Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: Rats! (harvey rule)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 01/25/06 (tbyh@aol.com)
3. 06:11 AM - Re: The rats ate my glue. (Robert Gow)
4. 06:21 AM - Re: Rats! (TRichmo9@aol.com)
5. 08:31 AM - Re: Static Load Testing (Hans Vander Voort)
6. 08:59 AM - Nav questions (Ben Ramler)
7. 10:00 AM - Re: Nav questions (Phillips, Jack)
8. 10:05 AM - Digital Sectionals & Terminals (Kirk Huizenga)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: Nav questions (Ben Ramler)
10. 10:37 AM - Re: Nav questions (Phillips, Jack)
11. 11:21 AM - Re: Nav questions (Hans Vander Voort)
12. 11:25 AM - Re: Nav questions (Steve Ruse)
13. 12:08 PM - I'm in!! (Scott S.)
14. 12:19 PM - piet for sale again (Carl)
15. 12:35 PM - Re: I'm in!! (Rob Riggen)
16. 12:50 PM - Welcome, Scott ! (Michael D Cuy)
17. 01:35 PM - Re: Welcome, Scott ! (Phillips, Jack)
18. 02:09 PM - Re: Welcome, Scott ! (Scott S.)
19. 02:48 PM - Re: Nav questions (Ben Ramler)
20. 03:16 PM - Re: Welcome, Scott ! (Rcaprd@aol.com)
21. 03:31 PM - Re: I'm in!! ()
22. 04:24 PM - Re: Static Load Testing (Malcolm Morrison)
23. 04:28 PM - Re: Nav questions (Dick Navratil)
24. 05:22 PM - Re: Welcome, Scott ! (Glenn Thomas)
25. 05:38 PM - C85 for trade (Dan Sherburn)
26. 06:11 PM - Piet needed for photo project (Mark Blackwell)
27. 06:15 PM - Re: Static Load Testing (HVandervoo@aol.com)
28. 06:34 PM - Re: Rat clarification (ate my glue follow up...) (Dick Navratil)
29. 09:35 PM - Re: Nav questions (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
30. 09:44 PM - Re: Rat clarification (ate my glue follow up...) (TRichmo9@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
By the time you finish buying the managery this guy is talking about
,you won't be able to afford a Piet anyways.Open up a zoo and charge
people to come in to see every other animal eating each other.You won't
have time for the Piet either.You'll be too busy running all you new
business's.I gotta go back and read this again because I keep forgetting
who ate who and what you have to get next.Buy a South American Anaconda
and you won't have anything left alive including yourself!HAHAHAHA!Great
story.Almost as much fun as hearing about Piets!
Mike Whaley wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Ken Chambers wrote:
>
> > the rats have dragged the T-88 Part B Hardener away and
> > chewed up the bottle. I thought I had them all killed off
>
> OK, here's whatcha do:
>
> First off, buy a snake. A large rat snake, perhaps. Snakes eat rats. Rat
> snakes are a pretty sure bet for eating rats. Unless it's a small rat snake.
> Then they'll only eat mice. But strangely, there's no such thing as a mouse
> snake. You'd think a small rat snake would be a mouse snake, but it's not.
> It's just a small rat snake. Which should be just fine with you, though,
> since you have a rat problem, not a mouse problem. There's a difference
> between the two, you know. Mice are the cuter of the two.
>
> Anyway, release your rat snake into your shop, and wait a month or two for
> him to eat all the rats. You'll probably rarely see the snake, and
> eventually you won't see any rats. You won't see any mice, either. But don't
> jump to conclusions and assume that your big rat snake also ate your mice.
> Especially considering that you didn't see any mice in the first place. I
> sure hope you don't always jump to conclusions that quickly.
>
> So now you have no more rats, and one fat snake. NOW, you (or your spouse)
> might decide that you really don't want a big ole snake hanging around the
> shop where it might startle you while you're using the fly cutter on your
> instrument panel or something. SO, now you should do what any sane person
> would do: buy a king snake. King snakes eat other snakes, as you might be
> aware. And they'll also finish up any rats that the rat snake missed. Mice
> too, even though you don't have any. King snakes aren't rodent snobs.
>
> Now you have an even bigger king snake to deal with. What to do? Well,
> duh... get on eBay and put a bid in on a mongoose. Mongeese (?) eat snakes,
> as everyone knows. Any old mongoose should do... well, they hunt in teams,
> so better get three. Don't want to interrupt a natural behavior that's been
> highly tuned and developed over the last few thousand years now, do we?
> Good. I don't know how to pick a good mongoose from a bad one, but I'm sure
> that you can get on Google and find out. Or just go to
> "www.howtopickareallygoodmongooseforyourworkshop.com" or a similar site to
> help you out. Remember, the key to smart mongoosing is to do your homework.
>
> Now, realize that mongoosae (?) are mischievous little critters, and they'll
> likely cause all sorts of havoc around the farm. So now is a good time to
> get into the market for a largish hawk. A red-tail or Cooper's hawk would
> probably be about right, while a chicken hawk or Ethan Hawke is right out.
