Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:28 AM - turn and bank indicator (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 05:30 AM - Re: Covair engine gauges (Hans Vander Voort)
3. 05:34 AM - Corvair engine gauges (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Phillips, Jack)
5. 05:47 AM - Re: flying (Phillips, Jack)
6. 05:47 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Mark Blackwell)
7. 05:48 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Isablcorky@aol.com)
8. 09:38 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Mark Blackwell)
9. 09:53 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Phillips, Jack)
10. 10:05 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Sterling)
11. 11:36 AM - New to the List (Ben Ramler)
12. 12:33 PM - Re: New to the List (Michael D Cuy)
13. 12:37 PM - Re: New to the List (James Dallas)
14. 12:41 PM - Re: New to the List (Phillips, Jack)
15. 01:11 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Mark Blackwell)
16. 01:11 PM - Re: New to the List (Kirk Huizenga)
17. 01:41 PM - Tail Section Hinge Kits (Kenneth M. Heide)
18. 02:23 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Gene Beenenga)
19. 02:39 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Sterling)
20. 02:54 PM - Re: New to the List (Ben Ramler)
21. 02:54 PM - GPS/was turn and bank indicator (Oscar Zuniga)
22. 02:58 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Gary Gower)
23. 04:31 PM - Re: New to the List (gcardinal)
24. 04:59 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers (Wizzard187@aol.com)
25. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers (Kenneth M. Heide)
26. 05:27 PM - New to the list...... (Kenneth M. Heide)
27. 05:47 PM - thanks (Ben Ramler)
28. 06:09 PM - Re: New to the List (Ben Ramler)
Message 1
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Subject: | turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Mark wrote-
>I don't know if you are planning on having a limited electrical system.
Yes, a very limited electrical system is installed on 41CC... NONE!
>If I were not planning to have a starter or other small electrical system,
>I probably would just have the inclinometer and forget the turn an bank
Yes, I would too... but the airplane was constructed and flown with a
venturi and T&B, as well as a VSI, before I bought it from Corky. I'd
rather keep everything in service than remove them, save weight, and have to
build a new instrument panel.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Covair engine gauges |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Rick,
I used the Westach instruments that Clarks had listed in their catalog with
remote senders.
My front cockpit has two CHT Gauges (one for LH and one for RH cylinder
head) the lead wires are just long enough to reach the engine.
I did not feel the need for a EGT
Hans
Rick Holland
<at7000ft@gmail.c
om> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: Covair engine
gauges
01/22/2006 08:15
PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Question for you Piet/Corvair building concerning engine gauges. Am
planning to use Autometer engine gauges as WW recommends. Question concerns
the type of oil pressure and temperature gauges to get. Do I want use
gauges with remote senders so I don't have to run tubes with hot oil into
the cockpit? Also, any opinions on the need for CHT and EGT gauges with a
Corvair engine?
Thanks
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 3
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Subject: | Corvair engine gauges |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Rick asks-
>Am planning to use Autometer engine gauges as WW recommends.
>Question concerns the type of oil pressure and temperature gauges to get.
>Do I want use gauges with remote senders so I don't have to run tubes
>with hot oil into the cockpit?
Absolutely. I think that was one of William's main points about using these
gauges. Since the Corvair requires an electrical system to power the
ignition, you've got juice so by all means use electric gauges and simplify
things.
>Also, any opinions on the need for CHT and EGT gauges with a Corvair
>engine?
Always a good idea, but not essential to flight. You can get a small
combination EGT/CHT gauge from WesTach and others. I think if you didn't
want one on the panel permanently, you could temporarily mount one somewhere
for test flights to at least ensure that your cooling systems and everything
else was up to snuff, then remove it.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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Subject: | turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this
summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains
of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in
the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no
horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference
to the Turn and Bank.
A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing,
with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A
venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks
the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to
carburetor icing.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
Mark wrote-
>I don't know if you are planning on having a limited electrical system.
Yes, a very limited electrical system is installed on 41CC... NONE!
