chromate is thin and doesn't have enough solids-build-up to effectively separate the two different metals. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:02 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interested in the Smoke.... Members of the list serve: I am seeking some information as to the set-up and design of smoke systems. I have no idea what liquid is used to create smoke nor do I know the location of the liquid port into the exhaust(s) make smoke. I am seeking information for future reference and extra-curricular activities to gather necessary parts needed.....(here I come salvage yard...whoopie!) I have though of finding a windshield wiper fluid container that hold a gallon of fluid and carefully stow it inside the fuse with a button on the dash and a filler neck with cap to the outside for ease of filling. For instance, My Honda Element has a nice compact 1 gallon fluid container with pump which could be stowed within the plane and controlled with a push-to-talk button located on the stick. Has this been done before? What are other people using for their smoke system? Am I just out in left field? Ken Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:50 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... I did some on some small pieces a couple of years ago. Bought the Alodine from Aircraft Spruce (see page 310 of their 2004/2005 book) but my experience didn't yeild as good of results as I had expected. Also, Alodine is VERY toxic and the waste is a pain to dispose of if you don't want to contaminate soil or your municiple sewer system. I've read on other sites that Alodine is traceable back to the source through the sewer system. Don't know if this is true but the posts I read about 5 months ago stated any city that reprocesses sewer water to go back into the drinking water supply can determine if Alodine is getting into the supply and the latent residiual materials can be traced back to the originator. (Probably a California thing...) I gave up on Alodine and I have been using Corosion X and Boeshield as a preventative measure. Sterling Brooks 5TA6 DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: MICHAEL SILVIUS To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Not necessarily applying to this thread, but of interest when talking about aluminum corrosion and prevention there of, has anyone heard of doing your own anodizing? Looks like it can be done at home as shown here by Ed Barros. Lacking any one who can do it for him commercially in Argentina he does his own. Rather creative I say. http://www.kr2-egb.com.ar/ on the left hand menu scroll down to "ANODIZADO" perhaps using bablefish translator http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn may help for the ones not fluent in Spanish. Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Sterling Jim: Avid Aircraft and Kitfox used powder coating effectively to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion between 4130 and aluminum at the junctures where the lift strut structure attached to the alumunim spar. The thickness of the powder coating ensures that the two different metals will never touch. From my experience, zinc chromate is thin and doesn't have enough solids-build-up to effectively separate the two different metals. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:17 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interested in the Smoke.... Chuck and Mike are the experts and they can provide pictures. Chuck uses Baby Oil purchased at Walmart. Chuck, by the way, is one of the best smelling Aircamper pilots I have ever met. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interested in the Smoke.... Members of the list serve: I am seeking some information as to the set-up and design of smoke systems. I have no idea what liquid is used to create smoke nor do I know the location of the liquid port into the exhaust(s) make smoke. I am seeking information for future reference and extra-curricular activities to gather necessary parts needed.....(here I come salvage yard...whoopie!) I have though of finding a windshield wiper fluid container that hold a gallon of fluid and carefully stow it inside the fuse with a button on the dash and a filler neck with cap to the outside for ease of filling. For instance, My Honda Element has a nice compact 1 gallon fluid container with pump which could be stowed within the plane and controlled with a push-to-talk button located on the stick. Has this been done before? What are other people using for their smoke system? Am I just out in left field? Ken Fargo, ND Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:51 PM PST US From: slowbilder@comcast.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribstitching - Don't Do What I Did Fellow Piet Builders I very carefully measured the spacing for the ribstitches on my wings, allowing the proper distance between stitches in the propwash area and outside the propwash area. Once everything was assembled I discovered that in the area outside the propwash, there is a row of stitches are right along the rear face of the rear spar. They are right where they will be chafed by the aileron cables, and undoubtedly worn through. This probably would not pose any major structural harm to the airfoil, but I am going to add stitches through the finished wing fabric which will not look all that nice. Be aware of this issue when you are covering your wings. Bob Humbert N491RH Battle Creek, MI. Fellow Piet Builders I very carefully measured the spacingforthe ribstitches on my wings, allowing the proper distance between stitches in the propwash area and outside the propwash area. Once everything was assembled I discovered that in the area outside the propwash,there is a row ofstitches are right along the rear face of the rear spar. They are right where they will be chafed by the aileron cables, and undoubtedly worn through. This probably would not pose any major structural harm to the airfoil, but I am going to add stitches through the finished wing fabric which will not look all that nice. Be aware of this issue when you are covering your wings. Bob Humbert N491RH Battle Creek, MI. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:52 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interested in the Smoke.... In a message dated 1/16/2006 6:31:36 PM Central Standard Time, kmheidecpo@yahoo.com writes: I am seeking some information as to the set-up and design of smoke systems. I have no idea what liquid is used to create smoke nor do I know the location of the liquid port into the exhaust(s) make smoke. I am seeking information for future reference and extra-curricular activities to gather necessary parts needed.....(here I come salvage yard...whoopie!) I have though of finding a windshield wiper fluid container that hold a gallon of fluid and carefully stow it inside the fuse with a button on the dash and a filler neck with cap to the outside for ease of filling. For instance, My Honda Element has a nice compact 1 gallon fluid container with pump which could be stowed within the plane and controlled with a push-to-talk button located on the stick. Has this been done before? What are other people using for their smoke system? Am I just out in left field? Ken Fargo, ND Ken, Ya wanna talk about smoke ?? Lets talk about smoke !! My smoke system consists of an after-market windshield washer pump and tank, plumbing to each exhaust pipe, and wiring to the switch on the power lever. I isolated / mounted the tank on the upper left motor mount tubing, with a couple layers of rubber strap. I routed the clear tubing to a Tee fitting secured in rubber, to the engine mount, then used 1/8" brass tubing to each of the fittings in the exhaust pipes. I laid out the route of the tubing, marked the pipes, and removed both exhaust pipes. I cut a 1/8" pipe coupler in half, radiused each half to the radius of the pipe, and oxy / accy welded them to the aft pipe of each side. After welded, I drilled one #60 hole through the exhaust pipes. I placed these holes toward the bottom edge of the fittings, theorizing that if oil would lay in there it would gum up. The switch is a push on / push off button, that is mounted right to the throttle handle. This location allows me to work the smoke without taking my hand off the throttle. I originally thought it would only smoke good at full power, but came to find I don't need much over 1/4 throttle to Smoke 'Em Up !! I can smoke 'em while taxiing, without any problem !! My exhaust pipes point down and away from the fuselage, and even when all the oil doesn't vaporize, the fuselage hardly gets anything on it. I have a couple of squawks on the system, that I have taken care of. 1.) I mounted the tank at about the same level as the fittings on the exhaust pipes, and it always dribbles out the pipes, with a little bit of smoke as a result. Over a period of a couple of hours, it will drain the tank, but I usually 'Smoke em up' before that happens. 2.) When I ran the tank empty, and refill it, the pump would cavitate because of the way the line ran from the bottom of the tank to the pump, and I would always have to prime the pump, by blowing in the top of the tank. I got some strange looks from folks, while I performed this operation !! 3.) The tank was too small. It only was big enough to do about 3 smoke runs. I would like to put about a 5 gallon bucket up there on the firewall, but I don't have enough room !! 4.) I had to remove the top cowling to re-fill the tank. I'm building a new tank out of fiberglass / West System resin, with a fill tube out to the right side of the cowling. I'll mount it lower on the firewall. This will take care of all the squawks. 5.) I now have been using the new smoke tank, but I have a small leak in the tank. I used West Systems resin for the fiberglass tank, and evidently I didn't get the seam sealed up good enough. I've never had that problem when I used polyester resin, but it kicks very quickly. The West System gives some time, but it is also quite a bit more expensive. After the warnings about the stuff catching on fire, I'll be repairing the tank before my next flight. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing spar questions From: "Jack T. Textor" All, Even after reading the archives I would really appreciate you input on this one. I have built my ribs for the 1" spars. For strength I thought 1" would be best. Was getting ready to order wood for the spars and the supplier is out of 2" stock in 6" width. Also looked closer at Vi's 3 piece wing, I'm wondering if I should just go with 3/4 ". Another thought would be to use 3/4 " and sandwich it with 1/8 ply on each side. I'm driving myself nuts. Again, thanks for your thoughts! Jack Jack Textor Vice President Palmer Group 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:24 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Redesign of..... upper lift strut fitting.... Ok, so I did rethink this fitting! Thanks to all for the great help with thinking this through. Attached is what I ended up with. (I made the pictures as small as possible to avoid any inconvenience to the bandwidth challenged....) The wings will give out long before this fitting will! Jim in Plano..... ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Hey Jim, I would prefer to see the strap bent completely around the bushing and then welded. The only thing supporting your wing under negative loading is a weld that has been ground down. You might want to re-think this fitting. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on upper lift strut fitting.... Here's a pic of my upper lift strut fitting. I'm going to have my Tech Counselor check it but wondered if anyone on the list might help me out.... The inner bushing is 5/16ID X 1/2"OD with a .090 strap wrapped around it. And I welded where the inner bushing contacts the strap. My question is: Although this is plenty for a positive G wing load, is the weld enough to keep the strap piece connected to the inner bushing piece in a Negative G load? I've been thinking about welding a piece of 090 in between the straps, up against the bushing to keep it in place in case of a Negative G situation, but wonder if it's worth the trouble. Suggestions? Jim in Plano