> New or used, it doesn't really matter... just make sure it's a live hawk.
> You might scare the mongoosia pretty bad at first with a cheap dead hawk,
> but sooner or later they'll catch on, and be right back to their old tricks.
> And then, they won't even respect you for trying to trick them with a dead
> hawk. Plus you're stuck with a stinky, dead bird of prey on your hands...
> you'll be lucky if you can sell it for as much as you paid. Avoid this
> common trap that inexperienced raptor buyers often fall into, and buy a live
> hawk to start with. Some hawk hawkers may try to sell you a hawk in a coma
> or drunken stupor or an otherwise not entirely well bird, at a reduced
> price. This can be a dangerous gamble, and I don't recommend taking this
> risk except for those who really know what they're doing. The Better Birding
> Bureau (BBB) is rife with reports of shady and unscrupulous hawkers offering
> inferior predatory poultry to rookie raptor requisitioners.
>
> Once a suitable hawk has been obtained, set it out on teh back fencepost and
> see if it will try to catch the mongooses. The hawk, however, will need lots
> of room to perch, fly, catch prey, etc. so be sure to keep him outside at
> all times. He could actually fly away, however. To help keep him around your
> house (you never know when he'll leave to hunt for your neighbor's mongoose,
> which is just poor form and considered quite rude, unless they actually
> invite you to share in their personal weaseldom) you need to get a couple of
> rabbits.
>
> Umm, wait a minute... we have 3 pet rabbits, and I'd really hate to think of
> a cute little bunny getting eaten by a hawk, or anything else for that
> matter. Which is even scarier since a lot of things have been known to eat
> rabbits, including mongooses. So on second thought, keep the bunnies
> indoors. They make great house pets, they're more affectionate than a cat (a
> lot smarter, too) and they'll probably get along with the dogs just fine.
> Heck, ours think they ARE dogs. With luck you might even train a
> particularly ambitious bunny to help you round up cattle. But I digress.
>
> So go buy some baby quail chicks instead. They don't cost much and they'll
> keep the hawk coming around. They're also not terribly noisy.
>
> The quail which manage to survive the hawks, mongii (?), and king snakes
> will probably reproduce like crazy, seeing as how they live on a nice big
> grain farm and all. But that's OK. Since I somehow forgot to mention the
> finer points of living with house rabbits a couple of paragraphs ago, and
> your attention has been diverted with ordering and raising your quail
> chicks, I suspect that by now you're realizing that you REALLY should have
> had at least one of your original two rabbits fixed as a couple dozen of
> their descendants have now magically appeared. They're all cute, and thank
> the good Lord above that they're litter-trained, but honestly... they're
> starting to eat you out of house and home, and you're starting to have
> litter and chew toys delivered on pallets. Worse, they're jumping all over
> the furniture when company comes over, they're molting all over the carpet,
> and they like to nip at your toes when you don't scratch their foreheads
> fast enough. You need a break from the long-eared hordes, don't you?
>
> So go grab your gun, walk outside with the dog (he needs a break from his
> new friends too, who like him but have affectionately licked his forehead to
> the point he's got bald spots) and flush out some quail. Shoot at them. Try
> not to hit the hawk, as that's illegal in most states. Don't hit the dog,
> either, that's just plain wrong.
>
> Ahh, that's better... and now you have a nice quail dinner to boot. Too bad
> there's no salad to go with it, since the bunnies smelled lettuce and
> managed to pry open the refrigerator door while you were outside. By the
> time dinner's over, you find that you have fifty-seven more rabbits in the
> bedroom alone. It takes an hour and forty-five minutes to herd them all into
> their hutch (the entire second floor of your 12-room farmhouse) for the
> night, and you're really starting to miss being able to enjoy your "CSI:
> Spring Valley" reruns on Thursday nights.
>
> As the commotion upstairs finally dies down to a dull roar of thumps,
> scratching, jumping, and the gentle sound of chewing on hay, you are finally
> able to drop off into an exhausted slumber, slumped in your rabbit-chewed,
> carrot-stained easy chair under a picture of a Pietenpol.
>
> And as you drift quickly off to Dreamland, you quietly long for the good old
> days, when your biggest worry in life was having a couple of glue-snorting
> rats wandering through the workshop...
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
> Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
> http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 01/25/06 |
Speaking of rats, I recommend an old movie called "King Rat." Came out in the 1960s
and stars George Segal. About some Allied POWs in a Japanese prison camp.
They raise rats...I'd tell you what they do with the rats, but it would spoil
the movie for you...aside from the POW's situation, a very homorous movie as
I recall.
No snow here in the American Siberia. We had several days below zero back in December
-- I've only been out ice fishing once this winter -- but since New Years
it has been consistently in the 30s every day and today we expect to hit 40
degrees. Warmest January on record. Generally we've had a day or two of minus
10 to 20 degrees by now.