>If I were not planning to have a starter or other small electrical
system,
>I probably would just have the inclinometer and forget the turn an bank
Yes, I would too... but the airplane was constructed and flown with a
venturi and T&B, as well as a VSI, before I bought it from Corky. I'd
rather keep everything in service than remove them, save weight, and
have to
build a new instrument panel.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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Finally flew mine Friday for the first time since October. Clear blue sky, 59
degrees, no wind. I took the day off, rebuilt the brakes and flew it for nearly
an hour. Unfortunately I forgot to bring gloves and my hands got cold. I've
been flying an RV-4 a lot since October and it has about ruined me as a pilot.
It was good to get back in the Pietenpol and fly a plane that you have to
think about when landing.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying
In a message dated 1/19/2006 10:57:48 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net
writes:
There's been some good chat on building lately, but with the winter weather is
anybody getting any flying in? It's too cold around here and I have mine all
torn down changing the axle and re-doing the fuel system. The weather must be
good somewhere.
Dick N
My prop is still on the work table, and I've still got to finish my new seat, and
some other stuff. 59=BA and mild winds today. I've missed some great flying
weather. :(
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
>
>>I don't know if you are planning on having a limited electrical system.
>
> Yes, a very limited electrical system is installed on 41CC... NONE!
>
>>If I were not planning to have a starter or other small electrical system,
>>I probably would just have the inclinometer and forget the turn an bank
>
> Yes, I would too... but the airplane was constructed and flown with a
> venturi and T&B, as well as a VSI, before I bought it from Corky. I'd
> rather keep everything in service than remove them, save weight, and have
> to build a new instrument panel.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
Sorry Oscar. I didn't catch on to the fact that this was an existing
installation. In that case there are a number of places that will rebuild
the one you have without a great deal of money. Check out a current trade a
plane. Most of the lower priced shops are there. You can either ship that
one to them and have them rebuild that one for you, or they will send you
one for the exchange and keep the down time as low as possible.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
Thanks Jack
Corky
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this
> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains
> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in
> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no
> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference
> to the Turn and Bank.
>
> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing,
> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A
> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks
> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to
> carburetor icing.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have. Visible
mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no fuel
going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern climates I
would guess it would be less important, but in northern climates it much
more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per thousand feet temp
drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw in condensation from
the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown over the hills in
Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now live in PA where the
problem is even worse.
A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to
install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the
airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a
digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the
T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you
would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B.
Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an
instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping
and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the
difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth the
money.
>
Message 9
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Subject: | turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
I agree on the Garmin, Mark. I had a Garmin GPSMap 196 with me on that
trip - I used its NRST button to take me to the nearest airport when I
got into that mess! (BTW, if you are ever in that area, Huntsville
Executive is a very nice airport!) I forgot about its instrument
capabilities, but I doubt it can respond as fast as a Turn & Bank
indicator - particularly with a plane as slow as a Pietenpol.
While we are on the subject of marginal weather flying, though, I found
that the Pietenpol is a pretty good plane to fly in such weather. I'm
comfortable flying the Piet in weather I wouldn't dream of flying a fast
spam-can in. As I told a friend, "Two miles visibility gives you almost
two minutes to look at something before you hit it." And since I rarely
fly it more than 800 feet AGL, low ceilings aren't much of a bother.
Not that I advocate such flying, of course.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell"
<markb1958@verizon.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH
this
> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains
> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up
in
> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no
> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference
> to the Turn and Bank.
>
> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to
freezing,
> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A
> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it
lacks
> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to
> carburetor icing.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have.
Visible
mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no fuel
going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern
climates I
would guess it would be less important, but in northern climates it much
more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per thousand feet temp
drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw in condensation
from
the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown over the hills in
Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now live in PA where
the
problem is even worse.
A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to
install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the
airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create
a
digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the
T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess,
you
would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B.
Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an
instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the
piping
and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the
difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth
the
money.
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
I agree with Mark. The Garmin 196 works great as a back-up TC in my Cessna
and I plan on using it in my Piet. For anybody who hasn't seen the 196 in
action, you'll be very impressed.
Also, I might be selling my 196 on Ebay later this week.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell"
> <markb1958@verizon.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
>> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>>
>> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this
>> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains
>> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in
>> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no
>> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference
>> to the Turn and Bank.
