---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/23/06: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:28 AM - turn and bank indicator (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 05:30 AM - Re: Covair engine gauges (Hans Vander Voort) 3. 05:34 AM - Corvair engine gauges (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 05:41 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Phillips, Jack) 5. 05:47 AM - Re: flying (Phillips, Jack) 6. 05:47 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Mark Blackwell) 7. 05:48 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Isablcorky@aol.com) 8. 09:38 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Mark Blackwell) 9. 09:53 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Phillips, Jack) 10. 10:05 AM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Sterling) 11. 11:36 AM - New to the List (Ben Ramler) 12. 12:33 PM - Re: New to the List (Michael D Cuy) 13. 12:37 PM - Re: New to the List (James Dallas) 14. 12:41 PM - Re: New to the List (Phillips, Jack) 15. 01:11 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Mark Blackwell) 16. 01:11 PM - Re: New to the List (Kirk Huizenga) 17. 01:41 PM - Tail Section Hinge Kits (Kenneth M. Heide) 18. 02:23 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Gene Beenenga) 19. 02:39 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Sterling) 20. 02:54 PM - Re: New to the List (Ben Ramler) 21. 02:54 PM - GPS/was turn and bank indicator (Oscar Zuniga) 22. 02:58 PM - Re: turn and bank indicator (Gary Gower) 23. 04:31 PM - Re: New to the List (gcardinal) 24. 04:59 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers (Wizzard187@aol.com) 25. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers (Kenneth M. Heide) 26. 05:27 PM - New to the list...... (Kenneth M. Heide) 27. 05:47 PM - thanks (Ben Ramler) 28. 06:09 PM - Re: New to the List (Ben Ramler) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:58 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Mark wrote- >I don't know if you are planning on having a limited electrical system. Yes, a very limited electrical system is installed on 41CC... NONE! >If I were not planning to have a starter or other small electrical system, >I probably would just have the inclinometer and forget the turn an bank Yes, I would too... but the airplane was constructed and flown with a venturi and T&B, as well as a VSI, before I bought it from Corky. I'd rather keep everything in service than remove them, save weight, and have to build a new instrument panel. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covair engine gauges From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Rick, I used the Westach instruments that Clarks had listed in their catalog with remote senders. My front cockpit has two CHT Gauges (one for LH and one for RH cylinder head) the lead wires are just long enough to reach the engine. I did not feel the need for a EGT Hans Rick Holland To Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Covair engine gauges 01/22/2006 08:15 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Question for you Piet/Corvair building concerning engine gauges. Am planning to use Autometer engine gauges as WW recommends. Question concerns the type of oil pressure and temperature gauges to get. Do I want use gauges with remote senders so I don't have to run tubes with hot oil into the cockpit? Also, any opinions on the need for CHT and EGT gauges with a Corvair engine? Thanks -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:21 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine gauges --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Rick asks- >Am planning to use Autometer engine gauges as WW recommends. >Question concerns the type of oil pressure and temperature gauges to get. >Do I want use gauges with remote senders so I don't have to run tubes >with hot oil into the cockpit? Absolutely. I think that was one of William's main points about using these gauges. Since the Corvair requires an electrical system to power the ignition, you've got juice so by all means use electric gauges and simplify things. >Also, any opinions on the need for CHT and EGT gauges with a Corvair >engine? Always a good idea, but not essential to flight. You can get a small combination EGT/CHT gauge from WesTach and others. I think if you didn't want one on the panel permanently, you could temporarily mount one somewhere for test flights to at least ensure that your cooling systems and everything else was up to snuff, then remove it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference to the Turn and Bank. A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing, with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to carburetor icing. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Mark wrote- >I don't know if you are planning on having a limited electrical system. Yes, a very limited electrical system is installed on 41CC... NONE! >If I were not planning to have a starter or other small electrical system, >I probably would just have the inclinometer and forget the turn an bank Yes, I would too... but the airplane was constructed and flown with a venturi and T&B, as well as a VSI, before I bought it from Corky. I'd rather keep everything in service than remove them, save weight, and have to build a new instrument panel. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: flying From: "Phillips, Jack" Finally flew mine Friday for the first time since October. Clear blue sky, 59 degrees, no wind. I took the day off, rebuilt the brakes and flew it for nearly an hour. Unfortunately I forgot to bring gloves and my hands got cold. I've been flying an RV-4 a lot since October and it has about ruined me as a pilot. It was good to get back in the Pietenpol and fly a plane that you have to think about when landing. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying In a message dated 1/19/2006 10:57:48 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net writes: There's been some good chat on building lately, but with the winter weather is anybody getting any flying in? It's too cold around here and I have mine all torn down changing the axle and re-doing the fuel system. The weather must be good somewhere. Dick N My prop is still on the work table, and I've still got to finish my new seat, and some other stuff. 59=BA and mild winds today. I've missed some great flying weather. :( Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:53 AM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" > >>I don't know if you are planning on having a limited electrical system. > > Yes, a very limited electrical system is installed on 41CC... NONE! > >>If I were not planning to have a starter or other small electrical system, >>I probably would just have the inclinometer and forget the turn an bank > > Yes, I would too... but the airplane was constructed and flown with a > venturi and T&B, as well as a VSI, before I bought it from Corky. I'd > rather keep everything in service than remove them, save weight, and have > to build a new instrument panel. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > Sorry Oscar. I didn't catch on to the fact that this was an existing installation. In that case there are a number of places that will rebuild the one you have without a great deal of money. Check out a current trade a plane. Most of the lower priced shops are there. You can either ship that one to them and have them rebuild that one for you, or they will send you one for the exchange and keep the down time as low as possible. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:01 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator Thanks Jack Corky ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:00 AM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" > > > A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this > summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains > of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in > the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no > horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference > to the Turn and Bank. > > A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing, > with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A > venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks > the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to > carburetor icing. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have. Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now live in PA where the problem is even worse. A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B. Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth the money. > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" I agree on the Garmin, Mark. I had a Garmin GPSMap 196 with me on that trip - I used its NRST button to take me to the nearest airport when I got into that mess! (BTW, if you are ever in that area, Huntsville Executive is a very nice airport!) I forgot about its instrument capabilities, but I doubt it can respond as fast as a Turn & Bank indicator - particularly with a plane as slow as a Pietenpol. While we are on the subject of marginal weather flying, though, I found that the Pietenpol is a pretty good plane to fly in such weather. I'm comfortable flying the Piet in weather I wouldn't dream of flying a fast spam-can in. As I told a friend, "Two miles visibility gives you almost two minutes to look at something before you hit it." And since I rarely fly it more than 800 feet AGL, low ceilings aren't much of a bother. Not that I advocate such flying, of course. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Blackwell Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" > > > A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this > summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains > of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in > the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no > horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference > to the Turn and Bank. > > A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing, > with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A > venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks > the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to > carburetor icing. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have. Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now live in PA where the problem is even worse. A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B. Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth the money. > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:30 AM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" I agree with Mark. The Garmin 196 works great as a back-up TC in my Cessna and I plan on using it in my Piet. For anybody who hasn't seen the 196 in action, you'll be very impressed. Also, I might be selling my 196 on Ebay later this week. Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Blackwell" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phillips, Jack" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" >> >> >> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this >> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains >> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in >> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no >> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference >> to the Turn and Bank. >> >> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing, >> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A >> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks >> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to >> carburetor icing. >> >> Jack Phillips >> NX899JP > > Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have. > Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no > fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern > climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern > climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per > thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw > in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown > over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now > live in PA where the problem is even worse. > > A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to > install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the > airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a > digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the > T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you > would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B. > > Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an > instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping > and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the > difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth > the money. >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:08 AM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Hello Pietenpol'ers, Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota? Thanks & Take Care, Ben Ramler Granite Falls. --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:37 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Ben-- the guy you want to talk to is Chris Bobka in MSP. He is a world-renowned expert in Pietenpols and small aircraft engines. I think Dick Navratil is from MN too....but not positve. I know he winters in FL. Welcome to the list ! PS-- take a shop course in gas welding or if you have access to a TIG unit use that for your metal fittings. If you can make metal fittings that is half the battle. More than 1/2 acutally. The woodwork is pretty easy, but the metal work and welding are the time-consuming portions of the plane. PSS-- get ALL of the Tony Bingelis books from EAA on building homebuilts. You can order them on the EAA web site. I think the set of 4 books are something like $80. VERY much worth the money. Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:42 PM PST US From: "James Dallas" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New to the List --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "James Dallas" Ben, The Piet is an excellant first project and the people on this list are an excellant source of information. Have Fun Jim Dallas >From: Ben Ramler >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:35:37 -0800 (PST) > >Hello Pietenpol'ers, > > Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live >over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot >License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We >bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and >at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about >building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people >here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the >aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my >dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota? > > > Thanks & Take Care, > > Ben Ramler > Granite Falls. > > >--------------------------------- > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands >ASAP. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New to the List From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Good advice, Mike Also Ben, Greg Cardinal is from Minneapolis. He and Dale Johnson built a beautiful Pietenpol. You should plan to attend Brodhead this July. Jack Phillips Pietenpol NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Ben-- the guy you want to talk to is Chris Bobka in MSP. He is a world-renowned expert in Pietenpols and small aircraft engines. I think Dick Navratil is from MN too....but not positve. I know he winters in FL. Welcome to the list ! PS-- take a shop course in gas welding or if you have access to a TIG unit use that for your metal fittings. If you can make metal fittings that is half the battle. More than 1/2 acutally. The woodwork is pretty easy, but the metal work and welding are the time-consuming portions of the plane. PSS-- get ALL of the Tony Bingelis books from EAA on building homebuilts. You can order them on the EAA web site. I think the set of 4 books are something like $80. VERY much worth the money. Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:29 PM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" From: "Phillips, Jack" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" > > > I agree on the Garmin, Mark. I had a Garmin GPSMap 196 with me on that > trip - I used its NRST button to take me to the nearest airport when I > got into that mess! (BTW, if you are ever in that area, Huntsville > Executive is a very nice airport!) I forgot about its instrument > capabilities, but I doubt it can respond as fast as a Turn & Bank > indicator - particularly with a plane as slow as a Pietenpol. > > While we are on the subject of marginal weather flying, though, I found > that the Pietenpol is a pretty good plane to fly in such weather. I'm > comfortable flying the Piet in weather I wouldn't dream of flying a fast > spam-can in. As I told a friend, "Two miles visibility gives you almost > two minutes to look at something before you hit it." And since I rarely > fly it more than 800 feet AGL, low ceilings aren't much of a bother. > Not that I advocate such flying, of course. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > "Icarus Plummet" Jack the slower the airplane the more forgiving it is in a low ceiling low vis situation, but no airplane is really forgiving in such an unforgiving environment. The accident records are full of such stories, and I do recognize that you did not condone such flying as I do not. Yes even in a Piet, the instruments of the 196/296 or any of the Garmins work quite well to the point of being able to do a full IFR procedure with nothing but that should the need arise one day. The processor speeds and update rates make it work well enough and probably better than any other practical option available for a Piet. It is a strictly emergency procedure, but it is a viable options. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:30 PM PST US From: Kirk Huizenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Ben, Welcome. I'm in St Paul also. Come East and visit anytime. Kirk Kirk Huizenga Community Expert kirk.huizenga@moundsviewschools.org 651.482.8203 my views are not necessarily the view of my employer ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:08 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Section Hinge Kits The new price for the hinge kit from Vi Kapler is $ 60.00. The hinges now come completely finished. These are the tail section hinge kits. PLease send your check or money order to: Vitalis Kapler's Address is 1033 Forest Hills Drive SW - Rochester, MN 55902 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:45 PM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga Sterling, i would be interested in your 196, could you enlighten me as to why you are selling it, what you are asking for it; what program is in it (I live in Illinois) and just curious, what do they sell for new, thanks. Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Sterling >Sent: Jan 23, 2006 12:04 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" > >I agree with Mark. The Garmin 196 works great as a back-up TC in my Cessna >and I plan on using it in my Piet. For anybody who hasn't seen the 196 in >action, you'll be very impressed. > >Also, I might be selling my 196 on Ebay later this week. > >Sterling Brooks >Knot-2-Shabby Airport > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark Blackwell" >To: >Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:37 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Phillips, Jack" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator >> >> >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" >>> >>> >>> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH this >>> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains >>> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up in >>> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no >>> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference >>> to the Turn and Bank. >>> >>> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing, >>> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A >>> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it lacks >>> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to >>> carburetor icing. >>> >>> Jack Phillips >>> NX899JP >> >> Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have. >> Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is no >> fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern >> climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern >> climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per >> thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then throw >> in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have flown >> over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now >> live in PA where the problem is even worse. >> >> A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to >> install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the >> airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create a >> digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the >> T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, you >> would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B. >> >> Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an >> instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the piping >> and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the >> difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth >> the money. >>> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:32 PM PST US From: "Sterling" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" Gene and all... I'm upgrading to a color Garmin having terrain alerts. Plan on flying in the Rocky Mountains and the 196 doesn't have the alert feature. This 196 has a data card in it for holding additional info, although I only used it on two occassions when driving in Houston and New Orleans... The data card makes the 196 VERY helpful in your card for storing info about city streets. I'm not 100% positive about selling it until next week though, but I cn highly recommend the 196 for use as a back-up TC and altimeter, among other features. If I place this on Ebay, I'll alert the list. Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Beenenga" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga > > > Sterling, i would be interested in your 196, could you enlighten me as to > why you are selling it, what you are asking for it; what program is in it > (I live in Illinois) and just curious, what do they sell for new, thanks. > Gene > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Sterling >>Sent: Jan 23, 2006 12:04 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator >> >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" >> >>I agree with Mark. The Garmin 196 works great as a back-up TC in my Cessna >>and I plan on using it in my Piet. For anybody who hasn't seen the 196 in >>action, you'll be very impressed. >> >>Also, I might be selling my 196 on Ebay later this week. >> >>Sterling Brooks >>Knot-2-Shabby Airport >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mark Blackwell" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:37 AM >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator >> >> >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Phillips, Jack" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 AM >>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator >>> >>> >>>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" >>>> >>>> >>>> A working T&B is a good thing to have. On my journey home from OSH >>>> this >>>> summer, I got into some heavy rain and low ceilings over the mountains >>>> of northern Alabama. Visibility was low and the mountaintops were up >>>> in >>>> the clouds. I had to pick my way through the valleys and could see no >>>> horizon at all. The only way to keep the plane level was by