As for my Piet I hope to install the last landing gear strut fitting on the fuselage
this weekend, then the struts and then should have it on the wheels soon
after that. I went ahead and bought a pair of Harley "Fat Boy" disk wheels --
I think they will look great and are plenty strong (maybe a little heavy), but
you never know, I could change my mind and go with spoked wheels after all...
Keep on building!
Fred Beseler
La Crosse, WI
Message 3
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| Subject: | The rats ate my glue. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
We have gun control in Canada but we are having a hard time to get the
criminals to register their guns.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sterling
Sent: January 25, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The rats ate my glue.
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Joe:
I have a farm and I raise rats. Mostly large rats, but a few pack rats that
are notorious for eating wires, hydraulic lines, rubber hoses, tractors...
What works pretty well for me is Bar Bait... But you have to be careful to
keep it out of the reach of dogs and cats. Bar Bait can be purchased at most
famr stores. If and when I see rats during daylight, my Remington ADL 22-250
is extraordinarily effective, yet a lot more expensive than Bar Bait. I
don't recommend the Remington if you have neighbors. I live in Texas and
most folks down here have Remingtons, even my florist has a gun...
Good luck with the rats. I'm very confident my methods for eradication will
serve you well.
(I would like to appologize in advance to any on the list who are gun
control advocates... We were raised with guns down here and it's in our
blood...;)
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport/farm & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The rats ate my glue.
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes@hotmail.com>
>
> I suggest giving them part A too. Might solve the problem.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers"
>><ken@prototype-ideas.com>
>>
>>
>>For the second time since I moved into this old house, the rats have
>>dragged
>>the T-88 Part B Hardener away and chewed up the bottle. I thought I had
>>them
>>all killed off and the holes patched up, but there must be a couple coming
>>through somewhere.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
Message 4
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my wife uses a bar of stuff called first bite it kills the rats but wont
hurt the dogs and cats tom
Message 5
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| Subject: | Static Load Testing |
Malcolm,
I graduated with engineering degree but it was a long, long time ago.
And my current occupation does not require this expertise.
So I am a little rusty.
Anyway see attached schematics of loads on struts and wings. (a picture
tells more than a thousand words)
They are very generic and based on static loads.
I did make one on your setup also, at least what I understand your setup to
be.
Just to see the difference.
You have a increased load of 40% on your cabane struts!
And a decrease on the wing struts of 10%
Of course I assumed some dimensions but please consider that not all loads
are vertical!
I am not sure I understand what you mean by elliptical lift distribution,
you mean cord wise or span wise?
Span wise would be wrong as a rectangular wing (without washout) would be a
linear load. (equal on every foot / rib)
Cord wise you could consider elliptical.
I assumed the front spar to carry 75% of the load.
Assumptions on the center section creating lift are only that.
The center section is far less efficient than the wings.
Prop-wash, struts, wires and windscreens will see to that.
But for the purpose of simplicity I am OK with it.
Another thought to keep in mind: all calculation are based on Gross weight.
But of course the only thing hanging on the struts is the complete
fuselage.
The wing weight could be deducted but for simplicity sake, I used the gross
number.
Any comments are welcome, but keep in mind, these are very generic.
I based the my calcs on no-washout, no dihedral, 24 inch cabane struts.
Hans
(See attached file: load test.pdf)
"Malcolm
Morrison"
<morrisons5@adelp To
hia.net> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent by: cc
owner-pietenpol-l
ist-server@matron Subject
ics.com RE: Pietenpol-List: Static Load
Testing
01/25/2006 09:46
PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Malcolm Morrison"
<morrisons5@adelphia.net>
Rich, Hans
I am an engineer, but not the kind that counts. I work in software and
systems, not aerodynamics or structures. So, please take that into account
when you consider any structural assumptions that I make.
I ran some numbers on the forces on a Piet wing today and this is what I
came up with. Assuming an 1100 lb airplane at 3 Gs, or 3300 lbs, and a
rectangular wing exhibiting an elliptical lift distribution. A plans built
center section would provide 293 lbs of lift, and each wing panel would
provide 1503.5 lbs of lift. The pull force on the cabanes from the center
section would be 146.5 for each side. With 2 cabanes on each side you
could
divide this number in half for 73.25 lbs on each cabane if you assume that
the front and rear cabanes each receive the same force. The force on the
outer panel is a little more complex since the unsupported wing tip induces
a torque around the lift strut - wing attach point. The result of this is
an additional 248 lbs of upward pull on each cabane pair, for a total of
394.5 lbs This leaves 1255.5 lbs lifting force for each wing panel at the
lift strut attach points.
My modification of making a 4 foot center section will have very little
affect on these forces. The wider center section has more lifting force
than the plans version, but the shorter wing panels induce less torque, and
less additional upward force on the cabanes. The cabane struts will be
subject to 401 lbs pull on each pair (a 2% increase over plans), and the
lift struts will have a 1249 lbs pull (0.4% decrease).