>>
>> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing,
>> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A
>> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks
>> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to
>> carburetor icing.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>
> Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have.
> Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no
> fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern
> climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern
> climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per
> thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw
> in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown
> over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now
> live in PA where the problem is even worse.
>
> A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to
> install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the
> airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a
> digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the
> T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you
> would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B.
>
> Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an
> instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping
> and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the
> difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth
> the money.
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
Message 11
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Hello Pietenpol'ers,
Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live over here
in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot License. Since
1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We bought these plans
when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and at the time I was a Spohmore
in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about building an airplane. I
know that there is a large following of you people here in the upper Midwest.
What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the aircamper be a good first time
projecct. In case you want to know who my dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How
of you are in Minnesota?
Thanks & Take Care,
Ben Ramler
Granite Falls.
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: New to the List |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Ben-- the guy you want to talk to is Chris Bobka in MSP. He is a
world-renowned expert in Pietenpols and small
aircraft engines.
I think Dick Navratil is from MN too....but not positve. I know he winters
in FL.
Welcome to the list !
PS-- take a shop course in gas welding or if you have access to a TIG unit
use that for your metal fittings. If you can make
metal fittings that is half the battle. More than 1/2 acutally. The
woodwork is pretty easy, but the metal work and welding
are the time-consuming portions of the plane.
PSS-- get ALL of the Tony Bingelis books from EAA on building
homebuilts. You can order them on the EAA web site. I think the
set of 4 books are something like $80. VERY much worth the money.
Mike C. in Ohio
Message 13
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "James Dallas" <bec176@msn.com>
Ben, The Piet is an excellant first project and the people on this list are
an excellant source of information.
Have Fun
Jim Dallas
>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:35:37 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hello Pietenpol'ers,
>
> Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live
>over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot
>License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We
>bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and
>at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about
>building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people
>here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the
>aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my
>dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota?
>
>
> Thanks & Take Care,
>
> Ben Ramler
> Granite Falls.
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands
>ASAP.
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Good advice, Mike
Also Ben, Greg Cardinal is from Minneapolis. He and Dale Johnson built
a beautiful Pietenpol. You should plan to attend Brodhead this July.
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Ben-- the guy you want to talk to is Chris Bobka in MSP. He is a
world-renowned expert in Pietenpols and small
aircraft engines.
I think Dick Navratil is from MN too....but not positve. I know he
winters
in FL.
Welcome to the list !
PS-- take a shop course in gas welding or if you have access to a TIG
unit
use that for your metal fittings. If you can make
metal fittings that is half the battle. More than 1/2 acutally. The
woodwork is pretty easy, but the metal work and welding
are the time-consuming portions of the plane.
PSS-- get ALL of the Tony Bingelis books from EAA on building
homebuilts. You can order them on the EAA web site. I think the
set of 4 books are something like $80. VERY much worth the money.
Mike C. in Ohio
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> I agree on the Garmin, Mark. I had a Garmin GPSMap 196 with me on that
> trip - I used its NRST button to take me to the nearest airport when I
> got into that mess! (BTW, if you are ever in that area, Huntsville
> Executive is a very nice airport!) I forgot about its instrument
> capabilities, but I doubt it can respond as fast as a Turn & Bank
> indicator - particularly with a plane as slow as a Pietenpol.
>
> While we are on the subject of marginal weather flying, though, I found
> that the Pietenpol is a pretty good plane to fly in such weather. I'm
> comfortable flying the Piet in weather I wouldn't dream of flying a fast
> spam-can in. As I told a friend, "Two miles visibility gives you almost
> two minutes to look at something before you hit it." And since I rarely
> fly it more than 800 feet AGL, low ceilings aren't much of a bother.
> Not that I advocate such flying, of course.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> "Icarus Plummet"
Jack the slower the airplane the more forgiving it is in a low ceiling low
vis situation, but no airplane is really forgiving in such an unforgiving
environment. The accident records are full of such stories, and I do
recognize that you did not condone such flying as I do not.