reference >>>> to the Turn and Bank. >>>> >>>> A venturi system can ice up, but it has to be pretty close to freezing, >>>> with visible moisture (not a likely time to be flying a Pietenpol). A >>>> venturi does not ice nearly as readily as a carburetor, because it >>>> lacks >>>> the evaporative cooling of the gasoline which contributes greatly to >>>> carburetor icing. >>>> >>>> Jack Phillips >>>> NX899JP >>> >>> Jack I don't disagree with you about it being a good thing to have. >>> Visible mositure is that cloud you can stumble into and though there is >>> no >>> fuel going through the tube, the cooling is significant. In southern >>> climates I would guess it would be less important, but in northern >>> climates it much more so. A 50 degree day at the surface, 3 degs per >>> thousand feet temp drop, and another drop from the venturi and then >>> throw >>> in condensation from the temp drop and it can be a problem. I have >>> flown >>> over the hills in Alabama many times and know of what you speak. I now >>> live in PA where the problem is even worse. >>> >>> A better solution in my opinion is a Garmin 296. Far less hassle to >>> install, lighter and more important would add far more capability to the >>> airplane to enjoy it. The 296 has a screen that uses the GPS to create >>> a >>> digital panel that has all 6 of the main flight instruments not just the >>> T&B. If you ever got caught where you needed it to get out of a mess, >>> you >>> would in my opinion be much better off than with just a T&B. >>> >>> Cost is an issue, but by the time you spend a couple hundred for an >>> instrument that works reasonably well, finding an old venturi, the >>> piping >>> and connection hardware ect and the time involved to do it all, well the >>> difference spent for what is gain for me personally is a trade off worth >>> the money. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:03 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Hi Jim and everyone, Thanks for those who responded. James I'll be emailing you off list. But I wish I could come to Broadhead 2008! If it was anything like Broadhead 1997 It should be fun. I'll be doing alot of traveling this summer and I don't think I'll be coming. But if its not to much to ask can I get a ride in one at some point? Thanks, Ben James Dallas wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "James Dallas" Ben, The Piet is an excellant first project and the people on this list are an excellant source of information. Have Fun Jim Dallas >From: Ben Ramler >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:35:37 -0800 (PST) > >Hello Pietenpol'ers, > > Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live >over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot >License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We >bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and >at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about >building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people >here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the >aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my >dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota? > > > Thanks & Take Care, > > Ben Ramler > Granite Falls. > > >--------------------------------- > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands >ASAP. --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:04 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: GPS/was turn and bank indicator --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Well, I own one of them new-fangled GPSMap 196s and the thought did not escape me that it could be used for some pseudo-instrument maneuvers if the need arose. I figure it can also be used by the front-seater (instructor) for checking out somebody in the rear cockpit (41CC has no instruments in the front cockpit). However, that said- it does have its limitations and one big one is that the "airspeed indicator" in the GPS's representation of a 6-pack instrument panel is not reading airspeed... it's reading groundspeed. You can fly downwind in a moderate breeze and stall the airplane and it will still show a "safe" airspeed. In short- NOT what you want to be looking at in cruddy conditions. But for the "HSI", "DG", and turn/bank indications it could be useful. That life-saving 180 degree turn out of a sudden VFR flight into a fog bank could be done using that little GPS if a guy kept his cool. Now for another problem. If you're over 50, like me, try holding that little instrument panel out at arm's length in the slipstream so you can read it, or reach for your reading glasses so you can make out the numbers. ;o) Thanks to one of you guys (or all; it doesn't matter) Ann at The Gyro House thinks she can get a filter off one of their core units for me. They don't have any new ones, but that's fine because I'm flying an airplane that's supposed to be 75 years old anyway! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:02 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator Mark Blackwell wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" From: "Phillips, Jack" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: turn and bank indicator > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" > > > I agree on the Garmin, Mark. I had a Garmin GPSMap 196 with me on that > trip - I used its NRST button to take me to the nearest airport when I > got into that mess! (BTW, if you are ever in that area, Huntsville > Executive is a very nice airport!) I forgot about its instrument > capabilities, but I doubt it can respond as fast as a Turn & Bank > indicator - particularly with a plane as slow as a Pietenpol. > > While we are on the subject of marginal weather flying, though, I found > that the Pietenpol is a pretty good plane to fly in such weather. I'm > comfortable flying the Piet in weather I wouldn't dream of flying a fast > spam-can in. As I told a friend, "Two miles visibility gives you almost > two minutes to look at something before you hit it." And since I rarely > fly it more than 800 feet AGL, low ceilings aren't much of a bother. > Not that I advocate such flying, of course. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > "Icarus Plummet" Jack the slower the airplane the more forgiving it is in a low ceiling low vis situation, but no airplane is really forgiving in such an unforgiving environment. The accident records are full of such stories, and I do recognize that you did not condone such flying as I do not. Yes even in a Piet, the instruments of the 196/296 or any of the Garmins work quite well to the point of being able to do a full IFR procedure with nothing but that should the need arise one day. The processor speeds and update rates make it work well enough and probably better than any other practical option available for a Piet. It is a strictly emergency procedure, but it is a viable options. "Mark Blackwell" ************* I have flown to that conditions (low ceiling and fog) once, but fortunatly was in a "trike" weight shift, that is self stable (only drifts by the wind direction) and in a well known area, but full of montains, I used the Garmin to turn around (a 180) to safety, and it was scary. This experience was what made us install a wing leveler auto pilot in our new 701 STOL.,. Sincerly I hope never need it in the 701. Saludos Gary Gower. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:02 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Hi Ben, Many Pietenpols live in Minnesota. At least a half-dozen on this list including Kirk Huizinga, Tom Brant, Dan Wilson, Mike Johnson and Dick Navratil. Ken Heide is close by in ND. I'm sure there are others. Dale Johnson and I have ours hangared at Stanton (SYN), located between Northfield and Cannon Falls, about 35 miles south of the Twin Cities. Stanton has a BIG Father's Day fly-in. Call me anytime if you want to arrange a visit. Greg Cardinal 612 721-6235 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Hello Pietenpol'ers, Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota? Thanks & Take Care, Ben Ramler Granite Falls. Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:08 PM PST US From: Wizzard187@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers Pieters, Any good ideas for covering the gaps between the wing joints on a three piece wing other than aluminum strips and wood screws? I have a flop so it will start and stop at the flop. (8 ft long) Ken in snow covered Iowa but pretty warm for Jan ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:17 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List wing gap covers you know Ken......Ken in the english dictionary means very handsome.....sincerely Ken Wizzard187@aol.com wrote: Pieters, Any good ideas for covering the gaps between the wing joints on a three piece wing other than aluminum strips and wood screws? I have a flop so it will start and stop at the flop. (8 ft long) Ken in snow covered Iowa but pretty warm for Jan --------------------------------- Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:39 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list...... Ben, I live in Hawley, Mn and work in Fargo, ND. I travel the tri-state area for my profession (medical) visiting many clinics and smaller communities. I have visited with many patients who are flyer's and become great resources to assist in just about anything you ask for. Over the past few years, have been donating all of my flying subscriptions to the veterans home once I am done reading them. Being a marine, I meet quite a few fellows who can rekindle their memories about flying. Hence.... it keeps me focused on my project to make sure I can create such great stories for my children. New a dull moment hearing these stories and seeing the excitement as they are told. So, just remember to ask questions and it will lead you down a road full of information and great connections along the way. My next adventure is to visit Greg Cardinal for a ride I am truly going to enjoy! Ken Heide Hawley, MN 218-486-1963 H 701-364-9100 W --------------------------------- Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:55 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Pietenpol-List: thanks Thanks again everyone. But there is one secret I'm holding back on. Believe or not I already started at some point Building the aircamper! In my dads garage in St. Joseph. Next time I'm up there if everyone one wants I will take pictures if everyone likes take Care, Ben --------------------------------- Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:02 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Hi Greg, Thanks for the email. I might take you up on that at some point. I was wondering. If maybe I can get a ride in your peit? gcardinal wrote: Hi Ben, Many Pietenpols live in Minnesota. At least a half-dozen on this list including Kirk Huizinga, Tom Brant, Dan Wilson, Mike Johnson and Dick Navratil. Ken Heide is close by in ND. I'm sure there are others. Dale Johnson and I have ours hangared at Stanton (SYN), located between Northfield and Cannon Falls, about 35 miles south of the Twin Cities. Stanton has a BIG Father's Day fly-in. Call me anytime if you want to arrange a visit. Greg Cardinal 612 721-6235 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the List Hello Pietenpol'ers, Hows everyone doing today? I'm good. My name is Ben Ramler. I live over here in Granite Falls, MN. I'm thinking about getting my Sport Pilot License. Since 1996 my dad has owned plans to build an Aircramper. We bought these plans when we went down to Austin, MN to see Orrin Hoopman and at the time I was a Spohmore in High School. I'm now 25 and thinking about building an airplane. I know that there is a large following of you people here in the upper Midwest. What I'd like to ask you all is this. Would the aircamper be a good first time projecct. In case you want to know who my dad is His name is Jerry Ramler. How of you are in Minnesota? Thanks & Take Care, Ben Ramler Granite Falls. --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.