These forces affect the fuselage structure in two ways. First, the wing
center section is trying to pull itself upward, off the fuselage. The
cabane struts, wires, attach points, and fuselage structure work against
this pull, which is 800 lbs. To test this structure I would need to
support
the fuselage upside down from points where the forces are exerted on the
fuselage structure. This could be the bottom of the cabane mounts, the
cockpit floor, and possible the firewall. I don't think that tail should
be
supported since The other force comes from the wing panels pulling upward
at 1255.5 lbs each. This results in an outward pull at the fuselage - lift
strut attach point of 2188 lbs each (only 1724 lbs each on the modified
version due to the shorter panels). To test this I could rest the inverted
center section on a box and load the wing panels appropriately. I have
doubled size of the steel strap since I'm using a 'V' strut arrangement and
there is only one strap. I will keep the cross strap attached to the ash
cross member with additional short straps.
Anybody agree, disagree with these numbers or thoughts ;-)
Malcolm
http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html
Message 6
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Hello,
Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was wondering
if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was looking at the Lowarence
AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I would like to announce
that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
EAA # 793475
---------------------------------
Message 7
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Good for you, Ben, on joining the EAA.
I use a Garmin GPSMap 196 in my Pietenpol. Got me from Raleigh, NC to
Brodhead, Oshkosh and back home via west Tennessee last summer. 2,147
miles of flying. Put 37 hours on the airplane. GPS is great for
getting through the mountains, because you can deviate from your course
to go around a ridge or follow a valley, and still find your way back on
course. Of course it is also useful for finding favorable winds (on
that trip, flying from Oshkosh to Jackson Tennessee, I managed to do 95
knots groundspeed most of the way. Amazing what a 30 knot tailwind can
do for you!).
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
Hello,
Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was
wondering if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was
looking at the Lowarence AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I
would like to announce that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
EAA # 793475
_____
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mailstorage/*http:/mail.yahoo.c
om/>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Digital Sectionals & Terminals |
I just received and set of digital sectional charts (tif format with
world file imbedded) and am willing to upload the ones that you are
interested in to mykitplane.com. Let me know which ones (please don't
say all - I don't want to take the time to do them all and I don't
want to overextend my welcome on the mykitplane server). These are
current charts. If you don't care about that you can find all of them
at http://aviationtoolbox.org/raw_data/FAA/sectionals/current/
My files will be at http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?
AlbumID=76
Kirk
--------
Kirk Huizenga
Community Expert
kirk.huizenga@moundsviewschools.org
651.482.8203
my views are not necessarily the view of my employer
Message 9
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Hi Jack and everyone else,
Heres why I asked what I did. Right now i own a Magellan GPS315. The bad this
is that I can not find anyone who carries software for this GPS anymore! I don't
even have a serial cable for it! So I was thinking about retiring it and
getting a more advaced one! However the GPSMAP 196 is 800 smackers to much but
nice GPS
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote:
Good for you, Ben, on joining the EAA.
I use a Garmin GPSMap 196 in my Pietenpol. Got me from Raleigh, NC to Brodhead,
Oshkosh and back home via west Tennessee last summer. 2,147 miles of flying.
Put 37 hours on the airplane. GPS is great for getting through the mountains,
because you can deviate from your course to go around a ridge or follow a
valley, and still find your way back on course. Of course it is also useful
for finding favorable winds (on that trip, flying from Oshkosh to Jackson Tennessee,
I managed to do 95 knots groundspeed most of the way. Amazing what a 30
knot tailwind can do for you!).
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
Hello,
Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was wondering
if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was looking at the Lowarence
AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I would like to announce
that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
EAA # 793475
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 10
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Ben, while I was building my Pietenpol I owned a 1947 Cessna 140 that I
flew all over North Carolina with a $99 Magellan GPS that I bought at
Wal-Mart, made for hikers. It worked fine - just didn't have all the
bells and whistels of the Garmin. If you just input lat and long from a
sectional, such a GPS will take you wherever you want to go.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
Hi Jack and everyone else,
Heres why I asked what I did. Right now i own a Magellan GPS315. The
bad this is that I can not find anyone who carries software for this GPS
anymore! I don't even have a serial cable for it! So I was thinking
about retiring it and getting a more advaced one! However the GPSMAP 196
is 800 smackers to much but nice GPS
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote:
Good for you, Ben, on joining the EAA.
I use a Garmin GPSMap 196 in my Pietenpol. Got me from Raleigh,
NC to Brodhead, Oshkosh and back home via west Tennessee last summer.
2,147 miles of flying. Put 37 hours on the airplane. GPS is great for
getting through the mountains, because you can deviate from your course
to go around a ridge or follow a valley, and still find your way back on
course. Of course it is also useful for finding favorable winds (on
that trip, flying from Oshkosh to Jackson Tennessee, I managed to do 95
knots groundspeed most of the way. Amazing what a 30 knot tailwind can
do for you!).