Yes even in a Piet, the instruments of the 196/296 or any of the Garmins
work quite well to the point of being able to do a full IFR procedure with
nothing but that should the need arise one day. The processor speeds and
update rates make it work well enough and probably better than any other
practical option available for a Piet. It is a strictly emergency
procedure, but it is a viable options.
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: New to the List |
Ben,
Welcome.
I'm in St Paul also. Come East and visit anytime.
Kirk
Kirk Huizenga
Community Expert
kirk.huizenga@moundsviewschools.org
651.482.8203
my views are not necessarily the view of my employer
Message 17
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Subject: | Tail Section Hinge Kits |
The new price for the hinge kit from Vi Kapler is $ 60.00. The hinges now
come completely finished. These are the tail section hinge kits. PLease send
your check or money order to:
Vitalis Kapler's Address is 1033 Forest Hills Drive SW - Rochester, MN
55902
---------------------------------
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd@earthlink.net>
Sterling, i would be interested in your 196, could you enlighten me as to why you
are selling it, what you are asking for it; what program is in it (I live in
Illinois) and just curious, what do they sell for new, thanks. Gene
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com>
>Sent: Jan 23, 2006 12:04 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
>
>I agree with Mark. The Garmin 196 works great as a back-up TC in my Cessna
>and I plan on using it in my Piet. For anybody who hasn't seen the 196 in
>action, you'll be very impressed.
>
>Also, I might be selling my 196 on Ebay later this week.
>
>Sterling Brooks
>Knot-2-Shabby Airport
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:37 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell"
>> <markb1958@verizon.net>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>>
>>
>>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
>>> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>>>
>>> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this
>>> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains
>>> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in
>>> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no
>>> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference
>>> to the Turn and Bank.
>>>
>>> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing,
>>> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A
>>> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks
>>> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to
>>> carburetor icing.
>>>
>>> Jack Phillips
>>> NX899JP
>>
>> Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have.
>> Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no
>> fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern
>> climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern
>> climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per
>> thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw
>> in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown
>> over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now
>> live in PA where the problem is even worse.
>>
>> A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to
>> install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the
>> airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a
>> digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the
>> T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you
>> would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B.
>>
>> Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an
>> instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping
>> and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the
>> difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth
>> the money.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Gene and all...
I'm upgrading to a color Garmin having terrain alerts. Plan on flying in the
Rocky Mountains and the 196 doesn't have the alert feature. This 196 has a
data card in it for holding additional info, although I only used it on two
occassions when driving in Houston and New Orleans... The data card makes
the 196 VERY helpful in your card for storing info about city streets.
I'm not 100% positive about selling it until next week though, but I cn
highly recommend the 196 for use as a back-up TC and altimeter, among other
features.
If I place this on Ebay, I'll alert the list.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Beenenga" <kgbunltd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga
> <kgbunltd@earthlink.net>
>
> Sterling, i would be interested in your 196, could you enlighten me as to
> why you are selling it, what you are asking for it; what program is in it
> (I live in Illinois) and just curious, what do they sell for new, thanks.
> Gene
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com>
>>Sent: Jan 23, 2006 12:04 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>>
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
>>
>>I agree with Mark. The Garmin 196 works great as a back-up TC in my Cessna
>>and I plan on using it in my Piet. For anybody who hasn't seen the 196 in
>>action, you'll be very impressed.
>>
>>Also, I might be selling my 196 on Ebay later this week.
>>
>>Sterling Brooks
>>Knot-2-Shabby Airport
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:37 AM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>>
>>
>>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell"
>>> <markb1958@verizon.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM
>>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
>>>> <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>>>>
>>>> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH
>>>> this
>>>> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains
>>>> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up
>>>> in
>>>> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no
>>>> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference
>>>> to the Turn and Bank.
>>>>
>>>> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing,
>>>> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A
>>>> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it
>>>> lacks
>>>> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to
>>>> carburetor icing.
>>>>
>>>> Jack Phillips
>>>> NX899JP
>>>
>>> Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have.
>>> Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is
>>> no
>>> fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern
>>> climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern
>>> climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per
>>> thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then
>>> throw
>>> in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have
>>> flown
>>> over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now
>>> live in PA where the problem is even worse.