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager , Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:59 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
Hello,
Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights
I was wondering if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was
looking at the Lowarence AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I
would like to announce that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
EAA # 793475
=09
_____
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mailstorage/*http:/mail.yahoo.c
om/>
_____
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mailstorage/*http:/mail.yahoo.c
om/>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Nav questions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Ben,
I use a simple handheld Garmin eTtrex Vista cost less than $ 300.--
Has Compass, Altimeter and all the basic GPS stuff.
Plots your track both vertical and on map.
I have it on during my test flights, afterwards I can review the flight and
write down the climb rates and descent rates.
If it had engine recording and voice recorder it would be a true black box.
The eTrex is not for aviation use, but has everything I need.
Hans
Ben Ramler
<ben_ramler2002@y
ahoo.com> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
01/26/2006 10:59
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Hello,
Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was
wondering if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was looking
at the Lowarence AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I would like
to announce that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
EAA # 793475
Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Ben,
I use an Airmap 500, mounted on the cabane with the RAM mount that came
with the
GPS. It works great, and was great when I was learning to fly the
plane across
800 miles unfamiliar territory.
Here is a picture of the GPS, climbing out of Siloam Springs, AR, last
April. Note the groundspeed, 25.9MPH, at cruise RPM (2,350RPM, A-75).
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/DSC01413.jpg
Had a slight headwind that day. It was day three of owning my plane, and I
still had the GPS strapped to my leg. Definitely don't get anything bigger
than an AirMap 500, it won't fit in the cockpit. I don't know what I'd
do with
an Airmap 1000 in there.
Steve Ruse
N6383J - Norman, OK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
> Ramler
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:59 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
> Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was
> wondering if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was
> looking at the Lowarence AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I
> would like to announce that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ben Ramler
>
> EAA # 793475
>
> _____
>
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mailstorage/*http:/mail.yahoo.c
> om/>
>
>
Message 13
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After checking out several planes/plans and sizing up the pros and cons of
each, I've decided to get started on the Pietenpol. Notice I didn't say I
was building one, as that's huge task and anybody can talk about it, but I
feel the proof is in the pudding. Once it starts to look like an airplane
and I've convinced myself I'll finish it, then I'll claim the builder
title. So many people start projects they never finish and I don't wanna
take anything away from the persistent souls who actually do.
I've got the rib materials and some 4130 strips on order. That oughta keep
me busy for awhile with a minimum investment, while I get the wife primed to
accept the full blown airplane idea. And if the project falls flat, figure
I can sell a quality set of Piet ribs and a few fittings and at least
recoup materials cost.
Plan to attend Brodhead and hope to beg, borrow, or steal a ride in a Model
A Piet, as that's the version I plan to "dabble" in. :-)
Message 14
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| Subject: | piet for sale again |
Greetings All,
It's been a while since I have posted, although I still love reading the posts
all of you
put in here. Last year, because of my health, I decided to try to sell my piet
project.
I put it on Ebay and got a buyer but he backed out after the auction was over.
This left me mixed feelings, great I still have it and POed because he blew others
off that
were bidding also. Anyway, I have decided again that as much as I want to finish
it and
fly it, I'm not physically capable anymore of doing that. So, I have decided to
ask in here
first if anyone is looking for a project that needs work,( been in the hanger for
two years now)
and looking rough, but it has a good corvair on it with prop, all instruments,
horrible paint job,
but has great potential to give someone a great finishing project and years of
fun flying.
I will have to dig out some pics of it, but some old pics of when I was building
it can be found
here, http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage1.html
I am asking 3500$ for it. The buyer will have to go and pull the wings and trailer
it home.
I would rather see it bought here than on ebay so I will wait a while before going
that route.
It is currently hangered at Betz airfield, Blissfield Michigan... about 30miles
nw of Toledo, OH.
Take care all
Carl Loar
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rob Riggen <rob@riggen.org>
Check out http://www.expercraft.com
It's a great (and free) site for keeping track of your progress as you
build. Time and expenses can be tracked.
It creates and hosts a Web site automatically, too!
Happy building!
Rob
On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 14:07 -0600, Scott S. wrote:
> After checking out several planes/plans and sizing up the pros and
> cons of each, I've decided to get started on the Pietenpol. Notice I
> didn't say I was building one, as that's huge task and anybody can
> talk about it, but I feel the proof is in the pudding. Once it starts
> to look like an airplane and I've convinced myself I'll finish it,
> then I'll claim the builder title. So many people start projects they
> never finish and I don't wanna take anything away from the persistent
> souls who actually do.
>
> I've got the rib materials and some 4130 strips on order. That oughta
> keep me busy for awhile with a minimum investment, while I get the
> wife primed to accept the full blown airplane idea. And if the
> project falls flat, figure I can sell a quality set of Piet ribs and a
> few fittings and at least recoup materials cost.
>
> Plan to attend Brodhead and hope to beg, borrow, or steal a ride in a
> Model A Piet, as that's the version I plan to "dabble" in. :-)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Welcome, Scott ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Congratulations on deciding to get into a Pietenpol project. Nothing says
you have to finish it but no matter how
far you go it is a great learning experience in homebuilding---a far richer
experience and depth-of-knowledge curve than
most kit builders experience I think.
Are you a pilot ? I'm always amazed at some builders who start building
without at least a student pilot license or
more--but there is that section of Piet enthusiast out there. Then again
some just like building without being concerned
if they ever actually fly the creation or solo in anything for that matter.
Whatever the ranks you are from, this list is a very good resource for
encouragement, tips, hearing more than one way
to approach and solve a particular building or decision making issue that
you might face.
Build light, climb better !
And lastly, the group is tired of me plugging the homebuilding book series
available thru EAA by Tony Bingelis, but
that was the best 80 bucks I ever spent during the entire construction of
my airplane.
There are lots of people things have heard that are not true but they
continue to repeat them...old wives tales
they call them, or there might be six different ways to fasten a fitting to
a hunk of wood, but some will claim
only one true way....don't listen to everything you read or hear--check
with the Book of Bingelis for the real deal !
http://shop.eaa.org/html/04_books_bingelis.html?cart_id
Mike C.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Welcome, Scott ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Mike speaks truth, Scott. The Bingelis books are the BIBLE for
scratchbuilding. Besides, they are interesting and fun to read.
It is good that you are wary of bragging about building a plane when you
haven't even started yet. Only about 10% to 25% of started projects
ever fly. I'm always leery of new builders who talk about how they are
going to paint their ships before they make their first pile of sawdust.
Just don't let yourself get overwhelmed with it - rather than looking at
the enormity of the project, break it up into a series of small
projects, like building a rib jig, then making a rib, then making 29
more ribs.
Try to do a little bit (even if it is just looking at the plans and
planning what you will do next) every day and the project will go
faster, and smoother. Every time you stop for a few weeks it is hard to
get started again, and you will forget where you are in the process and
end up doing some things over.
The other thing is to not get frustrated when you screw up a part. Just
make it over and remember that a large part of doing a project like this
is education. I'm sure I could build anopther Pietenpol in half the
time and about 2/3 the cost of the one I built, just becasue I learned
how to do things on the first one. I've got a large cardboard box full
of scrap parts that I made, then discarded. If you are not satisfied
with a part, make it over rather than worry if that part will hold
together when flying in rough air.
Lastly, enjoy the project. I enjoyed building mine, and now I'm
thinking of building another airplane just because I enjoy having an
airplane project in my basement.
Have fun and good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welcome, Scott !
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Congratulations on deciding to get into a Pietenpol project. Nothing
says
you have to finish it but no matter how
far you go it is a great learning experience in homebuilding---a far
richer
experience and depth-of-knowledge curve than
most kit builders experience I think.
Are you a pilot ? I'm always amazed at some builders who start
building
without at least a student pilot license or
more--but there is that section of Piet enthusiast out there. Then
again
some just like building without being concerned
if they ever actually fly the creation or solo in anything for that
matter.
Whatever the ranks you are from, this list is a very good resource for
encouragement, tips, hearing more than one way
to approach and solve a particular building or decision making issue
that
you might face.
Build light, climb better !
And lastly, the group is tired of me plugging the homebuilding book
series
available thru EAA by Tony Bingelis, but
that was the best 80 bucks I ever spent during the entire construction
of
my airplane.
There are lots of people things have heard that are not true but they
continue to repeat them...old wives tales
they call them, or there might be six different ways to fasten a fitting
to
a hunk of wood, but some will claim
only one true way....don't listen to everything you read or hear--check
with the Book of Bingelis for the real deal !
http://shop.eaa.org/html/04_books_bingelis.html?cart_id
Mike C.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Welcome, Scott ! |
I'm still trying to get a good handle on how the plane is put together, what
fittings go where, etc. Once I can get my nose outta the plans, I'll check
out the Bingelis books. Fortunately, found one at the local library
already.
I've built enough stuff to know saying it is one thing; following through is
another. Built a nice set of Mini-Max wings about 10 yrs ago (sold them)
but never could keep much interest because it's only a single-seater,
although I really like the plane. The Piet satisfies the need for extra
seat, plus I LOVE the nostalgia aspect. That's one thing that kept me
coming back to the Piet.
Last flew in '93, got instrument rating in grad school and decided I didn't
like that kinda flying. Too procedural, not enough stick and rudder, low
and slow, fair weather stuff. Got involved in other interests, then
realized about a year ago that if I was ever gonna build a plane I'd best
get started.
If I'm lucky enough to live the standard 77.8 years, that gives me 10 years
to build the Piet then another 10-15 to fly it before getting a med
certificate might be kinda tough. Not that you can predict that sorta thing
of course, ya just gotta plan as best ya can. ;-)
On 1/26/06, Phillips, Jack <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <
> Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> Mike speaks truth, Scott. The Bingelis books are the BIBLE for
> scratchbuilding. Besides, they are interesting and fun to read.