>>>
>>> A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to
>>> install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the
>>> airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create
>>> a
>>> digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the
>>> T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess,
>>> you
>>> would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B.
>>>
>>> Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an
>>> instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the
>>> piping
>>> and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the
>>> difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth
>>> the money.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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Hi Jim and everyone,
Thanks for those who responded. James I'll be emailing you off list. But I wish
I could come to Broadhead 2008! If it was anything like Broadhead 1997 It
should be fun. I'll be doing alot of traveling this summer and I don't think
I'll be coming. But if its not to much to ask can I get a ride in one at some
point?
Thanks,
Ben
James Dallas <bec176@msn.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "James Dallas"
Ben, The Piet is an excellant first project and the people on this list are
an excellant source of information.
Have Fun
Jim Dallas
>From: Ben Ramler
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:35:37 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hello Pietenpol'ers,
>
> Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live
>over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot
>License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We
>bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and
>at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about
>building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people
>here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the
>aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my
>dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota?
>
>
> Thanks & Take Care,
>
> Ben Ramler
> Granite Falls.
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands
>ASAP.
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 21
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|
Subject: | GPS/was turn and bank indicator |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Well, I own one of them new-fangled GPSMap 196s and the thought did not
escape me that it could be used for some pseudo-instrument maneuvers if the
need arose. I figure it can also be used by the front-seater (instructor)
for checking out somebody in the rear cockpit (41CC has no instruments in
the front cockpit). However, that said- it does have its limitations and
one big one is that the "airspeed indicator" in the GPS's representation of
a 6-pack instrument panel is not reading airspeed... it's reading
groundspeed. You can fly downwind in a moderate breeze and stall the
airplane and it will still show a "safe" airspeed. In short- NOT what you
want to be looking at in cruddy conditions. But for the "HSI", "DG", and
turn/bank indications it could be useful. That life-saving 180 degree turn
out of a sudden VFR flight into a fog bank could be done using that little
GPS if a guy kept his cool.
Now for another problem. If you're over 50, like me, try holding that
little instrument panel out at arm's length in the slipstream so you can
read it, or reach for your reading glasses so you can make out the numbers.
;o)
Thanks to one of you guys (or all; it doesn't matter) Ann at The Gyro House
thinks she can get a filter off one of their core units for me. They don't
have any new ones, but that's fine because I'm flying an airplane that's
supposed to be 75 years old anyway!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: turn and bank indicator |
Mark Blackwell <markb1958@verizon.net> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: "Mark Blackwell"
From: "Phillips, Jack"
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
>
>
> I agree on the Garmin, Mark. I had a Garmin GPSMap 196 with me on that
> trip - I used its NRST button to take me to the nearest airport when I
> got into that mess! (BTW, if you are ever in that area, Huntsville
> Executive is a very nice airport!) I forgot about its instrument
> capabilities, but I doubt it can respond as fast as a Turn & Bank
> indicator - particularly with a plane as slow as a Pietenpol.
>
> While we are on the subject of marginal weather flying, though, I found
> that the Pietenpol is a pretty good plane to fly in such weather. I'm
> comfortable flying the Piet in weather I wouldn't dream of flying a fast
> spam-can in. As I told a friend, "Two miles visibility gives you almost
> two minutes to look at something before you hit it." And since I rarely
> fly it more than 800 feet AGL, low ceilings aren't much of a bother.
> Not that I advocate such flying, of course.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> "Icarus Plummet"
Jack the slower the airplane the more forgiving it is in a low ceiling low
vis situation, but no airplane is really forgiving in such an unforgiving
environment. The accident records are full of such stories, and I do
recognize that you did not condone such flying as I do not.
Yes even in a Piet, the instruments of the 196/296 or any of the Garmins
work quite well to the point of being able to do a full IFR procedure with
nothing but that should the need arise one day. The processor speeds and
update rates make it work well enough and probably better than any other
practical option available for a Piet. It is a strictly emergency
procedure, but it is a viable options.
"Mark Blackwell"
*************
I have flown to that conditions (low ceiling and fog) once, but fortunatly
was in a "trike" weight shift, that is self stable (only drifts by the wind direction)
and in a well known area, but full of montains, I used the Garmin
to turn around (a 180) to safety, and it was scary. This experience was what
made us install a wing leveler auto pilot in our new 701 STOL.,.
Sincerly I hope never need it in the 701.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
---------------------------------
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: New to the List |
Hi Ben,
Many Pietenpols live in Minnesota. At least a half-dozen
on this list including Kirk Huizinga, Tom Brant, Dan Wilson,
Mike Johnson and Dick Navratil. Ken Heide is close by in ND.
I'm sure there are others.
Dale Johnson and I have ours hangared at Stanton (SYN), located
between Northfield and Cannon Falls, about 35 miles south of the
Twin Cities. Stanton has a BIG Father's Day fly-in.
Call me anytime if you want to arrange a visit.
Greg Cardinal
612 721-6235
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List
Hello Pietenpol'ers,
Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live over here
in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot License. Since
1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We bought these plans
when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and at the time I was a Spohmore
in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about building an airplane. I
know that there is a large following of you people here in the upper Midwest.
What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the aircamper be a good first time
projecct. In case you want to know who my dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How
of you are in Minnesota?
Thanks & Take Care,
Ben Ramler
Granite Falls.
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers |
Pieters, Any good ideas for covering the gaps between the wing joints on
a three piece wing other than aluminum strips and wood screws? I have a
flop so it will start and stop at the flop. (8 ft long) Ken in snow covered
Iowa but pretty warm for Jan
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers |
you know Ken......Ken in the english dictionary means very handsome.....sincerely
Ken
Wizzard187@aol.com wrote: Pieters, Any good ideas for covering the gaps
between the wing joints on a three piece wing other than aluminum strips and
wood screws? I have a flop so it will start and stop at the flop. (8 ft long)
Ken in snow covered Iowa but pretty warm for Jan
---------------------------------
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Message 26
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Subject: | New to the list...... |
Ben,
I live in Hawley, Mn and work in Fargo, ND. I travel the tri-state area for
my profession (medical) visiting many clinics and smaller communities. I have
visited with many patients who are flyer's and become great resources to assist
in just about anything you ask for.
Over the past few years, have been donating all of my flying subscriptions
to the veterans home once I am done reading them. Being a marine, I meet quite
a few fellows who can rekindle their memories about flying. Hence.... it keeps
me focused on my project to make sure I can create such great stories for my
children. New a dull moment hearing these stories and seeing the excitement
as they are told.
So, just remember to ask questions and it will lead you down a road full of
information and great connections along the way. My next adventure is to visit
Greg Cardinal for a ride I am truly going to enjoy!
Ken Heide
Hawley, MN
218-486-1963 H
701-364-9100 W
---------------------------------
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Message 27
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Thanks again everyone. But there is one secret I'm holding back on. Believe or
not I already started at some point Building the aircamper! In my dads garage
in St. Joseph. Next time I'm up there if everyone one wants I will take pictures
if everyone likes
take Care,
Ben
---------------------------------
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: New to the List |
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the email. I might take you up on that at some point. I was wondering.
If maybe I can get a ride in your peit?
gcardinal <gcardinal@mn.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Ben,
Many Pietenpols live in Minnesota. At least a half-dozen
on this list including Kirk Huizinga, Tom Brant, Dan Wilson,
Mike Johnson and Dick Navratil. Ken Heide is close by in ND.
I'm sure there are others.
Dale Johnson and I have ours hangared at Stanton (SYN), located
between Northfield and Cannon Falls, about 35 miles south of the
Twin Cities. Stanton has a BIG Father's Day fly-in.
Call me anytime if you want to arrange a visit.
Greg Cardinal
612 721-6235
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List
Hello Pietenpol'ers,
Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live over here
in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot License. Since
1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We bought these plans
when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and at the time I was a Spohmore
in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about building an airplane. I
know that there is a large following of you people here in the upper Midwest.
What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the aircamper be a good first time
projecct. In case you want to know who my dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How
of you are in Minnesota?
Thanks & Take Care,
Ben Ramler
Granite Falls.
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
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