>
> It is good that you are wary of bragging about building a plane when you
> haven't even started yet. Only about 10% to 25% of started projects
> ever fly. I'm always leery of new builders who talk about how they are
> going to paint their ships before they make their first pile of sawdust.
> Just don't let yourself get overwhelmed with it - rather than looking at
> the enormity of the project, break it up into a series of small
> projects, like building a rib jig, then making a rib, then making 29
> more ribs.
>
> Try to do a little bit (even if it is just looking at the plans and
> planning what you will do next) every day and the project will go
> faster, and smoother. Every time you stop for a few weeks it is hard to
> get started again, and you will forget where you are in the process and
> end up doing some things over.
>
> The other thing is to not get frustrated when you screw up a part. Just
> make it over and remember that a large part of doing a project like this
> is education. I'm sure I could build anopther Pietenpol in half the
> time and about 2/3 the cost of the one I built, just becasue I learned
> how to do things on the first one. I've got a large cardboard box full
> of scrap parts that I made, then discarded. If you are not satisfied
> with a part, make it over rather than worry if that part will hold
> together when flying in rough air.
>
> Lastly, enjoy the project. I enjoyed building mine, and now I'm
> thinking of building another airplane just because I enjoy having an
> airplane project in my basement.
>
> Have fun and good luck!
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> D Cuy
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:51 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welcome, Scott !
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Congratulations on deciding to get into a Pietenpol project. Nothing
> says
> you have to finish it but no matter how
> far you go it is a great learning experience in homebuilding---a far
> richer
> experience and depth-of-knowledge curve than
> most kit builders experience I think.
>
> Are you a pilot ? I'm always amazed at some builders who start
> building
> without at least a student pilot license or
> more--but there is that section of Piet enthusiast out there. Then
> again
> some just like building without being concerned
> if they ever actually fly the creation or solo in anything for that
> matter.
>
> Whatever the ranks you are from, this list is a very good resource for
> encouragement, tips, hearing more than one way
> to approach and solve a particular building or decision making issue
> that
> you might face.
>
> Build light, climb better !
>
> And lastly, the group is tired of me plugging the homebuilding book
> series
> available thru EAA by Tony Bingelis, but
> that was the best 80 bucks I ever spent during the entire construction
> of
> my airplane.
>
> There are lots of people things have heard that are not true but they
> continue to repeat them...old wives tales
> they call them, or there might be six different ways to fasten a fitting
> to
> a hunk of wood, but some will claim
> only one true way....don't listen to everything you read or hear--check
> with the Book of Bingelis for the real deal !
>
> http://shop.eaa.org/html/04_books_bingelis.html?cart_id=3D
>
> Mike C.
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
Message 19
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Steve one other question for you. What did your GPS come with?
Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: Steve Ruse
Ben,
I use an Airmap 500, mounted on the cabane with the RAM mount that came
with the
GPS. It works great, and was great when I was learning to fly the
plane across
800 miles unfamiliar territory.
Here is a picture of the GPS, climbing out of Siloam Springs, AR, last
April. Note the groundspeed, 25.9MPH, at cruise RPM (2,350RPM, A-75).
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/DSC01413.jpg
Had a slight headwind that day. It was day three of owning my plane, and I
still had the GPS strapped to my leg. Definitely don't get anything bigger
than an AirMap 500, it won't fit in the cockpit. I don't know what I'd
do with
an Airmap 1000 in there.
Steve Ruse
N6383J - Norman, OK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
> Ramler
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:59 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
> Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was
> wondering if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was
> looking at the Lowarence AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I
> would like to announce that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ben Ramler
>
> EAA # 793475
>
> _____
>
> > om/>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Welcome, Scott ! |
In a message dated 1/26/2006 2:52:22 PM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes:
And lastly, the group is tired of me plugging the homebuilding book series
available thru EAA by Tony Bingelis, but
that was the best 80 bucks I ever spent during the entire construction of
my airplane.
And don't forget the AC 43-13, also available thru the EAA.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 21
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Cc: "Scott S." <covertspecialops@gmail.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
Hi,
I decided to start mine in November and in the past couple of weeks a few more
people have taken the plunge. I have to say, I have never had a project consume
me the way this one has. I carry it around with me in my head everywhere I
go and I haven't stopped thinking about it since the first inclination back in
August. My wife has finally accepted this project as part of our lives (and
the house).
I compare it to rockclimbing where looking at the rest of the work is like looking
down. I'm just going focus on finishing one thing at a time. My wing wood
will be here Monday so this weekend will be partially devoted to completing
the rib jig.
The people in this group have really made this project seem possible. They are
very encouraging and have an incredible depth of expertise on all topics. Hope
you have as much fun as I'm having.
Welcome,
Glenn
---- "Scott S." <covertspecialops@gmail.com> wrote:
> After checking out several planes/plans and sizing up the pros and cons of
> each, I've decided to get started on the Pietenpol. Notice I didn't say I
> was building one, as that's huge task and anybody can talk about it, but I
> feel the proof is in the pudding. Once it starts to look like an airplane
> and I've convinced myself I'll finish it, then I'll claim the builder
> title. So many people start projects they never finish and I don't wanna
> take anything away from the persistent souls who actually do.
>
> I've got the rib materials and some 4130 strips on order. That oughta keep
> me busy for awhile with a minimum investment, while I get the wife primed to
> accept the full blown airplane idea. And if the project falls flat, figure
> I can sell a quality set of Piet ribs and a few fittings and at least
> recoup materials cost.
>
> Plan to attend Brodhead and hope to beg, borrow, or steal a ride in a Model
> A Piet, as that's the version I plan to "dabble" in. :-)
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Static Load Testing |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5@adelphia.net>
Thanks for the response Hans
As far as the elliptical lift distribution is concerned, here is how I
understand it. From "The Illustrated Guide to Aerodynamics" comes the
following explanation. If a wing had infinite length, then the lift at each
station spanwise would be the same. But because we have finite length
wings, we have the effect of vortices. Vortices are strongest at the tips
where some of the high pressure air under the wing flows around the wing tip
to the upper surface. This gradually reduces the lift as you move spanwise
toward the tips. The resulting distribution is an elliptical pattern, with
more lift produced at the inboard stations relative to the outer stations.
This is consistent with other aerodynamic books that I have looked at. Do
you have contrary documentation? Are there any other aerodynamic type guys
listening that can help solve this riddle?
Thanks
Malcolm
http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Nav questions |
Ben
I have an old GPS II. It gives me the basic functions. I was having some reception
problems but solved it by removing the antenna and attaching a 5 ft. extension
and mounting the antenna to the top of the wing.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nav questions
Hello,
Seeing how that the Pietenpo Aircamper is really for VFR flights I was wondering
if anybody uses a GPS? If so what kind are using? I was looking at the Lowarence
AirMap 500, Airmap 1000, and a garmin V. Also I would like to announce
that I'm a EAA member as of yesterday.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
EAA # 793475
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Welcome, Scott ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
Hi Mike,
I'm building for the Corvair motor and I'm using William Wynne's manual and information
to build my motor. I was wondering if the 2 Bingelis books Firewall
Forward, and Engines are something I can get by without. After reading your last
reference to the importance of these books I'm going to go ahead and get them
but wondered if I could get by with just Sportplane Builder and Sportplane
Construction. Continental guys probably frown on Corvairs but, for me, the price
is right.
Also, do you still have the building and flying video? The last thing I looked
at before I finally came down off the fence and decided to start building was
a picture of your plane on AVWeb in Matt Paxton's article. ...now the process
is underway! I never would have thought I'd run into the builder of that plane.
If you still have them I'd love to get one.
Thanks,
Glenn Thomas
http://www.flyingwood.com
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7149#7149
Message 25
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
All,
I purchased a Luscombe 8A that has a good running C85-12
engine. The Luscombe was originally certified with an A-65 and
requires a more complicated fuel system to "feed" the C85.
I'd like to get the Luscombe back to original condition. As such,
I'd like to trade the C85-12 (all accesorries, but no prop) for
a decent, mid-time A65 with wooden prop. The C85 has 440 hrs
STOH and 1012 SMOH. It came off an Ercoupe and has the log
books.
Email me if you have an A65 you might like to trade and I'll have
emailable pictures late this weekend.
Thanks in advance,
Dan Sherburn
Spring Lake, MI
dsherburn@charter.net
Message 26
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| Subject: | Piet needed for photo project |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
Hi all. Im in the Pittsburgh area and am looking at a project involving a
Piet. Im a photographer that is looking for someone that would be willing
to allow an image of their Piet for items like a coffee cups, sweat shirts
and the like as well as a fine art type print. If its something you are
interested in drop me a note off list Thanks Mark
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Static Load Testing |
Malcolm,
I stand corrected, yes I did forget about those tip vortexes.
Must be that winglet Pietenpol wing I was thinking about.
Hans
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Rat clarification (ate my glue follow up...) |
Sterling
No need to appoligize for speaking the truth.
I am a true People Eating Tasty Animals member.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sterling
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rat clarification (ate my glue follow up...)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I don't raise rats for a living (as my earlier post seemed to suggest) they are
a bi-product of living on a farm that has grain crops.
For the PETA people who might be reading this -- sorry, but rats are rodents
and rodents are targets on this farm.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Nav questions |
In a message dated 1/26/2006 6:29:49 PM Central Standard Time,
horzpool@goldengate.net writes:
attaching a 5 ft. extension and mounting the antenna to the top of the wing.
That's the only location that I can get unobstructed reception. I have an
old Magellon SkyBlazer, that I can't get updates for, but works just fine. It
even saved my bacon a couple of times.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Rat clarification (ate my glue follow up...) |
me too sterling i have 150 rabbits tom
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